'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

I can understand City supporters sticking up for Pep, but what about the nubile guy?

I ask again, @footballistic orgasm are you his son, or something? Why are you so obsessed with him, it's a really strange fetish. What's your angle? I just don't get it.

Why waste your entire daily post count in few hours/minutes on this cheating cnut, when you could be posting/commenting on something interesting? There's a wealth of threads on the Forum. Have a look around and see what the Forum can offer you.
 
Sassy Colin said:
I can understand City supporters sticking up for Pep, but what about the nubile guy?

I ask again, @footballistic orgasm are you his son, or something? Why are you so obsessed with him, it's a really strange fetish. What's your angle? I just don't get it.

Why waste your entire daily post count in few hours/minutes on this cheating cnut, when you could be posting/commenting on something interesting? There's a wealth of threads on the Forum. Have a look around and see what the Forum can offer you.
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It's ingrained in Man City culture that you have to defend the indefensible at all times.
 
Sassy Colin said:
I can understand City supporters sticking up for Pep, but what about the nubile guy?

I ask again, @footballistic orgasm are you his son, or something? Why are you so obsessed with him, it's a really strange fetish. What's your angle? I just don't get it.

Why waste your entire daily post count in few hours/minutes on this cheating cnut, when you could be posting/commenting on something interesting? There's a wealth of threads on the Forum. Have a look around and see what the Forum can offer you.
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We live in a time in which people are often fans of players and, even odder, of managers as opposed to clubs. Remember @Amadaeus?!
 
MegadrivePerson said:
You'd barely even played in the Champions League so it's no surprise you hadn't won it!

Ok fine, Take Mourinho at Chelsea out of the equation then. At least he won the Champions League with Porto though which is a bigger achievement than anything Guardiola has ever done!
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Even more impressive for ol' Josep then ;)

I have no problem accepting that though, I consider huge achievments with assumed lower quality teams as impressive as anyone else. I'm just saying downplaying Guardiola as a manager because of it is way too simplistic. None of the others have really transformed the sport, and shown they can make a team as consistently dominating as Guardiola. There is also enough signs in Guardiolas unusual career trajectory that it is pretty safe to assume that he has the tools to perform similar miracles with smaller teams.

Point is, those incredible achievments stands on their own and will be cherished by most. Can easily be an argument when you compare careers and legacy. But in terms of comparing managerial ability they are in my opinion not the great arguments a lot of people think they are
 
Daydreamer said:
I actually agree with what you're saying here. As I said, I think Guardiola is a genius who's earned all of the praise that's showered upon him. His first game in the PL was against the legendary Stoke. I disagree that he has to win with an underdog team in order to be considered one of the best ever.

When I say that City's success feels hollow (to me, subjectively) I mean just that - City's success feels hollow. If you hire best Manager on the planet and give him near limitless resources, then he will dominate. Especially if six years in you give him the deadliest striker on Earth.

I think I'm agreeing with what you've said elsewhere, had Guardiola taken over at United, he would have won the league. And had United given him the money they gave Moyes, Mourinho, Ole and ETH, he would probably have won the treble at United within seven years too. That's what reminds me of Football Manager, not because Guardiola isn't brilliant - but because he is.
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Yep, we are in agreement then :)
I wasn't the one that posted he would have won titles at United, but I definitely suscpect he would.

I can definitely see the argument that giving the best in the world these type of resources removes him from the criteria, others are judged by, absolutely
 
padzilla said:
There's no question that Pep is a superb coach, none at all.

The question marks are around whether he would have success at other clubs that do not have the resources of the three clubs he has managed.

He has only managed clubs where success has been the footballing equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel... with a rocket launcher.
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But when you're at the top of your field, you don't have to worry about that. Look at Ancelotti at Everton...sometimes the top managers work better when they are working alongside the top players/clubs.
 
Pascal Quiff said:
But when you're at the top of your field, you don't have to worry about that. Look at Ancelotti at Everton...sometimes the top managers work better when they are working alongside the top players/clubs.
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My brother is an Everton supporter, randomly, and is adamant Ancelotti had them playing the best football he's ever seen from the club. He said you could tell he is a great coach just from the technical improvement in the basics from the players and how there was almost an absolute collapse after he left.
 
I was watching some old clips when Pep was at Barca and they wiped the floor with Madrid so many times, both at the Nou Camp and the Bernabau. It wasn't Madrid in their peak, but even still I don't even think that team that won the treble of CL's could have gotten near them.

Actually made me feel a little better having watched us being dominated time and again in the derby, and further highlights the genius of Pep really.

There's nobody that can compete with him. Liverpool and Klopp have done a good job intermittently, but we'll not see the likes of what he's doing for long time once he's gone. The goal for other top teams is to position themselves for when he does leave.

City have brilliant players and could very well be successful still when he is gone, but I think he's just that outstanding that it won't be anywhere near the scale it has been these past 5/6 years.
 
Zen86 said:
Why bring age into in the first place if not to suggest the squad was substandard? The squad was one of, if not the strongest in the league. That’s what he inherited. He then went on to spend a fortune to increase the squad strength gap between him and the rest of the league. You really can’t separate Pep and the amount of resource he’s had during his time at City, as much as you’re trying to bend the conversation to do so.

I don’t really understand why you’re here in all honesty if not to wind up the forum, you should just feck off and worship him somewhere else.
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So while he bought players to improve an old squad, the other teams weren't doing the same?

If having a debate on a forum is enough to wind you up like this, then I fear you're too fragile and may have bigger issues.

MegadrivePerson said:
We'll never know unless he actually proves it though.

Any bang average manager can and has won things with City, Barcelona and Bayern.

To me that's why his achievements will never compare with what Ferguson did with Aberdeen and United, what Klopp has done with Dortmund and Liverpool, what Mourinho did with Porto and Chelsea and what Wenger did with Arsenal.

Guardiola has literally nothing on his CV to suggest he can win major trophies unless it's with a cheat team on easy mode!
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Why do you think a coach who won everything there is to win in his first season as a division one coach, and with a distinct style widely recognized, will go on to coach average teams? In any other line of work, no one will question him moving up and only working with the best after that.

Sassy Colin said:
I can understand City supporters sticking up for Pep, but what about the nubile guy?

I ask again, @footballistic orgasm are you his son, or something? Why are you so obsessed with him, it's a really strange fetish. What's your angle? I just don't get it.

Why waste your entire daily post count in few hours/minutes on this cheating cnut, when you could be posting/commenting on something interesting? There's a wealth of threads on the Forum. Have a look around and see what the Forum can offer you.
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Once again, did Pep sleep with your partner that you keep looking for ways to downplay his achievements ?
Thanks for worrying about what I chose to post about, but stick to the topic or jog on.


MegadrivePerson said:
It's ingrained in Man City culture that you have to defend the indefensible at all times.
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I don't know about Man City culture, but even United's current captain agrees with me about Pep. So is it a Manchester culture though ?
 
footballistic orgasm said:
Why do you think a coach who won everything there is to win in his first season as a division one coach, and with a distinct style widely recognized, will go on to coach average teams? In any other line of work, no one will question him moving up and only working with the best after that.

I don't know about Man City culture, but even United's current captain agrees with me about Pep. So is it a Manchester culture though ?
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If he really wanted to test himself he'd turn an average team in to a great one. That is the ultimate test for any manager, much like Ferguson, Klopp, Wenger and Mourinho (Porto) all did. The fact that he doesn't back himself to do this shows what sort of a character he is. Always takes the easy option.

No because it directly stems from City fans convincing themselves that they are innocent of all 115 charges against them. Convincing themselves that they fairly have the highest revenue in football despite not even being able to sell out their stadium.
 
Sassy Colin said:
I can understand City supporters sticking up for Pep, but what about the nubile guy?

I ask again, @footballistic orgasm are you his son, or something? Why are you so obsessed with him, it's a really strange fetish. What's your angle? I just don't get it.

Why waste your entire daily post count in few hours/minutes on this cheating cnut, when you could be posting/commenting on something interesting? There's a wealth of threads on the Forum. Have a look around and see what the Forum can offer you.
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Every now and then we get these raging fanboys who dedicate their forum existence to one individual (Poch/ Pep / Messi / Ronaldo). I suppose at least Pep is successful unlike Poch. Constantly intertwined with cheats but successful nonetheless.
 
MegadrivePerson said:
If he really wanted to test himself he'd turn an average team in to a great one. That is the ultimate test for any manager, much like Ferguson, Klopp, Wenger and Mourinho (Porto) all did. The fact that he doesn't back himself to do this shows what sort of a character he is. Always takes the easy option.

No because it directly stems from City fans convincing themselves that they are innocent of all 115 charges against them. Convincing themselves that they fairly have the highest revenue in football despite not even being able to sell out their stadium.
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:confused:

George Graham didn't die for nothing
 
adexkola said:
:confused:

George Graham didn't die for nothing
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He wanted Mourinho at Chelsea as a miracle worker on a low budget a couple of hours ago, Wenger who inherited half the England starting eleven plus Dennis Bergkamp is something we can give him I think

Wait until he finds out about Kenny Dalglish's heroic wheeling and dealing at Blackburn
 
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Zen86 said:
Why bring age into in the first place if not to suggest the squad was substandard? The squad was one of, if not the strongest in the league. That’s what he inherited. He then went on to spend a fortune to increase the squad strength gap between him and the rest of the league. You really can’t separate Pep and the amount of resource he’s had during his time at City, as much as you’re trying to bend the conversation to do so.

I don’t really understand why you’re here in all honesty if not to wind up the forum, you should just feck off and worship him somewhere else.
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That squad finished 4th the previous season level on points with LvG Man Utd
 
MegadrivePerson said:
We'll never know unless he actually proves it though.

Any bang average manager can and has won things with City, Barcelona and Bayern.

To me that's why his achievements will never compare with what Ferguson did with Aberdeen and United, what Klopp has done with Dortmund and Liverpool, what Mourinho did with Porto and Chelsea and what Wenger did with Arsenal.

Guardiola has literally nothing on his CV to suggest he can win major trophies unless it's with a cheat team on easy mode!
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Claudio Ranieri is the greatest manager. No feat in football compares to Leicester winning the league
 
kaiser1 said:
That squad finished 4th the previous season level on points with LvG Man Utd
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Bearing in mind the manager knew he was being moved on, it's no surprise they tailed off towards the end. But won the league cup and got knocked out in the CL semis by Real who won it. Most of that team had already won the title twice under 2 different managers and the core of KDB, Silva, Kompany, Aguero, Fernandinho, Sterling were all very conveniently there.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Bearing in mind the manager knew he was being moved on, it's no surprise they tailed off towards the end. But won the league cup and got knocked out in the CL semis by Real who won it. Most of that team had already won the title twice under 2 different managers and the core of KDB, Silva, Kompany, Aguero, Fernandinho, Sterling were all very conveniently there.
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Juup Heynckes knew he was being moved on yet won the treble
 
footballistic orgasm said:
So while he bought players to improve an old squad, the other teams weren't doing the same?

If having a debate on a forum is enough to wind you up like this, then I fear you're too fragile and may have bigger issues.
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I’m not wound up. I don’t really get why someone pretending not to be a City fan would spend their days talking nonsense about Pep and City on a United forum.
 
Zen86 said:
I’m not wound up. I don’t really get why someone pretending not to be a City fan would spend their days talking nonsense about Pep and City on a United forum.
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I wouldn’t waste too much energy on this guy. Posters like that tend to have a short shelf life around here. They’ll be gone as quick as they appeared.
 
kaiser1 said:
Juup Heynckes knew he was being moved on yet won the treble
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Wasn’t he retiring and then got annoyed it got announced mid season? Not exactly being moved on in the way Pellegrini was which was basically being the stop gap whilst Pep was at Bayern.

Heyneckes is a multi CL winning manager regardless, fair to say he’s a better manager than Pellegrini who was bang average and still won the league with that team.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Wasn’t he retiring and then got annoyed it got announced mid season? Not exactly being moved on in the way Pellegrini was which was basically being the stop gap whilst Pep was at Bayern.

Heyneckes is a multi CL winning manager regardless, fair to say he’s a better manager than Pellegrini who was bang average and still won the league with that team.
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Not long after winning the league if memory serves me right as well?
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Wasn’t he retiring and then got annoyed it got announced mid season? Not exactly being moved on in the way Pellegrini was which was basically being the stop gap whilst Pep was at Bayern.

Heyneckes is a multi CL winning manager regardless, fair to say he’s a better manager than Pellegrini who was bang average and still won the league with that team.
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It's not very clear as Heynckes and Hoeneß are good friends and their conversation mostly still are treated as confidential by both. But it is known that Heynckes thought Hoeneß was making a mistake by going after Guardiola and at least hinted that he would have liked to stay. So he kind of was forced into retirement. Considering Pep's lack of success at Bayern (no CL, not even a final), Heynckes might have been right.
 
kaiser1 said:
You are not, DiMaria left faster than anyone. He left in 1yr. You signed Pogba for a record fee for EPL midfielder, he is gone, you signed Lukaku for a record fee for an EPL striker he is gone, Sancho has been sent off to Dortmund after he spent like 1yr on the bench and off to rehab, Van der Beek is off
You need a buyer willing to pay and pay the players salaries, to sell off bad players
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Gone and not replaced as easily as they’ve been replaced at City.
Thanks for proving my point once again
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Wasn’t he retiring and then got annoyed it got announced mid season? Not exactly being moved on in the way Pellegrini was which was basically being the stop gap whilst Pep was at Bayern.

Heyneckes is a multi CL winning manager regardless, fair to say he’s a better manager than Pellegrini who was bang average and still won the league with that team.
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Jump had a season more to retire in summer 2014. Bayern brought forward his retirement to summer 2013 and announced January 2013 he was going to leave by summer.

Pellegrini got like 96 points as Madrid coach their 2nd highest point total of all time so not exactly bang average

The excuse that he was fired was why he finished 4th doesn't just hold it, he finished 4th in the league and made the CL semi. So what did the firing do to him?

Tuchel is in the same boat and still beat Lazio
 
Zed is not dead said:
Gone and not replaced as easily as they’ve been replaced at City.
Thanks for proving my point once again
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Who were the big purchase players City bought, sacked in 1 season like Dimaria?
We also have those left to rot on the bench after 1 season like Van Der Beek and Depay
 
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Given my vow concerning this topic, I will only comment on the meta and margins

1. Policing of these topics on here is usually done as a weird defense of SAF, as if the more the merits of other coaches are discussed, the worse off SAF appears; well the great man doesn't need your defense or mine. He's the greatest to have done it to this point, because he was more than a coach and more than a manager, he combined 3-4 roles into one and did it brilliantly over a long period of time. The man who this thread is about, Jose, and others would admit as such. So no need to be extra defensive of what doesn't need defending

2. Discussion of coaching/managerial greatness by some is limited to how well they did "against the odds", as if management is parallel to a FM save. There are no top flight jobs on easy mode, they all require expertise in different ways. And there is no "acid test" of management (and yes, I'm talking about the "can he do it at Stoke" one). It's enough to excel in your lane to be considered one of the greatest

3. There are some coaches that are recognized in football, not for what they won, but how they changed the game. There's more than one axis (which is usually trophy count) to greatness. Pulis was closer to managerial greatness in how he changed the game than in how many games he won (I will not expand on this)

4. The football forum is the crown jewel of the forum and conversations like this make the forum better and further away from RAWK. Instead of policing what is spoken about on this non-partisan side of things, why not stay on that side and repeat for the 30th time how Maguire has the turning circle of the ship that just sank the bridge in Baltimore... Or better yet, make a thread about how actually, Big Sam is the best manager apart from Fergie because A, B and C... taking traffic away from this thread?
 
MegadrivePerson said:
If he really wanted to test himself he'd turn an average team in to a great one. That is the ultimate test for any manager, much like Ferguson, Klopp, Wenger and Mourinho (Porto) all did. The fact that he doesn't back himself to do this shows what sort of a character he is. Always takes the easy option.

No because it directly stems from City fans convincing themselves that they are innocent of all 115 charges against them. Convincing themselves that they fairly have the highest revenue in football despite not even being able to sell out their stadium.
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All those guys didn't win every trophy their first season. Once Mourinho won the CL with Porto, he moved on to a richer club and a bigger league. He didn't move to an average club to see if he could do it again, no coach has done that because it makes no sense.

Zen86 said:
I’m not wound up. I don’t really get why someone pretending not to be a City fan would spend their days talking nonsense about Pep and City on a United forum.
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Zen86 said:
They do, but he’s seemingly the turd that won’t flush.
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You're clearly wound up and I take it you've ran out of dumb arguments? You're too fragile kid.
 
kaiser1 said:
Jump had a season more to retire in summer 2014. Bayern brought forward his retirement to summer 2013 and announced January 2013 he was going to leave by summer.

Pellegrini got like 96 points as Madrid coach their 2nd highest point total of all time so not exactly bang average

The excuse that he was fired was why he finished 4th doesn't just hold it, he finished 4th in the league and made the CL semi. So what did the firing do to him?

Tuchel is in the same boat and still beat Lazio
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We went pretty stale early on in the second season under Pellegrini. Result wise it was okay until his last one where we really struggled to qualify for the CL. Had a decent run to the semis in the CL beating Dynamo Kiev and PSG but the semi-finals against Madrid was a terrible experience. Extremely boring and safe football hardly managed to create a chance over two legs against a Madrid side that seemingly had two off-days as well. His first season was great, offensively fantastic but defensively flawed.

Pellegrini was in no way shape or form a bang average manager, but the way we played under him, what we won and how he managed the squad can not be compared to the greatness of Guardiola. People seem to be clutching at straws in these discussions, creating arguments that are so deeply flawed and easily debunked by people that cared enough to remember the time periods they describe.

Any average Joe can't do what Pep has done at City, because only really Pep does what Pep does. Mancini and Pellegrini were very good managers in their time but they couldn't sustain it. This is what Pep does best, sustain it.

Put it this way, if there ever comes a manager on the market showing signs of being able to instill the sort of perfection and domination Pep does the market for him would be crazier than if a new Messi turns up. Yet people on the fecking internet is adamant his abillity should be judged on stuff they know he will never have to do, and the insanely impressive stuff he has done is easily downplayed because fecking Mark Hughes could probably have done with his resources. Because on the internet you can say stuff and base it on absolutely nothing and no one cares
 
Zen86 said:
Why bring age into in the first place if not to suggest the squad was substandard? The squad was one of, if not the strongest in the league. That’s what he inherited. He then went on to spend a fortune to increase the squad strength gap between him and the rest of the league. You really can’t separate Pep and the amount of resource he’s had during his time at City, as much as you’re trying to bend the conversation to do so.

I don’t really understand why you’re here in all honesty if not to wind up the forum, you should just feck off and worship him somewhere else.
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The squad he inherited was far from sub-standard, the season before he arrived they were Premier League champions and reached the Champions League Semi Final for the first time in their history.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
The squad he inherited was far from sub-standard, the season before he arrived they were Premier League champions and reached the Champions League Semi Final for the first time in their history.
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Again, what is even the point? Is the tiniest bit of accuracy too much to ask for?
 
FeedTheGoat said:
We had never won a Champions League, a treble or taken 100 points in the league before Pep took over.
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Pellegrini got you to the Semi Final tbe year before Pep arrived and you probably would have won it much sooner if you had have stuck with him.

The 100 points thing was down to the Premier League being the weakest it had ever been with too many crap teams that didnt even try to give you a game.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Pellegrini got you to the Semi Final tbe year before Pep arrived and you probably would have won it much sooner if you had have stuck with him.

The 100 points thing was down to the Premier League being the weakest it had ever been with too many crap teams that didnt even try to give you a game.
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Yes but you just said we won the league that year. How can I trust anything you say when you state something so untrue as fact. And then you follow up with more baseless drivel? We would have won it sooner with Pellegrini? Based on what, please tell me? Because he beat Kiev, scraped past PSG and went out on a whimper against Madrid while almost bottling 4th in the league with a dressing-room he had lost?

Why didn't anyone try in the 100 point season, but they somehow tried against Pellegrini? Was the league stronger the year Leicester won it? I assume teams didn't give up in Peps first season since he finished fourth? Have teams tried against us at any point in the last 8 years then?

Jesus christ mate, at least the posters before you tried to make a little bit sense
 
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FeedTheGoat said:
Yes but you just said we won the league that year. How can I trust anything you say when you state something so untrue as fact. And then you follow up with more baseless drivel? We would have won it sooner with Pellegrini? Based on what, please tell me? Because he beat Kiev, scraped past PSG and went out on a whimper against Madrid while almost bottling 4th in the league with a dressing-room he had lost?

Why didn't anyone try in the 100 point season, but they somehow tried against Pellegrini? Was the league stronger the year Leicester won it? I assume teams didn't give up in Peps first season since he finished third? Have teams tried against us at any point in the last 8 years then?

Jesus christ mate, at least the posters before you tried to make a little bit sense
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I didnt say you won the league that season I said you were the league champions that season which you were.

Pelegrini had you going in the right direction when you sacked him having got you to your first Champions League Semi and wouldnt have taken another 6 years and £1bn of players to just get you to a step further and another season and 300m after that to win it.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
I didnt say you won the league that season I said you were the league champions that season which you were.
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No we weren't. Winning the league in 2013/14 does not make you the reigning league champions in 2015/16. Is there anything else that is not true what so ever you would like to add? Just type out 115 charges and call it a day

And to answer the bit you edited, no Pellegrini didn't have us going in the right direction at all. In fact his three seasons with us is the perfect example of starting very well and then slowly declining. We went from having a clear style of play to that morphing into give the best players the ball and hope they do something individuelly great. We were also stagnating massively in the top games, something we had been very good at under Mancini.

You are just wrong on this
 
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