It's nowhere near other young English attacking midfielders. They aren't as good as he is defensively. They are different players who play a different role. You're comparing apples and oranges.
Swearing is a no no but name calling is fine? Yeah ok.
Phil Jones | 2013/14 Performances
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Swearing is a no no but name calling is fine? Yeah ok.
Just responding in kind :-)
I think most recognise that Jones will end up as a centre-half, he isn't mobile enough and doesn't pass the ball well enough in my opinion.
Unfortunately when we are minus Carrick he is our best midfiled option. Sad state of affairs, really.
Unfortunately when we are minus Carrick he is our best midfiled option. Sad state of affairs, really.
I didn't call you names in fairness, which is quite the departure for me. lolzy
It's weird that despite our game becoming more European over the last 15 years people still have this rigid archetype of what a midfielder is. Pirlo and Gattuso and Kaka were all midfielders in a very successful Milan team, all completely different players with completely different roles. Saying Jones will never make a midfielder because he's not as good on the ball as Wilshere or Barkley is like saying that Zidane couldn't make it in midfield because he couldn't tackle like Makelele (i.e - it's irrelevant)
In my view Zidane didnt need to tackle, whereas Jones needs to do both. Makele could also pass well btw.
I don't get your logic there. So as an AM you expect Zidane to have no defensive ability but as a DM you see Jones having to be a creative passer and a dribbler?
On the second point, I wouldn't argue that Makelele didn't pass well, but I'd say he only did so within the limits dictated by his role. He was very tidy and composed on the ball, but his distribution was about always about decision making and speed of execution in short passes. It would be revisionism to suggest that his passing was particularly creative or dynamic. Also you have to remember that he was about 25 when he started being an influential player in that role for Celta Vigo, 27 when he joined Real Madrid and 28 by the time he was playing that role regularly for France. Jones isn't even 22.
In short yes - zidane could do what he liked in a free role. Jones cant as a defensve mid. I also never said anyhing about dribbling.
Anyway we are getting off topic a bit. I dont think Jones will be a top class midfielder, happy to be proved wrong though. Would rather see him at the back.
Sorry, the pedant in me can't resist. He's 21, nearly 22!
Oops time flies
Either way he's still very young to be re-learning a new position at this level.
He's impressed me quite a bit as CM this season in comparison to previous seasons. He has a lot of energy and drive and his decision making has improved.
He needs someone creative alongside though.
He needs someone creative alongside though.
Did you mean to say that? Implying that when he get's older, it's be normal to then start learning a new position?
NB - You cannot re-learn a NEW position
Needs to grow a cheeky little beard
No way he's doing a better job in midfield than Tunicliffe would. I like his energy and tackling but he's poor on the ball, can't pass it, just plain simply doesn't have the required quality to be a very good midfielder.
He's the kind of player who'll always do a job but as a long term fixture in midfield? I hope not.
I'd prefer not to have a player that limited in cm, even if he is good defensively. Hopefully if we strengthen properly he'll be able to focus on establishing himself as a CB.
I'd prefer not to have a player that limited in cm, even if he is good defensively. Hopefully if we strengthen properly he'll be able to focus on establishing himself as a CB.
Did we not release Tunnicliffe? Unless my mind is playing tricks on me... That said, I don't think Tunnicliffe was United quality despite the early promise. Not starting XI material, at least - and most recognize that Jones is only at CM over CB because of our midfield situation, which Moyes seems desperate to address (thankfully) going by this past summer.
For what it's worth, I think Carrick/Jones is our best combination, with Giggs playing only when we are chasing a game with the opposition pegged back, 11 men behind the ball. Jones has really impressed there & I think until we make a signing, he shouldn't even get a look in at CB simply because we can't afford to not have him in midfield. Once we make a the said signing, he should go back to centre back. That spot is his for the next 10 years if he realizes his potential.
Love seeing Jones in midfield, but ideally with Carrick next to him. Other teams' midfielders will hate being up against Jones in midfield.
Ang whoever said above that Jones is not mobile enough, are you having a laff?
Ang whoever said above that Jones is not mobile enough, are you having a laff?
It's been obvious from the start that the club wanted him to develop as a midfielder. We don't ever play Evans or Smalling there, and there is a very good reason for that.
Jones will end up as a midfielder, and probably a bloody good one. He will have bad games there of course, but his progress is encouraging. We need the type of midfielder that he could/is becoming far more than we need him at centre-back presently.
Jones will end up as a midfielder, and probably a bloody good one. He will have bad games there of course, but his progress is encouraging. We need the type of midfielder that he could/is becoming far more than we need him at centre-back presently.
Agree with this. I'm entirely confident that Smalling and Evans will be a world-class pairing in a couple of years. Jones could be a great CB, but he could also be a figure in midfield that we've needed for a few years whilst also being ample cover at the back when we need it, which sounds better to me.
Did you mean to say that? Implying that when he get's older, it's be normal to then start learning a new position?
NB - You cannot re-learn a NEW position
Im not saying he CANNOT, but he has not even mastered his so called best position yet, so its unfair to expect him to be running the show in midfield at his young age.
Of course over time he could adjust to be a CM very nicely, but that's like saying Rooney should be the perfect CB after 1 year playing there.
I think perhaps you should re-read my post to you slowly...
Hes the white Paul McGrath!
Played well last night, second-half in particualar. Personally though, I still see him as a centre-back. His pass selection at times can be a bit off but he as I say, he played well overall.
good article on Jones on the official site, some details about his early career:
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...&utm_campaign=newsletters&qsut=www10&pageNo=1
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...&utm_campaign=newsletters&qsut=www10&pageNo=1
The reason being Jones played in midfield before for Blackburn while Smalling and Evans haven't, I would assume.
Anyway, I believe Jones can be whatever we want him to be. We just need to make a decision and stick with it, or he'll be an improved version of O'Shea or Phil Neville.
Ok. Not that.
I loved when we played him in the number 10 role personally.
It was a Fergie style crazy move. But one that could be re-employed. The fear you strike into the heart of any so-called continental side...continental? Never been able in feck knows how many years of European history to advance past Hadrian's wall, and we all know United is a Scots side more than an English one...and, yeah, anyway...I'll show ye fear in a handful of Jones, ye feckin' short passin', high pressin' little cnuts - in the role of the trequartista you'll see three quarts of steel and the rest feckin'...soul, man. Jones, for feck's sakes: He's that promise, you know, when Sam Philips said "this, this is where the soul of a man never dies," he wasn't talking about Elvis, or Howlin' Wolf, he was talking about Phil Jones, always about Phil - or Jones - or both of 'em. You know this to be true. Or you ain't one of us.
I loved when we played him in the number 10 role personally.
That was to man mark Charlie Adam of all people.
I didn't even realise there was a 'rationale' behind it!
You say that like it's a bad thing, but just think how important the versatility those two players possessed was to our success during their times here.
Oh, it's not a bad thing at all, but I still prefer a player who is superb in one position. It would have been better if O'Shea or Phil were able to build on the early promise they showed at left back. If they just weren't that good, then everything turned out for the best, but that's still the less desirable alternative. I believe Jones can be world class, if we just settle on a position for him.
I still dont think hell ever be a great central midfielder. He'll run around a lot, put himself about, go on a few driving runs but he doesn't seem to have the attributes for a quality central midfielder. The intelligence, quality of touch and quality aren't there for me.
He's basically the Batman of our midfield.
Its sad but I think Jones as a CB would develop into a unbelievable player, but due to our midfield frailties hes been told to do a job there.
As I see it, if he wasn't good enough to play in midfield he'd actually be playing a lot less and be on the bench more. It's good that he is getting game time, wherever on the pitch it may be. That will help him become a better defender when he eventually moves permanently to defence.
You have a point, he does tend to have those moments but I would love to see Jones behind midfielders who can hold on to the ball and see him bring the ball forward from defence with his runs.
Jones and Carrick should be our midfield two at the moment. I personally feel a lot more comfortable when Jones is in there, as he is much more mobile than the rest of our midfielders and is excellent at tracking back and making recovery tackles. His ability on the ball does not overly bother me, as we other midfielders in our team who are supposed to create.
On a selfish English point of view, a midfield 3 in a few years time once Gerrard etc.. have retired, of Jones sitting behind Wilshire and Barkley would not be too shabby. Then if we can steal Januzaj too........
On a selfish English point of view, a midfield 3 in a few years time once Gerrard etc.. have retired, of Jones sitting behind Wilshire and Barkley would not be too shabby. Then if we can steal Januzaj too........
I agree with you long term. I would certain consider him as a decent option at this moment in time though. He did alright in the week to be fair, but he looks to me as though he is a defender attempting to play in midfield. Without meaning to sound harsh, he does a job in midfield, but that's about as far as he goes for me. His pass selection and game understanding just isn't quite up to the standard required to play in midfield. As you say, just doesn't have the quality to play in the role.
For me, he is a centre half. Not the classiest around but is prepared to put his body where it hearts and leads by example in regards to his effort and commitment. Just not a central midfielder.
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