Forget the data and just use your eyes then. Pogba has a great first touch and if you wanna use data, use it in the right context. Does Pogba receive the ball in the same context as all the other players you mentioned.
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Pogba attempts to bring the ball forward higher up the pitch far more than both Kroos and Modric. Pogba attempts 2.4 dribbles per game compared to Modric's 1.7 dribbles per game and Kroos' 1 dribble per game. Any player attempting more dribbles will be dispossessed or lose the ball more. This is why Lingard's bad control per game is less than both Messi and Neymar. Neymar loses the ball 2.6 times per game compared with Lingard's 1.1 per game because he attempts an absolutely insane 5.6 dribbles per game compared to Lingard's 0.8. You can claim strikers are different all you like but they're different because they're attempting riskier things. The reason Pogba loses the ball more than Kroos and Modric is also because he's attempting riskier things while also attempting to create more than either Kroos or Modric. They're very different midfielders. Pogba's style is much more similar to Moussa Dembele's though he is at a far higher level than Dembele, and capable of passes Dembele couldn't dream of. Pogba's 1st touch is obviously excellent. It's foolish to argue otherwise.
Pogba is the best CM in the league and next season he'll prove he's top 5 in the world. CM's in England don't even come close.
But what about Jordan Henderson?
funny enough, there are 2 separate stats for dispossession and miss control of the ball.
Pogba has a great first touch, just shows how stats can be used to fit any argument.
Pogba goes for more headers which alters the first touch stats.
He plays in Joses direct style so he finds himself isolated more times than Modric would. Im sure his stats were Godlike during the Euros when he played as DM while under a lot less pressure.
He also has to control Fellainis wayward passes which is proven to be next to impossible
He plays in Joses direct style so he finds himself isolated more times than Modric would. Im sure his stats were Godlike during the Euros when he played as DM while under a lot less pressure.
He also has to control Fellainis wayward passes which is proven to be next to impossible
miss controlled the ball 1.7 times per match in the Euros. Everyone accepts Rooney doesn't have perfect control of the ball yet he has miss controlled the ball, less than Paul per game in both Euros and the EPL. weird
While I'm a fan of stats in general this is a great example of how fallible they can be in certain circumstances. In this instance, I assume it's mainly down to inconsistent definitions of "miscontrol" where an attempted first time lay-off, or flick towards a team-mate gets racked up as the ball being miscontrolled. Anyone with eyes and a brain can see that Pogba has an excellent first touch.
Maybe because fans have watched both players in the same side?
Think how many times Wayne must have miscontroled the ball in his fleeting cameos to match Pogba who played 90 mins every week!
Think how many times Wayne must have miscontroled the ball in his fleeting cameos to match Pogba who played 90 mins every week!
Feck me that touch was beautiful
Pogba really is different class. I'm really excited to see him this season as he's managed to have a proper rest then a proper pre season with us too, think he's gonna show everyone just how good he really is. The purchase of Matić will help really unshackle him and allow him to express himself fully in the attacking areas without worrying too much about having to retreat all the time. Personally can't wait to see him perform this season
Great touch but what is it with this guy and the woodwork? If anyone would benefit from the goals being a couple of inches wider....
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'tis a delightful touch indeed!Feck me that touch was beautiful
Pogba really is different class. I'm really excited to see him this season as he's managed to have a proper rest then a proper pre season with us too, think he's gonna show everyone just how good he really is. The purchase of Matić will help really unshackle him and allow him to express himself fully in the attacking areas without worrying too much about having to retreat all the time. Personally can't wait to see him perform this season
He's a worldie!
Simples
Simples
I don't think he's been any good this half. Still showed a few glimpses here and there.
I agree
I agree that Pogba has a beautiful touch....and that he's a joy to watch sometimes....but I don't think he's effective enough to justify the hype.
I can't help but see Veron when I watch him.
It could be argued that Veron was the most 'talented' in the midfield of 2001-2003, despite it including Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Beckham. He could do things with the ball that they couldn't, but ultimately they each contributed more relevant, decisive things in assistance to the team, and that's how I see Pogba now; a misfit.
A midfield base of an energetic ball winner and Matic offer the perfect platform for 3 attaching midfielders behind Lukaku to be destructive. Accommodating Pogba either sabotages those foundations, or sacrifices one of the creative players ahead of them; he's neither consistent enough in his passing or defensive work to justify playing deep, or productive enough to play in the final third.
I can't help but see Veron when I watch him.
It could be argued that Veron was the most 'talented' in the midfield of 2001-2003, despite it including Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Beckham. He could do things with the ball that they couldn't, but ultimately they each contributed more relevant, decisive things in assistance to the team, and that's how I see Pogba now; a misfit.
A midfield base of an energetic ball winner and Matic offer the perfect platform for 3 attaching midfielders behind Lukaku to be destructive. Accommodating Pogba either sabotages those foundations, or sacrifices one of the creative players ahead of them; he's neither consistent enough in his passing or defensive work to justify playing deep, or productive enough to play in the final third.
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How nice of you not to see color.
Bet a lad at work that he'd get 25 goals / assists in the league this season. Think I overcooked it - hadn't realised he only got about 10 combined last year!
A very ordinary 45 mins. No real sign of his immense talent.
18. 11/7.
He's one of many players in world football who is going to be judged after every single game due to his price tag. Hopefully as united supporters we can judge him over a longer course instead of game for game.
I think the price tag won't taken too much into consideration now that Neymar is about to become the most expensive ever. This could help Pogba.
Nah he said in the league, 5 goals 4 assists in PL last season.
That's my prediction, not last campaign's return.
His obvious talent has still not translated to productivity. Until this happens, in my eyes he remains underwhelming.
I'm still waiting for the real Pogba to turn up, and when that happens, it's going to be incredible, having a solid DM will definitely help.
What's the real Pogba? The one who played for a Juve team that has monopolised Serie A this decade, with Pirlo and Vidal doing the productive stuff, and scoring the occasional worldie against mid-table mediocrity?
He's not playing against Chievo or Pescara anymore.
Are you on a mission to shit on Pogba all season long? Because we haven't played a competitive game yet and the shtick is already wearing thin.
Re Chievo and Pescara, let's just hope he copes with the enormous step up required to play footballing behemoths like Brighton and Bournemouth.
It's not the price, it's the hype. Adidas, Raiola and United tell us he's a great player, yet there's been little evidence of this.
It might take another season or two of underwhelming performances for everyone else to realise, but I'll live and die by my opinion of him now.
Matic is the key this season, potentially a title-winning catalyst for the stability and balance he provides.
Great ability but some times I fear he is a bit too laid back or lacks the drive needed to bring out his best talents, he's too nice.
Even Zidane who was obviously an unbelievable talent(not comparing Pogba to him) had a dark side.
Even Zidane who was obviously an unbelievable talent(not comparing Pogba to him) had a dark side.
Or maybe, just maybe, you should be open to the possibility that a young footballer might continue to develop and improve over the course of those two seasons?
The best season of Pogba was 2015-2016 ( 10 goals, 15 assists ) with Sturaro, Lemina, Hernanes, Khedira and Marchisio ( missed half the season ) not Pirlo or Vidal who was shite after 2013 because of his knee injuries ( that's why Juventus sold him for 30-40 millions ). He reborns with Bayern but he isn't anymore the monster that he was between 2011 and 2013.
And Pogba liked to score against Naples, the second best team in Italy
Stop your agenda please...
He has improved our team no doubt in the way that he keeps possession, makes line breaking runs from midfield and switches play with his 50 yarders. However I think it is a fair assessment that in terms of making and scoring goals he has been underwhelming in the context of his obvious footballing ability.
Goals win matches and ultimately the big trophies. He may score the odd screamer or too but I want his contributions to be regular. It is in those terms that I continue to disagree that he is among the true elite in the game just yet. This may all very well change this season of course and I really hope I'm proven wrong but from pre-season I am still to see convincing evidence that this will happen.
None of the above tell me how good he is.
I wasn't even aware of Raiola when Pogba was shining in serie a. I don't care what company sponsors him.
My view on him being a great young footballer with the potential to become the best in his position is down to what I have seen with my own eyes. The way he plays is very impressive imo from his long range passing, control, shooting and mentality. He is a 24 yo who plays for his national team and United. If you don't rate him then I guess all I can say is fair enough, I don't want to change your view.
I'm open to it, of course, but I just don't see it happening. He will improve, but not to an elite level IMO.
People said the same things about Seba Veron after his first year, who was a very similar player stylistically, and couldn't adjust to the intensity of the Premier League midfield, neither at United or Chelsea.
He's a floater.
Are you a United fan?
Would you swap him for De Bruyne or Eriksen?
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