Totally agree. It just happen he fluke a few pass which looks nice to the eyes, and scored a 30 yard tap in. Overall he is totally shite.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Status
Beautiful goal!
I’ve been calling him out all over the shop for a long time but he was our best player. in the first half He looked up for it but the team wasn’t firing. He took over in the second half. If he can keep playing like that we still have a very good player on our hands. If he can sort his work rate out he might still have a future here but it’s really touch and go. It’s a good selection headache for Ole to have.
I’ve been calling him out all over the shop for a long time but he was our best player. in the first half He looked up for it but the team wasn’t firing. He took over in the second half. If he can keep playing like that we still have a very good player on our hands. If he can sort his work rate out he might still have a future here but it’s really touch and go. It’s a good selection headache for Ole to have.
Beautiful goal and he was no worse than anyone else in the first half.
From what I have seen of him in a Utd shirt he was good today but it could have gone south if he connected with the opposition when he did the overhead clearance in his own penalty area in the first half. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
From what I have seen of him in a Utd shirt he was good today but it could have gone south if he connected with the opposition when he did the overhead clearance in his own penalty area in the first half. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Fantastic goal.
I think he's a bit too casual on the ball and always looking for that hollywood pass. When he gets it right it looks great but at other times it just slows down play or he gets closed down. Needs to move the ball quicker I think and focus more. He has the skills to do that as he showed at times yesterday.
On the defensive side of things, there are a lot more issues - his workrate is quite low and he also doesn't seem to have interest in defending so his awareness of opposition player movement isn't great. I don't feel he puts in much thought into defensive positioning, and that's a problem as oppositions will exploit that.
I think he's a bit too casual on the ball and always looking for that hollywood pass. When he gets it right it looks great but at other times it just slows down play or he gets closed down. Needs to move the ball quicker I think and focus more. He has the skills to do that as he showed at times yesterday.
On the defensive side of things, there are a lot more issues - his workrate is quite low and he also doesn't seem to have interest in defending so his awareness of opposition player movement isn't great. I don't feel he puts in much thought into defensive positioning, and that's a problem as oppositions will exploit that.
It's a relief to see the movement issue detected. If there is little to none, then obviously you're going to see more high-risk, lower percentage passes made from one who is always trying to influence the game. You're also going to see more dribbles and 'hero actions' than you would from that exact player when other cogs are doing what they're supposed to be doing.
It's no coincidence that Pogba 'comes alive' when he has options and smart runs to pick out. He's never actually 'dead' as he will always have a high chance of influencing a game when balls are on to hit because his technical level is so high. He can have the equivalent Bruno stinker of a game but still come away with the plaudits, if the movement around him is good enough.
Our chicken and egg scenario has been intrinsic for his entire time at the club. He gets the blame for others because he tries to play with them in mind, which is ironic when his 'ball-hogging' is seen as selfish, rather than him attempting to buy time for others to actually move so that he can then progress the ball in an incisive manner.
There's only so many times this can be a valid statement before you have to look at why this is the case rather than blaming the player/player(s). Our staff need to identify how to optimise their personnel, and with that, avoid the things that compromise each of them as much as possible. Someone else mentioned there's only so many times you can put a half-decent 2-way midfielder in a double-pivot and that's true: you either stop doing that or you compensate for it by getting in a better DM or buffering that area of the pitch with contingency cover for the invariable moments of compromise through whatever you want to call it (lapses in concentration; laziness; unawares of what is going on; or, more simply, an offensive-minded player not being at his best in such an adroitly defensive position) - how many times can that fall back on a player (any player) when their strengths and weaknesses are apparent?
France can use Pogba in that position because of what they surround him with and what it affords him in both directions. Why we keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome, hell only knows.
Our recruitment over the summer should have sorted this out and had Pogba field either further forward or with a world class anchor compensating for what he simply is. There should be no wonder to why we get half a tune out of him in the team when he's in the position he is with no mind to what it means for him, and for others.
Entirely. Bruno is getting a lot of praise, but Rashford's driving runs, and ability to make swathes of opposition track him, desperately trying to cover passing lanes as well as his ball-carriage, opened up the field so much for anyone looking to use the ball behind him. It's a hammer and nail scenario. It would be nice if we had a bag of nails for our two hammers to hit. But that comes with coaching as opposed to waiting on inspired moments of individualism.
Even with Murphy's take, it won't be a surprise to see it dismissed, despite him being one of the harshest critics of United and midfielders in general, on British television.
I think the problem for Pogba is people don't particularly care what is going on around him or for whys and wherefores as they expect him, by himself, to turn everything into gold, which was never ever the player we bought from Juventus, who had Pirlo and Vidal behind him and a clear and defined role in the team, which allowed for his foibles but also optimised him at all times. You can't just scramble formulas and expect the same outcome. His NT and his former club compensate(d for his shortcomings (and yes, he has them), so why don't we? The few times we have, his form has been what he was bought here to be, but then, we slot him further back again because we haven't bought the correct players to lock him into a role that gets the best out of him and causes no-one else headaches.
But he didn't make alot of bad plays in the first half. He maybe gave the ball away twice the other times were cavani and martial not holding onto his passes and taking bad touches.
He's supposed to be the one that prevents us from looking poor, in a team like that. Him and Martial anyway. Cavani, VdB and Telles are new, Greenwood, McTominay, Henderson and AWB are still young, the only other established players are Maguire and Lindelof. The two defenders get a lot of criticism but have mostly done their jobs in general, and showed that leadership in an inexperienced defence. Pogba didn't do that at all in midfield and Martial didn't do it at all in attack.
He has been a shadow of himself all season, playing with the usual carelessness but also with a complete lack of self-belief. After the first few mistakes that transmits to the rest of the team, he doesn't become more determined to get it right next time but more resigned that he'll get it wrong. The forwards weren't on the same wavelength with anyone in midfield so clearly that isn't exclusively Pogba's fault, but we should expect him to bridge that gap. Bruno does that. He makes shitloads of mistakes but also convinces people to continue making those runs and taking risks because he's determined to find them.
So in short, our first half poor display was mostly Pogba's fault, our 2nd half good display is mostly from Bruno's brilliance.
Can't say I disagree, overall I think Pogba is still shite, he almost cost us the game again, shouldn't be anywhere near the first team.
Judgement on the above is hardly conclusive until we have a functioning team with defined roles and an actual style of play. Pogba does not hold on to the ball too long or lack decisive actions at any time when any team he is in has the components that enable him to play his actual game. When things grind to a halt, he is asked to pull flowers from ground that scarcely bores anything.
Bruno's brief, and his personality to simply do whatever he wants, means more high-risk, high-reward actions that may or may not come off, but his bad games revolve around tremendous wastefulness in use of the ball, which is overlooked for the times what he is attempting comes off and leads to a game-defining moment. Pogba is not going to be that kind of player, but it doesn't mean he hasn't got the means to play the role as he's shown his best form and numbers there whilst here. His approach would be, and is, different even if it culminates in the same outcome.
It was said by the commentary team that they'd watched Bruno and Rashford drill the same runs and actions repeatedly at half-time. That means, when one goes, the other knows what he should be doing. That is not solely on Bruno, as it is a trained tandem that benefits the both of them. Rashford is the catalyst as his runs enable the pass, otherwise something else would have to be attempted.
What I'm saying here is that your reasoning isn't fair. Pogba didn't have a Rashford to work with in the first half.
This is no slight on Bruno, but objectively, each cog should have a role in enabling another, and we often fall short of providing that.
A poor first half, but that can be said about everyone to be fair, excellent in the second with a goal of the season contender, interesting to see which pogba turns up against leipzig
But according to experts on Body language, Pogba wasn't good? 10 recoveries and 4 clearance must be wrong because Redcafe experts told us so
I think the general consensus is he was poor in the first half, probably due to the rest of the team being absolute shit but didn’t cover himself in glory at the same time.
Was a different animal 2nd half with Bruno and Rashford ahead of him.
He wasn't in first half. Lost the ball in dangerous areas and put us under pressure like he normally does. It's true he was no worse than anyone else though.
Very good second half though.
The clip literally highlights the fact that he did create chances for Cavani and Greenwood or "playmake" in the first half. Are you that against him that you ignore it?
How did he almost cost us the game? He was the stand out performer in the first half albeit everyone else was woeful and also had a very good second half. He had the highest touches of the game, 84% pass completion, goal scored, clearances won...etc.
Credit where credit is due.
I see Pogba FC are out in force. He had a good game nothing more, hasn't proved anything to anyone yet.
If he can carry this on then great but let's see first eh.
If he can carry this on then great but let's see first eh.
No one is saying he proved anything. Simple fact is he was good and helped us win.
First half was hit or miss but everyone sucked in that one. Even in that half a decent amount of his passes reached Martial or Cavani but they failed to hold it up. It's a team game after all.
The issue is there is so many not willing to ever give him any credit.
For instance he was great defensively. Especially from corners. Doesn't get any credit for it though.
There are people in here saying he almost cost us the game. I think those guys are in the wrong thread because the midifelder who was costing us the game was McTominay. He didn't even improve when Bruno and Rashford came on.
I agree with everything you said. He had a good game, nothing more was my opinion of it. What is sad is the sheer amount of agenda driven nonsense and a player who doesn’t get credit for his individual performance because the team performance was so poor first half. He did his job first half, he wasnt brilliant, in fact for me he wasn’t brilliant all game, his numbers are great though, he simply had a good game. Individually when the team struggled and collectively when the team improved.
Decent game, great goal. Pleased for him
I don’t trust him in big games.
I don’t trust him in big games.
I still think he has regressed since the injuries. Lost a lot of his dynamism and doesn't take as many risks. Just a good player now but not a game changer.
Cracking goal however, hopefully he kicks on.
Cracking goal however, hopefully he kicks on.
Fitting goal to open his pl account and cap a man of the match performance, looking fitter and fitter 
Pogba doesn’t play the same position as Bruno. He plays much deeper. It’s a lot harder to create from where he plays than from where Bruno plays. And that’s not to diminish Bruno’s contribution, they have different responsibilities
I thought he was awful first half but I felt sorry for him. For a start he isnt completely match fit, secondly he was the one trying to do everything to get us up the pitch but it just didnt come off.
The moment we had any sense of control he looked great and it was great to see him winning headers in our box etc.
I hope he doesnt do it too often or ill want him to stay.
The moment we had any sense of control he looked great and it was great to see him winning headers in our box etc.
I hope he doesnt do it too often or ill want him to stay.
Pogba FC is out because Anti Pogba brigade is out... Why can't people say "Yeah he had a decent games, needs to kick on" and be done with it?
This place baffles me at times, there is no middle ground on anything just extreme views one way or the other.
Nonsense. Not a fan of Pogba at all and think he should be sold the first chance we get, but he was our best player in the first half and had loads of good involvements and really put down a good shift.
Just as an aside, I’ve rewatched the highlights and West Ham’s goal, Telles is marking Souceck. Goes back a bit with his run and completely stops, let’s him run off him completely. Had that been Pogba who did that then Gary Nevilles narrative would have been set. His usual buzzwords would be out. As soon as he realised it wasn’t Pogba tracking the run, he just kind of shut up on it. I’ve just looked on the match day thread. Nobody slating Telles for not tracking the run? In fact more people seemed to blame Pogba for simply being on the pitch.
This sh*t needs highlighting because you can be damn sure if Pogba had lost his man on a corner and it led to a goal it would be the entire talk of the halftime and of Nevilles commentary, I remember a Chelsea goal away where he got blocked off a few seasons ago for example, these media agendas influence the opinion of viewers.
Would I massively slate Telles for someone running off the back of him? Not really. It happens all the time in football. But it isn’t fair to slate one person anytime someone runs off them, and ignore it when it’s other players. Especially defenders.
This sh*t needs highlighting because you can be damn sure if Pogba had lost his man on a corner and it led to a goal it would be the entire talk of the halftime and of Nevilles commentary, I remember a Chelsea goal away where he got blocked off a few seasons ago for example, these media agendas influence the opinion of viewers.
Would I massively slate Telles for someone running off the back of him? Not really. It happens all the time in football. But it isn’t fair to slate one person anytime someone runs off them, and ignore it when it’s other players. Especially defenders.
Nothing against him and I’m struggling how can you not see the main problem was. We were so slow in our build up and because of that opposition defense easily read our play from deep, as a result we struggled to create chances. Are you telling me that we weren’t lacking playmaking at all in first half? How the feck we only had 3 shots in first half but we had 12 shots in second half?
Our problem first half was the 4 players in front of the midfield, especially Martial and DvB.
Once Bruno & Rashford came in, once the ball came forward there was a directness and willingness to run and create.
Bruno injects speed of play in front of the midfield and Rashford injects an incredible threat behind.
Nothing much changed with the 2 more defensive midfielders or the defenders.
Pogba’s responsibility was deep playmaker. Different position to Bruno who played in advanced but the purpose of playmaker is the same to dictate the game. The Greenwood & Rashford goals build up from Bruno’s quick play, he didn’t need to take unnecessary touches in that build up, quick plays which gave no chance for opposition defense to read them. On the other hand, Pogba first half was the opposite, he wasn’t quick enough to release the ball, took unnecessary touches which allow opposition defense to get back and read the passes he played.
It's the stuff they CAN do that he can't that's kept him out. What a conundrum he is. I thought he was the best of a bad lot in the first half, at least looked like he wanted the ball, didn't dwell on it long enough to invite the tackle except on one occasion and wasn't helped by Mctominay's worst performance of the season beside him. He was good in the second half, when thevmomentum was forward and in our favour. I still don't know what to do with him, though. Somebody tell me how we can fit him in without leaving ourselves wide open.
Martial, DvB & Cavani were poor but they aren’t not the main reason why we lacked directness and willingness to run and create. The slow build up from the deep was the main reason which you could see so many times when our front four received the ball, West ham centre back & defensive mid were able to read the passes and quickly pressure and stole the ball from our front four.
Bruno made our play quicker because he doesn’t take ages to release the ball. He dictates the play like a proper playmaker. Something Pogba couldn’t do.
Interesting quotes from him in MUTV interview.
I’ve heard of numerous examples of very fit people who lost all their cardio after covid. Hopefully he really has shaken it off properly now, because those symptoms can linger and linger and being young/an athlete doesn’t make you immune from all the consequences.
I’ve heard of numerous examples of very fit people who lost all their cardio after covid. Hopefully he really has shaken it off properly now, because those symptoms can linger and linger and being young/an athlete doesn’t make you immune from all the consequences.
Epitomy of pogba. Capable of a moment of genius, but largely poor & frustrating.
Not sure if anyone mentioned, but one moment in first half said it all. Gave it away really easily in midfield, then jogged back while they hit post.
Not sure if anyone mentioned, but one moment in first half said it all. Gave it away really easily in midfield, then jogged back while they hit post.
Again, it’s much easier to create, especially in fewer touches, from where Bruno plays than from where Pogba plays. This isn’t debatable.
And when you consider the fact Pogba wasn’t getting any help nor did he have the quality around him that Bruno and Rashford added when they came on then that’s another factor as to why he had to take more touches. Pogba himself being on the pitch means Bruno played with better quality players for longer than Pogba did. I mean, you mentioned Rashford’s goal. Go look at who transitioned the ball quickly to Bruno. That’s right, Pogba.
The comparison to Bruno is a false equivalence.
Pogba had a good game, struggled in the first half like the whole team did. Bruno and Rashford added much needed quality.
I disagree. In first half it was clear what was the role and our actual play. VDB was assigned to be a runner, space creator and the link up between midfield and attackers. Pogba was assigned to be the deep playmaker to dictate the play from deep. While the other three up front to score goals.
The problem was obvious that we are so slow in our build up, this allows opposition defense to read every passes we tried to made in first half from deep. Even if we have Rashford, he wouldn’t be benefit from slow tempo and build up that we did in first half. He would suffer the same because it won’t change the fact that west ham defense would easily press him and would read the passes.
Bruno on the other hand was given different role to VDB. His role was an advanced playmaker. His role wasn’t just to play killer ball in the final third but also find spaces for himself and drop deep to get the ball to dictate the play.
Again, you missed the point, it’s not just about fewer touches. The point is not to take unnecessary touches. Reduce the meaningless touches. Just watch the clips, are you telling me that Pogba couldn’t release the ball earlier without taking those meaningless touches?
The meaningless touches that Pogba took allowed west ham defense and defensive midfield to read where the passes were going, we saw how many times west ham easily took away the ball from our front four everytime Pogba passed to them. Thus, even if replace Cavani with Rashford in first half without Bruno in the team it wouldn’t make difference.
"When asked how COVID-19 had affected him, Pogba told MUTV: “It’s strange, it’s hard to explain because you wouldn’t understand.
“Even in training, I would say to the fitness coach that I feel strange. It’s not me. I get tired very fast and I’m out of breath really fast.
“The first game of the season, I couldn’t run. I was trying. I spoke with the manager. ‘I will start the game and let’s see’, but I was very out of breath and it took me a long time to get back to my fitness and to get back physically good."
Full article
https://strettynews.com/2020/12/06/paul-pogba-explains-impact-covid-19-had-on-his-fitness/
“Even in training, I would say to the fitness coach that I feel strange. It’s not me. I get tired very fast and I’m out of breath really fast.
“The first game of the season, I couldn’t run. I was trying. I spoke with the manager. ‘I will start the game and let’s see’, but I was very out of breath and it took me a long time to get back to my fitness and to get back physically good."
Full article
https://strettynews.com/2020/12/06/paul-pogba-explains-impact-covid-19-had-on-his-fitness/
- Status