[Withnail]

I just don't get why so many people are so ignorant to the fact that he's not served us well and has let a lot of crap been said about us. Like I have said on this thread a lot we seem to have people who like Pogba more than the club. It's like a cult and Martial has something similar with him. I just don't get it.

I thought Pogba was brilliant second half last night. I have said that numerous times. I just don't let bias rule my head and can see the big picture.

It's not that people like Pogba or Martial more than the club. You're doing yourself a disservice by denigrating the opinions of those who disagree with you with this kind of stuff and it weakens your argument. Obviously everyone sees the talent and wants those players to do well but some express it differently.

The constant barrage of criticism over every little thing gets wearing for some and what happens is you get a backlash against the criticism. So while they may be valid points on some level, some people don't want to hear it, especially when the player has been playing well in the current system. You can end up sounding like a broken record if your 'big picture' thinking is at odds with the current reality of the player's performance.

 

[roonster09]

I don't. He's been better last few months but still that isn't enough for me to put my head up my backside and pretend everything is rosy and he's been a top signing. Overall he's been a fairly average signing for us due to consistency and value.

And he's scored 6 goals and got 6 assists in 39 apps. Let's not go overboard eh?

You say you are unbiased and always dodge questions about Iniesta and how you rate him.

What about Kroos and Modric, are they good enough? Or as good as McTominay or soucek?

 

[Posh Red]

You say you are unbiased and always dodge questions about Iniesta and how you rate him.

What about Kroos and Modric, are they good enough? Or as good as McTominay or soucek?

I wonder who would fetch more on the open market right now? Surely McTomminay because he’s scored more goals this season.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

You say you are unbiased and always dodge questions about Iniesta and how you rate him.

What about Kroos and Modric, are they good enough? Or as good as McTominay or soucek?

You see this is where you lose all credibility with childish comments. I have always said Pogba was a far more talented player than likes of Mctomminay and Fred etc. Of course he bloody is. I have far higher expectations on Pogba than those players. This is just straw clutching at its finest.

If you asked the entire UK football fanbase to rate Paul Pogba's United career out of 10 what would they give him? Be honest.

 

[Adam-Utd]

First goal he's scored at Old Trafford in 2 years according to BT Sport. Incredible statistic.

He was brilliant in 2nd half tonight absolutely no doubt about it but 1 goal at Old Trafford in 2 years is woeful for a player of his ability.

I honestly don't think giving him the rumoured biggest contact in our history is wise. Bruno will want same if not more and who could honestly blame him.

Pogba has to play like the 2nd half more. A lot more. Then we can all be really happy.

He's been injured for about a year of that, so it makes it sound more drastic.

Playing further up he'll get more goals and assists, we saw that when he played as a 10 under Ole at the start of his reign.

Pogba is looking happy, he's working hard for the team and himself. Nobody can complain about him lately.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I wonder who would fetch more on the open market right now? Surely McTomminay because he’s scored more goals this season.

Pogba is a way better player than Mctomminay. The fact he's scored 1 less goal basically backs up my point though. Mctomminay has played deep all season and still managed to score 7 goals. So what's Pogba's excuse to only have 6 when lets be honest he's granted more freedom that Scotty on the pitch.

Talent wise he's in a different league. Pogba has to produce more on the pitch. Go ask rival fans what they think of Pogba's time at United. You will get a wake up call.

 

[roonster09]

You see this is where you lose all credibility with childish comments. I have always said Pogba was a far more talented player than likes of Mctomminay and Fred etc. Of course he bloody is. I have far higher expectations on Pogba than those players. This is just straw clutching at its finest.

If you asked the entire UK football fanbase to rate Paul Pogba's United career out of 10 what would they give him? Be honest.

Again dodged the question. Iniesta is more talented than all the players, I asked you a simple question, just like many others did. How do you rate Iniesta, Modric, Kroos?

And don't even talk about credibility, something you have no clue about.

Lets see if we can get opinion on the 3 midfield greats of last 20 years.

 

[laughtersassassin]

That games a perfect example of why goals and assists alone don't tell a full story.

Even if he didn't score that header he was arguably the best player on the pitch. Yet he would have finished with no goals or assists.

 

[Rozay]

It's weird and also surprising it took so long to follow the pattern.

Also Pogba scored 28 goals averaging 381 mins per goal, playing so many games in deeper midfield --> Not good enough, not enough goal threat.

KdB - 41 goals averaging 336 mins per goal. Great player, GOAT, consistently goal threat. He plays as attacking mid every game.

p.s - Now I know few folks will throw assists stats when they didn't bother to do that when comparing McTominay and Pogba's goal scoring record this season

Any football fan that tries to insinuate that McTominay is better than Pogba just isn’t worth listening to at all. And there are plenty of them on here.

Scott’s goals are being mentioned but pretty sure Pogba has matched even that metric for this season now. And even if he hasn’t, what are we trying to say? That Scott is better?

Now Pogba hasn’t scored enough ‘home goals’. Okay, but what about the away goals then? He’s also missed a year’s worth of football in that two year spell that keeps being mentioned but again - even if that were not the case, it is still idiotic to try and use goal stats to appraise him. He scored relatively late yesterday. Are we saying that until that point, he was playing poorly?

The ‘consistency’ argument is similarly bollocks. He’s been consistently very good this season, yet the post match praise is always ‘excellent when he decides...’, or ‘when he turns it on’ etc. Meanwhile, all of our other good players are apparently assumed to just be brilliant every game. In fact, there’s a section that use consistency to imply Scott has greater value, as while Pogba is ‘more talented’, it’s a case of ‘when he feels like’, so Scott is preferred, who can barely string 3 good games together himself. Then there’s the fact that a ‘good game’ for Scott McTominay and a good game for Pogba are completely different levels anyway.

What this season has shown me is that it’s clear that for a small (shrinking, even) group, Pogba will never simply be unobjectively top player. And praise will be backhanded, and it’s best to just leave that lot. The conversation is becoming boring for me, let them think what they want. The thing is, I don’t even think they think that, not deep down. They have just picked a side and are now committed.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Again dodged the question. Iniesta is more talented than all the players, I asked you a simple question, just like many others did. How do you rate Iniesta, Modric, Kroos?

And don't even talk about credibility, something you have no clue about.

Lets see if we can get opinion on the 3 midfield greats of last 20 years.

As if you'd put him in with those three? And you say I have no clue.

Paul Pogba can't even win the Player of the year at an average United team in 5 years at the club, let alone best player in the league and you're comparing him with some of the best in the world. Jesus wept.

He's been a 6 out of 10 signing over the 5 years. 6.5 at best. Is that world class to you?

 

[Rozay]

I don't. He's been better last few months but still that isn't enough for me to put my head up my backside and pretend everything is rosy and he's been a top signing. Overall he's been a fairly average signing for us due to consistency and value.

And he's scored 6 goals and got 6 assists in 39 apps. Let's not go overboard eh?

I’ve asked you this before, and you didn’t answer then, so i’ll try again.

Who do you think is/was a better player - Bruno or Zidane, and why?

 

[AgentSmith]

I don't. He's been better last few months but still that isn't enough for me to put my head up my backside and pretend everything is rosy and he's been a top signing. Overall he's been a fairly average signing for us due to consistency and value.

And he's scored 6 goals and got 6 assists in 39 apps. Let's not go overboard eh?

It’s not going particularly overboard to recognise that his contributions have been vital to our results this season. I already detailed this in a different post to you that you completely ignored, so let’s try again.

It’s a modest total but they’ve been absolutely vital contributions and they’ve come largely from a deeper midfield role. He's also been injured for a significant portion of the season so 5 goals and 4 assists is a reasonable return for a midfielder being used the way we do with Pogba.

Especially when you look at the actual consequences of some of those contributions:

• Home to Brighton - Pogba’s assist helps us win the game
• AC Milan away - Pogba’s goal and performance in the 2nd half won us the game
• Fulham away - Pogba’s wonder goal won us the game
• Burnley away - Pogba’s goal won us the game
• Home to Villa - Pogba wins the penalty which wins us the game
• West Ham away - Pogba’s fantastic goal put us level after being thoroughly outplayed in the 1st half and we went on to win the match 3-1

You take away any of those goals or assists and we’re potentially out of the Europa League and in a horrible dog fight for 4th spot. You include those contributions and we have an easy Europa League quarter-final match, with a great shot of winning the whole thing, while sitting comfortably in 2nd in the league. Using the perspective of quality, not quantity, is a better way to look at Pogba's impact this season.

You can then add an assist against Granada and a goal against Roma to that as well as 2 assists in the league, against Spurs (should have had two) and Burnley. And that doesn’t even taken into account how instrumental to our overall attacking play Pogba’s been in those games, which was well demonstrated by our performance against Leeds with him on the bench.

You’ve made 19 posts since we won 6-2 in a European semi-final and 17 of them have been laying into Pogba or his ‘fan bois’. You might want to rethink who has the agenda.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

That games a perfect example of why goals and assists alone don't tell a full story.

Even if he didn't score that header he was arguably the best player on the pitch. Yet he would have finished with no goals or assists.

No Bruno was easily. Scored 2, made 2 and could have had 2 more assists but for poor finishing from others. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Pogba was very good second half but Bruno was on another level.

 

[BlackBen]

It's not that people like Pogba or Martial more than the club. You're doing yourself a disservice by denigrating the opinions of those who disagree with you with this kind of stuff and it weakens your argument. Obviously everyone sees the talent and wants those players to do well but some express it differently.

The constant barrage of criticism over every little thing gets wearing for some and what happens is you get a backlash against the criticism. So while they may be valid points on some level, some people don't want to hear it, especially when the player has been playing well in the current system. You can end up sounding like a broken record if your 'big picture' thinking is at odds with the current reality of the player's performance.

This. Thank you for saying what I wanted to say but putting it even better.

 

[roonster09]

Any football fan that tries to insinuate that McTominay is better than Pogba just isn’t worth listening to at all. And there are plenty of them on here.

Scott’s goals are being mentioned but pretty sure Pogba has matched even that metric for this season now. And even if he hasn’t, what are we trying to say? That Scott is better?

Now Pogba hasn’t scored enough ‘home goals’. Okay, but what about the away goals then? He’s also missed a year’s worth of football in that two year spell that keeps being mentioned but again - even if that were not the case, it is still idiotic to try and use goal stats to appraise him. He scored relatively late yesterday. Are we saying that until that point, he was playing poorly?

The ‘consistency’ argument is similarly bollocks. He’s been consistently very good this season, yet the post match praise is always ‘excellent when he decides...’, or ‘when he turns it on’ etc. Meanwhile, all of our other good players are apparently assumed to just be brilliant every game. In fact, there’s a section that use consistency to imply Scott has greater value, as while Pogba is ‘more talented’, it’s a case of ‘when he feels like’, so Scott is preferred, who can barely string 3 good games together himself. Then there’s the fact that a ‘good game’ for Scott McTominay and a good game for Pogba are completely different levels anyway.

What this season has shown me is that it’s clear that for a small (shrinking, even) group, Pogba will never simply be unobjectively top player. And praise will be backhanded, and it’s best to just leave that lot. The conversation is becoming boring for me, let them think what they want. The thing is, I don’t even think they think that, not deep down. They have just picked a side and are now committed.

Yeah, this backhanded comments are hilarious. Instead of just saying they are agenda driven posters, they come up with bs like "I rate Pogba very highly, so I expect much better performance" nonsense. These are the same guys who said Pogba averages 5 good performance in a season.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Again...superb. I don't know what his role was in the second half (#10? free role? ) but keeping him will be the biggest transfer we can make in the summer.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I’ve asked you this before, and you didn’t answer then, so i’ll try again.

Who do you think is/was a better player - Bruno or Zidane, and why?

Zidane obviously.

Did you really bring up Zidane to defend Pogba? Hahahahaha.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

As if you'd put him in with those three? And you say I have no clue.

Paul Pogba can't even win the Player of the year at an average United team in 5 years at the club, let alone best player in the league and you're comparing him with some of the best in the world. Jesus wept.

He's been a 6 out of 10 signing over the 5 years. 6.5 at best. Is that world class to you?

Does this not get exhausting?

You don't rate Pogba as highly as others, noted.

 

[roonster09]

As if you'd put him in with those three? And you say I have no clue.

Paul Pogba can't even win the Player of the year at an average United team in 5 years at the club, let alone best player in the league and you're comparing him with some of the best in the world. Jesus wept.

He's been a 6 out of 10 signing over the 5 years. 6.5 at best. Is that world class to you?

fecking hell, how thick you must be to not understand a simple question.

You are banging about goals for a CM. So a simple question, how do you rate Modric, Kroos, Iniesta? This has nothing to do with Pogba, McTominay, Soucek. It's just about 3 of the great CMs of last 20 years.

 

[Rozay]

As if you'd put him in with those three? And you say I have no clue.

Paul Pogba can't even win the Player of the year at an average United team in 5 years at the club, let alone best player in the league and you're comparing him with some of the best in the world. Jesus wept.

He's been a 6 out of 10 signing over the 5 years. 6.5 at best. Is that world class to you?

Has he been a 6 in THIS year - the year that we are in? Or is your way of assessing now to use a 5 year period? So if a player is having a good season, it is ‘yea, but what about 2016?’. Because I’ll be honest, I’ve not seen you apply such a metric to any other thread on here.

Surely at some point, you will see it is becoming ridiculous to come after every good Pogba performance with your ‘ifs and buts’?

 

[Mainoldo]

Pogba is an attack minded player. Scoring goals and making goals is his job surely.

He's not done what he did today enough for me. Why do his fanboys find it so hard to admit it?

He makes goals. How many goals did Zidane score a season??

 

[Rozay]

Zidane obviously.

Did you really bring up Zidane to defend Pogba? Hahahahaha.

It isn’t obvious. Not from someone who has put a full stop next to a midfielders contribution by saying ‘he’s only scored x amount, so therefore’. I asked you to explain WHY Zidane is better than Bruno, which may be a more helpful exercise.

 

[Sunny Jim]

His best position so far maybe? let's keep it that way rather than playing Dan James on the right.

i hope we Greenwood on the right. and keep Pogba in the team.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Any football fan that tries to insinuate that McTominay is better than Pogba just isn’t worth listening to at all. And there are plenty of them on here.

Scott’s goals are being mentioned but pretty sure Pogba has matched even that metric for this season now. And even if he hasn’t, what are we trying to say? That Scott is better?

Now Pogba hasn’t scored enough ‘home goals’. Okay, but what about the away goals then? He’s also missed a year’s worth of football in that two year spell that keeps being mentioned but again - even if that were not the case, it is still idiotic to try and use goal stats to appraise him. He scored relatively late yesterday. Are we saying that until that point, he was playing poorly?

The ‘consistency’ argument is similarly bollocks. He’s been consistently very good this season, yet the post match praise is always ‘excellent when he decides...’, or ‘when he turns it on’ etc. Meanwhile, all of our other good players are apparently assumed to just be brilliant every game. In fact, there’s a section that use consistency to imply Scott has greater value, as while Pogba is ‘more talented’, it’s a case of ‘when he feels like’, so Scott is preferred, who can barely string 3 good games together himself. Then there’s the fact that a ‘good game’ for Scott McTominay and a good game for Pogba are completely different levels anyway.

What this season has shown me is that it’s clear that for a small (shrinking, even) group, Pogba will never simply be unobjectively top player. And praise will be backhanded, and it’s best to just leave that lot. The conversation is becoming boring for me, let them think what they want. The thing is, I don’t even think they think that, not deep down. They have just picked a side and are now committed.

NOBODY has said this. Nobody at all. Paul Pogba is one of our most talented players. Expectations on him are higher just like they were on Rooney etc. What is it about this you don't understand? When you come in for 90m and with all the hype you have to deliver. He hasn't a lot more than he has. All the pundits seem to agree with me.

I simply used Mctomminay's 7 goals as a way to say I want more from Pogba. And Mctomminay plays just as deep as he does, deeper even, so there can be no excuse.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

What a player, he played so well last night, he's been extremely good this year and being with good players around him, like Shaw and Bruno & Cavani and Rashford, the team benefits from it as good players play off each other.

Currently we are seeing a team with creative outlets (Bruno & Pogba) plus an in-form Cavani, and Shaw who has become the best LB in England.

 

[Withnail]

Zidane obviously.

Did you really bring up Zidane to defend Pogba? Hahahahaha.

Did you watch Zidane play much?

 

[Nou_Camp99]

It isn’t obvious. Not from someone who has put a full stop next to a midfielders contribution by saying ‘he’s only scored x amount, so therefore’. I asked you to explain WHY Zidane is better than Bruno, which may be a more helpful exercise.

Yeah it is. Bringing up Zidane is laughable. Pogba's not even be deemed good enough to win United's in house player of the year for 5 years despite us being very average in this time. He's a million miles away from being talked about with Zidane and Iniesta. He's a million miles away from Scholes. Carrick actually was better for us than Pogba has been.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Did you watch Zidane play much?

Yeah a lot. Paul Pogba isn't fit to lace his boots. Nor Scholes.

 

[roonster09]

Can i get the answer @Nou_Camp99

How do you rate Iniesta, Modric, Kroos? I didn't see them scoring many goals and before you comes up with same nonsense, this has nothing to do with Pogba.

 

[Rozay]

NOBODY has said this. Nobody at all. Paul Pogba is one of our most talented players. Expectations on him are higher just like they were on Rooney etc. What is it about this you don't understand? When you come in for 90m and with all the hype you have to deliver. He hasn't a lot more than he has. All the pundits seem to agree with me.

I simply used Mctomminay's 7 goals as a way to say I want more from Pogba. And Mctomminay plays just as deep as he does, deeper even, so there can be no excuse.

Plenty of posters have said this, across this forum, over the last two years. We have had all sorts of threads deliberately set up to entice this sort of opinion, and many have obliged. Like ‘who are our top 3 midfielders’ or ‘who is our best midfielder after Bruno’, which is then followed by a group of people trying to forward a case that, while Pogba has ‘more talent...’, then comes the bullshit.

And I’m still waiting for you to explain WHY you think Zidane is ‘obviously’ better than Bruno.

 

[AgentSmith]

Can i get the answer @Nou_Camp99

How do you rate Iniesta, Modric, Kroos? I didn't see them scoring many goals and before you comes up with same nonsense, this has nothing to do with Pogba.

Don’t hold your breathe, @Nou_Camp99 just ignores posts that contradict their narrative or moves the goal posts to reframe the question.

 

[Solius]

Yeah a lot. Paul Pogba isn't fit to lace his boots. Nor Scholes.

I reckon he could lace the boots pretty well. Do you think he gets someone to tie his before every game? Doubt it.

Checkmate.

 

[Rozay]

Yeah it is. Bringing up Zidane is laughable. Pogba's not even be deemed good enough to win United's in house player of the year for 5 years despite us being very average in this time. He's a million miles away from being talked about with Zidane and Iniesta. He's a million miles away from Scholes. Carrick actually was better for us than Pogba has been.

I’ll ask again. What makes Zidane better than Bruno?

 

[OverratedOpinion]

NOBODY has said this. Nobody at all. Paul Pogba is one of our most talented players. Expectations on him are higher just like they were on Rooney etc. What is it about this you don't understand? When you come in for 90m and with all the hype you have to deliver. He hasn't a lot more than he has. All the pundits seem to agree with me.

I simply used Mctomminay's 7 goals as a way to say I want more from Pogba. And Mctomminay plays just as deep as he does, deeper even, so there can be no excuse.

You realise the hypocrisy that you are bothered by people confusing this then you jump down people's throats for mentioning players like Zidane and Iniesta and begin accusing them of saying Pogba is in their league? They are doing the exact same thing in using those players to highlight that even some of the best ever attacking midfielders were not regular goalscorers.

NOBODY has said Pogba is as good as Zidane.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Can i get the answer @Nou_Camp99

How do you rate Iniesta, Modric, Kroos? I didn't see them scoring many goals and before you comes up with same nonsense, this has nothing to do with Pogba.

So Paul Pogba has been a great signing then? Is that what you're saying? Why is it then that almost every former player turned pundit on TV says what I do then? What do they all seem to agree that he's a talented player that simply hasn't turned up enough?

Talent is there but more often that not it's not been turned into performances.

I think I rate Carrick's signing for us higher than Pogba. I think most Utd fans would.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I’ll ask again. What makes Zidane better than Bruno?

Because he's probably the best midfielder I have ever seen. It's not all about goals obviously.

So Pogba is better than Bruno then? Is that what you're saying?

 

[roonster09]

So Paul Pogba has been a great signing then? Is that what you're saying? Why is it then that almost every former player turned pundit on TV says what I do then? What do they all seem to agree that he's a talented player that simply hasn't turned up enough?

Talent is there but more often that not it's not been turned into performances.

I think I rate Carrick's signing for us higher than Pogba. I think most Utd fans would.

Can i get the answer @Nou_Camp99

How do you rate Iniesta, Modric, Kroos? I didn't see them scoring many goals and before you comes up with same nonsense, this has nothing to do with Pogba.

You are just a troll

 

[BlackBen]

Yeah it is. Bringing up Zidane is laughable. Pogba's not even be deemed good enough to win United's in house player of the year for 5 years despite us being very average in this time. He's a million miles away from being talked about with Zidane and Iniesta. He's a million miles away from Scholes. Carrick actually was better for us than Pogba has been.

Why? According to your logic, goals and assists are what midfielders should be judged by and Carrick had 24 goals and 40 assists in 481 appearances for United which is incredibly poor per your logic. So how has he been better than Pogba?

 

[Solius]

Because he's probably the best midfielder I have ever seen. It's not all about goals obviously.

So Pogba is better than Bruno then? Is that what you're saying?

I feel like I could re-arrange your posts to make it look like two separate people arguing.

 

[roonster09]

I reckon he could lace the boots pretty well. Do you think he gets someone to tie his before every game? Doubt it.

Checkmate.

90 million, he is shit at tying his laces. I have seen his boot come off couple of times, 90 million and he can't even tie his lace properly like McTominay.