[Walters_19_MuFc]

Has anyone discussed this?


Asked how Covid-19 had affected him, Pogba told MUTV: 'It's strange, it's hard to explain because you wouldn't understand.

'Even in training, I would say to the fitness coach that I feel strange. It's not me. I get tired very fast and I'm out of breath really fast.

'The first game of the season, I couldn't run. I was trying. I spoke with the manager, "I will start the game and let's see", but I was very out of breath and it took me a long time to get back to my fitness and to get back physically good.

Wow!

They say that's what Covid does to you.

 

[thepolice123]

He definitely needs more legs in midfield to help him or an extremely competent defensive midfielder to partner him. I don’t think the Pogba-McT combo has ever worked for us. Whenever they play together it feels like both of them just met during the pre-match warmups.

 

[mav_9me]

I don't think he is good enough for CM. Takes too long on the ball for me. I'd much prefer if he kept it moving. Also lacks defensive awareness in a middle 2. Don't see many places in the team for him. Maybe that was all just covid and his form will pick up.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I'm curious why Pogba was played in the double pivot when DVB was up front in the no. 10 position and Bruno was on the bench. My impression of Pogba was that he'd surely be allowed a more free, attacking role at no. 10 where he can muscle and glide past defenders to make things happen, except that Bruno is just that good and crucial to Manchester United. DVB is nowhere near as creative as Pogba and Fernandes - his game relies on a great first touch, crisp short passing, great off the ball movement and an eye for goal. I remain convinced that Pogba can play a deeplying playmaker role very well when he's on it, he has the right passing and ball carrying tools as well as vision. But DVB would have made more sense to me in the pivot role where he could consistently make himself a passing option out of the defense and move it on to Pogba or one of the forwards, allowing Pogba to be serviced further upfield and play to his strengths. DVB is also fit and mobile enough to run into the box late to present a goalscoring threat and then track back to his position if there is a turnover in possession.

Trying to give Bruno a rest was a very understandable move for me. But I was puzzled why Ole didn't reverse Pogba's and DVB's positions.

I also don’t understand why. All of Pogba best performance are his attacking performances, he never play well defensively anyway, why always play him in double pivot role? Only Ole knows.

 

[The United]

I also don’t understand why. All of Pogba best performance are his attacking performances, he never play well defensively anyway, why always play him in double pivot role? Only Ole knows.

Because he is the only one who can do accurate long range passes in the team when he wants to. And, our play involves quick breaks and counter. So, having a deep lying midfielder who can do damage from back is very good.

Ideally, having 2 player makers in Bruno (ahead) and Pogba (deep) would be insane and hard to mark both of them out of the game.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I also don’t understand why. All of Pogba best performance are his attacking performances, he never play well defensively anyway, why always play him in double pivot role? Only Ole knows.

Yeah, he only works in a double pivot when it really isn't one, when you have a left midfielder like Matuidi, or someone else dropping inside to strengthen the defensive core. As much as we'd love it, Pogba just isn't a true CM in the sense that the likes of Modric etc are, and our management should be able to recognise that, he's an attacking midfielder. And people act like being attack minded means you have to put up huge numbers which isn't the case - see Silva or Iniesta - you dont. Where Pogba lacks is A) his football brain and B) also in his move to a team which was in a bit of a mess and his non suitability to it.

 

[Shiva87]

If he can find form and fitness, he could just take us to a title with his quality. Bruno has been transformational, and Pogba could be the final link if he can perform anywhere close to Bruno's level. He definitely has the ability, but does he have the willingness to do so!

This week will be a good time for him to start showing what he can do. With Fred out of the Leipzig game, I'm sure he will start!

 

[Borys]

Because he is the only one who can do accurate long range passes in the team when he wants to. And, our play involves quick breaks and counter. So, having a deep lying midfielder who can do damage from back is very good.

Ideally, having 2 player makers in Bruno (ahead) and Pogba (deep) would be insane and hard to mark both of them out of the game.

It's good on paper but I don't remember us scoring goal that way, or even a dangerous situation.

Also, it's not true he's the only one who can do that. Maguire seems to be doing that on regular basis, Lindelof did that against Besiktas and Rashford won a pen afterwards.

To me sacrificing fluency to our midfield by forcing Pogba in, because he can hit the long range pass, is too big of a cost. And not necessary, as we've been doing well without him in midfield so I'm not sure why Ole still insists on Pogba in there. His impact on the game from deep is minimal, for both United and France.

 

[kouroux]

I also don’t understand why. All of Pogba best performance are his attacking performances, he never play well defensively anyway, why always play him in double pivot role? Only Ole knows.

Because of Bruno IMHO, since he's our best player, we have to put him in the best configuration to shine (he's earned it). Otherwise it's Pogba who would play in the advanced role of the midfielders

 

[He'sRaldo]

Because of Bruno IMHO, since he's our best player, we have to put him in the best configuration to shine (he's earned it). Otherwise it's Pogba who would play in the advanced role of the midfielders

Pogba played deep behind Lingard and Pereira, it was one of the major gripes of Ole previously.

 

[kouroux]

Pogba played deep behind Lingard and Pereira, it was one of the major gripes of Ole previously.

I'd say that's because our midfield back then was just wank. The situation was a bit different, today though, he cannot play more advanced if Bruno is there already

 

[AneRu]

Yeah, he only works in a double pivot when it really isn't one, when you have a left midfielder like Matuidi, or someone else dropping inside to strengthen the defensive core. As much as we'd love it, Pogba just isn't a true CM in the sense that the likes of Modric etc are, and our management should be able to recognise that, he's an attacking midfielder. And people act like being attack minded means you have to put up huge numbers which isn't the case - see Silva or Iniesta - you dont. Where Pogba lacks is A) his football brain and B) also in his move to a team which was in a bit of a mess and his non suitability to it.

The problem is the team we have built. We don't have a DM that can play reasonably well without another player helping out but then even Pep's ultra attacking three men midfield of De Bruyne - Silva - Fernandinho had the requisite work ethic such that the DM wasn't really isolated and they kept the ball so well, so I don't think a DM that can play behind Pogba and Bruno exists because Pogba lacks the work ethic and Bruno is careless with the ball.

However we could play a 4-2-2-2 with Pogba and Bruno as the 2 behind the strikers and a couple of DMs behind them to shore things up. AWB has improved on the ball a bit and our assortment of second strikers (Greenwood, Rashfrod and Martial) have experience drifting wide. Imo this is the only way we can get the best out Pogba and Bruno because playing the former in a deeper role is risky and takes out some of his best attributes.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I'd say that's because our midfield back then was just wank. The situation was a bit different, today though, he cannot play more advanced if Bruno is there already

Right now we play Scott and Fred with Bruno as first choice, and back then they were both available and could have played with Pogba. I agree right now Bruno is a better fit for the role, but the decision was baffling back then.

 

[Raees]

I feel like Pogba looks so leggy these days and Covid must have had some impact because he only had one take on against West Ham, so that charisma on the ball and willingness to drive with it - isn’t in his locker at the moment. He did however attempt 103 passes and complete 91 - tremendous passing performance.

Ultimately I still think he’s just not a good fit for the club and it has always been a tactical conundrum when it comes to Pogba and the first half proved that.

Second half everything just clicked nicely but it doesn’t seem like anything with a long term potential to it in terms of tactical chemistry.. just a case of players catching fire at the same time, and West Ham falling to pieces.

Still would have loved a top CDM behind Pogba and Bruno just to see if it could work even though ultimately probably not balanced enough as a combination.

 

[kouroux]

Right now we play Scott and Fred with Bruno as first choice, and back then they were both available and could have played with Pogba. I agree right now Bruno is a better fit for the role, but the decision was baffling back then.

McTominay was a bit young and green and Fred was just shit.

 

[He'sRaldo]

The problem is the team we have built. We don't have a DM that can play reasonably well without another player helping out but then even Pep's ultra attacking three men midfield of De Bruyne - Silva - Fernandinho had the requisite work ethic such that the DM wasn't really isolated and they kept the ball well, so I don't think a DM that can play behind Pogba and Bruno exists because Pogba lacks the work ethic and Bruno is careless with the ball.

However we could play a 4-2-2-2 with Pogba and Bruno as the 2 behind the strikers and a couple of DMs behind them to shore things up. AWB has improved on the ball a bit and our assortment of second strikers (Greenwood, Rashfrod and Martial) have experience drifting wide. Imo this the only way we can get the best out Pogba and Bruno because playing the former in a deeper role is risky and takes out some of his best attributes.

It's more about organization than work ethic.

The reason why City's AM's agree to run around like mad men is because they trust their press will work, and as a result they will have majority possession as opposed to it being an end to end game. For us, the press tends to be sloppy and tire us out instead of regaining possession. If our press and defense generally was very tightly organized, there's no reason why Pogba couldn't play beside Bruno and a top DM.

 

[He'sRaldo]

McTominay was a bit young and green and Fred was just shit.

Matic as well. Basically anyone besides those two who contributed pretty much nothing.

 

[AneRu]

It's more about organization than work ethic.

The reason why City's AM's agree to run around like mad men is because they trust their press will work, and as a result they will have majority possession as opposed to it being an end to end game. For us, the press tends to be sloppy and tire us out instead of regaining possession. If our press and defense generally was very tightly organized, there's no reason why Pogba couldn't play beside Bruno and a top DM.

I think it was something that was just natural to a player like David Silva, even before Pep he was always a hard worker off the ball despite his small frame and attacking attributes e.g I remember noticing how hard he worked in that 6-1 defeat at OT. It's the same with Bruno even though his ball retention isnt as good, you can trust Bruno in such a set up with another similarly hardworking No.10 but not with Pogba.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Just had to rewatch after @UNITED ACADEMY said every pass bar one in the first half that they showed on MOTD showed unnecessary touches.

And well, it’s quite frankly bollocks isn’t it?

The Cavani run didn’t even fecking come until a split second before Pogba struck the ball.
Does United Academy want Pogba just to hopefully twat balls behind the back four before anyone has even made a run?
The Martial pass he had a touch to control with his back to fecking goal and in that touch he also turns his man, then he needs a second touch to set up the ping, and then the fecking pass. 3 touches including the pass to beat a man, turn 180 degrees and pass a crossfield ball is now “too many”, my fecking God some people.

Utter utter dross posting by someone who has clearly never played at any decent level, if ever.

Will Cavani & others make run earlier if he knows it's Bruno on the ball instead of Pogba? I would say yes.

Are you trying to tell me that Pogba needed to take meaningless touches because Martial can't hold the ball? Is this a joke? Why Pogba being slow to release the ball has anything to do with Martial lost the ball because his hold up play was poor?

If you read my post, I actually mentioned how terrible Martial & Cavani hold up play so I wasn't blaming only Pogba for the first half performance problem but their terrible hold up play doesn't give the right thing for Pogba to be slow to release the ball. That's why I said he needs to take the share of the blame as well.

Instead of just talking shit on my view, you need to tell me why Pogba is allowed to get free pass from criticism for taking all those meaningless touches? You haven't tell me why he's allowed to do that. @Jeppers7 feel free to jump in as well.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I think it was something that was just natural to a player like David Silva, even before Pep he was always a hard worker off the ball despite his small frame and attacking attributes e.g I remember noticing how hard he worked in that 6-1 defeat at OT. It's the same with Bruno even though his ball retention isnt as good, you can trust Bruno in such a set up with another similarly hardworking No.10 but not with Pogba.

Depends on which way you're talking about.

Pogba likes to press forward but not to run back, an attacker's mentality more so than a midfielder's (he still tracks back, but not as enthusiastically as when he presses). Bruno loves to do both and be involved everywhere. Silva is somewhere in between in that he's forward thinking, but not as unenthusiastic as Pogba tracking back.

But with more organization I think it will work. We played a midfield of Fred Pogba Bruno against Sevilla, the only time we've done so, and our midfield was better than theirs both ways. If we get the DM you're talking about, as well as better organization, it could very well take the midfield to an elite level.

 

[AneRu]

Depends on which way you're talking about.

Pogba likes to press forward but not to run back, an attacker's mentality more so than a midfielder's (he still tracks back, but not as enthusiastically as when he presses). Bruno loves to do both and be involved everywhere. Silva is somewhere in between in that he's forward thinking, but not as unenthusiastic as Pogba tracking back.

But with more organization I think it will work. We played a midfield of Fred Pogba Bruno against Sevilla, the only time we've done so, and our midfield was better than theirs both ways. If we get the DM you're talking about, as well as better organization, it could very well take the midfield to an elite level.

There is a chance this could happen but the thing is if things continue along this trend, Pogba's United career would be over by the time we sign an elite DM. We need a solution for now because the longer we play him in an unsuitable position the more pressure he is under and the more unhappy and unsettled he is so the more likely he is to move on.

My initial suggestion was a 4-2-2-2 which pushes Pogba up along with Bruno and sacrifices another attacker. On current form that would be a front two of Cavani/Greenwood and Rashford. I think the creative and offensive benefit of having Pogba up along with Bruno far outweighs the weaknesses we have with fullbacks or the impact of another attacker who is in indifferent form like Martial.

 

[kouroux]

Will Cavani & others make run earlier if he knows it's Bruno on the ball instead of Pogba? I would say yes.

Are you trying to tell me that Pogba needed to take meaningless touches because Martial can't hold the ball? Is this a joke? Why Pogba being slow to release the ball has anything to do with Martial lost the ball because his hold up play was poor?

If you read my post, I actually mentioned how terrible Martial & Cavani hold up play so I wasn't blaming only Pogba for the first half performance problem but their terrible hold up play doesn't give the right thing for Pogba to be slow to release the ball. That's why I said he needs to take the share of the blame as well.

Instead of just talking shit on my view, you need to tell me why Pogba is allowed to get free pass from criticism for taking all those meaningless touches? You haven't tell me why he's allowed to do that. @Jeppers7 feel free to jump in as well.

Without even including you, I don't think he's getting a free pass at all.

 

[He'sRaldo]

There is a chance this could happen but the thing is if things continue along this trend, Pogba's United career would be over by the time we sign an elite DM. We need a solution for now because the longer we play him in an unsuitable position the more pressure he is under and the more unhappy and unsettled he is so the more likely he is to move on.

My initial suggestion was a 4-2-2-2 which pushes Pogba up along with Bruno and sacrifices another attacker. On current form that would be a front two of Cavani/Greenwood and Rashford. I think the creative and offensive benefit of having Pogba up along with Bruno far outweighs the weaknesses we have with fullbacks or the impact of another attacker who is in indifferent form like Martial.

It's not a bad suggestion to be fair, with the added benefit of having Pogba's aerial presence in the box for crosses.

Problem is it's a tricky formation that requires a lot of organization to pull off especially defensively, unless we simply resort to a flat 4-4-2. And we tend to lack organization as a team. Of course the other problem is that Ole really loves his 4-2-3-1, so that will definitely be the main formation for the foreseeable, with Pogba in a deeper role.

 

[AneRu]

It's not a bad suggestion to be fair, with the added benefit of having Pogba's aerial presence in the box for crosses.

Problem is it's a tricky formation that requires a lot of organization to pull off especially defensively, unless we simply resort to a flat 4-4-2. Of course the other problem is that Ole really loves his 4-2-3-1, so that will definitely be the main formation for the foreseeable, with Pogba in a deeper role.

Then we should drop him and sell at the earliest opportunity possibly getting a player more suited to the role like that French midfielder with a talkative Mom who Juve signed on free from PSG in return. Rather than wasting time trying to convert Pogba into what he is not and losing points as a result.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Then we should drop him and sell at the earliest opportunity possibly getting a player more suited to the role like that French midfielder with a talkative Mom who Juve signed on free from PSG in return. Rather than wasting time trying to convert Pogba into what he is not and losing points as a result.

With Real Madrid's 3 time CL winning group, the key aspect of their success (besides a GOAT player) was the strength of their bench. They all knew the bench players were unhappy, couldn't stay on the bench for long and would eventually have to be sold, but in the limited time they were together they still managed to pull together and achieve something legendary.

What people miss about selling Pogba is that the replacement isn't a guarantee. This season we've had the privilege of starting multiple games shite, and then bringing top class players on to change the game and get a result. If we don't capitalize on this rare opportunity and sell them without winning something substantial, it would be a shame.

So in summary, I don't disagree with your conclusion to sell Pogba, but we have to take into account what we'd lose in the process. It would be a shame to have a coincidence of having such a large amount of quality in the team and off the bench(that most definitely won't last for long) and not capitalize on it while it's there by being more flexible.

 

[Champ]

Has admitted that Covid has affected his fitness in his latest interview, which explains a lot, however looked much better against West Ham.

 

[kouroux]

With Real Madrid's 3 time CL winning group, the key aspect of their success (besides a GOAT player) was the strength of their bench. They all knew the bench players were unhappy, couldn't stay on the bench for long and would eventually have to be sold, but in the limited time they were together they still managed to pull together and achieve something legendary.

What people miss about selling Pogba is that the replacement isn't a guarantee. This season we've had the privilege of starting multiple games shite, and then bringing top class players on to change the game and get a result. If we don't capitalize on this rare opportunity and sell them without winning something substantial, it would be a shame.

So in summary, I don't disagree with your conclusion to sell Pogba, but we have to take into account what we'd lose in the process. It would be a shame to have a coincidence of having such a large amount of quality in the team and off the bench(that most definitely won't last for long) and not capitalize on it while it's there by being more flexible.

This is so important.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

The problem with him is he is one of the worst players when we are playing bad and one of the best when we play well

 

[AneRu]

With Real Madrid's 3 time CL winning group, the key aspect of their success (besides a GOAT player) was the strength of their bench. They all knew the bench players were unhappy, couldn't stay on the bench for long and would eventually have to be sold, but in the limited time they were together they still managed to pull together and achieve something legendary.

What people miss about selling Pogba is that the replacement isn't a guarantee. This season we've had the privilege of starting multiple games shite, and then bringing top class players on to change the game and get a result. If we don't capitalize on this rare opportunity and sell them without winning something substantial, it would be a shame.

So in summary, I don't disagree with your conclusion to sell Pogba, but we have to take into account what we'd lose in the process. It would be a shame to have a coincidence of having such a large amount of quality in the team and off the bench(that most definitely won't last for long) and not capitalize on it while it's there by being more flexible.

Its understandable from that perspective but you still need a first eleven that's dependable and solid in both the defensive and offensive phases. Imo our midfield variations are no way near good enough for consistent performances that are required for a team to even dream about major titles.

We have two or three options for the midfield:
1. Matic - Pogba - Bruno is the most technical and saw us through the run in that earned us third but off the ball it can be run over because Paul doesn't do enough to help out an aging Matic.

2. Fred - McTominay - Bruno is the workmen like midfield that is full of heart but its vulnerable to the press and leaves Bruno with all the central creative burden.

3. Fred - McTominay - Pogba - Bruno could do well as a quartet because we have the best of no.1 and no.2 options - workrate and technical quality.

I think we have seen enough of Pogba playing the deeper role in a 4-2-3-1 to conclude that it rarely works and his best contributions have been up the pitch in the attacking phase. We now have Bruno who has done enough to be the first name on the team so Ole's challenge is to find a team structure that can accommodate the two of them without exposing the team defensively.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Its understandable from that perspective but you still need a first eleven that's dependable and solid in both the defensive and offensive phases. Imo our midfield variations are no way near good enough for consistent performances that are required for a team to even dream about major titles.

We have two or three options for the midfield:
1. Matic - Pogba - Bruno is the most technical and saw us through the run in that earned us third but off the ball it can be run over because Paul doesn't do enough to help out an aging Matic.

2. Fred - McTominay - Bruno is the workmen like midfield that is full of heart but its vulnerable to the press and leaves Bruno with all the central creative burden.

3. Fred - McTominay - Pogba - Bruno could do well as a quartet because we have the best of no.1 and no.2 options - workrate and technical quality.

I think we have seen enough of Pogba playing the deeper role in a 4-2-3-1 to conclude that it rarely works and his best contributions have been up the pitch in the attacking phase. We now have Bruno who has done enough to be the first name on the team so Ole's challenge is to find a team structure that can accommodate the two of them without exposing the team defensively.

The only time I feel safe defensively is when we have Fred and Mctominay. But we look much less creative with both of them on the pitch and rely mostly on counters. I'm not a tactical guru but why can't this work?

Pogba ........ Bruno
Fred.... Scott


​

 

[VP89]

The only time I feel safe defensively is when we have Fred and Mctominay. But we look much less creative with both of them on the pitch and rely mostly on counters. I'm not a tactical guru but why can't this work?

Pogba ........ Bruno
Fred.... Scott


​

One of Pogba or Bruno would need to park themselves wide and it's probably not good for balance. Bit narrow? I am no tactical guru myself but that's how I think it would be a problem!

 

[AneRu]

The only time I feel safe defensively is when we have Fred and Mctominay. But we look much less creative with both of them on the pitch and rely mostly on counters. I'm not a tactical guru but why can't this work?

Pogba ........ Bruno
Fred.... Scott


​

I think it could work.

One of Pogba or Bruno would need to park themselves wide and it's probably not good for balance. Bit narrow? I am no tactical guru myself but that's how I think it would be a problem!

Pogba likes to drift to the left, the strikers we have also like to drift. Let's not forget that Cavani spent a significant chunk of his PSG and international career as a striker that had to drift wide because he played with Ibrahimovic and Suarez, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood can do it because they played as wingers not too long ago.

Let's say Bruno starts as RM and Pogba as LM, as Bruno drifts infield Pogba goes outside but they wont be playing in isolation because we would have two forwards making runs or coming deep to be involved in the build up play.

The most important part for me is that we would have our two most important creators on the pitch at the same time and in roles where they are most effective supplying two of our most lethal attackers with the insurance of our most solid DM combination behind them. It should work.

 

[Idxomer]

The only time I feel safe defensively is when we have Fred and Mctominay. But we look much less creative with both of them on the pitch and rely mostly on counters. I'm not a tactical guru but why can't this work?

Pogba ........ Bruno
Fred.... Scott


​

Didn't we try something similar against Arsenal and our strikers looked lost and everything was congested in the middle?

 

[VP89]

I think it could work.

Pogba likes to drift to the left, the strikers we have also like to drift. Let's not forget that Cavani spent a significant chunk of his PSG and international career as a striker that had to drift wide because he played with Ibrahimovic and Suarez, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood can do it because they played as wingers not too long ago.

Let's say Bruno starts as RM and Pogba as LM, as Bruno drifts infield Pogba goes outside but they wont be playing in isolation because we would have two forwards making runs or coming deep to be involved in the build up play.

The most important part for me is that we would have our two most important creators on the pitch at the same time and in roles where they are most effective supplying two of our most lethal attackers with the insurance of our most solid DM combination behind them. It should work.

That's exactly why it wouldn't work. You'll just have too many players free roaming and what looks like it a potentially fun, fluid looking attack will just be convoluted and congested.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Because of Bruno IMHO, since he's our best player, we have to put him in the best configuration to shine (he's earned it). Otherwise it's Pogba who would play in the advanced role of the midfielders

But before Bruno join us, we already keep playing Pogba in double pivot. Remember our AM is used to be Lingard or Pereira?

 

[kouroux]

But before Bruno join us, we already keep playing Pogba in double pivot. Remember our AM is used to be Lingard or Pereira?

I know that, Pogba was brought as a CM initially and played there with Mourinho. When Ole arrived, we saw the kinda player he could be in a more advanced role and he was delivering good performances there (his output was better even if the period was super long). Right now, there is a superior player to him at the club, we'd lose more as a team if we exchanged their positions.

 

[AltiUn]

I think in the future if Fernandes can't play, we should be switching van de Beek and Pogba's positions. The closer Pogba is to the opposition box the happier I am.

 

[golden_blunder]

Where are the haters tonight

I’m right here. Already reiterated that I don’t think he’s right for our team or for English football actually.

 

[pratyush_utd]

 

[Adam-Utd]

Wow!

They say that's what Covid does to you.

Yep, it was clear Pogba was really struggling from COVID. I had it also and suffered from exactly the same things, extreme fatigue that just made your lungs feel like they had 50% the capacity they did before. No wonder he's looked sluggish and unfit - he literally is due to the virus.

He showed more of his old self against West Ham so that's very positive to see. Hopefully he can kick on now and have a good rest of the season as he's so important when he's at his best.