That idiot Bostin Lloyd on now 
PED's| Russia banned from Paralympics 2016
- Thread starter FC Ronaldo
- Start date
I know the rule, which is why I keep saying there isn't a credible reason to have given him the exemption. If 'exceptional circumstances' constitute waivering the rule in order to bolster a fight card to accommodate a fighter who is clearly suspect, the rule appears to be quite tenuous and definitely didn't do much for the UFC's credibility.
Where is it outlined in the UFC's anti-doping policy that it's in place to avoid 'tactical retirement'? It no doubt serves that purpose, but thinking it's that alone is an interpretation of the rule. Again, if anything, it makes sense to apply it to him. He's nothing like a new fighter because he was present during a period where cheating was clearly a prominent part of the sport's culture. If you think you deserve to be exempt from something because you didn't agree to it, why are you competing? Every fighter deserves to be scrutinized, and the prevalence of cheating in sports only reaffirms that point. There's no logic to preferential treatment or whatever you want to label it.
As for the 'exceptional circumstances', I've gone over my thoughts on that above. If he didn't make the cut in time, that's not USADA's problem, that's the UFC's problem. So, like Raoul said, they have to deal with the consequences of that, although I'm firm in my belief that it could have been totally avoided to begin with.
I'm not particularly that bothered about the entire thing. I just don't buy the exceptional circumstances presented, and certainly not that he's a prime candidate for such an allowance.
Putin whining about political interference in sport. No, it's state-sponsored cheating, which is a sporting matter. Ban Russia now please.
He's a moron. At this rate, I can see this thing spilling over into WC2018.
If you're talking about countries other than Russia, I doubt many have a government-led doping system.
There can be no excuse to allowing Russia to compete.
People claim that athletes who are clean (IE: haven't been caught...) should be allowed to compete. And Normally I'd agree, but when the entire tree is rotten - due to state-sponsored doping - you have to view the athletes as fruit from the poisoned tree.
Athletes from other countries, who for years knew and claimed the Russians were cheating while regularly losing to them - medals, prizes, sponsorship - deserve to compete without seeing those serial cheats around them.
After the trouble caused by Russian fans at the Euros it's becoming increasingly difficult to justify hosting the WC there in 2018. This adds even more fuel to the fire in that respect, don't reckon FIFA will have the balls to strip them of it but for fairness sake and perhaps more importantly for safety, they really should not be having it.
I don't know why you're making such a big deal about it. My point is they are doing more than most other sports, which is blatantly true, as anyone who is following the sport closely would know. A lot of people don't so it's no surprise they might not know. I don't know whether you just don't want to admit to having used a bad example or are desperately trying to ignore the fact that football, tennis and some of the other big sports are terribly shady when it comes to doping. Either way let it go.
Reaffirming my stance because you keep replying with an argument I'm not into isn't really making a big deal out of it. Ironically, if you stop replying, it won't be a 'big deal'. Like I said, if you think current measures constitute taking a 'thorough look within', good for you. The sheer prevalence of doping and inability for sports to truly comprehend or address how truly widespread it is isn't always easy to come to terms with. Yep, sports are pretty dirty.
LOL.
Every single major country participating and having success at the Olympics, be it winter or summer is doping and cheating to the absolute maximum and lying about it to the maximum.
If Russia has a culture of lying and cheating, what do we have here in the good ole US of A? If they have it, we invented it.
The USA is the number 1 doping country in the world, by far. US Track and Field has been covering up for athletes for as long as doping has been endemic in track and field. Carl Lewis, pissed hot in the Olympic trials before the 88 games. Ben Johnson, Carl Lewis and Lindford Christie were all dirty, Christie was caught later, Lewis was caught before, and Johnson caught at the Olympics.
Then we can move to the 90's and early 00's with Balco, that wasn't just balls deep in Track and Field with people like Marion Jones, but was balls deep in the NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB and who knows what else.
The difference between cheating in Russia, and cheating in the USA and the rest of the west, is that the Russians lack the sophistication to carry out the degree of cheating we do, on their own. We've got free market capitalism cheating yeeehaw, and it's great. They don't, so they run it through a state sponsored program. All it takes is one whistle blower, and their house of cards comes tumbling down. Here, it's so decentralized and actually ingrained in the culture of sports itself, that it's far more difficult to clear it out, because you bust one ring, BALCO, and guess what, there are 20 more behind it you've not heard of.
Cheating in Russian sports is systemic. Cheating in the US sports is endemic.
Massive difference between state sponsored doping vs individuals who dope, which is the entire point of the Russians getting banned. If this story were in US terms, it would be like the federal government commissioning the FBI and other intelligence agencies to engage in sample swapping subterfuge to ensure that the government gets all US athletes on PEDs so they can win for the sake of national pride.
You want to know why? Lesnar has no plans to ever fight again. This was a one off. The UFC knew it was a one off. Lesnar came back, juiced to the gills. The UFC knew he was juiced to the gills. Gave him the waiver, and knew he would probably piss hot.
I haven't followed the rest of the conversation or the argument between you and the other guy, but this is obvious. Lesnar came in, juiced up, and was only going to fight once. He got his 2.5 million dollar payday. Mark Hunt made more money than he has made in any fight he's ever had, probably more money than many of his fights combined, and Lesnar passing or failing didn't matter, because he's not coming back, and he is effectively retired. Any penalty is irrelevant.
Not sure what your point is here. He was juiced to the gills as Hunt suggested, was tested and caught. The system did precisely what it was intended to do.
You mean like the Federal Government feeding money to a federal agency, and that agency was using money to run a sports team, and then that sports team was involved in a major doping program?
I get the difference between state sponsored, and not, but if you think in the US it's the individual at the highest level, you're crazy.
I don't know what level you played sports to, or if you even played them at all. I played to a college level, and even at that level, doping, specifically steroid use was widespread. This isn't a case of one guy knowing a guy who sells gear behind the Golds Gym. This is a case of devoted laboratories working on next generation shit, in contact with elite tier athletes, giving them the opportunity to get in on the absolute newest, latest, most undetectable shit. BALCO was not a one off. BALCO is the model for how this works in the USA. Is it state sponsored? Nope. It's so much worse. It's hidden, it's secret, it's compartmentalized, and they are using the absolute latest technology, driven by free market innovation to stay miles ahead of doping controls.
Anti-doping is losing, always will lose. They are the equivalent of sticking their finger in a hole in the dam. They are always reacting, and they are always chasing. They are typically testing for stuff, that the elite athletes stopped using years ago. Occasionally someone gets sloppy and doesn't move onto the next thing fast enough, or doping control catches a break and momentarily catches up. It's when this happens, that you see a glut of athletes caught, or a superstar go down in flames. However, that doesn't stop the process.
Our doping is more sophisticated, it is culturally ingrained, it exists at virtually every level of competitive sports in ever increasingly pervasive levels.
Cheating is cheating, whether the government is involved, partially involved, complicit by inaction, or completely innocent. Russia was stupid about what they did, but to pretend like cheating and lying is some particular Russian trait is idiotic. Unsophisticated in their approach is a much better statement. They haven't figured out how to hide government corruption in plain sight like we have either
The point is, it didn't matter whether he was on anything or not. He was never going to fight again anyways (I'd be floored if he came back again). In short, he had nothing to lose by fighting juiced up. If he got caught or not didn't matter to him, because I don't think he ever intends to fight again. He came back, got a W and is dropping the mic. So yea, the system caught a cheater, but the cheater didn't care, and the cheater doesn't care about the consequences, and the company in question knew he was going to piss hot, or had a very strong inclination that he would, so they waived the pre-fight testing to get him in the door, in the ring, to put asses in seats, to sell PPVs, and since they sold the company, there is no fallout for them. They are running to the bank with Brock Lesnar PPV money, and whatever happens after, they don't care.
You mean like the Federal Government feeding money to a federal agency, and that agency was using money to run a sports team, and then that sports team was involved in a major doping program?
I get the difference between state sponsored, and not, but if you think in the US it's the individual at the highest level, you're crazy.
I don't know what level you played sports to, or if you even played them at all. I played to a college level, and even at that level, doping, specifically steroid use was widespread. This isn't a case of one guy knowing a guy who sells gear behind the Golds Gym. This is a case of devoted laboratories working on next generation shit, in contact with elite tier athletes, giving them the opportunity to get in on the absolute newest, latest, most undetectable shit. BALCO was not a one off. BALCO is the model for how this works in the USA. Is it state sponsored? Nope. It's so much worse. It's hidden, it's secret, it's compartmentalized, and they are using the absolute latest technology, driven by free market innovation to stay miles ahead of doping controls.
Anti-doping is losing, always will lose. They are the equivalent of sticking their finger in a hole in the dam. They are always reacting, and they are always chasing. They are typically testing for stuff, that the elite athletes stopped using years ago. Occasionally someone gets sloppy and doesn't move onto the next thing fast enough, or doping control catches a break and momentarily catches up. It's when this happens, that you see a glut of athletes caught, or a superstar go down in flames. However, that doesn't stop the process.
Our doping is more sophisticated, it is culturally ingrained, it exists at virtually every level of competitive sports in ever increasingly pervasive levels.
Cheating is cheating, whether the government is involved, partially involved, complicit by inaction, or completely innocent. Russia was stupid about what they did, but to pretend like cheating and lying is some particular Russian trait is idiotic. Unsophisticated in their approach is a much better statement. They haven't figured out how to hide government corruption in plain sight like we have either
You answered your own point here. Is it state sponsored, nope. Its quite obvious that various entities within free societies may choose to dope - from athletes, to athletic clubs who sponsor athletes, to other groups. But that's not state sponsored doping - its individuals and in very few cases organizations doing it, and is a million miles away from any sort of moral equivalence from an entire authoritarian dictatorship requisitioning the services of its intelligence services to execute and cover up a vast state sponsored program.
If anything they just wanted to save the card after the McGregor fight got yanked and in case another fight had to be cancelled (as in Jones/Cormier for example). They hardly needed the money as 200 didn't draw as much as 198 did.
As 'the other guy', I'll say that this certainly fits with the idea that the UFC seriously let itself down. Silly buggers.
I wonder if Putin's warning of a 'schism' in the Olympic movement was aimed at the IOC. He must have greased so many IOC palms. The IOC will do whatever they can not to ban Russia IMO.
Wouldn't surprise me if the same methods that got them the 2018 WC were used with the IOC.
I would be more surprised if it didn't happen than if it did.
The IOC seemed to have cleaned up its act since the Salt Lake City vote, although you never know for sure.
I know one IOC member who simply believes blanket bans are wrong and that you shouldn't take away the right to compete from an athlete who wasn't caught doing anything.
I also suspect the IOC would be worried about Putin causing other countries to boycott the games. As if Rio 2016 needs any more trouble.
So the IPC have just made a mockery of the IOC. Brilliant.
i have doubts about every sport i like. i don't even watch the T de F anymore. track/field , hockey , football etc.