Right. He kept Morata and Llorente on the bench and was about twice as good but is still not good enough for the almighty PL.
Paulo Dybala
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Right. He kept Morata and Llorente on the bench and was about twice as good but is still not good enough for the almighty PL.
I doubt Dybala would bang in the goals like Cavani do and Cavani offers a lot more than just goals.I wouldn't be surprised if Paris Saint-Germain decide to target him in the summer. You could argue that Neymar + Dybala + Mbappé seems excessive on paper, but if they strike the right balance in terms of chemistry - that's an era-defining trident of players that have definite Ballon D'Or potential. Paris Saint-Germain have deep roots with the Serie A with the likes of Ancelotti, Leonardo, Ibrahimović, Thiago, Cavani, Verratti, Motta as well as their current General Manager Jean-Claude Blanc: who was previously at Juventus.
Could play as a False 9 of sorts, instead of Cavani leading the line:
If they have issues with UEFA's committee, selling the likes of Cavani and Draxler to raise ~€100 million+ will alleviate a lot of the concerns. Maybe even Guedes for a big fee after his displays for Valencia.
Dybala, Neymar, Mbappe looks flashy and good on paper and potentially great long time, but I think they should stick with Cavani right now. Their front three is great as it is.
Once again you really need to understand what I said and mean. He's valued at 150m+ which in my book is considered more than his actual value. I think he's worth 80m (MAX). So you telling me that he kept Morata and Llorente on the bench means nothing.
Clearly, I could only understand what you said and not what you mean when what you said does not equal what you now say that you mean, while you disregard the facts that I presented as meaning nothing despite meaning absolutely everything in the context of what you previously said.
Do you understand what I say and therefore also mean (because what I say actually reflects what I mean)?
Dybala said (when he was at Palermo) that he would swim across the Mediterranean to go to Barcelona. However, he was playing for Palermo back then. Now he plays for Juventus and actually beat us in the CL last season, so he might have changed his mind.
He said at the start of the season and Juventus and Barcelona are at the same level.
http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Serie...ncubo-ora-sogno-rivincita-2101062989197.shtml
He also said in another interview that he and Messi cannot play together because they are essentially the same.
If they did play together however:
Dembele - Dybala - Messi
Would be the most logical solution. Messi on the right wing and Dybala as a false 9 (a position he played at Palermo).
It's not just about scoring a ton of goals when you consider the grand scheme of things. Cavani will turn 31 in February, so Paris Saint-Germain might be interested in signing a younger player to grow with the cycle of Neymar and Mbappé. And Dybala is fairly likely to develop into a 0.75+ GPG scorer when you consider his current age and scope for improvement in front of goal, Cavani and Dybala's relative scoring rates in their early 20s in the Serie A, as well as the fact that the former has scored 13 goals in ~1000 mins. this season - which isn't far from latter's 15 in ~1000 mins. The rate could well be a blip, but then, it could also be the sign of Dybala evolving into a more consistent goalscorer given that he's converting chances at an unprecedented clip.
Aside from the goals - Dybala is also more creative and a better dribbler than Cavani in terms of creating space and opening up the game, and could help bring Neymar and Mbappé into dangerous final third positions as a False 9. And while Cavani works very hard as an out-and-out striker, Dybala has good tactical awareness as regards pressing and counterpressing as a shadow striker, so some of the loss of physicality and industry up front could be negated by Dybala's nous and sui generis style.
Overall, it's the potential fluidity of the Neymar-Dybala-Mbappé triumvirate in terms of positional interchange that's so enticing, a heightened sense of chemistry and clicking as a unit notwithstanding. If Sarri can get the likes of Insigne-Mertens-Callejón to play some of the most breathtaking football in Europe, imagine what can be achieved with Neymar-Dybala-Mbappé in a possession oriented setup with precise positioning and game-building by the rest of the cast.
That said, if Guedes delivers on his potential based on the irrepressible showings at Valencia, Paris Saint-Germain could even hand the keys of the castle to Neymar:
That puts the Brazilian in the driver's seat as a dynamic False 9 - from where he can pull the strings and orchestrate the attack. He never really got the chance to do that on a consistent basis at Barcelona apart from a game here of there given the presence of Messi:
If UEFA doesn't step in and stop the PSG spending spree then we may as well just give them the titles. They already had a team capable of reaching semi-finals of the CL and now have added Neymar and Mbappe and potentially Dybala. At least Man City is subtle about violating FFP with 200m here and 170m there not PSG they just flagrantly thumb their noses at UEFA.
Very good, sir.
So Pogba has put a video and a picture up of Dybala and he, I believe for Dybalas birthday but the hashtag was #AgentP.
I’d absolutely love if we ended up going for Dybala in the summer. Hopefully the club has the will to actually make a deal and that Agent P can pull it off.
I’d absolutely love if we ended up going for Dybala in the summer. Hopefully the club has the will to actually make a deal and that Agent P can pull it off.
make it happen #AgentP. doing the lord's work
excellentThink he might go barca and they might offload messi.
Barca's CEO mentioned today that messi singed a very good deal. Also, given his service to barca, I think he earned the right to decide himself when to leave Barca.
I still think that, if the Catalonia thing happens, and Barca can't play in certain competitions anymore, Messi might be forced to leave. Other than that, I don't see the guy leaving.
Yeah- this guy over AG7 all day every day
We don't have the team for a guy like him, if i were him i'd be a long way away for joining us. i'd love to have him here obviously, he's a fabulous player.
More like a managerial change away.
More like a managerial change away.
Of course. He just signed a new contract though so it would be a fee close to 200m I assume
I'm sure he said once that he doesn't like the PL, he's Barca bound IMO.
Juventus play a similar brand of football to us, if anything even more pragmatic with the three at the back. Like Griezmann, he’s established playing in systems similar to ours.
I’d prefer him to griezmann too, but no chance he’s coming here. Nothing to do with us personally, but simply because he’s made it obvious he has no interest in playing in the EPL and has his eyes set on Barca.
They don't, they play more with the ball than we do.
Simply put, take Dybala out of that Juventus side and they will look average. He’s their only proper attacking threat and is the focal point of all their attacks. They keep the ball better than we do (which isn’t surprising, we have never really been a possession based team), but in terms of style if you were to take Dybala’s ability to create something out of nothing out of their team, I don’t think you’d see much difference in styles.
Juventus are hardly a full blown attacking side, so joining a pragamatic team (who btw is only really defensive for a handful of games over the whole season), shouldn’t really bother him.
Like I said though, probably Barca bound.
They'd still keep the ball more and play with attacking intent most of the time. We have games where we barely get out of our half, they don't which is my point.
That’s all down to the relative strengths of the squads. They’re still a pragmatic side, so that style obviously isn’t so bad to him, which was the original point.
Juventus have a squad who have made champions league finals in the past few years, with a complete squad. They’ve got a rebuild coming up soon with ageing stars, but to assume he’d be reluctant to join us when we are still a work in progress and we play defensively for literally a handful of games a season at most isn’t correct imo. If he hated that style he wouldn’t have joined Juve, or would have opted to leave, he would hardly have been short of offers from more attacking sides.
Didnt he imply that Pogba made a step backwards?
It's a lazy argument, take Messi out of Barca, Ronaldo out of Madrid, Hazard out of Chelsea and Pogba out of United and their play will go worse. As of now Juventus have played better football than United for years. And even besides Dybala they have proper midfielders in Marchisio, Pjanic, Bernardeschi and very good forwards in Higuain and Mandzukic.
They dominated Barcelona and Monaco in the CL last year, how are they a pragmatic side?
How does that have anything to do with what I've said? Take Messi out of Barca and they'll still play a posession based style, take Ronaldo out of Madrid and they'll still play a fast transition, counter-attacking style etc. All teams have styles and to claim Juventus aren't pragmatic is wrong. Take Dybala out of Juventus and they are still a pragmatic team, only without one of the most important players when considering what's made their attack tick all season so far. It'd be the same for Barca with Messi, that doesn't change the fact that their style of football is still more positive than Juventus'.
Also I really don't see why you're listing their players to me, literally has nothing to do with the argument at hand. Players don't define systems. I'm not arguing Juventus aren't a better side than us, nor am I saying they haven't played better football than us, what's questionable is to say that he'd be reluctant to join a pragmatic team when he's currently playing for one.
They've played better and more effective football, evident by the states of both clubs over the past few years. That being said, the mentality was pretty similar, defensive stability first and foremost. For all the talk of people mocking us for needing to rely on individual brilliance this season, it'd be interesting to see what they'd think with Dybala's ability to muster up something out of nothing. They're a pragmatic club, only have done it much better due to better planning from their board and having a much better squad over the past few years.
Juventus absolutely have been better than us for years, but that's not what was being discussed.
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Barcelona dont really play that possesion based style fwiw, since there midfield has declined. Much more dangerous on the break.
Juventus dont play pragmatic football, I have no idea where you get that from. They play with attacking intent nearly every match and are a team that loves to dominate and usually tend to even when they face other big teams, performances like we did vs Liverpool or Chelsea you would rarely see that at Juventus unless they were overpowered by their opposition. They have a good defence but arent pragmatic.
You essentially answered your own question there. They only do it when they are overpowered by their opposition, which as I've already explained is due to the relative strengths of the squads. We don't play defensively unless we are up against a team that can match us as well.
Claiming they are not pragmatic is nonsense, go watch them against Barcelona last season, they won the game due to Dybala's individual brilliance and their ability to defend in numbers and break on the counter.
Chelsea, Juventus, Atleti are all top teams but are still pragmatic teams. They're all teams who always prioritise defence first and foremost. Juventus create more than us and are more capable going up against the big teams, you're right. That's because they are capable due to the strength of their squad. They've been in CL finals over the past few years, whilst we as a club were still trying to create a squad strong enough to qualify for the CL. We also dominate the teams below us.
Napoli, City, Dortmund etc. are attacking teams, Juventus are simply not in that category. In terms of strength they are, but in terms of style of play - hardly. Certainly not free-flowing attacking football, at least.
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He said that back in 2016. Since then, he's fallen out with Allegri, and changed his agent. The general vibe I get from Dybala is that:
1. He doesn't believe that he can win the Champions League with Juventus.
2. He's not going to Barca because he doesn't play well with Messi. Their style is too similar. Sampaoli acknowledged this as a reason to why Dybala is not a starter for Argentina.
No you are reading what you want to read, I said they dont dominate when they face teams who overpower them. Like Real did in the final, but in nearly all big matches prior to that one they showed as much attacking intent as the other team. Be it Monaco, Barcelona, and even Bayern when Morata was still there.
If you genuinely believe their performance at Barca was attacking football, we obviously have very different opinions on attacking football. To me it was a great execution of breaking in numbers and counter-attacking football.
Also your point on Madrid basically sums up my point that they're pragmatists. They were overpowered so adopted a more restrictive style. That's exactly what Chelsea, Atleti or even I daresay we would do. Not something you'd see from a Man City or Napoli.
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They scored two goals early and then let Barcelona dictate play and sat back, which I wouldnt call pragmatic but they were simply playing to their advantage.
About Real, how many teams can dominate against Modric, Kroos, Isco? They were playing above their league as we did against Barcelona in the final 2011, it's a final. After Real had them it would make no sense to keep it open and concede even more. Juventus arent as attacking as City and Napoli but surely not as pragmatic as Atletico. No way.
They adopt to their opponents and situation, something I'd define as pragmatic. Let's agree to disagree on the first match and move onto the second game at the Camp Nou. It was a defensive masterclass and was Juventus killing the tie off from start to finish. That's something a pragmatic side would do. Do you think a team like Barca, City, Madrid, PSG, Napoli etc. would go to a team they have already seen they're capable of beating in the first leg and killing the game off, rather than trying to play? Especially when they have such a safety net? I don't see it myself.
I never said they were as pragmatic as Atleti, simply that they were a pragmatic side. They have a stronger squad than Atleti imo, so as a result are more capable of being forward thinking, but a true attacking side wouldn't have sat back against Madrid. Pep is a true attacking manager and his inability not to adopt has been his shortcoming in Europe over the past few years, as an example.
They're more attacking than us (whether that's down to the manager, or the strengths of the squads, or both is your opinion) but I'd still classify them as pragmatic. They adopt when they need to and have since I remember almost always prioritised a solid defence first. If you disagree ultimately it's your opinion, but I don't think dominating teams you should be dominating is enough to claim a team is attacking. We do the same and you'd be laughed at if you called us anything close to an attacking side on here. We are also capable of going to big teams and getting results and playing somewhat well (Spurs this season). Away from home is a completely different carton of eggs, similarly to Juventus at the Camp Nou last season, didn't give Barca a single gap of space to attack.
What did you think PSG did at the Camp nou after they beat Barcelona 4-0?
Ofcourse they play to their advantage and adapt to the situation, thats why a team like Napoli got beaten twice as they only think attack attack attack. Pragmatic sides like Mourinho's United and Atletico, they go into a match and immediately approach it like dont concede, go for a 0-0 draw, concede one less than the opponent and hope to scrape a draw. It's bo comparison really. Between attacking football and pragmatism are loads of space. Juventus are probably somewhere in the middle.
I was talking about the PSG I've seen from this season (so far), not the one from last season. Yes though, if I was to reply to your point, I'd say what PSG did that day was adopt a pragmatic approach.
PSG didnt go all out attack vs Bayern fwiw.
Even Juventus' loss vs Barcelona did year they didnt play pragmatic, they started more dominant and attacking than Barcelona but Messi's quality pulled them through.
Fair enough - but whether or not PSG are pragmatic is a completely different argument. From the little I've seen of them this season they looked like a very aggressive attacking side.
My idea of a pragmatic side is probably different than yours. I consider a team who's capable of adopting a different approach depending on the circumstances a pragmatic side ala us. We dominate teams if we are capable, but also play more restrictive if it calls for it. Atleti are another example. Teams like City and Napoli although may change little things here and there, their approach is mainly the same regardless of opposition - all out attack. Napoli essentially played against a more expensively assembled version of themselves, where they were weaker in arguably every position yet still played their normal game. Juventus have shown they're more than capable of playing defensive and nullifying opponents (as they did against Madrid last season and Barca at the Camp Nou etc.), which is why I consider them a pragmatic side. You're right that they're not as pragmatic as we are or an Atleti though.
Think that's fair, it fits the true definition of pragmatic more than what I'd consider pragmatic.
No we don't have a guy like him in the team.
I think that in the long term a Dybala deal might suit us better than a deal for Griezmann. He'd outlive the Mourinho era and still be at his peak.
However, I believe that in Mkhi Mourinho has the right type of player but not the right quality. Griezmann I feel would suit that role better than Dybala, simply because I think that he has better pace on the ball would be more effective at allowing us to transition from defence to attack in an instant. It's something he's used to from playing with Atletico. Dybala is, as far as I can tell, alot more effective when playing closer to goal, and I think that he'd have a harder time than Griezmann, when asked to produce when he's often receiving the ball around the half-way line.
However, I believe that in Mkhi Mourinho has the right type of player but not the right quality. Griezmann I feel would suit that role better than Dybala, simply because I think that he has better pace on the ball would be more effective at allowing us to transition from defence to attack in an instant. It's something he's used to from playing with Atletico. Dybala is, as far as I can tell, alot more effective when playing closer to goal, and I think that he'd have a harder time than Griezmann, when asked to produce when he's often receiving the ball around the half-way line.
I'd say Jose is more thinking along the lines of Soler with Perreira going the other way. Maybe add Pulisic and Tierney over the summer and Jose will have finished his rebuild
----------Matic---Soler-----------
Pulisic-----Pogba-------Rashford
----------------Lukaku
----------Matic---Soler-----------
Pulisic-----Pogba-------Rashford
----------------Lukaku
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