Don't think football is for you. Absolute mental take.
His contract has nothing to do with him advertising Heineken.
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Don't think football is for you. Absolute mental take.
His contract has nothing to do with him advertising Heineken.
I dont think living in a society where if there is a demand for something, the people actually doing the activity get the bulk of that money. That's pretty fair IMO. People pay a lot of money to watch these players. It is beyond fecked up to think that the majority of that money shouldn't go to the players.
Maybe the players didn't know which bottle would be in front of them? Or previously said they don't want that advertised? Like I said, Ronaldo had no beer in front of him because he's very publicly against alcohol so Heineken didn't try. Pogba saw it there so removed it.
Fernandinho for City, Carrick/Keane for Sir Alex, Busquets for Barca, Casemiro/Makelele for Real Madrid, Kante for Chelsea/Leicester, Fabinho for Liverpool, Vieira for Arsenal's invincibles.. funny how all great and successful teams get a brilliant defensive midfielder to knit it all together. Until we sort that out, we won't be balanced. One of the most important positions in football.
Why is it unfair for footballers to earn what they do? I never understood that line of thinking
First, it was absolutely a leading question.
The problem is that you made a general statement about the usefulness of managers and then used what are exceptional circumstances as a reasoning. Managers are almost always key because players do not have the awareness to understand their own limitations, most of them also lack communication skills so even if they understand some things they can't effectively share their thoughts. Some teams have the luxury of having players that have these qualities but it's a rarity.
And I don't see it as negative or positive, it's just that what you are suggesting is highly unlikely, it barely happens in Football. It's like hoping that Maguire turns into Baresi. It would be great but I wouldn't bet on it and would focus on more realistic scenarios which include Ole doing what he has in mind from a tactical standpoint with players that suit the roles that he wants.
How would that be fair? In what industry do you see key workers earning less than 1% of turnovers? And how is that fair?
Not trying to be mean here, but you've genuinely shown a lack of understanding of footballer contracts. There's also a tone of resentment or jealousy at just how much they get paid, alongside the lack of knowledge about why they get paid the amount they do.
First, it was absolutely a leading question.
The problem is that you made a general statement about the usefulness of managers and then used what are exceptional circumstances as a reasoning. Managers are almost always key because players do not have the awareness to understand their own limitations, most of them also lack communication skills so even if they understand some things they can't effectively share their thoughts. Some teams have the luxury of having players that have these qualities but it's a rarity.
And I don't see it as negative or positive, it's just that what you are suggesting is highly unlikely, it barely happens in Football. It's like hoping that Maguire turns into Baresi. It would be great but I wouldn't bet on it and would focus on more realistic scenarios which include Ole doing what he has in mind from a tactical standpoint with players that suit the roles that he wants.
I might've framed it misleadingly! I'm not saying they would transform into a great team. I just think it's perfectly plausible that an unspectacular manager could get Bruno and Pogba to play in the same midfield together. That's not a great challenge. Likewise that they would be able to improve from their current position (very loose challengers) to legitimate contenders, assuming we get someone like Sancho, without needing to rip up the coaching set up. I think that could improve us too I'm just saying you really don't need a great manager for a team to function. For it to develop into a great team, yeah, that's unlikely with a limited manager. It's also unlikely with a great manager. Great teams are quite rare anyway. Managers often make an important contribution but I absolutely do not agree with the importance they're given these days. You need them for great systematic football but not all football needs to be like that.
I actually think a top DM should be our main priority this summer and not Sancho. The difference it would make both in shielding the back four and liberating the likes of Pogba would be bigger, for me, than an extra wide attacker.
The more I think about it, he'd fit pretty well into PSGs side. They have a similar setup to France with Mbappe and Neymar, and they've signed Wjnaldum now so could field Wjnaldum + Verrati alongside Pogba.
What they've badly lacked is a passer in midfield, in the CL against City Neymar was having to drop into midfield to get the ball.
To be honest if they come in with an £80m offer I'd sell. We can't really accommodate both Bruno and Pogba and he's just not ideal for the team we have right now. Use that money for a DM and a RB/CB.
What they've badly lacked is a passer in midfield, in the CL against City Neymar was having to drop into midfield to get the ball.
To be honest if they come in with an £80m offer I'd sell. We can't really accommodate both Bruno and Pogba and he's just not ideal for the team we have right now. Use that money for a DM and a RB/CB.
I'm being facetious, I see what you mean. Basically the manager can create a framework and the players are the ones mainly filling it which goes with your point about the team being centered around individuals. While it's difficult to disagree, keep in mind that it requires that the club and the manager build a squad that is very balanced and were players intrinsically fit together without requiring major input, it's very difficult to create that type of context.
Look mate, I appreciate the discussion with you. I disagree with most of your arguments, but I agree in general there should be more fairness and more people should stand up for what is right.
My problem is with professionalism and with the hypocrisy that such star players are showing. There is so much shady work in football, so much bloodied money, yet they decide to take their stand on legitimate sponsors. Coca-Cola in particular is one of the big companies that have injected huge amounts of money into the sport in the last decades. Do you think it would be the same without them and do you believe it's really so easy to just find lucrative sponsorship deals in the times we are living in?
I don't particularly care if Coca-Cola or Heineken go bankrupt tomorrow. My problem is with the basic principles of being professional and mindful of the other entities in the environment your operate in. It's as simple as that. If we go down the drain of looking for the most moral and clean money supply, there won't be much left in football.
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I get that, but for Pogba specifically I definitely understand understand. He's Muslim, and his core belief system is against alcohol and doesn't want to support it. He understands its part of society and that they are a sponsor, he just chooses to not actively advertise it in front of his face, and it is in general disrespectful to have a bottle of alcohol in front of you on the table. That goes beyond contracts and money. It's one thing if it's just a brand name behind him. But it's a beer bottle in front of him on the table, even if its non alcoholic, it's still disrespectful and against his beliefs to participate in or encourage others to.
Ronaldo clearly feels the same way about Coca-Cola for whatever reason. I'm of the opinion that players and anyone can speak their minds on whatever they want, as all people should in whatever job they are part of. Part of freedom of speech involves not actively advertising something if you have some control over it, like a bottle displayed right in front of your face while you are speaking to the world.
Whilst I understand your point, I just can't let the hypocrisy I see in these players go. When you pick and choose the subjects you stand against on moral grounds, I don't believe the intentions are sincere or justifiable. What if Ronaldo's or Pogba's actions are negatively impacting many employees of these companies with their actions? Is it deserved in the name of doing what is good and right? And who decides the moral compass of the society, political system, religion, financial system?
They're humans mate. If you're expecting perfection, you're going to be disappointed.
If hypocrisy is your pet peeve then fair enough it will be extra disappointing for you, but that's how basically all the people I've encountered work. Best just take the gestures at face value.
Everyone can have their own moral compass and make the decisions they want to, people aren't sheep that have to conform to everything, rightly or wrongly.
Yes, some people will always be negatively impacted personally from global changes. A lot of that will come in the near future with everyone working in oil related industries as the global economy shifts more to sustainable/renewable energies. That's going to feck over TONS of workers in oil fields. And it will be still the right decision for the overall gain. My company would likely be hit by that too. It's still the right thing to happen eventually for the greater good. Some things are in my control. Some things aren't. Just like the players. Some things are out of their control, like Heineken and Coca-Cola being tournament sponsors, or corrupt owners of football teams. Some are in their control, like actively advertising these things. The Qatar world cup will be a big thing as I would guess that there will be a lot of protests going on, possibly some even pulling out, but some keeping quiet if they just don't feel the need to be vocal about it, while others actively protesting but still playing as they would at the end of the day still try and achieve their dreams for their countries. Balance.
Hypocrisy is one of the biggest battles in my life. I've cut down my social contacts to a bare minimum due to that fact, I just can't stand seeing it or experiencing it and if I can't do anything about it, I'd rather remove myself from the situation entirely.
They should have honour for Heineken? And coke?
Mate, I know Canada is a wonderful country, supposedly. But the rest of the world operates in a different reality, that's for sure.
It's an emotional subject for me overall, I've said enough and will move on from the topic. It's getting too serious and we can debate in circles forever.What we're really missing is our very own Ndidi.
Unfortunately, few can match Ndidi's insane defensive statistics - Tchouameni comes pretty close, though:
They're an awful company though. Truly terrible. They shouldn't be a sponsor in the first place. So I'm all for a footballer having a go at them, whatever his reasons.
Give me an example of a good company that can invest so much resources. I'd dare to say there isn't a single big corporation that is good.
Coca Cola are especially renowned for having an extremely poor ethical record. I find it strange that you are so defensive about them. I’m sure they will cope either way.
So you can't give an example of a good corporation? Until you do, I don't particularly care about any other arguments, because this is the basis of the excuses I see.
Please won't somebody think of the poor likes of Heineken and Coca Cola
These selfish players really think only of themselves instead of multimillion dollar corporate sponsors that they should be thinking of, the absolute state of them...
My thoughts too. Insane that someone is defending gigantic commercial entities like that in this thread.Yeah I guess there’s absolutely no room for individual perspective and nuance in the world.
To this day I’m still shocked at this.
Don't worry, he isn't looking at you.
I can. I did.
Nike has been aligning themselves with loads of very good and important values over the past few years. Not sure if they do shady business, but I respect the message they're trying to send in terms of equality for all, in everything.
Funnily enough we had a meeting at work the other day considering the differences between Adidas and Nike in terms of ethical focus. I’m sure what you say is true, but Adidas came out looking a hell of a lot better than Nike, from how they source their materials all the way up to corporate culture.
Yeah Adidas is quite good with it too, have a friend who works at corporate there and he loves it (gives me sweet discounts too).
That sounds very interesting
Nike do have a very proficient PR department, I'll give them that. Though it seems you might be more aware of the internal working conditions on that level, so I have no reason to distrust you.
Nope have no idea on internal working conditions, quick read shows they're improving after being pretty bad in the past and have done a good job at fixing their reputations, but a bit behind Adidas generally. But still, in terms of the "messages" they send I'd say they're both quite good. No idea past that though.
Ndidi seems a rare find tbh. I did some research and stats wise nobody matched Ndidi defensively. The ones that came close were Tchouameni, Pahlinha and Sangare and they all play in lesser sides tooWhat we're really missing is our very own Ndidi.
Unfortunately, few can match Ndidi's insane defensive statistics - Tchouameni comes pretty close, though:
Top 3 performance catalyst in a £2-5 BILLION company, earning £240,000 a year. Ok then. Jesus wept.
Pay £100m+ for Kante. Pogba is a different player with the right support.
Thats mental. Are you (accidentally) suggesting you couldn’t run a refuge for battered women if racism, fraud and gun crime still exists?
Nobody can’t fight all battles. EVERYONE in life has to be selective.
I think that's totally justified, the thing is these are human beings with their own flaws, but some of them are literally brands with obligations to their employees and stakeholders, and so for sure they're inconsistent. Most athletes won't speak out against China for example, because they can generate so much money from that market, or some will criticize a sponsor that's bad for your health but will wear sportswear that uses sweat shops.
Now athletes can choose who to associate with, and since every major footwear is probably using similar shady practices, then they can put blinders on that issue, it doesn't mean they can't legitimately feel morally against a certain brand, sure it would make them hypocrites but it's also what we all are on some level. The problem is putting these people on a pedestal for anything other than football, some certainly deserve it, and CR7 is a very philanthropic person without pushing the promotion of it for self-benefit.
We're all people, and we're all hypocrites on some issues/situations/etc. You should let it go.
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