Do you think we wanted to sell some players, but it was significantly more difficult because they are on wages that no other club in the world is going to pay? Think of Jones, Lingard, Pereira, possibly Martial? Our net spend could be significantly lower.
Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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I think relatively the likes of Jones, Lingard, Mata, Henderson are on salaries far beyond their relative counterparts at other clubs to name a few. I think we would be able to spend even more, if those salaries were significantly lower or if it was possible to sell them to PL clubs for decent fees. But that's incorrect.
For someone that likes to patronise people your typing is appalling.
Speak for yourself, I’m Ed’s mate
I'm happy to be educated! Please correct me
English is my secondary langauge so I'm certain I make the odd mistake.
You are worthy to be praised Tom.
Ah, I feel like a sh*t now then. Sorry, didn't realise. You write it very well, considering it's not your first!I'm happy to be educated! Please correct me
English is my secondary langauge so I'm certain I make the odd mistake.
Varane is here, Ronaldo is here.
Who in their right mind would leave? unless if they don't get a lot of playtime.
Who in their right mind would leave? unless if they don't get a lot of playtime.
We look at Barca as a prime example!
Genuinely.. where is a player going to find a better “project” right now?
Only major clubs that guarantee trophies at the moment are those in poor leagues (Bayern, PSG)
United have as big a chance as anyone of winning the top trophies over the next 4 years. I sense once we win one trophy, others will follow.
Only major clubs that guarantee trophies at the moment are those in poor leagues (Bayern, PSG)
United have as big a chance as anyone of winning the top trophies over the next 4 years. I sense once we win one trophy, others will follow.
Nope, they shouldnt care either! It all doesnt matter.
Have you read any of our financial statements? Any of theirs?
In what way are we in danger of becoming like Barcelona?
Ah, based on what? Surely not facts anyway. Ah sorry, I saw who wrote this so I shouldn't bother.
Yeah it's probably fair to worry about it to some degree but at the same time it is nothing that we have any control over. Also no matter how much we all agree that the Glazers are absolute cnuts, they are not likely to overstretch our finances.
I love watching Pogba play so I'd like him to sign. With that said Bruno is better and Pogba is not the type of midfielder who suits playing with a number 10 so it's fine if he leaves and is replaced with one who does.
What facts can you use to predict the future?
This is fantastic news.
Our net spend being lower doesn't translate to not having holes. As far as I know Pereira isn't on a big wage and you are not replacing Lingard or Martial cheaply, if you consider the fact that they both signed extensions as starters. So we have two issues, you judge things without taking into account context and you jump to conclusions that are not actually obvious.
If we get exact numbers then yes. At this point only factual information we get is total wages spent by the club, which is reported by the club.
Just curious; is there a wage amount that would make you go ‘Hang on a minute, no, not at that price’ (not really about the money but rather the existing underlying personality issue it would further reveal)
Absolutely essential. C’mon United let’s get this deal sorted with him and let him fully concentrate on supplying assists
Put plainly, are there many / any other teams that actually want him or can afford him while at the same time are there many more exciting prospects in world football than our project? No. Even though we've not won a major trophy for a few years, we now have a very exciting team and there aren't any major steps up from United right now. He'd be dumb to leave.
Ok I'll stop being a jerk.
I have to go to lunch, but the very short answer is that while Manchester United have certainly been affected by the Corona pandemic, the Deloitte reports say that Manchester United sits with a wage bill of around 56% (up from 50%).
The cost of a player is amortized over the entire contract length and is budgeted depending on structure of payment (common payment terms for large transfers is 3-5 years). But if we assume that West Ham says "Ok 4 years is fine" The clubs budget will look something like this (summarized) signing fee, annual salary, <other related player costs> (year 1) (year 2) (year 3) - All equal as default unless there is a reason to budget differently. The transfer fee is agreed on as 80m paid in 4 installments of 20m over 4 years.
So the Cost of the player for year 1 is: Transfer feee + all related costs. Not 80m
The point to knowing if the club can afford a player is to look at EBIDTA. The club also has to comply with FFP. Manchester United currently has a wage budget of 56% according to the most recent Deloitte report, with the EPL clubs having to offset £500m collectively permanently from the previous fiscal year due to broadcast reimbursement.
Manchester Uniteds budget is enormous. And all players within the club are being paid by qualification within the wage structure. The wage structure is carefully budgeted and has a lot of safety margin before it risk being uncompliamt with FFP, currently we are nowhere near. A player like Phil Jones who earns £75k weekly is one of the lowest paid first team players in the club.
Martials contract is est valued at £13m a year. That accounts for about 1.63% of the 2019 fiscal income, but 2.07% of 2020. The Covid pandemic is affecting the clubs operating budgets and safety limits. Signing a new player like Declan Rice at a similar contract for 80m (just an example number) is a risk/reward calculation that the club (Glazer family) was not willing to take. There is still uncertainty around Covid and potential fallout.
Players like Juan Mata and Edison Cavani are leaving the club next year and taking big salaries with them. They do not pose any great deterrent to taking on a new contract. Juan Matas contract is reduced to £100k (down from £160k).
A player like Cristiano Ronaldo has already paid for himself through commercially licensed football jerseys before his home debut, with the club taking in an reported £13.1m in licensed shirt sales, hereby offsetting his transfer fee. Other expected income such as further mechandise sales and commercial opportunities will pay for the players salary and more, plus the potential of going deep in the CL.
A CDM, while absolutely a necessity, is a higher risk investment. Ronaldo is essentially a bank, while Declan Rice, talented as he may be, offers the investment safety of a house with a unlocked door. The frame is there but no one knows how he will actually impact the team to an absolute certainty.
Personally I believe that the team both could, and should have invested in a CDM, but I can respect that many factors come on, primarily uncertainty around revenue stream. The club took out a loan last year to ensure stability, and while that loan is not a problem, they don't want to sit with a greater short term expense than budgeted, no one likes surprises.
The club is also finally reported to be undertaking massive renovations of Old Trafford and the surrounding grounds, that money also comes from the clubs own coffers unless they plan to take up more financing loans.
The larger point I'm trying to make is that you can think of a big name signing as 2% (rounded up for simplicity) of the clubs operating budget for the next 5 years. A club like Manchester United prefers to sit at 50%, but Covid impacted everything. If they however want to, they absolutely can go out and make solid investments. The only hurdle is: Cash at hand, Cash flow, and willingness to take on more risk%.
Squad players in Manchester United to make a lot of money, but in the larger structure, they are reasonably paid compared to their teammates, which is the only comparable metric we can look at when judging what a player should be paid.
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Very good post that puts the numbers in context. Thanks for sharing.
And now he missed his lunch break. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.
Currently we arent, and Id like it to stay that way. If that means not bowing down to insane financial demands and losing a player then so be it. Im not saying Pogbas demands are that bad by the way, but you asked why some people care about what a player is paid, that is why for me.
No one said we are, but when asked why fans are interested, that’s a prime example of why.
To be honest at this stage i was relying on him leaving so we'd actually sort our midfield out. I'm fine with him staying he'd be a very good option on the left but i do worry we'll think that's the midfield sorted.
Obviously if it smashes the wage structure I wouldn’t do it, that goes without saying.
if his next contract is 400k a week I’d probably go for it IF it’s clear he wants to commit.
however if we have to do a lot of persuading and it’s clear that he doesn’t really want to be there for the next 4 years I think we’d have to think about it
but just to clarify; I’ve gone from he’s not bothered, his agent is causing trouble, he’s not going to sign a new deal so let’s sell it we can to it looks like he’s fully focused and wants to stay so let’s do it.
But not at all costs. There has to be a financial line drawn somewhere. Not for ne to say because I’m not privy to it all
If you haven't read any of the financial statements of either club, and you understand that Man United are no where near the position to end up like Barcelona - again, why do you care?
Do you only consider the worst case scenario possible in every situation?
If anything our financial position is likely to improve in upcoming years when you consider the strength of our squad being more likely to challenge for honours, plus of course the commercial impact of Ronaldo, on top of us still having fringe players to move on like Mata, Pereira, Jones etc.
Do you believe you see things the coaching staff doesn’t?
Look at the impact Ronaldo has made after one game. He needs to try and persuade Casemiro to join United too.
The thing is Barcelona issues have more to do with quantitiy of expensive and unnecessary transfers combined with squad/fringe players on big contracts but mainly the former.
What a terribly boring comment. No the coaching staff and club never make a single mistake let's not even discuss anything.
There are a fair few players on decent wages who are barely playing & probably off next year - Mata, Matic, Lingard, Jones, Cavani. Probably 500k+ there, plus one of Henderson and DDG will probably go too.
Giving Pogba 100-200k extra is probably not too crazy.
Correct, and that's why shouldn't sell, because we aren't signing 2 good midfielders (pondering over buying 1 for the last 3 seasons).
Great summary.
City, PSG, maybe Juve by next season...issue is with free agents is that they can move for less salary but get massive sign-ons (as the club doesn't need to pay a fee). The logical thing for him to do, unfortunately for us, is to wait and not commit to anything.
I don't see any of those being a more exciting project.
Pogba extension is as big a move as the Varane and Ronaldo transfers. So happy to see this.
The next step is that we start bombarding all of Casemiro’s social media accounts telling him come to United next season.
The next step is that we start bombarding all of Casemiro’s social media accounts telling him come to United next season.
Absolutely, yet once each season is finished it's back to the usual section claiming him to be 'lazy' or 'not committed' or a 'virus' or the 'Pogba circus.'
Truth is when fit he's one of our very best players and performers. Yet the narrative constantly sways in contrast to that. Something that hasn't sat right with me since the beginning.
Frankly if I'm him reading half the nonsense that get's posted about him I'd want out as well, we've been a distinctly average team for a long while and he's done nothing but his best in a squad that has not been built to even get the best from him (like they did at Juve and do for France) yet he's still largely performed well.
This is what get's me so worked up about the Pogba topic, he's grossly underappreciated unless he's getting 5 assists per game and in my opinion I strongly believe we've done very little to get the most from such a hugely talented and expensive signing. To lose him now would be a massive blow before we actually (finally!) make a move for a top DM.