[Web of Bissaka]

He's fine playing on the right, RCM #8, just as good as on the left.

France have many pacy players making attacking runs in all direction - right, left and centre, for Pogba's pass.
--Contrast this with us,

• Our FBs are too defensive (Valencia off form in attacks, Young too defensive as LB, he's more attacking naturally as RB, Shaw not playing).
• We have no right width, no attacking RB atm and lack of pacy right winger (Rashford doesn't play much at RM/RW, and Mata lacking pace tend to cut inside).
• Our attacks are too narrow, centre-centric usually, sometimes left and centre (If Martial and Rashford play as LM/LW, and Shaw playing).

 

[Velvet Revolver]

He's fine playing on the right, RCM #8, just as good as on the left.

France have many pacy players making attacking runs in all direction - right, left and centre, for Pogba's pass.
--Contrast this with us,

• Our FBs are too defensive (Valencia off form in attacks, Young too defensive as LB, he's more attacking naturally as RB, Shaw not playing).
• We have no right width, no attacking RB atm and lack of pacy right winger (Rashford doesn't play much at RM/RW, and Mata lacking pace tend to cut inside).
• Our attacks are too narrow, centre-centric usually, sometimes left and centre (If Martial and Rashford play as LM/LW, and Shaw playing).

This

Our static style of play and all our attackers occupying central positions doesn't help pogba at all. I have seen instances where he has to hold on to the ball and look around to see no movement and pass it to matic or he instructs players to make runs or occupy spaces but by then the opposition has already made ground.

 

[catmandeu]

This

Our static style of play and all our attackers occupying central positions doesn't help pogba at all. I have seen instances where he has to hold on to the ball and look around to see no movement and pass it to matic or he instructs players to make runs or occupy spaces but by then the opposition has already made ground.

Exactly. We blame pogba or lukaku or Sanchez but what we lack is structure in the field. We just roam around and crowd the centre spots. While that's not same with our defence as our defence always have a structure to negate oncoming attack. I sometimes think Jose forgot to attack. We need an attacking coach more than 3 midfielders .

 

[edgar allan]

Damn comparing Pogba to Memphis? Pogba agenda has gone into overdrive.

He bullied the arsenal defence and got an assist when we most needed it, effectively killing the game off for us.

Again, done when we were under great pressure - conditions under which @edgar allan stipulated Pogba couldn't do anything.

Critical reading comprehension is a rare thing on this forum, it seems.

I prefer to judge his performances by watching him on the pitch.

Everyone appreciates that he has great skill and potential and he can produce a great pass like the one during the week.

However for me his performances this year have been mostly disappointing.
He started the season really well with some good performances at home. But in so many games since especially against better opposition he has gone missing. The arsenal game being the exception to the rule.

 

[Stacks]

Good point there. For large parts of Pogba's time at Juventus, he wasn't the star. He was surrounded by Pirlo and Vidal who were both better than him at the time, and Marchisio, who has a huge reputation at the club. Pogba had it all to prove in those first few years, and it showed. Whilst his performances for United range from lacklustre to brilliant, he often plays like he has nothing to prove to anyone. I prefer the Pogba who is desperate to show the world how good he is, which he's only done in small doses here.

My worry is that Mourinho isn't the man to make Pogba come around and turn him into the player who will run through a wall for him, like he did with Zlatan. I'm as far away from "Mourinho out!" as it gets, I'm very much pro-Jose, but I am concerned Mourinho might just think "You're not doing what I want. Sod you. I'll get someone else" which he has been known to do. He has history of being quite ruthless even with players he has signed, and I'd hate to see us lose Pogba again. We'd look even sillier than we did the first time.

Kind of how I feel. I have often seen him point to teammates to track players rather than himself and many goals have been highlighted where he could have done more defensively, or games where Matic is isolated. That smells of primma donna syndrome. The likes of Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard were Talisman in their sides but still but the shift in and fought for their teams which is why they have legendary status over here. The younger Pogba seemed more disciplined and sacrificed himself. I remember the semi against Real where he just sat, won headers, broke up play and played a disciplined role for the team, with no thrills. Showed maturity for his age. He now seems more like a Yaya Toure without the goals..............

 

[Raees]

Kind of how I feel. I have often seen him point to teammates to track players rather than himself and many goals have been highlighted where he could have done more defensively, or games where Matic is isolated. That smells of primma donna syndrome. The likes of Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard were Talisman in their sides but still but the shift in and fought for their teams which is why they have legendary status over here. The younger Pogba seemed more disciplined and sacrificed himself. I remember the semi against Real where he just sat, won headers, broke up play and played a disciplined role for the team, with no thrills. Showed maturity for his age. He now seems more like a Yaya Toure without the goals..............

As a manager though you should be sensitive to the growth or evolution of a players mindset (for better or worse). A young midfielder will always be willing to put the hard yards in and it is only natural that the more older the midfielder gets (and assuming by nature they are more creative) the less likelier they will be to putting in a defensive shift as they want to be the creative heartbeat of the side.. i.e. Yaya Toure would have felt vindicated by his move to City as he got to express himself to his fullest in contrast to his limited role at Barca which might have been more superior from a tactical perspective but from a personal POV he might not have enjoyed being a workhouse and a CDM.

Funnily enough once a player passes their prime, they are once again more likely to sacrifice their game and do what it takes to fit in. Its like a curve, where the ego hits its peak from 23-30. It will be very difficult during this phase to ask Pogba to be a disciplined workhorse and out of all those players you named, only Scholes had it in him to play in a two and one could argue it was only by 2006 where he could play that role at the very highest level - once his legs had gone, whereas in his younger days .. Fergie sometimes didn't trust him and preferred Butt.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I actually prefer him as a RCM. On the left he seems to cut back more often, but on the right he runs forward more naturally.

That performance for France was not much different than a usual United game, he just had more off the ball movement and WAY more time to do what he wanted, they didn't press him at all.

 

[GM K]

As a manager though you should be sensitive to the growth or evolution of a players mindset (for better or worse). A young midfielder will always be willing to put the hard yards in and it is only natural that the more older the midfielder gets (and assuming by nature they are more creative) the less likelier they will be to putting in a defensive shift as they want to be the creative heartbeat of the side.. i.e. Yaya Toure would have felt vindicated by his move to City as he got to express himself to his fullest in contrast to his limited role at Barca which might have been more superior from a tactical perspective but from a personal POV he might not have enjoyed being a workhouse and a CDM.

Funnily enough once a player passes their prime, they are once again more likely to sacrifice their game and do what it takes to fit in. Its like a curve, where the ego hits its peak from 23-30. It will be very difficult during this phase to ask Pogba to be a disciplined workhorse and out of all those players you named, only Scholes had it in him to play in a two and one could argue it was only by 2006 where he could play that role at the very highest level - once his legs had gone, whereas in his younger days .. Fergie sometimes didn't trust him and preferred Butt.

Lampard and Gerrard played different roles in the midfield throughout their careers without complaining.

Look, I get the tactical arguments to this but sentiments aside (I am a BIG fan of Paul Pogba), Pogba really needs to step up. I cannot remember complaints of poor tactics being the reason for players like Xavi, Iniesta, Lampard, Gerrard, Pirlo etc having poor forms. If they ever had dips in form, they had dips in form, period. I can't remember people saying it was because they were being played on the right or left side of the midfield / in a midfield two or a midfield three. The best midfielders in the world are tactically flexible despite clearly having their preferred roles. I get the fact that Pogba prefers playing on the left of a 4-3-3 but surely, not being played there in certain games, cannot be enough excuse for his poor or bang average performances.

I love the kid and I think he can be the best midfielder in the world but like some French greats have said recently, he needs to focus more on his football and improve from a tactical perspective.

 

[MadDogg]

wow another immmobile player in midfield and the most antifootball one too, sorry there is nothing to discuss, not sure when it worked or when lingad in midfield didnt work but those were some different games and fellaini in any lineup is just mid table ambitions, we've seen that so many times. he has a good game here and there scores a header form the far post and puts in a shift but we get overrun in midfield and rely on hoofing the ball forward, fecking Sam Allardyce football. This is Manchester United, I don't really know if people still remember some football 2-3 years and more back before SAF finished, that was totally something else, he would have never played fellaini over Lingard even in midfield.

Fellaini hould be back up at best, hope he's sold personally, because he always seems like an option to every manager he serrved under in United and he should be nowehre near the first team and even from the bench we could influence the game differently and better at times then just hoofing it. Sorry I don't agree at all

I agree that Fellaini 'should' only be back-up. Going forward I definitely don't want him to be a regular starter (although unlike you I want him to stay as an option off the bench).

However for the rest of this season we need to find the right balance, and as much as many don't like it, Fellaini has been our third best midfielder this season. It's a somewhat sad indication on our other midfielders, but it's the truth. Don't let his bad match against Sevilla make you forget that he was doing quite well before his injury. I don't want to see him in a two man midfield like we did against Sevilla, but next to Matic and Pogba he probably brings a better balance than our other options. He can do a good shift in the midfield, while also making quite an impact at both ends of the field. Who knows, maybe if Pogba can come back from the international break and be over his bad patch it might start working with Lingard, but so far it hasn't.

 

[Stacks]

As a manager though you should be sensitive to the growth or evolution of a players mindset (for better or worse). A young midfielder will always be willing to put the hard yards in and it is only natural that the more older the midfielder gets (and assuming by nature they are more creative) the less likelier they will be to putting in a defensive shift as they want to be the creative heartbeat of the side.. i.e. Yaya Toure would have felt vindicated by his move to City as he got to express himself to his fullest in contrast to his limited role at Barca which might have been more superior from a tactical perspective but from a personal POV he might not have enjoyed being a workhouse and a CDM.

Funnily enough once a player passes their prime, they are once again more likely to sacrifice their game and do what it takes to fit in. Its like a curve, where the ego hits its peak from 23-30. It will be very difficult during this phase to ask Pogba to be a disciplined workhorse and out of all those players you named, only Scholes had it in him to play in a two and one could argue it was only by 2006 where he could play that role at the very highest level - once his legs had gone, whereas in his younger days .. Fergie sometimes didn't trust him and preferred Butt.

I hear what you are saying there but it depends on the player and his character also. Its not about playing in a 2, its about putting in effort for the team rather than prancing through games. Play with some energy and passion, is all I expect, even if things aren't working for you. If not then you must hit some insane numbers in terms of goal output, otherwise your just a player caught in between. Iniesta, Xavi and all Peps midfielders put in a big shift as well as creative output because that is the requirement at the top level today.

 

[dirkey]

Damn comparing Pogba to Memphis? Pogba agenda has gone into overdrive.

He bullied the arsenal defence and got an assist when we most needed it, effectively killing the game off for us.

Again, done when we were under great pressure - conditions under which @edgar allan stipulated Pogba couldn't do anything.

Critical reading comprehension is a rare thing on this forum, it seems.

Your comment was that he bossed it. He did something nice under pressure. He didn't boss it. Bossing a game in midfield is spectacularly different to doing something nice when under pressure.

Oh the irony of the comment about reading comprehension when you seem to think I'm comparing Pogba to Memphis when I quite clearly state that my comparison is about them doing nice things at times, not about them as players.

 

[Cassidy]

Your comment was that he bossed it. He did something nice under pressure. He didn't boss it. Bossing a game in midfield is spectacularly different to doing something nice when under pressure.

Oh the irony of the comment about reading comprehension when you seem to think I'm comparing Pogba to Memphis when I quite clearly state that my comparison is about them doing nice things at times, not about them as players.

I think he was superb in that game tbh

 

[dirkey]

I think he was superb in that game tbh

Did you? Interesting. I thought he was fine. Had some great moments, but definitely wasn't superb in my opinion. I thought we'd a few players who were better than him. In fairness to him though, his moments were key to us winning the game, so I'm not complaining!

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

He hasn't been fit recently. There's no way he's this bad.

Seems he's been carrying a knock and United has been disrupted by Sanchez and injuries. Perfect storm for bad form.

Pogba needs to buckle down and play better down the stretch.

 

[United_We_Stand]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/this-isnt-game-living-manchester-12275448

 

[Jeppers7]

I think he was superb in that game tbh

He was as good as he was allowed to be. Any united fan expecting Pogba to dominate a game against one of our rivals away from home will be sorely disappointed. It's never going to happen when the managers tactics and philosophy rely on us not having the ball for most of the game. He was devastating on the counter. He isn't controlling the game. The manager doesn't want that.

 

[Full bodied red]

There's no way he's this bad.

Ooohh...I don't know about that - he's certainly no better and no worse than the majority of his matches at Juventus.

The difference was that at Juventus he wasn't expected to be any better than he actually was, whereas on here too many have had their expectations and hopes raised by the size of the transfer fee and the hype that he generates himself on Social Media....

 

[clarkydaz]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/this-isnt-game-living-manchester-12275448

was not expecting that at all. How refreshing

 

[George Owen]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/this-isnt-game-living-manchester-12275448

The same applies to Jlingz.

 

[Cassidy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/this-isnt-game-living-manchester-12275448

This is silly, social media isn't his job it also represents his life (out side of football), laughing and joking is allowed outside of your working hours!

TBH I am really getting annoyed with the way things are going in football. Players have lives, its not like he is at night clubs, getting drunk, smoking, or stealing taxis.

Most of the time he is with his family, having fun, looking after his mum, and enjoying life with his teammates and brothers.

Lets criticise him for his performances on the pitch and also if he isn't putting in the effort in training or is not keeping fit. I notice during the summer when he was putting in the training which was on instagram also no one had anything to say

EDIT: Also it just goes to show, we complain about there not being characters anymore in football, but as soon as someone shows some individualism, we complain.

 

[Laurentiu amt]

He plays well in the France team because they have attackers that make a lot of runs. We don't.
It's that simple imo.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

He plays well in the France team because they have attackers that make a lot of runs. We don't.
It's that simple imo.

Why was he excellent at the start of the season then?

 

[Laurentiu amt]

Why was he excellent at the start of the season then?

For the exact same reason. In the first few games it seems the attacking players had more freedom and were more proactive imo.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

For the exact same reason. In the first few games it seems the attacking players had more freedom and were more proactive imo.

So our attackers are capable of making those runs then?

 

[breakout67]

Pogba doesn't really play 'well' for France. He has good and bad periods, basically the same as for his club. On his day unplayable, but sometimes turns into an average player for 90 minutes.

 

[Laurentiu amt]

So our attackers are capable of making those runs then?

Them being capable or not is not the point of the discussion. Them doing the runs, is. It doesn't really help that you have players that can make runs if they're not making them or if they're limited by the manager's attacking view. That's my point.

 

[Litch]

This is silly, social media isn't his job it also represents his life (out side of football), laughing and joking is allowed outside of your working hours!

TBH I am really getting annoyed with the way things are going in football. Players have lives, its not like he is at night clubs, getting drunk, smoking, or stealing taxis.

Most of the time he is with his family, having fun, looking after his mum, and enjoying life with his teammates and brothers.

Lets criticise him for his performances on the pitch and also if he isn't putting in the effort in training or is not keeping fit. I notice during the summer when he was putting in the training which was on instagram also no one had anything to say

EDIT: Also it just goes to show, we complain about there not being characters anymore in football, but as soon as someone shows some individualism, we complain.

10000% right. For some reason if he isn't playing well people expect him to shave his head, eat prison food, live in a dark room giving himself 50 lashes. There's an undertone to some of these comments and I question why it's certain players more than others. Like you said what he presents is the polar opposite to how he lives his life. He's a clean, family and religious guy and not falling out the clubs in the early hours. Some stereotypes come into play and it's not the first time.....

I love Robbo but what was he doing when he wasn't doing his Job. Getting drunk allegedly with Norman and Paul Mc?

The vultures are always circling over some players more than others, just waiting for something to go wrong. Rom not doing bad but they are never far away from him either.

I think some forget football is a team sport, and your performances are equally about what others are doing around you. I'm sorry but I think there is probably only a couple of players that aren't equally to the same criticism including the manager. Ironically, the same could be said about France given the amount of talent they have.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Them being capable or not is not the point of the discussion. Them doing the runs, is. It doesn't really help that you have players that can make runs if they're not making them or if they're limited by the manager's attacking view. That's my point.

No, your point was that Pogba isn't playing great because we don't have the attackers who make lots of runs. However, he played well at the start of the season, so I personally feel your point is invalid.

Granted it may not be as better as France, we have players who make runs, who Pogba was picking out at the start of the season. Him not doing it now is down to bad form more than anything.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Pogba doesn't really play 'well' for France. He has good and bad periods, basically the same as for his club. On his day unplayable, but sometimes turns into an average player for 90 minutes.

I didn't watch the game. However, despite the goal and assist, apparently he wasn't anything special.

 

[Harry190]

The whole social media thing is blowing up on him now. It's not just posters on here such as myself who questioned his commitment for the game of football early on pontificating about it, it's former players now, great players, who have won things in the past. Not even talking about former United players, French players as well. And journalists. The sentiment in France is slowly catching up to the fact that his exuberance off the pitch far exceeds his performances on it.

Arsenal player in the making.

http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/football/...d-en-faire-un-duel-avec-mourinho-1395780.html

 

[el3mel]

The whole social media thing is blowing up on him now. It's not just posters on here such as myself who questioned his commitment for the game of football early on pontificating about it, it's former players now, great players, who have won things in the past. Not even talking about former United players, French players as well. And journalists. The sentiment in France is slowly catching up to the fact that his exuberance off the pitch far exceeds his performances on it.

Arsenal player in the making.

http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/football/...d-en-faire-un-duel-avec-mourinho-1395780.html

I don't think his mentality is a problem. He has shown big ambition to become one of the midfielders out there, and haircuts and giving importance to how he looks didn't affect Beckham, no? His problem is lack of discipline in CM role, something that he'll need to improve tactically.

 

[Cassidy]

The whole social media thing is blowing up on him now. It's not just posters on here such as myself who questioned his commitment for the game of football early on pontificating about it, it's former players now, great players, who have won things in the past. Not even talking about former United players, French players as well. And journalists. The sentiment in France is slowly catching up to the fact that his exuberance off the pitch far exceeds his performances on it.

Arsenal player in the making.

http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/football/...d-en-faire-un-duel-avec-mourinho-1395780.html

Just another player of colour whos lifestyle is critised for no reason.

 

[sunama]

The whole social media thing is blowing up on him now. It's not just posters on here such as myself who questioned his commitment for the game of football early on pontificating about it, it's former players now, great players, who have won things in the past. Not even talking about former United players, French players as well. And journalists. The sentiment in France is slowly catching up to the fact that his exuberance off the pitch far exceeds his performances on it.

When you focus on becoming a hair style and fashion icon, you need to be able to back it up on the pitch, to keep the critics quiet.
Unfortunately for him, McT has been outperforming him and as a result, his off-the-pitch antics don't seem to carry any weight, in a positive way.

For those saying that Pogba played well for his country: the team he played against were useless. They refused to press or tackle and would've got spanked by a League 2 side, from England.
For these reasons, I don't hold much importance to the International match.

If he plays on Saturday, he will be up against real footballers who are actually trying to win the match and we shall get to see just how well Pogba is playing. TBH, I'm not holding my breath for anything special for him.

The other thing which I find remarkable with Pogba is he has a knack of not playing against top sides.
Against Spurs, he got subbed off, for being bad at his job.
Against AFC, he got red carded.
And I actually can't remember him playing against any other top 6 side.

 

[PepsiCola]

Just another player of colour whos lifestyle is critised for no reason.

I have absolutely no doubt this plays a large part in it all.

 

[P-Nut]

I have absolutely no doubt this plays a large part in it all.

Definitely, it's the different interests. If he was writing letters about knitting constantly there would be zero problems. Because he is interested in mainstream things that gain followers it is seen as chasing them.

 

[breakout67]

Just another player of colour whos lifestyle is critised for no reason.

Most of the Arsenal squad get slated for their social media antics by their own fans. They hate that they are all so big on social media while not performing on the pitch.

Ramsey, Bellerin, Ozil, Mustafi etc.

Nothing to do with colour, and more to do with old fashioned people not liking social media.

 

[Kag]

Most of the Arsenal squad get slated for their social media antics by their own fans. They hate that they are all so big on social media while not performing on the pitch.

Ramsey, Bellerin, Ozil, Mustafi etc.

Nothing to do with colour, and more to do with old fashioned people not liking social media.

Black players are regularly subject to accusations of 'attitude' which absolutely has something to do with their colour.

Some of the Memphis Depay comments were disgraceful when he was here. His "gangster" image being a definite example of this sort of thing.

 

[Stacks]

Just another player of colour whos lifestyle is critised for no reason.

I don't know if its that deep though. Its like the guy acts as though he is Lebron (prima donna super star stud) without the ability or performances to match. if you create a brand and constantly hype it on social media, you are gonna get called out when what you deliver doesn't match the star on your tree. When Cleverley made TC23, he got rinsed, rightly so. its not that you shouldn't promote yourself, but that promotion is like a sell and you must deliver the package you sell or you look fraudulent. Its like movie star hype when you are just doing theatre at the minute (theatre is still good). The risk of self promotion, or selling yourself, is that you risk looking stupid. Conor Mcgregor did it in UFC, hyped himself no end, but backed it up. If he was getting smacked around and not looking the best, he too would get called out.

 

[edcunited1878]

How can his engagement on social media be a negative on him? It's part of who he is as a person and as a brand. United and adidas tapped into his personality, brand and social media engagement when he re-signed for United a couple years ago. The club and Jose knew what they were getting. Yes, his form has been very off the past few weeks but these are poor attempts at disrupting the player and generating click-bait headlines.

 

[Cassidy]

I don't know if its that deep though. Its like the guy acts as though he is Lebron (prima donna super star stud) without the ability or performances to match. if you create a brand and constantly hype it on social media, you are gonna get called out when what you deliver doesn't match the star on your tree. When Cleverley made TC23, he got rinsed, rightly so. its not that you shouldn't promote yourself, but that promotion is like a sell and you must deliver the package you sell or you look fraudulent. Its like movie star hype when you are just doing theatre at the minute (theatre is still good). The risk of self promotion, or selling yourself, is that you risk looking stupid. Conor Mcgregor did it in UFC, hyped himself no end, but backed it up. If he was getting smacked around and not looking the best, he too would get called out.

People complain that he is dancing with his brother on instagram.