I don't like that in any player, no matter how good he is and with him who is not playing that well, it's even more grating.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
I for one think that he needs to get his head out of his arse.. If you are asked to defend you defend..
Buying another player to get Pogba going is just crazy.. He needs to grow up.
Buying another player to get Pogba going is just crazy.. He needs to grow up.
This is a public forum, and if you consider my comment immature, then that's up to you.
A few things in response though: I have not for a moment suggested that he hasn't played well for us... in actual fact I have stated that he is by far our most influential player. I actually think this 'he has been poor for two games' thing is more about Mourinho than Pogba. He is the same player, frustrated in playing in a style that does not suit him. He is not alone in seemingly being in such a position. Name a great united player that played his best games, playing out of position? Do we wish to get the best out of Pogba? If so, then we need to look at where he plays, and what his role is. That isn't lacking maturity, it's a simple, and rather clear observation. Mourinho has now said that he is box-to-box.. well, is he? Is that the best of Pogba? I don't think so.
There are other players, better suited to playing the role that Mourinho wants Pogba to play in. So why not play them there? It's a classic case of 'square pegs and round holes...' To get the best out of Pogba, another attacking player has to go. If he plays off the left (as at Everton for a period..) and Juve, then we need to get shot of Martial or Sanchez from there, which then raises other issues. Sorry, that isn't bullshit, that's considering the most effective make up and use of the players available. Who would suggest Mourinho has achieved that?
The game against Tottenham was awful, the whole team were outplayed, not just Pogba. That was a huge Mourinho f*** up. And as usual, let us ignore the complete ineffectiveness of our alleged front three, or four or whatever you wish to call them in some games. But we now look at Paul Pogba... the guy isn't the p***ing messiah, he is part of a team. Let's get the best out of him. I have no issue with a player playing poorly, that's part of footie.... but some suggestions stating Pogba doesn't have the mentality to play at United etc, are just daft.
Wow seems like some posters have been waiting a long time to rip into Pogba.
He's had a bad few games. Seems at odds with the manager which is a real worry. I like the manager and I like the player. But the player isn't a deep lying cm in a two. However Jose wants to dress it up, everyone else knows it. The manager also needs to get the best out of, what is now, a very talented group of players. Well he certainly isn't doing that. He needs to stop throwing players under the bus and start doing some work on our own style of play, because we don't have one.
He's had a bad few games. Seems at odds with the manager which is a real worry. I like the manager and I like the player. But the player isn't a deep lying cm in a two. However Jose wants to dress it up, everyone else knows it. The manager also needs to get the best out of, what is now, a very talented group of players. Well he certainly isn't doing that. He needs to stop throwing players under the bus and start doing some work on our own style of play, because we don't have one.
We just need to play him in the right system. Pogba has all the talent and ability to be world class for us but we're simply not going to see the best from him in a two man midfield. I really want to see us play a three man midfield going forward. Get another central midfielder in the summer somebody like Vidal and I'm sure we'll see the best from him.
Yes putting pogba slightly to the left is going to change him from crap to great. Simply he has not proven himself good enough to build the team around him.
The lack of goals is pretty striking I think. People will point out the assists but really when we got Pogba, you were expecting a player that would score at least 10 goals from midfield in the league every season and more importantly, to be a big danger when we went up against City, Arsenal, Liverpool etc.
He's not that player so far. It's really disappointing.
He's not that player so far. It's really disappointing.
Yeah, the idea that Pogba needs a third mid to help him perform against the likes of Newcastle is silly. I mean, its' Newcastle, not Real, Bayern or Barca.
A good midfielder should adapt to any system, not just a 4-3-3 or whatever. The fault lies with Pogba more.
Still, he's been pretty good for us, criticism aside. Just not great.
Obviously it has become a tussle between Jose and him. So far I blame them both 50 and 50 for how it's going.
Jose for trying to get him to play in a centre 2. What I don't understand here is he played him in a middle 3 against Everton. Why did he do it then and stop now? And he always played Lampard in a middle 3, so why is he trying to do this to Pogba? I don't understand it.
Coming to Pogba, his effort has been abysmal. He didn't even jump for that ball from the free kick. And just because you are in a middle two, doesn't mean you stop tracking players. Also there is more to creativity than just expansive passes. Where is the simple pass and move, run the game kind of play?
Jose for trying to get him to play in a centre 2. What I don't understand here is he played him in a middle 3 against Everton. Why did he do it then and stop now? And he always played Lampard in a middle 3, so why is he trying to do this to Pogba? I don't understand it.
Coming to Pogba, his effort has been abysmal. He didn't even jump for that ball from the free kick. And just because you are in a middle two, doesn't mean you stop tracking players. Also there is more to creativity than just expansive passes. Where is the simple pass and move, run the game kind of play?
How on earth can you build the team around a player when he is off-centre, far up the pitch meaning his influence on the game is limited to moments rather than the whole game.
You have to choose between the two:
- Play Pogba as a deeper midfielder; who controls the tempo of the game.
- Play Pogba as an auxillary midfielder; who links with attackers and relies on deeper midfielders to bring him into the game
Pogba was never the main man at Juventus; Vidal, Marchisio and Pirlo were the ones that would control the game. Pogba provided a creative spark and an extra physical aspect to the team, that Juve team were still very good without him, but obviously he made them have an X-factor.
You have to choose between the two:
- Play Pogba as a deeper midfielder; who controls the tempo of the game.
- Play Pogba as an auxillary midfielder; who links with attackers and relies on deeper midfielders to bring him into the game
Pogba was never the main man at Juventus; Vidal, Marchisio and Pirlo were the ones that would control the game. Pogba provided a creative spark and an extra physical aspect to the team, that Juve team were still very good without him, but obviously he made them have an X-factor.
If the rumors are true,No player is bigger than the club,if he doesnt like his role in the team he can lump it.
Shouldn't a world class midfielder be able to be pretty good in a 4231 as well, even if that isn't his best position?
Not that I'm defending the use of this formation...
Not that I'm defending the use of this formation...
What rumors?
Despite being dead against the transfer at the time, I’ve grown to really like Pogba. But that said, he’s nearly at the two year point in his return to the club and overall his performances have been disappointing IMO.
Consistency is his problem. Between last season and this one, there was some games where he showed his full potential but he was average in just as many. IMO Pogba should be a winger, not a midfielder. He has the pace,dribbling and physicality to beat his marker and put in crosses.
No suggestion of an improvement on the players part? This is the crux of the issue right here.
I know Pogba can play more than one role in our team, especially one that is set up to allow him to produce something now and then. The guy needs to learn the game. Nobody has taught him, probably because he's so goddamn talented and is only just entering his more senior years. Previously he has been treated like a talented but immature CM.
He looked like he felt sorry for himself. It really is time for Pogba to grow up now and show some fecking fight. No player has every become a top player without determination and heart, especially when the going gets tough. I feel like Pogba has come this far on talent alone. He got a move to Juve based on his youth team performances here and was then watched over by top class midfielders whilst he tried things and learnt the game.
He can do it, 100%. It's just that he needs to start now. The team needs him.
I don't think he is lazy. It looked to me like he's picked up an injury. He pulled up before the game and also went down the tunnel earlier than normal.
I'd say he's had some great performances this season. Normally not playing in a DM role. He's got the second most amount of assists in the premiership (after KDB) and bearing in mind he has missed 10 of those games through injury, it's a great return.
Yesterday wasn't the first game though so it has nothing to do with injury. Its been a good month now where he has started to pick and choose when he wants to put in track runners and put in any effort defending.
Against Tottenham I think it was, Alexis was on a break down the left and ended up losing the ball because Pogba didn't bother to sprint to keep up with him. Immediately on the turnover Tottenham break and Sanchez busts his gut to get back to the edge of our box while Pogba has continued to lazily jog back and stand and watch 15 yards up the field. The stark contrast in effort was frankly embarrassing from Pogba.
All this talk of formations and systems where Pogba will play best, although have some merit, ignore a vital fact. Many of Pogba's best games for United, many of those this season itself, have come while he played in a midfield 2 alongside Matic. Its not that Pogba is not capable of playing in a midfield 2, its just that he is out of form and confidence right now.
Do I think he plays better when freed of defensive duty? Yes. Do I think he will play better with a double pivot behind him? Yes. He is more of a Iniesta or a Zidane rather than a Viera.
Do I think he plays better when freed of defensive duty? Yes. Do I think he will play better with a double pivot behind him? Yes. He is more of a Iniesta or a Zidane rather than a Viera.
Ive thought for some time now that he is a great player for youtube compilations but overall he lacks a good understanding and awareness a midfielder needs to have and also lacks the mentality (unless yesterday he was in fact injured, but doesnt look like something of one day only)
Hard to think he will be all that we thought he would
Hard to think he will be all that we thought he would
He had probably his worst game for us yesterday, he really shouldn't have started and I blame Joses 'play through the pain barrier' for that one.
We turned up against Newcastle and basically played with one central midfielder for most of the game, there was no discipline in his game, he just strolled around the pitch. If that was tactical then the loss is firmly on Jose for under rating Newcastle and thinking we could win with 1 CM covering our defense. If however it was Pogba doing his own thing then it's even more damning.
I also don't understand if you've got a player struggling with injury why you'd give him defensive duties on a set piece. That was absurd.
It's worrying though, Pogba should be our top quality CM pushing the team forward like he did at the start of the season. But his form has taken a huge dive lately and we have no depth to bring players on to fill in. Meanwhile Matic is having to play every game and his own form is starting to suffer.
We turned up against Newcastle and basically played with one central midfielder for most of the game, there was no discipline in his game, he just strolled around the pitch. If that was tactical then the loss is firmly on Jose for under rating Newcastle and thinking we could win with 1 CM covering our defense. If however it was Pogba doing his own thing then it's even more damning.
I also don't understand if you've got a player struggling with injury why you'd give him defensive duties on a set piece. That was absurd.
It's worrying though, Pogba should be our top quality CM pushing the team forward like he did at the start of the season. But his form has taken a huge dive lately and we have no depth to bring players on to fill in. Meanwhile Matic is having to play every game and his own form is starting to suffer.
It was reported that jose checked on him during the game amd Pogba waved Thumbs up to suggest he can continue. Not sure why we keep blaming jose.
I'd blame Jose because he's been responsible for telling players to man up and play through injuries. That's fair enough but it can backfire like yesterday when its clear Pogba should have been subbed off after 30mins.
Is it just me or is anyone else noticing a drop in performance since Alexis got those bumper wages. Sulking for a better contract.
Last edited by a moderator:
I've always been a huge Modric fan so maybe I'm biased, but Modric was very harshly treated at Madrid and I thought his first season was okay. For Spurs he was top class and played in a midfield 2 with either Parker, Sandro or Huddlestone yet managed to dominate opposition and we became a team that had a lot of possession, mostly thanks to him. He works hard, always did, and he is a good defensive player by covering spaces. And his last two seasons at Tottenham he was consistently amazing. And although he could play on the left or as a 10 he was always mainly a central midfielder who operated in a 2.
No need to try and drag Modric into this who in my opinion has been the best CM in the PL two seasons running before his move, and after that he established himself as the best CM in LaLiga as well.
He doesn't have anything resembling the close control and dribbling skills of the former two.
When did I say he has? In fact I never said anything regarding their quality or skills. When I said he is more of a Iniesta/Zidane, I meant that he performs best when he plays free of defensive shackles, linking the midfield and attack.
Pogba at his best has great ball control, ability to dribble at tight spaces, ability to run directly with the ball, and passing abilty. He just needs to get more consistent.
He has.
Problem with Pogba isn't his quality. It's his mentality and consistency, both are very poor at the moment.
The statement is still true, he is closer to them than he is to Veira
He seems disillusioned, probably with his role and the way we play because he's not putting in maximum effort at all.
That he's not happy where he is being played and his defensive responsibilities.
Fair enough,didn't know.
Which is unprofessional and unacceptable. I don't know what it is with Pogba where some want him to be kept in a box, the incredible specifics of what it takes for him to perform. Players develop, Scholes at 21 was a forward, at 25 was an attacking midfielder, and at 30 was a deep lying playmaker. There are innumerable examples of this progression in a players career, versatility/adaptability allows a player to grow.
Time for him to grow up, even if you are not in an ideal position you put in a shift and don't let down your team.
We're talking about some of the best players the game's seen when it comes to close control and ability on the ball. Pogba's very good with it - although also inconsistent - but he's not a shade on either Zidane or Iniesta with a ball at his feet.
I'd say he's somewhere in the middle. He's nowhere near as strong as Vieira was defensively but he's got a lot of physical/box-to-box type qualities as well.
I don't disagree. We're using him in probably the worst way possible but a lack of effort isn't acceptable unless you have considerable personal problems.
I don't think Pogba has box-to-box qualities tbh, even though Mou does. The only thing that is comparable to Viera is his physicality
Not saying he's on Zidane or Iniesta level of course but he sure has very good close control and dribbling style. Saying he has nothing resembling them is odd imo. Saying he's not on a similar level to them is the right thing.
I don't see big problems in his qualities. When he's on his game he's a joy to watch. Problem is his mentality and consistency. He's too inconsistent and seems to disappear when it's not his day and sulking on the pitch is unacceptable for any top class players.
Perhaps. But his box-to-box qualities come more from the fact that he has a tendency to drift around the pitch and play wherever he wants to sometimes...although that's not exactly a good thing when a team requires tactical discipline.
The Zidane/Iniesta comparisons feel very tenuous to me though. His ball control, passing and general creativity isn't a patch on them - I'm fine with shifting him further forward and abandoning our current approach but a lot of the same problems with him will remain.
- Status