My favourite central defender at United. He will become a legend.
4
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 24
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 3
For ever man
He's mediocre. Big heart yes I'll give him that. Not good enough for where this team is going. Severley limited skillset and an almstt complete absence of composure.
I'm predicting that there will be no Jones and no Rafael and no Evans here this time next year. I've a sneaky feeling Smalling might make it but wouldn't be surprised if they're all out the door.
I think sometimes we underestimate the exact scale of the rebuild LVG is going to undertake here. We've put up with poor performances from average players for so long that a run of 3 games from Jones, against really ordinary opposition, where he hasn't has one of his usual calamities has him suddenly being championed as as good as the likes of Hummels.
He is nowhere near good enough, nowhere near, to stake a place in the heart of a defence that is going to win the EPl and the CL and thats the goal here.
I would agree with you he is a bit over rated. He has started this season quite well which is a good sign as I disagree that he is nto good enough for where the team is going. The player that broke through at Blackburn was a superb youngster and he is definately good enough for me to become a top defender for the club, if perhaps for me not world class.
He has been very mediocre for us though so far you are correct. Whether that is due to not having so many opportunities early on with experienced defenders ahead of him at first, beign shunted around in different positions or what I dont know but I think he has enough good qualities to his game to be the new Vidic in a defensive partnership with a Rio liek partner. And that is for me the problem with our current defenders, wwe dont have a Rio like defender (Im saying this irrespective of now being a back three). Our weakness in defense is we have nobody that can read the game well and play the ball out from the back and cover the spaces (which is really important in a back three). Id like ro see JOnes on the right of a back three and if Rojo does well on the left then that space to be filled at centre back would be the one area to be fought out. All our centre back options were young signings or promotions to the team, and none of them have really progressed or met the require standards and this is a big season for them with the experienced exits we have had from the club. Personally though I think Jones is the one player ahead of Smalling who has the chance of being one of the names on our first eleven team sheet in 4 years time for example. I think you are under rating him a little bit, just as many over rate him a bit.
Rafaek is the interesting one for me, such a promising but naive defender when he started at the club. In Fergies last season IO thougth Rafael was the most improved player at the club, really started to look at top class right back.....yet last season it seemed like he had amnesia and went right back to the over eager and naive defender he was before that year. I hope LVG with his tactical nouse can get Rafael to progress again and he may be a top defender, otherwise I agree he will be gone quite soon, as for Evans and Smalling, I see them both as squad players so to be honest you could be right there also
At the same age Phil Jones is now, Gary Cahill was being loaned out from Villa to Sheffield United.
But yeah, Jones will never be good enough for a team with aspirations of winning the league
But yeah, Jones will never be good enough for a team with aspirations of winning the league
At the same age Phil Jones is now, Gary Cahill was being loaned out from Villa to Sheffield United.
But yeah, Jones will never be good enough for a team with aspirations of winning the league
Pogue, Jones and Smalling have suffered in the opinions of fans by being played out of position. These pair will benefit from this but now is the time for both to play centre back consistently. I watched Smalling be outstanding (against Bayern I think it was) in Europe. He has a lot to offer as has Jones and it would not surprise me if these two end up being defensive rocks for United and they will also benefit greatly from a proper midfield in front of them.
The cliche is that they're "victims of their own versatility" but they're mainly victims of us lacking a reliable right back (in terms of not getting injured and trusted by his managers against any opposition)
I'd agree with that, I'd have loved to see Coleman fight it out with Rafael here and never seeing Smalling Jones Fletcher Valencia at right back again ever! That's one thing I was delighted with LVG when our first choice players have been injured he's put reserves in. Instead of putting the likes of Carrick at centre back etc etc
At the same age Phil Jones is now, Gary Cahill was being loaned out from Villa to Sheffield United.
But yeah, Jones will never be good enough for a team with aspirations of winning the league
Means nothing. Different players develop differently. And comparisons with Cahill don't work for me as I think he's not top drawer either.
Jones is hugely overrated by the likes of yourself but I think some of this is collateral damage from expectations being gradually lowered at this club to the point where mediocrity gets well and truely established. That and wishful red tinted thinking. We are where we are because of mediocre players and our problems remain defensive ones. LVG knows it, has stated we are in the market for defenders (plural) and I reckon that spells P45s for Jones, Rafael and Evans between now and the start of next season. I'd be delighted to be proved wrong and that many of our problems will be solved by certain players getting extended runs in favoured positions, benefitting from improved coaching and an improvement in the quality of player higher up the pitch but I don't think we'll be getting back to the top with them on board.
Jones isnt mediocre, he has lots of potential and is still young, if he stays injury free and gets a good run he will be a top performer. I bet you were one of the many who was very optimistic about the 2 huge defensive talents, Varane/Jones. After a bad season and he is all of a sudden mediocre? There are mediocre players at the club, Young, Valencia, Evans, Fletcher, Ando but certainly not Jones.
You really think we'll sell our only right back? And replace him with who, really..? Name one suitable replacement out there who's better than him. You can't.
Jones, Smalling and Evans are all excellent. Problem is injuries...and Jones being played all over.
Evans is your perfect ball playing CB....but the poor lad gets injured so often.
The pity is not all 3 when fit can play as CBs. But they are all top players.
Now that we have Rojos, we should be have sufficient cover in that area.
Evans is your perfect ball playing CB....but the poor lad gets injured so often.
The pity is not all 3 when fit can play as CBs. But they are all top players.
Now that we have Rojos, we should be have sufficient cover in that area.
Different players develop differently but you're dead certain Jones is 100% bang average and has no chance of making it despite being the only one of the back 3/5 we've used this season who has looked decent.
This last ditch tackle and passion nonsense is doing my head in too. Vidic built his reputation here on that, with the only difference being he'd had a full career at CB and once he settled in at United and got to play with a fellow experienced player in Rio Ferdinand he was able to stamp his authority and become a real leader.
One thing that Jones has clearly really improved on is his aerial ability and his general reading of the game. If people can't see that then they're just sticking to opinions generated from the shit time he and everyone else had last season.
What people have concluded so far this season: van Persie is finished. Mata flattered to deceive at Chelsea. Carrick won't play much and Phil Jones isn't good because of some old outdated tag that he only looks decent because he's 'passionate' and makes mad last ditch tackles.
Evans perfect ball playing CB? Have you watched him recently? And I rather have a defender who can actually defend, Evans cant. He is just poor.
think he has been rushed back. He was excellent when he played last season.
I certainly wasn't. It's not all of a sudden either...he's always been mediocre.
Are you seriously suggesting that there are not better right backs than Rafael or are we losing something in translation here?
IMO not, its the typical overrating of our youth academy, Welbeck is now some top class striker with the talent of Sturridge, Evans in form is world class according to some and Clev could be a good squad player while he is bang average. Evans is just an average defender, he has decent passing, but further than that he has nothing. Not the level we need at United, I am also sick and tired of his brainfarts, which he has literally every match although he is 27.
He's looked half decent in piss poor performances against average opposition.
I'll give you that he's getting better in the air. Anything at low altitude though and he's a mistake waiting to happen. I said in the old PJ thread he wouldn't make the end of the season a United player and I'm sticking to it. As for tyour other points I think RVP is far from finished, Mata is quality but Carrick is past his sell by date too and won't get past his contract expiry with us.
He's had the advantage of playing alongside Rio or Vida for the entirety of his career though. Now mom and dad are gone and Jonny is the elder brother at United. Always thought Evans would wilt under pressure and is not a leader (even down in the newbies - where I got butchered for suggesting that he quite regularly blames De Gea, Rafael or other easy targets when we concede - the body language isn't healthy for someone a lot of people touted as the team captain) and so far he's proving me right. That said I 'd rather be proven 100 % wrong and Evans steps up for the sake of both United and his own career.
Well we'd most likely have been embarrassed badly against Burnley if he wasn't cleaning up for Jonny Evans all afternoon!
I asked you to name a better right back than him who we'd be able to get.
Evans is useless and it has nothing to do with injuries. He looked decent before but that was when he had Rio or Vidic to bail him out. Now that they are gone he is getting found out for the poor player he is. He's a mistake waiting to happen these days.
Coleman. I'd even take someone like Clyne over Rafael as at least he isn't made of glass.
So, one good season that doesn't even top Rafael's best season and you want to replace him? Says a lot when you can only think of two names, one of which is a shit player that you only mentioned because he plays a lot of games. Selling our only right back is a stupid idea, and I'm surprised you even thought otherwise.
They're two just from this league, I'm sure someone more knowledgeable about other European leagues than me could name you a lot more too. It's not only one good season for Coleman either, he has been very good since been moved to RB by Moyes and Coleman last season was better than Rafael two seasons ago, IMO. Personally I wouldn't sell Rafael anyway as he is good when fit but I do think we should get in someone else as he isn't fit often enough.
I do think we need another RB that isn't Valencia lol, but to sell Rafael would be foolish as he's very, very talented. I think we could do with another Buttner type player (Price range/age etc) just to add some competition for that spot, we don't want to force him out completely else we could come to regret it.
Coleman was much better last season than Rafael in 2012 and I'm a huge fan of Rafael. Last season Coleman was the top scoring defender in the league and chipped in with plenty of assists too. He was also voted the best RB in the league (something Rafael wasn't in 2012). It's also incorrect to say it was Coleman's first "good" season as it was actually an excellent season and he has been one of the best RB's in the league for the last few years.
Edit: SS beat me too it.
"Sometimes you look in a field and you see a cow and you think it's a better cow than the one you've got in your own field," Ferguson told reporters after the game. "It's a fact. Right? And it never really works out that way."
Typical attitude of most of our fans, our own players are always under-rated whilst opposition players are over-rated. Rafael is great, selling him would be criminal. Especially to replace him with an Everton player people only recognise after last year.
It's hardly a typical attitude from our fans? That's complete and utter rubbish. What do you want fans to say? That we have the best 11 players in the world? Are opposition players not allowed to be considered better? Based on the last two seasons Coleman has been better. Simple as.
As I said earlier I'm a huge fan of Rafael and he is one of my favourite at the club. That doesn't mean that I can't say that there is a better RB than him in the league.
Id often take the opposite opinion personally that we look at a lot of our players with rose tinted glassed. I dont agree with Barca abotu Jones even though I dont think he has good as a lot of people in this thread for example seem to think but where I totally agree with him and it has been obvious to see for a while is we have had too many mediocre and under performing players for the club the last 3/4 years, we seem to have a squad with basically a lot of "squad" players in it and very few first eleven players..hence the summers activity. If you look at our transfer history inwards and outwards I would actually say it has been very poor for a long period of time. We arent in this mess purely because of Moyes. Ferguson made a lot of wonderful signings for the club but I dont think he has had a good window for seberal years and with the majority of our best players retiring or moving on and a fair few of our big signings not progressing, it all caught up with us last year when we had a manager who didn thave amazing man management skills, you only have to look at the season before it when we won the league, the attitude of the team and the magic of RVPs debut season won us the league, in reality the general standard, tempo and quality of the side and the players was piss poor.
The likes of Welbeck, Young, Mata, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Valencia, Cleverly, Anderson, Nani are all good squad players but how many of them are first eleven players who would get anywhere near the 3 great sides Fergie built? It is subjective but Barca is right when he said we have a lot of mediocre players, I would suggest this summers activity has is because this is exactly what Van Gaal thinks, and I think it is only half of the job he wants to do rebuilding transfer wise, I fully expect several other big ins and outs in the summer even if I dont totally agree with Barca on some of the players he names
Mata is an odd choice for that list.
Based on rumors and early impressions you'd have to say a first-rate CB will be top of our shopping list. And though it may be a bit unfair to him being young without a long run in that position, it may be a make or break year for Jones to establish himself before that big name signs for us. Especially if like many suspect we revert to 4 at the back and Rojo kicks on at left CB.
Hope his injury isn't too serious. Looks likely to miss QPR now atleast.
Was pretty good today again and hitting very good form and now this.
Was pretty good today again and hitting very good form and now this.
Of course he goes off injured!
Substituted in the England game with a hamstring injury. Frustrating. You'd imagine he'll now face a spell on the sidelines.
The pre-season fears about the fitness records of the senior centre halves have proved founded then. All three have picked up injuries within the first month of the season.
The pre-season fears about the fitness records of the senior centre halves have proved founded then. All three have picked up injuries within the first month of the season.
Well typical. Has a good run of games and then gets injured.
We really need a partnership at the back rather than chopping and changing. Our injury prone defenders don't allow us to build a partnership.
We really need a partnership at the back rather than chopping and changing. Our injury prone defenders don't allow us to build a partnership.
I'm honestly losing faith in him becoming anything above average. He's always getting injured.
May have been just cramp. He seemed to be stretching it.
Oh he's injured. There's a massive surprise.
The fact that he played on for 5-10 minutes after he picked up the injury makes me hopeful he could be be available on Sunday. Would be a huge loss as he is our only form defender at the minute.
Yeah. Loads of potential and a very good defender at his best but he can't fulfill his potential or be part of a solid defensive partnership if he always gets injured. The main thing with center backs is being fit and forming an understanding, and he just can't get that as he's always injured, so frustrating.
He stays most fit usually of our 3 main defenders.
All are too injury prone though.
That's not really high praise though is it, considering the others are constantly injured. I would have no worries about our current defence both in quality and depth if they never got injured, or rarely did. The problem is that you actually can't expect them to stay fit for more then a handful of games at one time.