controversially I often thought that about Ronaldo and it didn't matter as he was so bloody good at what he did
Paul Scholes
- Thread starter Suedesi
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controversially I often thought that about Ronaldo and it didn't matter as he was so bloody good at what he did
That's like comparing a squirrel to Ferrari or the sun to a human.
Er, what? (scratchesh his head)
That's just the most recent example that comes to mind, he's been pulling that sort of shit for a decade. It's a brilliant bit of play, harder than you think I reckon and if Rooney had done it we'd be frotting our widgets. Maybe I exaggerated just saying Berbatov but it really doesn't affect my argument, Rooney, Torres, Arshavin, Ryan Giggs, we're talking players with some of the best technique in the world here.
I just said scrachesh
hee hee
hee hee
Ok, it was "good"."decent"
That's not decent play 'on the turn', like a striker spinning his marker, that's taking the ball on the half-volley on the run, while spinning and changing direction completely, fantastically difficult combination of skill, ball sense and co-ordination, not to mention imagination, a bit of play you will very rarely see.
Torres and Drogba maybe, I dunno but you're talking some of the best players in the world here so the point remains.
My point still remains. You're using one youtube clip to prove your point though. Gerrard's technique, even in a general sense, is not the best in the premiership, let alone world class.
"To be fair, virtually no-one's got better technique than Gerrard."
Kranjcar, and (dare I say it, for I am inviting Scholesy) Modric are both as good as Gerrard technically. Fabregas is miles ahead, Berbatov, Torres, Robinho......
Talking about me or my brother doesn't make your points any stronger . I hope this helps.
You Stupid Mother fecker.
Rubber Chef's words. Nevermind.
But yeah, I agree. Given the choice of one, I'd rather have Drogba than Gerrard. I think Drogba's probably the best striker in the world.
No we're not. Drogba is not brilliant technically. Physically a monster though. Gerrard is similar to him in that respect.
We're talking about the best footballers there. Some are technically brilliant whereas others are gifted more in the less technical areas.
Perhaps. Ronaldo's skill and athleticism was on such a level that it masked any sort of deficiency in reading of the game.
What he had, as well as the top strikers in the world as well, is a different kind of intelligence. The ability to know how a piece of play will pan out before it happens, and to position himself to receive the ball in a dangerous area.
A lot of the players we're discussing are still young and will improve with experience.
It was just the most recent, I'm not going to trawl YouTube for clips, I was about to describe it and I thought I'd see if I could find it. I'm not claiming that one bit of skill proves everything I'm saying.
There are players in the PL with terrific technique, Fabregas, Robinho, these are some of the best players in the world, it proves nothing about Gerrard's technique. Besides, Gerrard's is better than most of theirs, there seems to be a belief at large that 'technique' is confined to dinky little passing moves through midfield.
Kranjcar? Madness
Pun aside, I dont think Gerrard has been doing it for the last 10 years or so.
He did start well partneringHamman in the middle but soon lost his way though. Benetiz made him play as a forward and from then on he is more of an improved footballer. Gerrard is a match winner, alright but not a great footballer technically. He can cross the ball, pull out some through passes etc but he was never consistent on these facets apart from scoring goals.
The consistency is very rarely a fault of technique, it's about decision-making.
Drogba is brilliant. Barring the best two or three centre backs the rest just can't handle him at his best. For me he's maybe just behind Eto'o over the years because the latter tends to score on the big occasions and is strong and skillful.
I just think he's the kind of player who when on form can hurt any team. Even a solid defence on their game can struggle with him in that mood. The way he troubled troubled Barca last season feeding on the little service he had was awesome. Yes, i know his finishing let him down but how many premiership players would have had Barca look that brittle at the back with his team having so little of the ball?
this is back to the 'luck' discussion.
'Rarely' is clearly not true ... the better the technique the less liklihood of cocking up
Having the best technique doesn't make someone the best player. It's an important attribute, but not the only one.
I'm not saying Kranjcar is a better player, but in tight spaces he's extremely skilful. He can dribble around defences, hard to knock off the ball and plays the game with such graceful elegance in his gait that it makes it look easy. From a purely aesthetic POV, Gerrard always looks like his going to fall over his own feet. Kranjcar looks like he's caressing the ball.
Gerrard's better overall though.
I'm not saying Kranjcar is a better player, but in tight spaces he's extremely skilful. He can dribble around defences, hard to knock off the ball and plays the game with such graceful elegance in his gait that it makes it look easy. From a purely aesthetic POV, Gerrard always looks like his going to fall over his own feet. Kranjcar looks like he's caressing the ball.
Gerrard's better overall though.
Rooney at times finishes with such ease but he doesn't do it all that often. Is his finishing technique as good as Ruud then?
IMO you have to judge these things on the basis of what players actually do. It's impossible for us to judge whether the player's decision making is off or ability is.
I'm talking about Gerrard, not in general. There's little he can't do technically on a football pitch, when it goes wrong it's usually because he's picked the wrong option. This is easy to see, as in the example above - he hits a long ball, it goes in the right place, just where he wanted it, but at the wrong time, the player hasn't made the run, or is marked too tightly, or is offside, or is Dirk Kuyt. The fact is the guy doesn't know when's the right time for a simple square ball and when's the right time to split the defence.
It's nothing to do with luck. It's his fault for not making the right decisions.
TBH producing moments of technical brilliance consistently is not just down to decision making.
This.
Correct. It takes decision-making and technique. And Gerrard has the technique, but not the decision-making.
Sometimes you can see a bad decision being made, but that's a seperate thing.
It's why I don't rate Robbie Keane, you can see him thinking, only to make the wromg pass or hold on too long.
I don't see that as a factor in a discussion on technique.
Sure, sometimes you can. But if a player gets a long pass wrong more often than he gets it right it's hard to keeep putting that down to decision making. He's probably just okay at it after all. If another player hits those same passes with ridiculous consistantly it's obvious he has tramendous tenchique.
Flaws in Gerrard as a midfielder
Vision: Unlike Keane, Scholes or Fabregas he cannot read the game and play in right areas of the pitch and goes on chasing the ball. How many times has any one seen Gerrard involved in quick interpassing, retaining the ball and probing for openings?
It all has to do with decison making and reading the game, Gerrard simply cannot cut the mustard much on that aspect. If not for being the next blue eyed bob of English football after Sheerah, refs would've caned him for all his two foooted homicidal tackles. Its for the reason he looks pedestrain for England as he can offer nothing defensively whenever he was made sit back and defend like Makelele. Vision and reading the game goes hand in hand irrespective of whether a midfielder is defending or attacking.
Passing I've posted this content few times on this board
Gerrard to Torres in his first season that goal against Chelsea, a delivery hit in the general direction of the forward without guile or precision - Torres had to strain to control the ball first before slotting it past the keeper. In contrast compare the delivery in the CL final that Rooney dragged it from our box and hit a long ball to Ronaldo that dropped at his feet which Ronaldo crossed to Tevez. This badly lets down Gerrard whenever he runs along with ball, even his six yard balls in the attacking third takes two or three touches to control, as many pointed out he plays the game like a 100mph sprinter.
Matchwinner: He's one though, he can hit some amazing crosses and with his wonderful striking technique on his right foot can notch up great goals. Can it alone make a great player. I dont think so.
To be fair comparing Gerrard with Scholes is almost like comparing Roberto Carlos with Zidane, it looks silly.
Vision: Unlike Keane, Scholes or Fabregas he cannot read the game and play in right areas of the pitch and goes on chasing the ball. How many times has any one seen Gerrard involved in quick interpassing, retaining the ball and probing for openings?
It all has to do with decison making and reading the game, Gerrard simply cannot cut the mustard much on that aspect. If not for being the next blue eyed bob of English football after Sheerah, refs would've caned him for all his two foooted homicidal tackles. Its for the reason he looks pedestrain for England as he can offer nothing defensively whenever he was made sit back and defend like Makelele. Vision and reading the game goes hand in hand irrespective of whether a midfielder is defending or attacking.
Passing I've posted this content few times on this board
Gerrard to Torres in his first season that goal against Chelsea, a delivery hit in the general direction of the forward without guile or precision - Torres had to strain to control the ball first before slotting it past the keeper. In contrast compare the delivery in the CL final that Rooney dragged it from our box and hit a long ball to Ronaldo that dropped at his feet which Ronaldo crossed to Tevez. This badly lets down Gerrard whenever he runs along with ball, even his six yard balls in the attacking third takes two or three touches to control, as many pointed out he plays the game like a 100mph sprinter.
Matchwinner: He's one though, he can hit some amazing crosses and with his wonderful striking technique on his right foot can notch up great goals. Can it alone make a great player. I dont think so.
To be fair comparing Gerrard with Scholes is almost like comparing Roberto Carlos with Zidane, it looks silly.
I agree with you, I'm probably just inarticulate.
My point is though, you have to be of a certain technical level to reproduce technical brilliance consistently. Scholes doesn't just do it because of how good he is in his head. He does it because he has mastered the use of his technical gifts. The way a Giggs has for example. Which for me separates the the technically great/brilliant from the good.
For me people like Gearrd are technically gifted but aren't technically brilliant. Just technically good.
Spot on.
THE example above , would you stop with the youtube clip, we've all seen Gerrard play. Have you seen the airshot gif - will that sway you?
I have no more points to make, my eyes tell my brain you are wrong. But who knows you may be right, I just think if they were stripped down to just technique Scholes would have more.
(re the luck - I was referring to a previous thread and how it descended into semantics)
I neve had any reservation in admitting Robbie Fowler had a great technique even though he was a Scouser, Torres is another one.
As for Gerrard, he's a match winner for Liverpool in Benetiz style of playing the attack around him but lacks the flair to raise above a system... the difference between very good players and truly great ones.
As for Gerrard, he's a match winner for Liverpool in Benetiz style of playing the attack around him but lacks the flair to raise above a system... the difference between very good players and truly great ones.
Thank you for reminding me about that, it made me smile.
Sorry, the two are not equivalent. Any player, no matter how good, will occasionally have a spastic episode. Even Maradona.
Whereas not many players can do what Steve Gerrard did there, and that's just a fraction of what he's capable of.
No it's something that's rare to him too, he hasn't got a great touch and great feet, it's a rarity for him to do that. He's all about power and making the bulge net. You're mistaking Gerrard for Cristiano who is great will the ball at is feet.
They are as relevant as each other, neither are common in Gerrards game.
Yet you called him a world class player in the past in my 'world class' thread
Agree with Vijay.
spastics
Scholes still keen to impress
United stalwart looking to increase goal tally
Last updated: 29th September 2009
Manchester United veteran Paul Scholes remains determined to impress his manager and is not looking for the chance to put his feet up.
Scholes, who turns 35 in November, has been enjoying a renaissance in form in recent weeks and ran the midfield in Saturday's 2-0 win at Stoke City.
He has been used on a more rotational basis by Sir Alex Ferguson over the past couple of seasons and has also occupied a deeper role in the team.
However, the former England international still has the bit between his teeth despite the club's occasional desire to wrap him in cotton wool.
"You still want to impress, but the coaches are always asking how you feel and whether you want to take a day off here or there," said Scholes.
One area that Scholes is looking to improve is his goal tally, having scored only six times over the past two years.
He added: "My goals have dried up a bit in recent years and I'd like to get back scoring a few.
"When I was younger, I used to get forward a lot more than I do now.
"I think the manager expects me to stay in the middle of the park nowadays and pass to the players who can go forward and score.
"I'd still like to get forward every now and then and chip in, but you just have to play however the manager wants you to play."
Scholes also revealed that he is going to explore the possibility of going into coaching when he eventually calls time on his glittering career.
"I'm going to give coaching a go and see how it goes," said Scholes. "I'll probably start looking at that in the next couple of weeks and see how I feel doing that."
United stalwart looking to increase goal tally
Last updated: 29th September 2009
Manchester United veteran Paul Scholes remains determined to impress his manager and is not looking for the chance to put his feet up.
Scholes, who turns 35 in November, has been enjoying a renaissance in form in recent weeks and ran the midfield in Saturday's 2-0 win at Stoke City.
He has been used on a more rotational basis by Sir Alex Ferguson over the past couple of seasons and has also occupied a deeper role in the team.
However, the former England international still has the bit between his teeth despite the club's occasional desire to wrap him in cotton wool.
"You still want to impress, but the coaches are always asking how you feel and whether you want to take a day off here or there," said Scholes.
One area that Scholes is looking to improve is his goal tally, having scored only six times over the past two years.
He added: "My goals have dried up a bit in recent years and I'd like to get back scoring a few.
"When I was younger, I used to get forward a lot more than I do now.
"I think the manager expects me to stay in the middle of the park nowadays and pass to the players who can go forward and score.
"I'd still like to get forward every now and then and chip in, but you just have to play however the manager wants you to play."
Scholes also revealed that he is going to explore the possibility of going into coaching when he eventually calls time on his glittering career.
"I'm going to give coaching a go and see how it goes," said Scholes. "I'll probably start looking at that in the next couple of weeks and see how I feel doing that."
He probably can interchange with rooney once a while as rooney likes to drop deep into scholesy's position from what i've seen. I think his goalscoring ability hasnt been really polished for quite a while now due to not being given the chances to attack the goal more.