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I like great footballers, I value that over work horses. What I dislike are people like yourself who come on here when it suits and spout absolute nonsense that can’t be backed up but just becomes narrative.
You may disagree in individual cases, which is fine, but simply look through the thread marks of the games on here from December game by game and you will get a general consensus of his performances in that period. There’s 34 games in total. I’ll tell you now that the general consensus in the majority is excellent, phenomenal, sensational some it’s very good, or good again, get the contract signed etc etc etc. Then there’s the odd game where he was average and a few particularly towards the end of the season like Liverpool where he was shite.
I think with a sample size of 34 games, if the likes of yourself and Pogue etc disagree with the general consensus, especially in a thread as toxic as this against Pogba, then the issue you have is a personal issue.
What exactly does it sum up?
And by the same token, he needs to score a goal a game for you to get the feck off his back for 5 minutes.
To add on to what others are saying, they do have Kante in midfield who counts as 2 defensive midfielders basically with the ground he covers and his tracking. But also last 2 games he's played as the most "free" of the midfield 3, with Kante and Tolisso or Rabiot or previously Matuidi in that midfield around him. So basically, the #10. But he has sometimes played just next to Kante as well with an attacking front 4, but I doubt ever against serious opposition.Which position does Pogba play for, for France?
How are they getting so much out of him and 9 times out of 10 he's under achieving at United?
Does £40m qualify as a large sum? For Madrid, Barca, PSG, and Juventus, none of which won their respective domestic leagues or did much of anything in Europe, having Pogba would go along way in making them a lot more competitive next season. Seems like a bit of open goal for one of the big boys.No big club will be stupid enough to fork out large sums for him when they know he'll be a free agent next year. He won't leave this summer.
If a manager picks a player that clearly doesnt want to be in the club over others perhaps?
He definitely hasn't worked out as a signing, but IMO it's not that we got conned or that he wasn't a 90 million pound player. It's more that we just wasted him and tbh I feel a bit for Pogba because I think he could've been viewed completely differently if he played in a more competent team over this period. He always needed to be in a more free role in a midfield 3, not one of the deeper 2. Not saying he was as good as him obviously, but stylistically Pogba was always quite similar to Zidane. It's as if we bought Zidane and played him in a midfield 2 and expected the midfield to be fine, and then picked fights with him whenever we were careless at the back. Which is probably the most frustrating part.Personally think Pogba has been a very poor signing for the money involved. We got conned by Juve. He was never a 90 million pound player.
To add on to what others are saying, they do have Kante in midfield who counts as 2 defensive midfielders basically with the ground he covers and his tracking. But also last 2 games he's played as the most "free" of the midfield 3, with Kante and Tolisso or Rabiot or previously Matuidi in that midfield around him. So basically, the #10. But he has sometimes played just next to Kante as well with an attacking front 4, but I doubt ever against serious opposition.
And as Rozay said, he's very good most of the time for us. The problem comes when we play him in a midfield 2 against a big team and especially when that midfield partner isn't a natural defensive midfielder.
Sure, not a normal 10. But he's definitely more free to do his thing than Kante/Tolisso or Rabiot or, or Matuidi beforehand. Pogba played like a normal CM except he had the support of 2 hard working and more competent defensive players around him to make up for his faults there. How often does France use Pogba in a midfield 2 with 4 actual attackers in front? It's usually 3 attackers and the other player being more someone who can help solidify the midfield.Pogba doesn't play and has almost never played as a 10 for France, that's Griezmann's zone and role. He plays deeper and does his defensive job like a normal CM.
He definitely hasn't worked out as a signing, but IMO it's not that we got conned or that he wasn't a 90 million pound player. It's more that we just wasted him and tbh I feel a bit for Pogba because I think he could've been viewed completely differently if he played in a more competent team over this period. He always needed to be in a more free role in a midfield 3, not one of the deeper 2. Not saying he was as good as him obviously, but stylistically Pogba was always quite similar to Zidane. It's as if we bought Zidane and played him in a midfield 2 and expected the midfield to be fine, and then picked fights with him whenever we were careless at the back. Which is probably the most frustrating part.
Now we have Bruno, but Pogba should always have been played as the most advanced of a midfield 3. It's where he came out at Juve. It was basically how he shone for France on his way to winning a world cup with Kante and Matuidi around him. And it's where he's brought his best period of form for United (18/19 when Ole first took over). 2.5 years of Mourinho wasting him and pissing him off, and then way too many injuries since then have hurt him, but also the lack of a proper settled United team that can give him a good platform.
He'll get a bigger signing on fee as a free agent, though. I imagine the exact reason why he hasn't signed yet is precisely because we aren't offering him and Raiola the packet they're after. There's definitely been murmurings about money, though, just recently reports suggested he wanted £500k a week. You aren't going to get concrete evidence obviously, you never do. With that said since joining he's been amongst the top paid players consistently, it's hardly surprising there's been few arguments. What the feck would he/Raiola have to complain about?! He's been fantastically well recompensed. By all accounts he's taken the piss with his recent demands.
I find it hard to believe there isn't a buyer out there that'd take him this summer for £40/50m. He's one of the most talented midfielders in the world in his prime years - practically every big club across Europe would want him. Quite a few teams in a state of transition following rubbish campaigns, too. Rumours circulating today about Hakimi going for £63m ffs, Pogba for £40m is a snip! Likewise I've seen nothing about him leaving this summer but I can't see why United and another big club wouldn't want to make it happen over the next couple of months at a discounted rate. I don't think Pogba is a supervillain and I don't expect him to sign a contract just to be nice, but his agent is Raiola so people will automatically assume the worst, which is hardly surprising.
He needs to turn up more than 8 or 9 games a season. He never has.
Why would he move this summer? Where can he go? Barca, Real Madrid, Juventus and Inter have no money this window. I can see him renew his contract if Man Utd is willing to meet his salary demand.As much as we want to...he won't move this year. He will sign a lucrative contract with either PSG or Juventus end of next season.
Does £40m qualify as a large sum? For Madrid, Barca, PSG, and Juventus, none of which won their respective domestic leagues or did much of anything in Europe, having Pogba would go along way in making them a lot more competitive next season. Seems like a bit of open goal for one of the big boys.
Sure, not a normal 10. But he's definitely more free to do his thing than Kante/Tolisso or Rabiot or, or Matuidi beforehand. Pogba played like a normal CM except he had the support of 2 hard working and more competent defensive players around him to make up for his faults there. How often does France use Pogba in a midfield 2 with 4 actual attackers in front? It's usually 3 attackers and the other player being more someone who can help solidify the midfield.
De Bruyne is objectively a better player, that's fine to admit. But Pep doesn't play him in a double pivot, as it doesn't get the best out of him. Pep is also a much different coach than pretty much anyone else, and one of the few who can play David Silva next to De Bruyne in midfield (in front of a holding mid) and it still be balanced. Put Pogba with them, and he'd be brilliant too.This has been brought up by other posters. You could play Kevin De Bruyne in a range of positions and pep has and he plays well. Yet Pogba has to play in a certain position to get the best out of him! No. He is just not good enough. And he is especially not 90 million pounds good enough.
He does not even work hard enough for starters, which is a huge reason why he seems to under perform.
This has been brought up by other posters. You could play Kevin De Bruyne in a range of positions and pep has and he plays well. Yet Pogba has to play in a certain position to get the best out of him! No. He is just not good enough. And he is especially not 90 million pounds good enough.
He does not even work hard enough for starters, which is a huge reason why he seems to under perform.
It's more balanced because he has 2 others there who are more naturals defensively with positioning and all round defensive ability to support him though. It's both personnel and system. He is more "free" as he isn't just one of 2 in a double pivot, but there are 3 and sure as you say, they share the responsibility, but its much more easier for him to share it around Kante (the best defensive midfielder/covering midfielder in the past 10 years) and an all rounder like Tolisso or Rabiot, than it is when he partners just Fred, or just McTominay, and is behind Bruno. By virtue of the players around him and just having an extra midfielder who by nature is less attacking than Pogba, he has more freedom to play his natural game in midfield.He isn't more free, it's the opposite. He plays with less structure at United and more freedom compared to what happens with France particularly in 4231 because Matuidi was the one stretching the play and playing box to box not Pogba. In the 4312, Tolisso, Kanté and Pogba are interchangeable and they all have to respect the balance of the team none of them is free, neither sits but neither has more freedom.
The difference for Pogba is simply that France midfields are more balanced, he isn't freer, everyone has to support the players around and every player has the ability to do it.
He’s out in a number of very good defensive performances just this season. I’m sure ‘laziness’ will always ‘lazily’ be used against him, but he’s worked plenty hard this season, and played well in both the centre of midfield and left midfield. This ‘he can’t play in midfield’ thing is exaggerated. He’s had plenty of good games in midfield, many just this season. It clearly isn’t his strength though, he is better when not in a double pivot, as I suspect Kevin de Bruyne is too.
It's more balanced because he has 2 others there who are more naturals defensively with positioning and all round defensive ability to support him though. It's both personnel and system. He is more "free" as he isn't just one of 2 in a double pivot, but there are 3 and sure as you say, they share the responsibility, but its much more easier for him to share it around Kante (the best defensive midfielder/covering midfielder in the past 10 years) and an all rounder like Tolisso or Rabiot, than it is when he partners just Fred, or just McTominay, and is behind Bruno. By virtue of the players around him and just having an extra midfielder who by nature is less attacking than Pogba, he has more freedom to play his natural game in midfield.
He isn't more free, it's the opposite. He plays with less structure at United and more freedom compared to what happens with France particularly in 4231 because Matuidi was the one stretching the play and playing box to box not Pogba. In the 4312, Tolisso, Kanté and Pogba are interchangeable and they all have to respect the balance of the team none of them is free, neither sits but neither has more freedom.
The difference for Pogba is simply that France midfields are more balanced, he isn't freer, everyone has to support the players around and every player has the ability to do it.
He does not near work as hard as Fred or Mctominah. We have to put one of them beside him to cover for him.
My liverpool mate cannot believe we have persisted with Pogba. Never misses an opportunity to stick the knife in and twist it to me, because everyone else bar some United fans can see Pogba is not what he is hyped up to be. He is a 40 million pound player, that does not work hard enough.
Look at the Europa league final. Pogba should have been running the show and numerous commentators said Mc Tominah looked much better on the night.
I don't think more balanced is appropriate. If we were to map between them, it'd be like France playing
------- Griezmann -------
--- Kante --- Pogba ----
Deschamps might not chose to play that way because he's a pretty conservative manager and in general international football games are more cagey.
This season, after he overcame COVID issues, he played very well. In fact, I feel like one of the reasons we fell away that far was because he got injured. We could have certainly run City much closer if we had him available.That’s true. He doesn’t work as hard as Fred and McTominay.
Even if you were right, a £40m player is a good player, not one to be laughed at. Your Liverpool mate’s midfield is full of £40m players.
That’s a painful thought....unless both he and the team improves its consistency. Bruno is statistically excellent but if we rely on him for performance, he’s hit and miss over a fifteen minute period. He ranges from the sublime to the ridiculous in the space of five minutes and his form this year has not been great.As good as Pogba is Man Utd should never have bought him back of Juve.
It's not all Pogba's fault it hasn't worked out. We bought Paul, seemingly, with no clue of how we would get the best out of him.
Now he's part of a team that plays best through Bruno. Which means he has to play to a #10 when he'd rather be one of two #8s.
It's a consequence of crap planning. Like many issues post Fergie. We have bought so many big names in the past eight years. Often without any clue of how to make them into a cohesive team.
We bought Pogba for his stardom, then tried to make him into something he isnt because the rest of the parts around him suit a style that ain't actually that good for him.
As good as Pogba is Man Utd should never have bought him back of Juve.
It's not all Pogba's fault it hasn't worked out. We bought Paul, seemingly, with no clue of how we would get the best out of him.
Now he's part of a team that plays best through Bruno. Which means he has to play to a #10 when he'd rather be one of two #8s.
It's a consequence of crap planning. Like many issues post Fergie. We have bought so many big names in the past eight years. Often without any clue of how to make them into a cohesive team.
We bought Pogba for his stardom, then tried to make him into something he isnt because the rest of the parts around him suit a style that ain't actually that good for him.
That’s a painful thought....unless both he and the team improves its consistency. Bruno is statistically excellent but if we rely on him for performance, he’s hit and miss over a fifteen minute period. He ranges from the sublime to the ridiculous in the space of five minutes and his form this year has not been great.
If we rely on Bruno for impact then absolutely, if we rely on him to make the team tick then that would be a huge mistake.
That’s true. He doesn’t work as hard as Fred and McTominay.
Even if you were right, a £40m player is a good player, not one to be laughed at. Your Liverpool mate’s midfield is full of £40m players.
Why? And what does that mean, in real terms?
Should never have went near him. If Ferguson was in charge he would never have sanctioned it. It made the club look desperate and weak.
Yea 40 million pound players that work really hard.
In that sense Pogba and Bruno are similar. For the same reasons that I had doubts about Pogba's transfer, I don't know if Bruno is a long term solution for us, though he has time to be more consistent.
Mate, you can't say 'I've not heard anything solid, therefore it's not true'. Basically everything discussed here is conjecture, beyond the 90 minutes played on the actual pitch. If you choose to ignore what's written by journalists in the media that's your prerogative, God knows they've done enough to turn people away. The facts are his contract is nearing its end, his agent is Raiola, there were multiple reports suddenly flooding the media at the same time (about his wage demands), he's a megastar that's consistently courted other teams - it's hardly beyond the realms of possibility his people are talking to the press and putting stuff out there. Dictating the narrative in the media is a massive part of negotiations nowadays, it's not a secret. So yeah, I think you can say there's accounts suggesting this is the case. If you don't buy it more power to you.There is a lot of conjecture there. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that we are at some negotiation sticking point over £500k, and let’s not pretend that is the way the story is being written either. The caf have, all season, picked a figure that they know will anger everyone, and then proceeded to make a number of posts saying ‘well if it’s a contract of x amount, he can go, he’s not worth it’, without the actual conversation ever going there. So no, not ‘by all accounts he’s taken the piss with his recent demands’. By no accounts at all, would be closer to the truth.
You can say you find it hard that there isn’t a buyer, but I am here working on what we see. Who/where is this buyer? You say ‘you don’t see why a club wouldn’t take him for 40/50m’ - do you even know what United would want for him? Who says that would be enough?
If we hear nothing all summer, and no club tries to sign him for a fee that we find reasonable, his options are literally as follows:
- extend his contract.
- fulfil his contract.
If he wants to leave, the first option will not be taken, of course. But I’m sure that if he wants to leave, he’d happily go to Madrid this summer if they agree a fee with United for him. If United turn around and refuse to accept a bid, which they did two summers ago, then he continues. There’s not even any Raiola conversation to be had at this stage, he is our player for now as he’s still under contract. Him being one of our better performers this season would indicate that he is able to fulfil his contractual obligations. He can’t just sign for ‘someone’. They need to make a deal, and one that we are satisfied with.
Personally I think we win it if we had Fred instead of pogba.
