Pessimistic view of the CAF when it comes to Transfers

[OleBoiii]

Berbatov

Was he really a superstar at the time, though? In the same category as Van Persie back then and Kane now?

 

[Hound Dog]

I am taken aback by this question, as I would find it surprising if the situation was the opposite.

In the 15 or so years that I have been reading this forum, I have seen United fail time and time again in securing the most promising players. Be it the search for a competent central midfielder in the late 00s, the failure to bring in Benzema, Sneijder, Ozil, Kroos, there are just too many of those to list.

The sole two genuine blockbuster transfers of this entire period were signings of Berbatov (for who there was no real competition), di Maria and Pogba. Not nearly enough for a club of this stature over such a long period time.

 

[The Firestarter]

Was he really a superstar at the time, though? In the same category as Van Persie back then and Kane now?

Not as much as Kane, but close to RVP iirc.

 

[stefan92]

You clearly don't understand how a rebuild works then if you think all it takes is clubs buying one or two quality players. Post SAF we've had to change and improve everything, the academy, the training ground, the first team players and staff, that's a rebuild, not buying top quality players and expecting your team to be better than everyone elses.

I'm not Ole biggest fan but he's had an overinflated squad, with 75-80% of the players not being useful and had to reset that mindsets from the ones he's kept from what LvG and Jose have ingrained into them, that doesn't happen overnight buddy.

Yes, United had to do a lot in several areas. Other top clubs also do have to do all these things and still are able to continuously compete for trophies. And I do understand that buying one or two top players is not the way to go when you have a chaos instead of a team (looking at what Ole inherited I think one can call it that).

But when you think that there is this big rebuild cycle ongoing, how should it end? In my eyes it should end with United being on top of the PL again (or at least challenging for that spot), and for that you need to sign top players. Not signing top players because you are "rebuilding" not only ensures that you are never done rebuilding (which you should not be anyways) but that you never reach the absolute top.

 

[bsCallout]

We've been heartbroken before. It's like '500 days of summer', every year.

 

[pascell]

Yes, United had to do a lot in several areas. Other top clubs also do have to do all these things and still are able to continuously compete for trophies. And I do understand that buying one or two top players is not the way to guy when you have a chaos instead of a team (looking at what Ole inherited I think one can call it that).

But when you think that there is this big rebuild cycle ongoing, how should it end? In my eyes it should end with United being on top of the PL again (or at least challenging for that spot), and for that you need to sign top players. Not signing top players because you are "rebuilding" not only ensures that you are never done rebuilding (which you should not be anyways) but that you never reach the absolute top.

I have no idea but we keep getting told we're in a rebuild and I agree it should end with United top of the PL. I didn't say we shouldn't sign top players? We obviously need that in several key areas still as the team/squad isn't champions of the PL.

 

[Rozay]

As embarrassing as it is, genuinely think many posters are just doing some sort of rejection safeguarding for themselves and apply reverse psychology. Which is ridiculous, it’s a fecking football transfer we are taking about! It’s always everyone except United that stand a chance. Go read the first few pages of the Great Pogba thread. ‘No chance’ x 100. Many consistently wrote off Sancho having any interest too.

 

[Plant0x84]

We haven't seen Murtough/Fletcher in a transfer window yet, I'm quietly confident this Summer is going to be much better than the last few summers we've had.

Fletcher is just a technical advisor and Murtough is a Woodward stooge who has been at the club long enough to not be a breath of fresh air. I hope you are right but I doubt this summer will be vastly different.

 

[Green_Red]

What is it with the CAF and being so pessimistic when it comes to transfers?

I've said this in a number of threads now and feel as though it deserves it's own thread.

In a number of threads discussing players such as Kane, Grealish, Ronaldo and Sancho. There are lots of posts from users that just straight up dismiss the possibility of us signing anyone. Like Kane people are already writing him off to go to City, now a strange one is Sancho is all of a sudden a dead cert to go to Chelsea or Ronaldo back to Madrid.

The CAF has this weird juxtaposition of wanting the worlds best players at the club and wanting the club to challenge for honours. But at the same time, each time good and world class players are available, almost immediately write them off and say that they're going to our rivals.

So, I ask the question, why (and I know Glazers, don't trust them to shell out the money etc etc) but why in your view, do you think the CAF is this way? Why can't one of the world's richest clubs sign the world's best players. We got Bruno and beat City to the signing of both Bruno and Maguire! So it's not like we can't compete. So why is Kane a dead cert to be going to City?

Experience.

The only player I can recall absolutely wanting us to sign post Fergie that we signed was Bruno. The rest were always a consolation. Rarely get the player we actually want.

 

[Ralph1386]

Recent history of transfers Bruno aside has been really poor.

We also drag every transfer deal out for months & it turns into a saga, while City & Liverpool sign players quietly in a matter of days. Makes us pessimistic.

Even the Bruno transfer was randomly stumbled upon. We had turned down signing him in previous windows, then in January 2020 Haaland turned us down, McTominay got injured (Pogba was already injured) and that’s when the club was forced to go for him. If mcTominay hadn’t been injured I don’t even think the club would have gone for him.

 

[Ralph1386]

We haven't seen Murtough/Fletcher in a transfer window yet, I'm quietly confident this Summer is going to be much better than the last few summers we've had.

What evidence do you have to be quietly confident? What is it based on?

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

What is it with the CAF and being so pessimistic when it comes to transfers?

I've said this in a number of threads now and feel as though it deserves it's own thread.

In a number of threads discussing players such as Kane, Grealish, Ronaldo and Sancho. There are lots of posts from users that just straight up dismiss the possibility of us signing anyone. Like Kane people are already writing him off to go to City, now a strange one is Sancho is all of a sudden a dead cert to go to Chelsea or Ronaldo back to Madrid.

The CAF has this weird juxtaposition of wanting the worlds best players at the club and wanting the club to challenge for honours. But at the same time, each time good and world class players are available, almost immediately write them off and say that they're going to our rivals.

So, I ask the question, why (and I know Glazers, don't trust them to shell out the money etc etc) but why in your view, do you think the CAF is this way? Why can't one of the world's richest clubs sign the world's best players. We got Bruno and beat City to the signing of both Bruno and Maguire! So it's not like we can't compete. So why is Kane a dead cert to be going to City?

Last summer alone proved all of our fears in my opinion.

Cavani on a free as a last minute Hail Mary is the only purchase who improved our first team.

The club used covid as the excuse. Here we are a year later with a full season of covid as the excuse.

I want us to be in for all the big targets but I am genuinely scared we won't have close to a 50 mill net spend

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Even the Bruno transfer was randomly stumbled upon. We had turned down signing him in previous windows, then in January 2020 Haaland turned us down, McTominay got injured (Pogba was already injured) and that’s when the club was forced to go for him. If mcTominay hadn’t been injured I don’t even think the club would have gone for him.

Ole wanted Bruno in the summer but United thought Sporting were asking for too much.

 

[Ralph1386]

We didn't. Ole wanted Bruno in the summer but United thought Sporting were asking for too much.

Ole wanted Haaland. If he wanted Bruno in the summer of 2019 he could have had him because he was there for the taking. He wanted to first give a chance to Lingard and Pereira. Look at all the interviews he was giving back then.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Ole wanted Haaland. If he wanted Bruno in the summer of 2019 he could have had him because he was there for the taking. He wanted to first give a chance to Lingard and Pereira. Look at all the interviews he was giving back then.

It's been reported by reliable sources like Whitwell, Mitten etc that Ole wanted him but United felt Sporting wanted too much and decided to wait. I wouldn't read too much into what Ole says publicly.

 

[Ralph1386]

It's been reported by reliable sources like Whitwell, Mitten etc that Ole wanted him but United felt Sporting wanted too much and decided to wait. I wouldn't read too much into what Ole says publicly.

I wouldn’t read much into what the club briefs the press to make themselves look competent in the transfer market.

 

[The Mitcher]

Because it’s the hope that kills you, so we kill the hope first. Self preservation.

This.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

And City are in a final later in the week and just finished 1st in the league.

Will they sign every player

 

[simonhch]

I’m not particularly negative about our ability to buy players. We’ve spent some stupid money at times. What’s always vexed me is how we’ve spent. Reactionary to missing out on the CL, or without any foresight to long time planning or managerial turnover. It all has to be synced into one holistic strategic intent, which has been missing.

I feel Ole has brought that, as best he can. The real test will be when he goes, because every manager goes eventually, and whether we will have continuity in playing style and therefore not have to churn our entire squad over like we have with the last two managers. That problem is answered by those at the top of the club, and that’s where you lose confidence.

In terms of appeal, finance, prestige, willingness to spend etc., I have few concerns.

 

[Roboc7]

It's been reported by reliable sources like Whitwell, Mitten etc that Ole wanted him but United felt Sporting wanted too much and decided to wait. I wouldn't read too much into what Ole says publicly.

Bruno was also very close to going to Spurs so I don’t think we were as eager to sign him that summer as has been briefed since his arrival. Seems as if we had more interest in Longstaff at the time but who knows with all the nonsense that gets written.

 

[rimaldo]

What is it with the CAF and being so pessimistic when it comes to transfers?

fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice… can’t get fooled again.

 

[Champagne Football]

You can call it a pessimistic view, or just being realistic.

Camavinga said today that he wants to go to PSG pretty much, but for the past weeks on the caf, you'd swear we had him all but tied up. It was the same with De Ligt/Tonali/Frenkie De Jong,Joao Felix etc.... You'd swear by some on the caf, all we had to do was wave the cash, and the deal was done.

In times gone by, we easily would have signed Haaland and Jude Bellingham over Dortmund, but something is wrong when Dortmund are offering double the weekly salary that we can, when it's clear the kid is going to be a huge star.

Not signing Sancho last season, has meant Greenwood getting more valuable experience.

The question is -
Do we really need Sancho or can Greenwood and Diallo save us 80 million by playing same position?

Do we really need Grealish even though we have Rashford, Pogba, Mejbri and Van de Beek who can play a similar role?

Do we really need Kane when Greenwood might be a world class striker in 18 months?

Do we really need Camavinga when we already have Garner who should be ready for that role in 1 year?

From past dealing with Levy over Bale, I don't think the club is in any rush to deal with the tightass scrooge that is Levy again.

We clearly urgently need a box to box midfielder, a central defender, and a back up striker to Cavani. But when you see some of the talent coming through like Mejbri, Van de Beek, Elanga, then perhaps it would be better to look closer to home. Maybe a central defender like Botman or Pau Torres, and a solid back up striker like Ings is all we need. But I think Ole will try for Sancho also depending on if we can offload some players for nice money first, like Pogba, Jesse and James. But if we can't offload them, then I think Ole will be happy to stick with Greenwood and Diallo for RW next season.

 

[UnitedSofa]

What evidence do you have to be quietly confident? What is it based on?

The way the wind is blowing this morning

 

[croadyman]

Yeah some of us who are veterans of a Utd transfer window have been burnt so many times in the past, still think 2009 when we never replaced Ronaldo or Tevez stands out as a particular shocker

 

[lex talionis]

The pessimism arises from observed experience. We’ve gone on too many fruitless chases, going way back to before Hazard and Sneijder. We settled for mediocrity like Fellaini. And then flops, like Depay. And then colossal clusterfukks, like Sanchez.

The gems, like Bruno, have been the exception.

 

[TheReligion]

fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice… can’t get fooled again.

Fool me three times?

 

[RedDevil@84]

Because anyone who has observed us operating in the last decade or more have seen how it works. The big money, big hype transfers go on and on and on and eventually do not come to fruition. Which is due to combination of several factors like asking price, our current trophy less years, absolute joke of a negotiation team etc etc.

One should be almost blinded by optimism to think we can achieve all those hyped big name targets.

 

[Crustanoid]

I think we have irrefutable proof from over a decade of Glazer and Woodward expertise in strategic player recruitment masterclasses every Summer to be able to predict how things pan out

 

[Jezpeza]

I dont think its so much negativity as realism. You get some crazy posts alluding to us selling about 14 players ala FIFA football to fund about £300m of spending but for ‘50m net’. Usually involves selling Phil Jones for £25m etc etc.

We dont tend to spend heavily unless backing a new manager or missing the top 4. At one stage a couple of years ago I totted up our average spending at £58m a summer under the Glazers, not sure where it is now.

As we have seen, I just dont think the owners ambition matches the fans. We are in a crucial summer now because last summer we needed a rotation left back, rotation creative midfielder, and starters at cb, cdm, rw, cf. we went cheap after 3 months of covid finances but we got two of those and a brilliant shorter term signing in Cavani. Lo and behold we more or less performed as last year, with Bruno for a full season. No player to have a big bearing on the starting 11 most weeks.

We are stacked with potential at the moment in Elanga, Mjebri, Diallo, Mengi, Laird and more, but we need players for today this summer window. The names bandied about are fine - your Jules Koundes, Harry Kanes, Jadon Sanchos, Declan Rices. Exactly the sort of players we need I just think its unrealistic to set yourself up for us to sign them all. I think we will get one or two good players but possibly not those above. But who knows after the PR disaster of the protest whether it may leverage the board. With goalkeeper conundrums, players out of contract, deadwood returning from loan spells to hopefully be sold, the Pogba situation, it will certainly be interesting and potentially busy. Got to factor in 15 months of Covid finances as well, not the 3 months that affected last summer so badly.

 

[golden_blunder]

It's been reported by reliable sources like Whitwell, Mitten etc that Ole wanted him but United felt Sporting wanted too much and decided to wait. I wouldn't read too much into what Ole says publicly.

One could argue we only got into gear when his move to Spurs fell through first. Aren’t we lucky?

 

[Lux Thunder]

It's just a case that we obviously don't trust the board for numerous reasons and most recently last summer when we also have the feeling that Ole should be backed properly and the board failed.

Okay, we all witness the COVID crisis, but there were some decisions before such as Jones and De Gea contracts, Alexis fiasco, etc. They were not proactive in the market, slow to react, choose quantity over quality. I know it is a fantasy world going on in another thread, but to have that amount of deadwood and players who can leave without any harm to our squad it's not a coincidence, it shows how poorly things are run.

Hope that will change with the new setup, but also with a bit of skepticism.

 

[passing-wind]

Recent history of transfers Bruno aside has been really poor.

We also drag every transfer deal out for months & it turns into a saga, while City & Liverpool sign players quietly in a matter of days. Makes us pessimistic.

I agree the club has shown themselves to be inept when negotiations are in play. Recruitment has been better under Solskjaer overall but irrespective of a journalist saying a deals close information cannot be trusted until the signing is official. The clubs also missed some key targets recent windows most prominently Sancho, Bellingham and Haaland.

 

[OrcaFat]

A substantial and rather vociferous minority are generally negative first chance they get (“pathetic” being a favourite adjective) and I dare say some of us expect or demand more than is reasonable in the first place.

Myself, I wouldn’t say I’m optimistic about new signings but we have signed quite a few beauties over the years.

This summer I’d like Rice and Grealish but I don’t think we’ll get either. I wouldn’t call that pessimism but sometimes I worry we’re not going to sign a single player who will actually improve our first 11 and that’s pretty pessimistic (and yet not exactly baseless hysteria).

 

[bsCallout]

Yeah some of us who are veterans of a Utd transfer window have been burnt so many times in the past, still think 2009 when we never replaced Ronaldo or Tevez stands out as a particular shocker

The beginning of the end for our squad.

We got an ageing RVP to win a title and brought back a retired Scholes to help too. With the wizard in charge. But the squad was falling apart from that window.

 

[DarkDog]

What is it with the CAF and being so pessimistic when it comes to transfers?

I've said this in a number of threads now and feel as though it deserves it's own thread.

In a number of threads discussing players such as Kane, Grealish, Ronaldo and Sancho. There are lots of posts from users that just straight up dismiss the possibility of us signing anyone. Like Kane people are already writing him off to go to City, now a strange one is Sancho is all of a sudden a dead cert to go to Chelsea or Ronaldo back to Madrid.

The CAF has this weird juxtaposition of wanting the worlds best players at the club and wanting the club to challenge for honours. But at the same time, each time good and world class players are available, almost immediately write them off and say that they're going to our rivals.

So, I ask the question, why (and I know Glazers, don't trust them to shell out the money etc etc) but why in your view, do you think the CAF is this way? Why can't one of the world's richest clubs sign the world's best players. We got Bruno and beat City to the signing of both Bruno and Maguire! So it's not like we can't compete. So why is Kane a dead cert to be going to City?

Go and look at our net spend, they allow our club to spend 100 mil net spend (not inc) covid seasons. They wont go over net spend of 100 mil. that is never going to be enough to buy best players. we will forever have holes in our squad that they wont allow to fill because they need to fill their own pockets with dividends and bonus payments to their family and friends

 

[croadyman]

Go and look at our net spend, they allow our club to spend 100 mil net spend (not inc) covid seasons. They wont go over net spend of 100 mil. that is never going to be enough to buy best players. we will forever have holes in our squad that they wont allow to fill because they need to fill their own pockets with dividends and bonus payments to their family and friends

Wow and I thought I was the most negative person on the CAF when it came to transfers but you have definitely taken the crown

 

[Scriblerus]

The attitude is born of years of experience. In terms of the business - and we are a business - this year has been good one. Second place, maybe a trophy, CL income next year, young players coming through, even with reduced income there's enough in the trough for all the piggies to have a dip. Maybe a big signing, but if so it will be because it's deemed necessary to attract sponsors and placate disgruntled fans. Cavani for another 12 months means we don't need a striker, two kids recently signed for the right side of attack and one - Amad - looking very promising means we don't need a winger. There's a nearly new Donny to play with, and 'getting Jesse back is like having a new signing'. I think we'll go for a DM with Matic on his last legs, and a CD if the price is right. Higher expectations will come to nothing.

 

[stevoc]

What is it with the CAF and being so pessimistic when it comes to transfers?

I've said this in a number of threads now and feel as though it deserves it's own thread.

In a number of threads discussing players such as Kane, Grealish, Ronaldo and Sancho. There are lots of posts from users that just straight up dismiss the possibility of us signing anyone. Like Kane people are already writing him off to go to City, now a strange one is Sancho is all of a sudden a dead cert to go to Chelsea or Ronaldo back to Madrid.

The CAF has this weird juxtaposition of wanting the worlds best players at the club and wanting the club to challenge for honours. But at the same time, each time good and world class players are available, almost immediately write them off and say that they're going to our rivals.

So, I ask the question, why (and I know Glazers, don't trust them to shell out the money etc etc) but why in your view, do you think the CAF is this way? Why can't one of the world's richest clubs sign the world's best players. We got Bruno and beat City to the signing of both Bruno and Maguire! So it's not like we can't compete. So why is Kane a dead cert to be going to City?

If you've supported United for any great length of time disappointment in the transfer market is a recurring theme. In the 90's we couldn't sign the World's best because of the wage structure that seen United unable to compete with well pretty much every other PL club in terms of wages. So the superstar signings always proved elusive.

That all changed when the Wage structure was shattered by Keanes new contract in 2001. All of a sudden we could sign the likes of Veron and pay him £80k per week. Ferdinand and Van Nistelrooy were signed around the same time and if not for Kenyon fecking about we would have got Ronaldiniho in 2003 as well.

But then Roman bought Chelsea and started blowing anything United could offer out of the water, Robben, Mikel etc all went there instead of United. Then Man City founded in 2008 repeated the process and United were back to not being able to compete on the wages front.

And of course location has, is and always will be an issue. With so many alternative destinations offering similar or better money in London, Spain, France and Italy (in the past). Convincing players to come and play in rainy Manchester has always been a hard sell. Personally I think it's a great place to live but most footballers especially latin players from warmer climates don't seem to feel the same. If you were to listen to tossers like Tevez and DiMaria you'd think it was the worst place in the world.

So when a lot of United fans write off the possibility of United signing superstars. They aren't so much being pessimistic as they are realistic.

 

[DarkDog]

Wow and I thought I was the most negative person on the CAF when it came to transfers but you have definitely taken the crown

Just keep looking at my posts, everything i have said about Glazers and how they are spending our clubs’ money has been true. i have predicted our net spend to the dot. Only reason we could spend money this year is because Glazers are afraid of the attacks against sponsors. And by spending money i say 100 mil net spend. probably more realistic number will be 60-80 mil net.
Biggest problem we have is Glazers don’t have money themselves so they have to keep leeching from us. But with covid and all the loans they have taken out during the covid I really don’t see where club will find the money. only options are to take out more loans and if clubs are willing to take money during the next 3 seasons
just don’t get your hopes up mate, Glazers are just feeding you bulls* via the press to keep you hooked

 

[Eckers99]

Even when we were the dominant side in England and Europe, getting our main targets wasn't guaranteed. There was always a chance that the 'x doesn't fancy Manchester / the climate / United won't break their wage structure' reasoning would arise.

Tie that to our recent struggles on the pitch and a few frustrating recent transfer windows and I guess it's a recipe for negativity.