[freshibal]

Rafael has had a good injury record? Thats your claim?

During Fergie's last year Rafael was available most matches.

 

[SambaBoy]

Be good to see a poll of how many people will think he will make it here or in what capacity. The replacement to Rio/Vidic when he came is becoming less likely. Not once in his time here have people been confident that he will start at the weekend or put a run of games together. Now Rio/Vidic have gone, he does have that chance but he's always getting injured.

IMO, Smalling is the better of the two defenders and something I have always thought. In a static aerial battle, he does lose the majority which is a worry, if he has a run on the striker, then's he fine most of the time but any balls into the six yard box he is going to struggle unless DDG helps him out. His positioning can be a problem as well, as he can get brought into areas that he shouldn't be in.

His main problem is his desire to win the ball. Instead of letting the striker just shield the ball or keep it away from him, he will try win it and clatter into the striker giving away silly fouls or free kicks.

 

[Minimalist]

Even if he was injury free I still don't think he's a centre back to dominate at a European level. The fact he's constantly injured just takes the piss.

I said at the start of the season, I think he's likely to be sold by Van Gaal unless he improves massively and stays injury free but as far as I'm concerned, this season he's been a poor defender, a really dumb footballer generally and if he can't stay fit, then he must be sold.

Him and Smalling to me are genuinely examples of the English vastly overrating their own.

 

[Kakeru]

Him and Smalling to me are genuinely examples of the English vastly overrating their own.

Exactly. This is why I'm against any form of favoritism towards local talent.

If the Englishman can prove he's as good or better than a foreigner on how to play the game intelligently, then he will have his chance and not otherwise. Seriously, if McNair, Blackett and possibly Thorpe can make the jump under Van Gaal while being a lot more intelligent than Jones ever is, then I see no reason for keeping Jones at all.

 

[Loublaze]

Even if he was injury free I still don't think he's a centre back to dominate at a European level. The fact he's constantly injured just takes the piss.

I said at the start of the season, I think he's likely to be sold by Van Gaal unless he improves massively and stays injury free but as far as I'm concerned, this season he's been a poor defender, a really dumb footballer generally and if he can't stay fit, then he must be sold.

Him and Smalling to me are genuinely examples of the English vastly overrating their own.

Smalling is not rated even nearly as high as Jones. The general consensus is that he's a decent defender who lacks a footballing brain.

 

[Walrus]

I think Jones and Smalling complement each other well, much like Rio and Vidic did.

For both, the problem has been injuries and inconsistent gametime at CB. I would like to see Smalling/Jones lining up together for a few games and get them to forge an understanding.

 

[Sarni]

I think Jones and Smalling complement each other well, much like Rio and Vidic did.

For both, the problem has been injuries and inconsistent gametime at CB. I would like to see Smalling/Jones lining up together for a few games and get them to forge an understanding.

We've been saying that for 3 years. There's no chance in hell you could play both of them consistently, they won't get over the injuries to an extent where you could rely on them playing 35-40 games a season together.

 

[Walrus]

We've been saying that for 3 years. There's no chance in hell you could play both of them consistently, they won't get over the injuries to an extent where you could rely on them playing 35-40 games a season together.

You may be right, I do think that being played out of position has hampered both players development regardless of injuries however.

Basically if I was LVG this season I would be playing Smalling/Jones at CB when fit. At the end of the season if we can review it and if they haven't been able to stay fit, look at moving them on and replacing next summer.

 

[Shimo]

Cut our loss with him sooner than later - it may end up being a bad move but, even if we get a player in with maybe a little less potential but, can give us a consistent foundation - that will be so much better than the hope Jones can be available for selection for more than 3-4 games in a row.

We've been too nice for too long to injury prone players, Saha, Hargreaves, Anderson, Owen.

 

[SATA]

Don't shoot the messenger, but apparently he's out for 3 months. Could be bollocks though

 

[TheReligion]

Don't shoot the messenger, but apparently he's out for 3 months. Could be bollocks though

With shin splints?!

 

[Kag]

Even if he was injury free I still don't think he's a centre back to dominate at a European level. The fact he's constantly injured just takes the piss.

I said at the start of the season, I think he's likely to be sold by Van Gaal unless he improves massively and stays injury free but as far as I'm concerned, this season he's been a poor defender, a really dumb footballer generally and if he can't stay fit, then he must be sold.

Him and Smalling to me are genuinely examples of the English vastly overrating their own.

Jones and Smalling were highly rated at young ages and for good reason. They were excelling in a Manchester United team fighting for titles, their nationality has naff all to do with that. What has prevented them from improving on that promise has been a mixture of terrible luck with injury and wank management from Ferguson. They were two of the best centre half prospects in world football then and what has since transpired doesn't change that.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Yeah, people are on auto-pilot in this thread with the reasoning about this latest "injury", though I suppose that's understandable given his track record.

I think it's the first time I've heard a professional footballer being out because of shin splints.

I absolutely hate shin splints.

Andy Cole used to suffer from them in his first few years here, I believe after he came back from his big injury around 96(7)?
not to defend Jones as when I heard he was out after 1 game back wanted to connect my fist with the door, but I suppose they can happen... particuarly after injury layoffs it would appear.

 

[Loublaze]

Andy Cole used to suffer from them in his first few years here, I believe after he came back from his big injury around 96(7)?
not to defend Jones as when I heard he was out after 1 game back wanted to connect my fist with the door, but I suppose they can happen... particuarly after injury layoffs it would appear.

How long do they usually keep players out?

EDIT: He could be out for 2 and a half months give or take. I just read that shin splints can take up to 72 days to fully recover

@SATA your intel is realistic.

 

[Revan]

Jones and Smalling were highly rated at young ages and for good reason. They were excelling in a Manchester United team fighting for titles, their nationality has naff all to do with that. What has prevented them from improving on that promise has been a mixture of terrible luck with injury and wank management from Ferguson. They were two of the best centre half prospects in world football then and what has since transpired doesn't change that.

They weren't much rated outside of United fans. In fact, I never got the Jones hype at all. He gives it all, but that's it so far. Not very intelligient, only average technically and perma-injured. Smalling was fantastic on his first season but since then he has actually regressed. His inability to pass is also disturbing.

Obviously, both can improve, but I am not sure how much we can wait for it. If we want to win the title next season, we should have a good defense, something that I don't feel our center backs can provide.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Don't shoot the messenger, but apparently he's out for 3 months. Could be bollocks though

Source?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How long do they usually keep players out?

EDIT: He could be out for 2 and a half months give or take. I just read that shin splints can take up to 72 days to fully recover

@SATA your intel is realistic.

Up to 72 days = 3 months?

Ok.

 

[Kag]

They weren't much rated outside of United fans. In fact, I never got the Jones hype at all. He gives it all, but that's it so far. Not very intelligient, only average technically and perma-injured. Smalling was fantastic on his first season but since then he has actually regressed. His inability to pass is also disturbing.

Obviously, both can improve, but I am not sure how much we can wait for it. If we want to win the title next season, we should have a good defense, something that I don't feel our center backs can provide.

Any opposition supporter who had watched them at the 2011 European U21 Championship's will have rated them highly. There were two of, if not the best, defenders there. It wasn't hype that urged Ferguson to buy them, it was their talent. Like I said, they were right up there with the cream of their age bracket. What has happened since just doesn't reflect so kindly in hindsight.

 

[royboy16]

Yeah, people are on auto-pilot in this thread with the reasoning about this latest "injury", though I suppose that's understandable given his track record.

I think it's the first time I've heard a professional footballer being out because of shin splints.

I absolutely hate shin splints.

I think Robbie Fowler used get them back in the day during his Liverpool. days.

 

[saivet]

Even if he was injury free I still don't think he's a centre back to dominate at a European level. The fact he's constantly injured just takes the piss.

I said at the start of the season, I think he's likely to be sold by Van Gaal unless he improves massively and stays injury free but as far as I'm concerned, this season he's been a poor defender, a really dumb footballer generally and if he can't stay fit, then he must be sold.

Him and Smalling to me are genuinely examples of the English vastly overrating their own.

I agree on Jones. He seems to be highly rated by quite a lot for presumably his 'lionheart' character. Smalling on the other hand, I don't know many fans of other teams that rate him. I watched the game on Sunday with a Chelsea fan and he was laughing at our defence, saying how shit Smalling is.

 

[Revan]

Any opposition supporter who had watched them at the 2011 European U21 Championship's will have rated them highly. There were two of, if not the best, defenders there. It wasn't hype that urged Ferguson to buy them, it was their talent. Like I said, they were right up there with the cream of their age bracket. What has happened since just doesn't reflect so kindly in hindsight.

Not really. England couldn't even pass the group stage so no idea where does it come that they were the best defenders there.

Anyway, that is a lower level football. On United, Smalling had a single promising season, while Jones a few promising games. Usually on midfield doing the marking job.

 

[Loublaze]

Up to 72 days = 3 months?

Ok.

And? 72 days is 2 and a half months. People usually round off to the next whole number, not the last or one previous. Therefore three months is realistic.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

And? 72 days is 2 and a half months. People usually round off to the next whole number, not the last or one previous. Therefore three months is realistic.

We're splitting hairs here but you're wrong. 72 days is two and one third months. You round a third down, not up. Also the phrase you used was "up to 72 days" which clearly excludes the 90+ plays you get in 3 months.

Doesn't matter though. I'm calling bollox on both the (weirdly exact) "up to 72 days" timeframe for shin splint recovery and this (unsubstantiated) three months that Jones is out for.

 

[Loublaze]

We're splitting hairs here but you're wrong. 72 days is two and one third months. You round a third down, not up. Also the phrase you used was "up to 72 days" which clearly excludes the 90+ plays you get in 3 months.

Doesn't matter though. I'm calling bollox on both the (weirdly exact) "up to 72 days" timeframe for shin splint recovery and this (unsubstantiated) three months that Jones is out for.

I don't know who his sources are, but if they guessed 3 months then they are not far from the truth. The article I read in fact said an average of 72 days, so I was wrong in saying 'up to'. The article was written with professional runners in mind, not footballers, but I expect it to be similar.

Healing time varied widely among the injured runners. Those with calf strains were back to normal running in an average of 30 to 40 days, while those with shin splints needed an average of 72 days to fully recover

http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-...hin-splints-are-most-common-new-runner-injury

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Fair enough. If it's an average, then that would explain the exact 72 days figure.

Don't think that data is transferable though. Big difference between recovery times for professional athletes and Joe Schmoes who've just taken up jogging.

 

[Amir]

I don't think Jones and Smalling are overrated. I'd happily make those deals again for younger versions of both and for the same money. The talent is there, but if you don't progress then you're not going to be good enough.

 

[roykeane19]

The way hes going, it seems he`ll be at best remembered for his myriad of funny faces

 

[ZDwyr]

So is this 3 month thing from a legit source? Or just pure speculation?

 

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

Any opposition supporter who had watched them at the 2011 European U21 Championship's will have rated them highly. There were two of, if not the best, defenders there. It wasn't hype that urged Ferguson to buy them, it was their talent. Like I said, they were right up there with the cream of their age bracket. What has happened since just doesn't reflect so kindly in hindsight.

They were decent at the 2011 Euro's but feck me, talk about hyperbole.

Smalling was excellent against Chelsea, hopefully he's not injured sometime next week in training and actually get's a run of games, Jones I've completely lost my faith in, you just knew it was a matter of time before he got injured again, completely made of glass.

 

[Loublaze]

So is this 3 month thing from a legit source? Or just pure speculation?

There's no concrete info yet.

 

[Roboc7]

Surely it’s time we started giving serious consideration to off loading Jones or view him as a backup utility player, if we are to keep him then probably one of Smalling and Evans needs to go. It’s no longer relevant how good or how much potential these guys have because they just can’t stay fit even when we are only playing once a week and CB is one of the most important areas in terms of being able to play the same players regularly. Chelsea have used 1 combination at CB compared to our 7 so it isn’t really surprising they defend a lot better, the manager to needs to be looking to bring in at least 1 new player there or maybe even 2 because this is costing us points and this problem has been around for a few seasons now.

 

[All 3 United]

When fit he's the best out of the three. I honestly believe if he wasn't as injury prone he would have been one of the first names on our team sheet and a fans favourite. Fact is though if there's any position you can't afford to have an injury prone player its centre half. And we have three of them!

Out of interest what was his injury record like at Blackburn?

 

[Kakeru]

Out of interest what was his injury record like at Blackburn?

He took a torn knee cartilage injury in his first full season at Blackburn (right before he signed at United) and was sidelined for 3 months for that.

 

[Shane88]

He took a torn knee cartilage injury in his first full season at Blackburn (right before he signed at United) and was sidelined for 3 months for that.

We signed Jones after he tore knee cartilage but we wouldn't sign Jordan Henderson because he ran funny.

Makes sense.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We signed Jones after he tore knee cartilage but we wouldn't sign Jordan Henderson because he ran funny.

Makes sense.

Makes no sense to sign players who've recently had a serious knee injury, right?

Ruud, Falcao...

 

[Kakeru]

We signed Jones after he tore knee cartilage but we wouldn't sign Jordan Henderson because he ran funny.

Makes sense.

Almost ridiculous when you think about it. I hope Van Gaal will ship him off when possible; Jones has been a waste of time and money after almost 4 years with such injury record and a total lack of self-awareness during that time. By now, he should be finding ways to play a safer approach in matches as well as in training, but no. That's too much for someone with such a low IQ.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Almost ridiculous when you think about it. I hope Van Gaal will ship him off when possible; Jones has been a waste of time and money after almost 4 years with such injury record and a total lack of self-awareness during that time. By now, he should be finding ways to play a safer and more ergonomic approach in matches as well as in training, but no. That's too much for someone with such a low IQ.

Bit rich to accuse someone of having a low IQ in a post where you use "ergonomic" in that context.

 

[Kakeru]

Anyway, that doesn't take away the fact that it's stupid that Jones has not adopted a safer approach by now for his own career's sake, and regardless of how many injuries he sustained so far. Are players too thick to listen to doctors at times?

Gambling everything like he does, I would not be surprised if he retires by age 27 because of injuries.

 

[JPRouve]

Anyway, that doesn't take away the fact that it's stupid that Jones has not adopted a safer approach by now for his own sake. Are players too thick to listen to doctors at times?

It's not really surprising that a 22 years old centerback is not mature. The question is should we nurture him ? Does he worth it ?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Anyway, that doesn't take away the fact that it's stupid that Jones has not adopted a safer approach by now for his own sake, and regardless of how many injuries he sustained so far. Are players too thick to listen to doctors at times?

I've no idea if the club doctors have been telling him how to play the game or not. I've definitely heard coaches say that you're more likely to get injured in a half-hearted tackle than a committed one though.

I think he has to take some responsibility for his own safety but it's his committed approach to the game that is a big part of what makes him such a prospect. He might find a better balance in time. He's still young.