Stats don't tell the whole story. Pogba had a clear role under both managers and put in some world class performances especially in the CL. We were supposed to have the prime Pogba but he's going backwards under Mourinho more so the big games.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Not all about the stats tbf, but I agree with your point. Stats wise he will be loaded up here or should be as Mourinho uses him as the focal point and plays through him. But he's still being used incorrectly, while he was used properly at Juve. He was younger then and not at his best but more consistent probably as he wasn't the main man and had his own role that he excelled at without leaving the midfield a mess. He has to realize what he Is as a player, and Mourinho has to as well. I get your point about he never posted the numbers to be given that creative role, but that's the risk and you hope if you play him In an advanced creative role with the proper platform behind him, he can show that creativity and goal threat consistently as he progresses as a player. I'm completely serious when I say we should compare him positionally to the likes of coutinho, eriksen, de Bruyne, Silva, etc.. Even fabregas to an extent. None should be used as a 2 and as deeper players like how we keep trying to jam pogba in, nor would most managers think of using them like that. Mourinho tbf tried it with Fabregas and Matic couldn't handle the defensive work rate, and the same thing happened now. Fabregas at least has more of the midfielder mentality with his passing and decision making then Pogba has, so he can do the role better, but it's still far from ideal. Playing them with the proper platform for them to do their thing is the only way to get the most out of them, and we need to start doing that. Pogba has shown time and time again that just can't handle playing as a central midfielder.
Honestly I'd rather play Herrera or carrick at his age if we are using a midfield 2, because they at least won't leave us looking that shambolic defensively. Matic as well can't handle being part of a 2 clearly. So I have no idea why we keep insisting on it.
Mourinho knows he needs to play Pogba in a midfield 3 to get the best out of him. That's why we're looking for a third midfielder in the summer. He was just wrong in his judgement that starting an in-form Lingard (therefore basically using a 4231) would hopefully paper over the cracks and provide more pros than cons.
There is a 20 second video on Facebook of Jose being very forceful with him on the sideline, giving him instructions, flapping his arms around and pointing to the centre of the pitch.
Soon after that Pogba was taken off. He clearly didn't follow the instructions.
Soon after that Pogba was taken off. He clearly didn't follow the instructions.
There’s no excuses for Pogba’s performance last night, certainly not the system. People going on about him not being a central midfielder, or not being able to ‘play in a 2’. How long have some of you been watching football.
It’s not that complicated and he’s more than capable of giving a performance, as he’s shown many times.
Last night was another bottle job where he’s not willing to put in the graft. It’s not like he was great going forward, but leaving us exposed at the back due to tactical indiscipline. The guy was hiding once again. In any other position, in any area of the pitch, it would have been the same. He’d have been getting hounded and would have lost the ball repeatedly
Are we seriously saying there’s this little triangle in the left side of the pitch, and if he’s taken out of it he can’t kick the ball the same? Utter rubbish.
The problem was him strolling around not getting stuck in. No excuses.
It’s not that complicated and he’s more than capable of giving a performance, as he’s shown many times.
Last night was another bottle job where he’s not willing to put in the graft. It’s not like he was great going forward, but leaving us exposed at the back due to tactical indiscipline. The guy was hiding once again. In any other position, in any area of the pitch, it would have been the same. He’d have been getting hounded and would have lost the ball repeatedly
Are we seriously saying there’s this little triangle in the left side of the pitch, and if he’s taken out of it he can’t kick the ball the same? Utter rubbish.
The problem was him strolling around not getting stuck in. No excuses.
Its difficult because he has the raw ability to do both but maybe not the attitude. Its takes the right attitude to be an all action player or even sacrifice yourself. We saw it in his debut and then never again. I don't get it. The Paul we saw vs Southampton would've helped yesterday. He made some mistakes but the energy and effort was crucial.
People criticized Stevie Me for trying to stand out too much but in a way its preferable to have someone who wants to make an impact both offensively and without the ball (even without positional discipline), making those big tackles in big games, running back 30 yards etc.
Perhaps he is too relaxed as he has been given too much leeway/freedom and Jose doesn't fully understand the man that Paul is. He maybe thinks that Paul can be told to be the creative outlet of the team for weeks but can then switch over night to a role of sacrifice the next.
Disagree. Physical presence is not just a defensive thing - see Yaya Toure. Pogba uses his to aid his ability to bring the ball forward and link play, a very rare talent that Pogba is amongst the best in the world at. It is a waste of his talent to expect him to prioritise defensive responsibilities. There is no such thing as a great all rounder in midfield any more. The position has become specialised and it's about getting the right blend of individuals.
Be interesting to see what happens from here on in. Will Pogba change or Mourinho change how he uses Pogba? Taking him off when we're losing in a big game sends a message as much as anything that Mourinho wasn't happy with him.
Agree. No other midfielder in world football at the top level is expected to do both. Just think all over the pitch there are no blends or partnerships and it's the compliments of those playing in positions which is wrong.
Quite reassuring to see
He's not being asked to prioritise them. He's being asked to do the bare minimum you'd expect from a player in his position. I mean, feck it, other clubs have strikers and number 10s who put in more of a defensive shift than Pogba does.
Pogba should leave. He isn't and will never be a CM especially in a midfield 2.
Mourinho is the worst coach for a player like him.
Mourinho is the worst coach for a player like him.
This; his application can be and was infuriating. Pogba has the attributes to play any one of the midfield positions/roles beyond the holding destroyer and is obviously a clever enough footballer, it’s more a matter of whether he fancies it or not - that attitude needs to change. We broke the transfer record for him to play for United, not for United to play for him.
He took 3 or 4 step back ( Juventus 2016 vs Man United 2016 ) in his career to be the main.
Paul was not fighting back against his manager, from this exchange it was more like he just didn't quite get what was being asked of him.
[Jose tells him to wake up, and occupy the position he is supposed to.
Jose: "...back off and [...unclear...]
Jose: "Back up Matic!"
PP: "How, but how?"
Jose: "How? [Looks aghast, disbelieving]
[sentence unclear] ??what were you doing?? ... at that point there? Cover the back four".
"Ok, ok..."
Here we go.
So that excuses a lack of effort?
He clearly does defensive work. That much is obvious. Is it enough? Against a mid table pairing yes. Against 3/4 midfielders at a top 4 challenger? Clearly not, but then why would you buy one of the best midfielders in the world at one thing and expect him to sacrifice that to do something else?
It isn't a lack of effort, he just can't play in this position. Same for Iniesta, Zidane...
RIFT!!!!!!
in Utd dressing room after Pogba and Jose engage in a war of words. Our source who was hiding in the Utd locker room after the match says Jose and Pogba almost got into a fist fight over him getting subbed.
Our sources also suggest that Jose had warned Pogba not to go to his hair stylist 72 hrs before the important match, lest his form drops.
It is known that Jose dislikes young players and is a known monster when it comes to players not sticking to his extremely defensive football
in Utd dressing room after Pogba and Jose engage in a war of words. Our source who was hiding in the Utd locker room after the match says Jose and Pogba almost got into a fist fight over him getting subbed.
Our sources also suggest that Jose had warned Pogba not to go to his hair stylist 72 hrs before the important match, lest his form drops.
It is known that Jose dislikes young players and is a known monster when it comes to players not sticking to his extremely defensive football
Hmmm.
Look, there's no doubt that Pogba can be a little indulgent. Against a team like Spurs, and with a midfield 2, that's going to be pushed big time. So he can definitely buck his ideas up . But i really don't like the system either. That's not be absolve Pogba of all blame, but i just don't like him in a midfield two. It can work on occasion, but in these big games it's just not the answer.
To answer your question though, it's probably going to be a case of Pogba changing. He needs to becomes more defensively aware in some of these games. He's certainly capable of it as we've seen. He can have games where he dominates the midfield both on the ball and off it. But the consistency and discipline is lacking sometimes, and that it something that he needs to address. At the end of the day, while i'm not a fan of him in this two man midfield position, Jose picks him there and he needs to perform. It's not the first time he's been found wanting in a game of this magnitude.
He's a proud footballer and a confident guy, so being dragged off at Wembley in a big game like this will certainly make him think.
Stupid question: couldn't he be used as the CAM in the line of 3, behind Lukaku? That's how i use him in FM 
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.What planet are you even on
There is a tremendous lack of effort as well.
The main thing is however that Pogba also can't play in a number 10 role. He tried several times and every time it was rather bad. While Jose must take the main part, bigger one, of the blame because he cannot incorporate Pogba in the team effectively, some of the blame should lie with Pogba, because a top player can't play only one role, in one formation and that's it. It's not doable. Iniesta for example played in different roles, and even when he was not exactly in his best position still contributed loads and loads.
The feck is this shit?
Pogba never played in a midfield 2 with Juventus.
I thought that too actually.
Just because you're Pogba doesn't mean you can get away with performances like last night. He was abysmal and I'm glad Jose was furious at him.
Now you can argue the tactics were all wrong and there's certainly merit to that, but i don't think that excuses just how poor Pogba was. Trotting around the pitch, overhitting every pass, he was awful.
Pogba can play in a midfield 3 and as LM
And again, Iniesta can't perform in a midfield 2.
The second he left the pitch we dropped a level and stopped moving the ball well.
He isn't going to track runners well or be positionally disciplined in a 2 man midfield playing for a manager who doesn't want his team to have a ton of possession. It would be nice if he did, but it can certainly be schemed around.
He isn't going to track runners well or be positionally disciplined in a 2 man midfield playing for a manager who doesn't want his team to have a ton of possession. It would be nice if he did, but it can certainly be schemed around.
That was somehow a good thing to see Jose angry with Pogba. I really don't know what is the problem here with Paul, cant play in mid 2, cant play this and that.... He should be able to perform much better at least. I do agree though that he is best in midfield of three. Hmmh.
Did you see our midfield yesterday? You wouldn’t have cos there wasn’t one. Look, we all know Pogba would benefit from being in a 3 (a sitter, a conductor and Paul) and I can accept him - or any other player - having a bad game. But positional discipline and covering vacant spaces, pressing, making yourself available for a pass - these are very basic functions of a midfielder and I just don’t accept that in some conditions he becomes unable to do those things.
Makes you realise how good Scholes was when the likes of Pogba, Pirlo, Iniesta, Xavi etc couldn't play in a midfield two. Yet Scholes, the player that was also apparently rubbish defensively, played in a 2 man midfield in the PL.
He doesn't really clearly do it though. He routinely lets opposition run into our box without even attempting to track. The most basic aspect of defending which he doesn't bother with. Instead he stands 20 yards up field watching do some stupid little jog which is really just him jumping up and down in the same spot.
He simply isn't one of the best in the world at attacking. There are a number of attacking midfielders who are more creative and have better output. Being able to also do some dirty work is what elevates him to the top level, without it he is lacking a bit.
Stupid question: couldn't he be used as the CAM in the line of 3, behind Lukaku? That's how i use him in FM
No, he is best with space to run into and more time on the ball. As a CAM he will be closed down too quick.
Your statement is more a praise for Keane and Carrick, than Scholes himself.
Agree he doesn't try hard enough on defense. Saw Dembele make a driving run from the halfway line all the while being shadowed by Pogba just a few metres away refusing to close him down. He just casually let him waltz pass our midfield
Assists leader in Serie A at 22-23 in AM/LM position
10 goals and 15 assists in 15/16. Way better than Isco, Silva, Iniesta, Hamsik, Draxler at the same time...
If he stayed with Allegri, he would have improved and he would have had even better figures right now...and maybe would have won the ballon d'or.
What a waste
You might be getting this one wrong, if I did not completely blanked out their conversation happened not long after their second goal.
He has huge potential but that's ridiculous to say. Pogba has never had the potential to be that. He's not effective enough or complete enough as a player and I doubt he'll ever be. He can be among the top creative midfielders in the world. But when has Modric ever been close to a ballon d'or? Or Kroos? Pogba isn't close to those and never has been. De Bruyne is the best creative midfielder in the world this season and he's doing it by just being consistent and constantly making the right decisions to go along with the talent. Pogba looks for the highlights instead of making the right decisions and that has to change. But either way, De Bruyne won't win the Ballon D'Or over someone like Messi and it's stupid to think pogba can.Assists leader in Serie A at 22-23 in AM/LM position
10 goals and 15 assists in 15/16. Way better than Isco, Silva, Iniesta, Hamsik, Draxler at the same time...
If he stayed with Allegri, he would have improved and he would have had even better figures right now...and maybe would have won the ballon d'or.
What a waste
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