4
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 24
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 3
Can Varane play in midfield or at RB because that is where he would have played if he joined when Vidic and Ferdinand were still here.
He's always trying to play at 100% of his speed, always in a rush. I think thats another reason why Smalling has struggled with his passing in the past (he's doing better now) because he's trying to run at full speed into space and that makes it harder to be accurate. Jones right now is the opposite of a composed CB
Phil Jones is one of the players that highlights the problems that bothe Moyes and LVG face. Over rated and limited. Bought for big money, England international but never really been consistently good.
Looks a flapper, looks like he is always trying too hard to impress and that makes him look uncomfortable.
His passing is shockingly bad and, whilst his defending is ok, there is nothing else about him as a footballer that makes him any better than a very an average defender.
I very much doubt both managers would play him if there was better available but there isn't.
Add to this list Evans, Smalling, Fellaini, Valencia who are all very average at their roles and we can see the problem.
Looks a flapper, looks like he is always trying too hard to impress and that makes him look uncomfortable.
His passing is shockingly bad and, whilst his defending is ok, there is nothing else about him as a footballer that makes him any better than a very an average defender.
I very much doubt both managers would play him if there was better available but there isn't.
Add to this list Evans, Smalling, Fellaini, Valencia who are all very average at their roles and we can see the problem.
Genuine question, was Duncan Edwards this shit? I mean, this guy plays like he doesn't have a brain cell, Christ!
brilliantIf we had better options, the guy would be shoved out the door.....It was reported in September, in the papers, fanzines etc that LVG doesn't rate him very much.
He's awful
The other problem is we spent massive £££ on some of these players so its harder to let them go knowing we make a massive loss on them, Zaha and Powell are other examples. Anderson too.
The only other point id make is it's chelsea's policy to only judge a player once he reaches 23 so he has a month left til his time is up
The only other point id make is it's chelsea's policy to only judge a player once he reaches 23 so he has a month left til his time is up
The other problem is we spent massive £££ on some of these players so its harder to let them go knowing we make a massive loss on them, Zaha and Powell are other examples. Anderson too.
The only other point id make is it's chelsea's policy to only judge a player once he reaches 23 so he has a month left til his time is up
You're not Falcao....
He was still being heavily defended here by some up until this latest debacle. Anyone left now?
I've heard him called "future captain" many times too, here and on twitter, seriously people?
He was horrible yesterday. But some of the reaction in this thread is way OTT. Reading past few pages makes Jones sound like he's some kind of pub footballer. People forget he was our best defender since the start of the season until he got injured. I still think if he can stay clear of injuries he can cement himself as a first choice CB at United.
Damning with faint praise there.
Not good enough, never was, and the only thing OTT about opinions of Jones is that he was ever spoken of in terms of Dundan Edwards style potential greatness. If he survives until next year it will only be because we sell 2 of our other really very shit centre backs. Dead man walking.
He's an utter clown, who shouldn't be here.
Rio was dodgy for his first season or two here but, he still showed the class that made him into a great defender.
Jones?!.....Said it years ago on here and I'll say it again, he's our version of Scott Parker.
Apart from Froggie, I've never heard anyone compare him to Duncan Edwards.....Granted, it means shag all to me since I never seen Edwards but, I've never heard anyone else say it.....Unless Edwards took a shit corner
Even in his first season goodness, there was that general thickness about him, positionally unaware, prone to giving away silly freekicks in dangerous areas, prone to lunging in [and getting injured in the process]. His problem is not a lack of effort or ability, it's lack of a brain. In simple terms, he's a bit thick.
Can somebody make him smoke a spliff before a game or something, as he always seems like he's just popped an ecstacy pill. Like others have stated he is on full throttle all the time, I wish he could take some of Blacketts relaxed/composed nature, as his natural defending is very good. He does play like he is nervous all game which is a worry really.
Duncan Edwards style potential comment is as OTT as the comments that are made in this thread. Both just at the opposite end of spectrum. I don't know why its given much importance as Fergie had habit of coming out with some weird shit at times like 'Young is a replacement of Giggs' and 'Rvp getting killed'
I still find it unfair that hes still 22, and has had NOBODY to guide him through games past 2 seasons. Vidic was terrible last season, had a long injury another time. He's expected to have the head of a 28 year old martialling the defence for the biggest club in the world whilst being forced to play in a system and style of play hes probably never played in. And people are writing him off.
Id wait at least this season and next before id start to judge him properly. We'll buy hummels in summer, then one season next to him to get used to the partnership and click. Then if he doesnt improve, ill accept his fate then.
Id wait at least this season and next before id start to judge him properly. We'll buy hummels in summer, then one season next to him to get used to the partnership and click. Then if he doesnt improve, ill accept his fate then.
General thickness ? He was 18 when we signed him. Positional awareness and maturity comes with experience and playing games. So to expect such a young player to be positionally perfect and mentally mature is asking way too much or having too much expectation.
I don't disagree with a fact that he hasn't developed as much as most of us expected to because of injuries or being played out of positions but that doesn't make him an awful footballer as its being pointed out in this thread.
I agree with you there, and just want to add - or not being good enough maybe?
Composure, confidence and ability are inextricably linked. If you are lacking in ability I would suggest it's hard to have confidence in your game and as a result you play with a lack of composure. Jones is not blessed with abundant ability and it appears to me he overcompensates for that. If he has a way forward I would suggest its by keeping things simple and simply getting the basics right. There is clearly no point in trying to turn Jones into some Rolls Royce of a ball playing defender - he is almost the antithesis of this and, as such, is going to struggle at the top level because that is what it is all about these days. In summary his days are numbered.
This.
in this day and age, a lack of footballing brain doesn't forgive. He's a lost cause as far as playing for a club that aspires to the top is concerned.
I just don't see him here for much longer. Maybe this summer, maybe next. He's a reactive defender who is genuinely rash (rather than Rafael rash), his on the ball ability is pretty basic, his idea of bring the ball out is a weird kick and chase that usually ends up with him having to tackle someone and he's not improved since the first day he got here. The fact he's masochistic doesn't help either. Flog him to Arsenal and bring in some actual talent.
Not really. Jones joined just as Vidic started getting injury problems.
When he joined us he was in the starting 11. And only reason he didn't displace Vidic and Ferdinand was because the three amigos get injured every two weeks.
That's a very fair description of what he is bringing to the table. I have had this problem with him for a while. The way he keeps hoofing the ball forward as if he is Beckebauer and the way he keeps giving away silly and completely avoidable freekicks in dangerous areas. It's as if he thinks that's how the game should be played.
It's getting past the point where he could be excused for being young or playing out of position too. He doesn't have the basics to become a good defender at this level, I fear.
Reactive part of his game is very good. Proactive part of his game is the reason I don't think he's going to make it here.
Age is on his side though, I think he would do well beside an experienced CB. It's a shame we let them all go with no ready replacement.
IMO his development has been handled extremely bad.
Age is on his side though, I think he would do well beside an experienced CB. It's a shame we let them all go with no ready replacement.
IMO his development has been handled extremely bad.
He was awful yesterday. Poor crosses, giving the ball away and WHAT IS WITH HIM TAKING CORNERS? He should be in the box trying to get his head on the flipping ball.
However I think he is being expected to ball play too much. Vidic was never expected to do this.
However I think he is being expected to ball play too much. Vidic was never expected to do this.
Do people still think he's more "talented" than Smalling?
21 year old Smalling in his first season for us was a much more impressive defender, yet Jones for some reason got all the hype. Future United, England captain while Smalling was performing better on the pitch for us and when they played together for the England U-21s.
21 year old Smalling in his first season for us was a much more impressive defender, yet Jones for some reason got all the hype. Future United, England captain while Smalling was performing better on the pitch for us and when they played together for the England U-21s.
A good defender but limited as soon as the ball is at his feet. Reads game well but can't pass for toffee. He still looks shocked to be playing, like he is relly nervous - how long as he been at the club? If we really are to start playing out from the back then Phil Jones needs to nowhere near the first team.
Just watched a replay of the match and he was poor. Oh, and is there an explanation as to why he takes our corners now? I am truly confused by this.
He is only 22 though, got 10 years at the highest level, i feel there is room for him to develop still. Provided we play him at CB that is.
Surprised he didn't get injured the way he was flinging himself into every challenge with his blood and thunder style in the first half. Thankfully he didn't. Jones and Rojo (who is fast becoming a favourite of mine) are far and away my first choice centre half pairing.
Also the pundits whinging that he should be in the box for our corners... He's never been particularly prolific at scoring from corners, so I'm not too concerned about that it's just that he is a poor corner taker, so no-one else is going to have any chance scoring from them either.
Also the pundits whinging that he should be in the box for our corners... He's never been particularly prolific at scoring from corners, so I'm not too concerned about that it's just that he is a poor corner taker, so no-one else is going to have any chance scoring from them either.
I'd agree if I thought he had developed at all in the last 3 years. But he hasn't, other than developing an uncanny knack of injuring himself or someone else.
He's genuinely brainless. You see some players who lack technical ability and they make up for it in brains. They learn the game, they find the tricks of the trade and then they work within their capabilities.
Jones on the other hand doesn't learn, he goes head first into 50/50s, he charges forward with absolutely no idea what he will do with it with the next touch let alone the final ball and he tries firing 50 yard balls across the park but instead of passing in a way that can be controlled he opts for the knuckle ball approach which sees it fizzing across the pitch in a manner even the great Fellaini couldn't chest down.
He's enthusiastic, he's not talented. He's a physical beast that can time a tackle occasionally. Not what we need going forward.
Yup. You only need to look at where the likes of Cahill or Mertesacker were playing at that age to see how stupid it would be to write him off completely right now. I do wonder if he could do with a stint out on loan though. His learning curve could easily start hindering us.
Yes he does come across as over eager and often looks like a clumsy teenager that hasnt grown into his body yet. I think it would be crazy to let him go though. We signed him very early he should have been loaned out for a few years to learn his trade.
Both of whom have been pretty poor this season. I see your point though, but I think that semi-late burst is more likely to come from Smalling than Jones. I see very little potential in Jones, and I think many are starting to agree.
It was a media myth and always has been. Smalling has always been the better defender and I think that will remain the case from here out. Apparently Jones is better on the ball, too, but he's not. Smalling isn't aesthetically pleasing on the eye but he's a lot more reliable in possession.
I like Jones, or I try to, at least. But last night you just had to laugh. People talk of age and just expect inherent traits like positioning and awareness to improve. They don't, not drastically. He'll not read the game like Rio Ferdinand did whether he is 22 or 32. It's simply not there.
Jones is a class centre half lol. Good in the air, strong, quick, fantastic at getting tight, great at covering in behind, good in 1v1 situations and good at recovering. Defensively he didn't do anything wrong last night, infact he made one brilliant header near the end to put it behind. Gave the ball away a couple of times, one from a dodgy bounce and won the ball back straight away. Apart from that, people are going on about his crossing as if that's what makes centre halves, it baffles me. There's not many 22 year olds that could seemlessly fit into playing on the side of a back 3, he's not as thick as people make out.
Totally agree. He also made a great tackle in the box. He had a good game apart from those careless passes. And in that is the problem. Phil Jones made 80 passes for United last night, only second to Carrick. He is not the player who should be dictating our play, but that seems to be the Van Gaal system. He wasn't help by having a gutless full back in Valencia offering him little effective out ball either.