Paulo Dybala

@Invictus So you’re saying this wouldn’t work ?

-Mart/Rash—-Sancho
————-Dybala
——-Pogba—Ander/McTom
——-——-Fred

The false 9 in the diamond we’ve been playing is where I had him penciled in. ?
 
Wallez said:
Dybala is an absolute world class player, and I think we should be in for him if Juventus wants to sell for a reasonable price. We would get a decent 4231 setup:

Pogba - Fred
RW - Dybala - Rashford
Lukaku
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Ole has used Pogba deeper, but it seems that he wants to use him as a 10 or the most advanced midfielder in a three. If that is the case, then we need a deeplying playmaker to partner Fred, who we can mould into more of a ball winner.

Neves, Kroos, Verratti, Rakitic, Pjanic, etc should be the type of player we should be targeting.

To me, a double pivot of Fred and Neves, for example, would be a good pair, in my opinion. The both are dynamic and would provide a foil for Pobga.

I do think we need a versatile attacker, along with a right winger, though. This means, if Pogba drops deeper, then we can put that versatile attacker as the attacking midfielder.


Lukaku
Rashford Pogba Right Winger
Deeplying Playmaker Fred

Lukaku
Rashford Versatile Attacker Right Winger
Pogba Fred
 
He would do well in Pochetino system as a replacement for Eriksen.

Dybala - Ali - Son
Kane

He is not an out and out winger and will drift inside and deeper similar to Eriksen. Even though, I believe he will be much better as a 10 in this system, he can still do some harm as an inverted wide player for Pochettino.

At United, we need an out and out wide right midfielder who has elements of dynamism in his play since we are not in the market for a maurading right back. So Sancho or Odoi makes more sense for players we need at United right now. Pogba, is our 10 1/2 and in that role, he is a much better player than Dyabala.
 
MadMike said:
You literally can't talk about anything else besides Pochettino huh?
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:lol: of course I can and I have multiple times already. I just felt with the jewelry box not warchest as the media claims given to pochettino this summers, Dybala would be a good way to spend some of that income. Whereas with United, I feel he will be somewhat a luxury for us and not needed.
 
Why would they sell him if he's good enough? Doubt they're desperate for cash.
 
The Nani said:
@Invictus So you’re saying this wouldn’t work ?

-Mart/Rash—-Sancho
————-Dybala
——-Pogba—Ander/McTom
——-——-Fred

The false 9 in the diamond we’ve been playing is where I had him penciled in. ?
Click to expand...
It could work, yes — Sancho doesn't have a striker's profile, and is a proper winger/playmaker...so he wouldn't impede Dybala as much as someone with a striker's instincts would, and the whole scheme won't be too narrow/direct. Though putting aside the mechanics of that specific front 6, we should make a broader inquiry regarding the False 9 role and what it entails because a lot of United supporters' interpretation is a bit flawed (in the Félix thread as well as this one).

A False 9 is just a decoy center forward — his play is based on half turns or having his back towards the opposition goal while retaining a lot of goal threat (think Totti under Spalletti). Starts high up but withdraws to disrupt the opposition's marking shape and create room for the wide attacker and winger (who take their positional cues from the False 9). So essentially this (starting as a striker and ending up as a deep-lying forward):
1.png
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For some reason, folk conflate that with this attacking midfielder role which is actually the reverse because the player's game is based on facing the opposition goal and creating (like Deco under Mourinho). Starts deeper and mostly creates for the strike-duo, and sometimes they peel wider and he enters the box (which is vastly different to how a False 9 operates):
2.png
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The big issue here is that if you have a forward playing as the attacking midfielder, you need strikers who are perceptive enough to drag their markers and create room for the attacking midfielder because his instinct is to enter the box and score — which could be an issue because natural movement and positional awareness is one of Martial's weakest traits and he'll be expected to initiate a lot of moves. If United want to play a diamond with Martial and Rashford as the strikers, we should target an attacking midfielder like Eriksen, or Havertz/Zaniolo in the younger bracket, not a forward. Very rarely does a mix-and-match work. Fàbregas in Spain's extreme possession oriented 4-6-0/4-2-3-1 formation is one of the few success stories — and that happened in very specific circumstances in a team that had an All-Time great ethos/synergy/movement/build-up.
 
He's a Rooney type player for me. A striker up top or support striker. Not a winger or a cam. He's not been great on the right this season, 5 goals and 4 assists, that's mata numbers, and Juve are looking to replace him with João Felix. I'm not against signing him in principal as he's a quality player and he'd be an obvious Lukaku upgrade but anyone looking at him as some Christian eriksen type of creative player needs to look at his stats for the last few seasons because they just don't support that interpretation. He'd be competing for a starting berth up front, not giving us a creative supply line from the right wing or attacking midfield. You could probably play him effectively as a split striker if we had a creative player behind them. Personally I think he'd cost as much as Sancho and wouldnt solve our right side issue or provide another creative outlet in the middle of the park, our two main problem areas imo.
 
Freak said:
—————DDG—————
————Defence————-
—————Rice—————
——-Eriksen—Pogba——-
Sancho—Dybala—Rashford

:drool:
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You're looking at maybe 350m there for those four new players before full backs and centre back signings. Imo we can only afford dybala on top of what's already neccessary if we sell Lukaku for good money.
 
Invictus said:
It could work, yes — Sancho doesn't have a striker's profile, and is a proper winger/playmaker...so he wouldn't impede Dybala as much as someone with a striker's instincts would, and the whole scheme won't be too narrow/direct. Though putting aside the mechanics of that specific front 6, we should make a broader inquiry regarding the False 9 role and what it entails because a lot of United supporters' interpretation is a bit flawed (in the Félix thread as well as this one).

A False 9 is just a decoy center forward — his play is based on half turns or having his back towards the opposition goal while retaining a lot of goal threat (think Totti under Spalletti). Starts high up but withdraws to disrupt the opposition's marking shape and create room for the wide attacker and winger (who take their positional cues from the False 9). So essentially this (starting as a striker and ending up as a deep-lying forward):

For some reason, folk conflate that with this attacking midfielder role which is actually the reverse because the player's game is based on facing the opposition goal and creating (like Deco under Mourinho). Starts deeper and mostly creates for the strike-duo, and sometimes they peel wider and he enters the box (which is vastly different to how a False 9 operates):

The big issue here is that if you have a forward playing as the attacking midfielder, you need strikers who are perceptive enough to drag their markers and create room for the attacking midfielder because his instinct is to enter the box and score — which could be an issue because natural movement and positional awareness is one of Martial's weakest traits and he'll be expected to initiate a lot of moves. If United want to play a diamond with Martial and Rashford as the strikers, we should target an attacking midfielder like Eriksen, or Havertz/Zaniolo in the younger bracket, not a forward. Very rarely does a mix-and-match work. Fàbregas in Spain's extreme possession oriented 4-6-0/4-2-3-1 formation is one of the few success stories — and that happened in very specific circumstances in a team that had an All-Time great ethos/synergy/movement/build-up.
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Yeah. the natural movement of Pogba toward the left and Sancho to the right makes it a very appealing prospect. That said, Bruno Fernandes might work just as well or better in that setup if I'm honest.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Hasn't Dybala been mediocre for like two years now?
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No? Did you just pull that out of your pooper?

He had 22 league goals last season, the highest scorer for Juventus and 3rd highest in the league behind Icardi and Immobile who both had 29. Not bad for SS playing behind Higuain (who had 16 goals). Across all competitions he had 26 Gs in 46 games and 7 assists. And whoscored gave him an average rating of 7.77 for the season, which is his highest ever.

By all accounts he had been on the ascendancy till Ronaldo got signed and Juve's system effectively became a Moyesesque "let's cross it in the box for Cristiano". He's only 25 and entering his peak. He just needs a system that gives him the freedom to play around the box rather than as a winger where Allegri often plays him.
 
MadMike said:
No? Did you just pull that out of your pooper?

He had 22 league goals last season, the highest scorer for Juventus and 3rd highest in the league behind Icardi and Immobile who both had 29. Not bad for SS playing behind Higuain (who had 16 goals). Across all competitions he had 26 Gs in 46 games and 7 assists. And whoscored gave him an average rating of 7.77 for the season, which is his highest ever.

By all accounts he had been on the ascendancy till Ronaldo got signed and Juve's system effectively became a Moyesesque "let's cross it in the box for Cristiano". He's only 25 and entering his peak. He just needs a system that gives him the freedom to play around the box rather than as a winger where Allegri often plays him.
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It was a genuine question, so cheers for answering :D Bunch of guys at work were talking about him this morning, they agreed he was a one season wonder
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
It was a genuine question, so cheers for answering :D Bunch of guys at work were talking about him this morning, they agreed he was a one season wonder
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He is. He’s overhyped. He’ll fail here guaranteed.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
It was a genuine question, so cheers for answering :D Bunch of guys at work were talking about him this morning, they agreed he was a one season wonder
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14/15 - 13g 10a in 35 (at Palermo age 21)
15/16 - 23g 9a in 43 (first season at Juve)
16/17 - 19g 9a in 48
17/18 - 26g 7a in 46

Tell the guys at work they are talking shit. The guy has been a serious baller for years. One of the top 5 support strikers in the world in that timeframe, only clearly behind Messi and Griezmann (and Ronaldo if you count him as such).
 
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MadMike said:
14/15 - 13g 10a in 35 (at Palermo age 21)
15/16 - 23g 9a in 43 (first season at Juve)
16/17 - 19g 9a in 48
17/18 - 26g 7a in 46

Tell the guys at work they are talking shit. They guy has been a serious baller for years. One of the top 5 support strikers in the world in that timeframe, only clearly behind Messi and Griezmann (and Ronaldo if you count him as such).
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We don't actually play a support striker any more though do we? I'm not sure there's be much support for going back to that now either.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
He's 25 now and has played 19 games for Argentina, one of which was from the bench. So far he's scored once for them. I can hear alarm bells....
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Wut? Where did you pull that from? 8 out of his 19 games have been second half sub appearances. He has only played 2 full 90 min games for Argentina

That's not to say that he's been good for them, but you can say the same about most of Argentina's forwards. A team with Messi, Aguero, Higuain, Di Maria and recently Dybala has really failed to deliver the type of football and goal gluts you'd expect. Never mind the results/trophies.
 
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Scholsey2004 said:
We don't actually play a support striker any more though do we? I'm not sure there's be much support for going back to that now either.
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I don't know. I have no idea what Solsjkaer has in his mind for next season, do you? There doesn't have to be any support for it, the fans don't get to choose the management does.

We were in for Griezmann a couple of seasons back under Mourinho, though god knows if that was Mou or Ed and what the plan was to do with him if we got him.
 
If we can't get Sancho, signing him and selling Martial or Lukaku, then buying a cheaper right winger could work.

Dybala would be our false 9 or just play in a partnership up top with Rashford, whether it's 3-5-2, 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 or a diamond.

We're so desperate for a forward who wants the ball played into his feet and knows how to play that way that I'd be excited this could help get the best out of our callow strikers.

And if Dybala wants to be the man, we might be his best option.
 
Cliche Guevara said:
I firmly want both. Felix as tip of diamond and Dybala as one of front two. Although it would all be pretty fluid.

Ideally Jovic would be the other for me.
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Strange as Dybala is for sure an attacking midfielder while Felix has been playing as main striker for Benfica and scoring lots of goals. He's played 18 times as a striker, 4 times coming from the left and 0 times as an attacking midfielder.

Dybala has at least played an attacking midfield role 6 times this season scoring 2 goals and 1 assist.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
We don't actually play a support striker any more though do we? I'm not sure there's be much support for going back to that now either.
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But we do. We've been playing with an inverted front three for months. We won't sign a better player for that half 9 role than Dybala.
 
We need an explosive winger that has pace and the times I have seen (admittedly not many) I don't think he fits in this category.

But he is left footed, and this is an important attribute especially we have Mata and Lukuka potentially leaving us this summer.
 
I think he's a cracking player but signing him would worry me that we'll be without an effective right wing once again as he'd no doubt be played in that Mata role. Would much prefer we sign a proper right winger first.
 
giorno said:
He doesn't have Messi's vision, nobody does. He has much better vision than Robben, better passing, more creative. Robben was a destroyer, the attribute that made him so special was his dribbling.

Dybala has been used as a creative midfielder by Allegri in two of his 4 seasons there. He's also really really good at link-up play, combinations, and even shielding the ball
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I really don't know how to paste screenshot here but I would have you check Griezmann, Robben, Neymar, Isco Messi, Dybala key passes history on whoscored and you would realise the likes of Isco, Griezmann, Dybala have similar stats. The point is neither of these three are visionary players. They are more of goalscorers except Isco who's neither one nor 10. If want to know, I don't also want Isco here in our club. I really don't fancy all these SS with tunnel vision masquerading as no 10 in our club.

Neymar has the highest out of them as he should have been hence put your claim that no one has the vision of Messi to mute. Neymar's vision is as good as that of Messi and I have seen it several times. Also Robben's vision is far better than that of Dybala or Isco. it's just that he's hardly deployed in the SS role for Bayern although I could recall the CL final against Dortmund when Bayern coach swapped Muller and Robben roles on the pitch and allowed Robben to operate through the middle in the second half, Dortmund couldn't handle his linkup play, throughballs and movement throughout compared to the Muller they handled easily in the first half. I think he assisted one of the goals scored by Bayern. Likewise at the world cup where Van Gaal played him as a SS and he was terrific in the role. I really don't know why Bayern didn't constantly deploy him as a SS but I think they had to cater to the need of Muller.

Back to Dybala, if he makes the step up to a pure striker, I wouldn't mind him but as a SS, I even rate Griezmann's linkup play than him from what I have seen from both Dybala and Griezmann.

I would rather we bring in Felix that Juve are interested in, than Dybala because of two things, he's more visionary than Dybala and can also lead the front line solely, whereas, I don't know if Dybala can lead a line alone. I think juventus have the same thought as mine because Felix's attributes would complement Ronaldo who loves to be a shadow striker behind an imposing hold up play striker such as Mandzuki. Felix is quite capable of that because his hold up play looks good and he's quite imposing as a striker. Also, If Juve is to deploy a 433 setup with a false 9 striker to complement Ronaldo, ala Benzema at Madrid, Felix is even more visionary than Benzema. Hence, I would want Felix here rather than Dybala.
 
Can't he play as RW?

He could end up being a bargain if he improves. He could fullfil his potential with us.
 
Can't play wide. Not a 10 (most top sides don't play a 10 anyway) and not good enough up top. There's a reason Juve want rid. No thanks
 
Could see him just being another player that doesn't quite fit anywhere and looks good from afar but disappointing when they arrive in the PL.

Not exactly damning but the few times I've watched him in the CL he's done nothing too.
I'd swap him for Lukaku in a heartbeat though.
 
What's his attitude like? We should not purchase one more player that's out for themselves
 
Don’t think we will get him but i am very surprised so many are saying no to this guy?!

An attacking midfielder of really good quality aged 25?
 
Which formation (with wingers) suits him the best?

I'm not a fan of diamond formation.
 
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