Paul Pogba
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Well, the team went to shit when he went down. So he has a helluva bargaining chip.
Treatment of one of our own
at least some people are arguing for Pogba. Our fans treat our players like shit online all the time but they aren’t a safe bet to get support from the fanboys so everyone stays quiet in most other cases. You’ll find me sticking up for players who I think get unfair treatment from our fans but Pogba has been his own worst enemy here.
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Nah, how about you tell me the part of my post that was wrong, just like I told you the parts of yours that were made up.
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I don’t have the time to spend a whole day arguing with you on here about each and every game for you to try and justify us making Pogba one of the highest paid players in England to stay and that’s how In depth you want to go with this. I watch all the games and I can and do admit when he’s had a good game. As I also said one player of the month award since 2018 says it all about his last few years here. That’s the club and the fans fault for not backing him though. If Pogba was at city doing this and we’d KDB we’d be pissing ourselves laughing at them
Can’t wait for him to get back healthy and in the team. Really miss him when he’s not playing and I think that’s all to see.
He lacks that desire that the likes of Keane had which I do think stops him from becoming one of the most dominant central midfielders in the league.
But his touch, ability to switch the play and his creativity and one touch play makes me cry out for him when you see the lack of impact our midfield has had over the last few weeks.
He lacks that desire that the likes of Keane had which I do think stops him from becoming one of the most dominant central midfielders in the league.
But his touch, ability to switch the play and his creativity and one touch play makes me cry out for him when you see the lack of impact our midfield has had over the last few weeks.
Well you do, because you have. In fact, you have time to argue about everything but the detail and fact behind your nonsense.
Your one POTM since April is a nonsense metric too. For a start, this is a player who was voted into the PL team of the season in 2019, yet you want to argue that he hasn’t played well because he hasn’t has more than one POTM award since April. In that case, straight question - are you saying he hasn’t had a good month since then? If you are not, what exactly is your point?
You have made up shite all day, for hours, ranging from phantom salary demands to performances, and when challenged you have not to say.
Hand on heart - how did you feel when Pogba scored A screamer against Fulham and we went top? Did you celebrate? I can’t help but feel it must have been an awkward moment for you. Of course, you would have been happy we went top, but surely in your heart, you’d have preferred it was someone else who got the winner?
no man, I celebrated. Don’t mean he should get a new deal. Did you celebrate when Sanchez scored against city?
Means nothing yet you also go on and on talking in hypotheticals like you know the ins and out of Pogba and calling anything brought up that’s unconfirmed lies. I don’t just believe the first thing I read but when I see the same stuff happening over and over and you have quotes from the player the agent and his family saying he’s not settled then it’s fair to say he’s not settled and if he’s not settled by now he should probably go. You know absolutely nothing beyond that like the rest of us but I’m glad you like defending him. I like defending Fred. More power to you. Have a good evening
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Same as all of us I imagine, it's about fecking time.
What is?
no man, I celebrated. Don’t mean he should get a new deal. Did you celebrate when Sanchez scored against city?
Means nothing
Yea, because I don’t dislike Sanchez. In fact, I can’t even remember him scoring against City to be quite honest.
I’m sure you celebrated for a second instinctively, then felt confused as to your emotions for a minute, as you obviously couldn’t go on to the Internet and seem to be happy about PP afterwards. After all, that very game is amongst the games you have, now that the dust has settled, described as ‘yea he scored a goal, but didn’t fit our team play’ - which is how you summarised that entire spell for him.
Haha. Don't you agree that he'd expect more than De Gea?
As I said when’s he good I can admit it. The same problems remain. My bad about Sanchez goal v City too. It was an assist for a Pogba header. Legends.
Hopefully all the talk about negotiations is not true and we are letting him go asap.
Ali Dia was too quick replying!
I know yeah....we need to find a deep lying playmaker to play in a double pivot who scores 25 goals a season and creates 20 assists and pushes his team mates to produce massively less than they did last season. I’m Sure they’re two a penny.
I’d be delighted if he signed up again, providing we actually add to our team with quality in the summer.
You’re not convincing anyone
Well, I have no idea. Anything I say on this matter wouldn’t be based on much, as money (salary) has never been a contentious topic in his career thus far. There have been very few articles, comments about his attitude towards money for me to use as a starting port to try and speculate as to what his wage demands could be.
From what I HAVE seen, my suspicion is that if he really wanted to leave and go to a certain club but had to accept less/same money than he’s on to do so - he would take it. By all accounts, he took a lesser deal to go to Juventus because he felt he would play there, there were never any reports when he was coming here about back and forth about personal terms - and any talk of him leaving since he arrived here has never been discussed from a perspective of salary, so I’m inclined to believe he will do he feels is best for his career. I read on the caf when Sanchez joined by those who like to villainise him that he would demand a pay rise because ‘you know Pogba with his ego would probably demand to be the highest paid player’. There’s been nothing to suggest that happened either.
But of course, I ultimately have no idea.
well to be fair it’s been mostly yourself and Rozay jumping to his defence anytime anyone has the audacity to speak up so you would say that. We don’t have to agree. I was as excited as anyone when we got him in 2016. I even wanted him to sign a new deal until I saw himself and Bruno play together and realised there wasn’t much chemistry. We are slow but direct and defensively suspect. Then his agent started up again. There’s nothing wrong with a fresh start instead of just pumping more money into players that don’t quite fit. I don’t think our owners make that call anyway so it’s a few more years of Pogba. So be it.
I posted in Pogba’s performance thread, I went through his games from December to end of jan. I think it was 11 consecutive games where he played between well, really well and brilliant. He made big contributions. As is always the case with Pogba he’s viewed with a negative slant. Wasn’t even in the PL 8 man shortlist for player of the month in January....while Bruno got it in December without even playing well in 3/4 of the games. He’ll probably win feb too. Sadly for Pogba the dye is long since cast. It’s always been a negative slant. It’s forgotten that he’s actually been a good player for us in a mediocre era.
Just saw this bit - and it isn’t really about you, I apologise. It’s more a case of defending our player. Hand on heart, I think most people’s dislike for Pogba is an irrational one, which is why I try to probe or challenge the reasoning so we can distill it down to the facts only. Once we do that, then either I’m wrong with my facts, or we can call it what it is which is an irrational dislike IMO.
When we get past the ‘I have nothing against him, it’s simply because he only plays well x amount of times’ by going through the games and seeing how many games x really is, or ‘I only say I’d rather this player because PP is inconsistent’ - so we look at the consistency of the other player and so on and so forth - we get to see what is left. And what is left, to me, is ‘okay then, I just don’t really like him’, and I think a lot of that is down to commentary around him that paints him as some guy who thinks he’s Billy Big B*llocks, only cares about himself, flashy git or whatever, and I think those views are formed lazily. And I think the minority need to try to correct it, because nobody else will, and is how lazy stereotype and opinion is formed. I just want people to look closer. I speak often that I think people form opinions quite lazily in general, we just swallow what we’re fed.
You’re on some agenda, Ole has quoted as saying he played him too soon after Covid, didn’t realise the effects it would have on him....then took him out while he worked on his fitness. Once he was fit his performances were brilliant.
I didnt mean Like for like goals/assists but his overall contribution is a few levels below bruno
Goals and assists are mainly what is so great about Bruno. I’m not sure his performance levels over 90 minutes are consistent at all.
Youre missing my point. Bruno’s output is hugely on goals/assists but pogba can be equally influential through controlling the midfield and creating opportunities with defence splitting passes etc.
His contribution to the overall team performance is nowhere near Bruno’s.
It’s all good. I’ve enjoyed our exchange and you have definitely made me think and thats the point of all of this
I’d be doing the same thing in the Fred thread but you’re right, heavy research beyond standout stats isn’t really my forte. I usually go on my gut after watching a player for a season or twoIf he stays and he keeps up the December/January form till the end of the season then even his biggest detractors will have to hold their hands up and say they got it wrong at this juncture. But I have to say it’s quite easy defend Pogba the talent. If he goes of course he’ll still be good and you can always say look at the idiots who didn’t want him at our club and if he stays and we don’t kick on again we can blame the owners, his teammates, each other and the manager etc etc.
He’s always going to do class stuff because he’s a really good player technically but I’m just in doubt about whether that’s enough in this lineup if we include Bruno. We need someone to take control in midfield going both ways. If Pogba would consistently track and tackle his man and move the ball around a bit faster he’d probably be my favourite player as basic as that sounds. Just more than a few things he’s done defensively and the constant non stop agent/transfer stuff make me think wtf is he at, is his heart even in it and it makes me not want him to stay here if he’s unhappy and inconsistent behind it all. No doubting his ability to pass a ball long or crack a nice shot from the edge of the box. I thought he was brilliant against Liverpool in the cup. He won the majority of his 50/50s and you have to do that if you want to dictate the tempo. More of that more often and I’d be happy for him to stay here.
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If that were the case he wouldnt be getting the goals and assists. Hes certainly infinitely more consistent than Pogba.
If we really want Varane it should be a swap for Pogba. Don’t want to give madrid any money as they will splash it on Haaland
imagine Madrid ended up with Pogba and haaland and we get Varane. That would be a sad day for muppets and non muppets alike
It’s all good. I’ve enjoyed our exchange and you have definitely made me think and thats the point of all of this
If he stays and he keeps up the December/January form till the end of the season then even his biggest detractors will have to hold their hands up and say they got it wrong at this juncture. But I have to say it’s quite easy defend Pogba the talent. If he goes of course he’ll still be good and you can always say look at the idiots who didn’t want him at our club and if he stays and we don’t kick on again we can blame the owners, his teammates, each other and the manager etc etc.
He’s always going to do class stuff because he’s a really good player technically but I’m just in doubt about whether that’s enough in this lineup if we include Bruno. We need someone to take control in midfield going both ways. If Pogba would consistently track and tackle his man and move the ball around a bit faster he’d probably be my favourite player as basic as that sounds. Just more than a few things he’s done defensively make me think wtf is he at, is his heart even in it and it makes me not want him to stay here if he’s unhappy and inconsistent behind it all. No doubting his ability to pass a ball long or crack a nice shot from the edge of the box. I thought he was brilliant against Liverpool in the cup. He won the majority of his 50/50s and you have to do that if you want to dictate the tempo. More of that more often and I’d be happy for him to stay here.
Indeed, it’s been a good joust
I don’t think he’s been the most consistent player myself, but I think the aura around him is far bigger than just performances. First off, I don’t think he has as many poor games as is made out, and as a result, I think he often gets treated like playing poorly or being up and down is exclusive to him. Bar a handful of bery consistent players like Fred and Shaw - he has no more bad games than anyone at the club in recent years to me.
Anyway, whatever happens with him in terms of his future, I’m genuinely not fussed in and of itself. My fear is that we will replace him with a worse player, and perhaps only then some may appreciate that he’s not as bad as is made out. Hand on heart, I think if we sold Pogba and got a new CM who came in and performed exactly the same for us as he has - he would not be considered a flop or an unsuccessful signing. I just think some just want/need to move on from Pogba specifically, more than his football. I admit it has been draining.
If I was certain we could get Frenkie De Jong or Saúl - then absolutely, I’d happily let Pogba go if indeed that isn’t what he wants. But I don’t want to see our midfield weakened just out of spite. Just so we can throw our toys and say ‘I hope he never plays for us again’. We need quality. Pogba isn’t the best defensively I agree, and IMO, I would have preferred us to play with 3 proper midfielders anyway - his defensive weaknesses don’t always work in a midfield two. But then it’s a conundrum for me as I think of many players who could do a better defensive job but probably don’t have the invention he has, so we lose something either way. Even De Jong doesn’t pass like him, but he still can open a game up by taking a man on. Same for Saúl.
That said, I think the backlash from Mino’s last comments changed something in him (so thanks for your contribution there!) and I think it’s fair to say that his defensive work-rate has picked up since then.
Whatever happens to him, I just want what is best for the team. If that is without him, I’m going to need better than Scott and Fred to be convinced. I’m not emotional about this stuff, and I think a lot of the negative sentiment around him from reds is largely emotional. If he does leave, he leaves - it’s football, but while I think anyone can think what they want of him or any other player, I think the smear campaign and painting as some sort of United-hating monster is unfair. Even if he is or isn’t good enough, I think he loves the club and isn’t some disruptive, scheming snake as is portrayed. When you think of it objectively, why wouldn’t he love United anyway? He has spent most of his life here, the club has looked after him from he was a boy, he’s playing for a manager who likes him a lot and has known him since a boy, and is paid handsomely (as you have pointed out!). Even if he goes, like - it’s clearly not personal, it’s just football, and if he stays, it doesn’t appear to be kicking and screaming either. He’s clearly cool here, has long term friends here too.
I think if a lot of fans found him more ‘likeable’, they wouldn’t think he’s been half as bad as they do.
They will likely pursue Mbappé I would think.
I don’t think so, goals and assists aside. His overall performance fluctuates through most games.
Indeed, it’s been a good joust
I don’t think he’s been the most consistent player myself, but I think the aura around him is far bigger than just performances. First off, I don’t think he has as many poor games as is made out, and as a result, I think he often gets treated like playing poorly or being up and down is exclusive to him. Bar a handful of bery consistent players like Fred and Shaw - he has no more bad games than anyone at the club in recent years to me.
Anyway, whatever happens with him in terms of his future, I’m genuinely not fussed in and of itself. My fear is that we will replace him with a worse player, and perhaps only then some may appreciate that he’s not as bad as is made out. Hand on heart, I think if we sold Pogba and got a new CM who came in and performed exactly the same for us as he has - he would not be considered a flop or an unsuccessful signing. I just think some just want/need to move on from Pogba specifically, more than his football. I admit it has been draining.
If I was certain we could get Frenkie De Jong or Saúl - then absolutely, I’d happily let Pogba go if indeed that isn’t what he wants. But I don’t want to see our midfield weakened just out of spite. Just so we can throw our toys and say ‘I hope he never plays for us again’. We need quality. Pogba isn’t the best defensively I agree, and IMO, I would have preferred us to play with 3 proper midfielders anyway - his defensive weaknesses don’t always work in a midfield two. But then it’s a conundrum for me as I think of many players who could do a better defensive job but probably don’t have the invention he has, so we lose something either way. Even De Jong doesn’t pass like him, but he still can open a game up by taking a man on. Same for Saúl.
That said, I think the backlash from Mino’s last comments changed something in him (so thanks for your contribution there!) and I think it’s fair to say that his defensive work-rate has picked up since then.
Whatever happens to him, I just want what is best for the team. If that is without him, I’m going to need better than Scott and Fred to be convinced. I’m not emotional about this stuff, and I think a lot of the negative sentiment around him from reds is largely emotional. If he does leave, he leaves - it’s football, but while I think anyone can think what they want of him or any other player, I think the smear campaign and painting as some sort of United-hating monster is unfair. Even if he is or isn’t good enough, I think he loves the club and isn’t some disruptive, scheming snake as is portrayed. When you think of it objectively, why wouldn’t he love United anyway? He has spent most of his life here, the club has looked after him from he was a boy, he’s playing for a manager who likes him a lot and has known him since a boy, and is paid handsomely (as you have pointed out!). Even if he goes, like - it’s clearly not personal, it’s just football, and if he stays, it doesn’t appear to be kicking and screaming either. He’s clearly cool here, has long term friends here too.
I think if a lot of fans found him more ‘likeable’, they wouldn’t think he’s been half as bad as they do.
Another great post. In a way if we’d written our last few posts first I’d be like I totally agree with this guy up to a point but my first choice would be we should get something new going, a new dynamic, i know I can come on a bit strong when challenged but I don’t hate Pogba, honestly. I only care about the club and want what’s best for United. If that’s Pogba back to top form and motivated with a dm in behind then that’s good enough for me. It’s worth a try if his heart is truly in it. We didn’t really have much luck with that over the last few years until Ole came in.
I just wish I could see that the owners have some kind of grand plan for the team but the fact the Pogba situation has rumbled on for so long makes me doubt that they are on top of any of it (apart from the youth) My order of preference in a perfect world would be
1 get the money for him and reinvest in other starters.
2 sign him up and give it another go!
3 let him stay till the end of his deal and go on a free again
4 sell him and the owners don’t reinvest.
I'd love to have the optimism of people who believe the Pogba of the last few months is the one we'd end up with for another four years or whatever.
that’s what I was arguing today. Surely the past is far more likely to repeat itself than any new dynamic occurring. He is a cracking player though and his top level is almost impossible to replace but I still think maybe just try something different while we have the chance. I think a totally solid fast passing, hardworking midfield with a lot more creativity from the wings and a bit more from the fullbacks would make us less predictable in the buildup and harder to score against. that could be another way for us to go.
Go with that and stop arguing as if its fact. Its not a cop out just word your arguments better. If its your opinion and not “As everybody knows” then say so
Far, far less than Pogbas.
I will hold my hands up and admit we have missed him much more than I thought this past month