6
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No. He meant that Lampard's not the type of midfielder ala Xavi to dominate a midfield for 90 minutes. He contributed in moments with goals.
He should be the furthest forward in a 3 man midfield.
Ideally we buy a aggressive box-to-box to partner him in front of a deep lying playmaker.
Herrera could do that job for now though.
Something like this:
Ideally we buy a aggressive box-to-box to partner him in front of a deep lying playmaker.
Herrera could do that job for now though.
Something like this:
Lampard didn't excel in big games because he played in moments. He's not like Xavi, Keane etc. that fundamentally shape how the game plays out.
You tell me.
Why would you want a player that scored over 300 goals along with 150 assists to play like Xavi though? The latter's a B2B midfielder while Xavi's a controller. Two different styles of play but equally as effective.
Lampard was a far more dominant midfielder than current Pogba. He's gone toe to toe with Xavi and came out on top multiple times, Pogba has a lot to do to reach that level.
I didn't say he should play like Xavi. Just that he's not that type of midfielder to dominate a midfield through his possessive play similar to Pogba. Which is what @Brwned was saying.
My big issue with this though, is that surely any CM worth their salt can play in a 2 man midfield. Even David Silva managed it today!
Perhaps he's not the type of player for a 2-Man midfield but his off the ball work just seemed so lazy, not the performance or fight of someone that would give his all for the derby.
However, he had a few moments of class. Hoping for better overall.
However, he had a few moments of class. Hoping for better overall.
I know the great undroppable is that position, but is there no chance he could be played as the number 10 with Schneiderlin and Herrera in behind? Stick Martial and Rashford on the wings, with Zlatan up top, and we might be on to something imo.
It's not going to happen because it means Rooney would need to be dropped.
*sigh*, sad but true, I really thought we stood a chance of slaying this beast with Jose in charge.
Fellaini + Pogba against decent opposition was always an accident waiting to happen. Neither of them has any defensive awareness and their effort to get back to recover situations was non-existent.
Pogba also seemed intent on taking 12 touches whenever he got the ball and had usually lost it before he got to 8.
Pogba also seemed intent on taking 12 touches whenever he got the ball and had usually lost it before he got to 8.
City had a 3 man midfield and they flood the midfield a lot. It's not the same.
Pogba's still raw. He'll get better.
Why do people insist on using minor positional changes to deflect blame away from players after crap performances? It's massively missing the point. His level of performance today was way below what we should expect from him and that's on the player himself. He wasn't asked to play in goal ffs. The type of class you'd expect from one of the best players (arguably the best?) at a team with aspirations of winning the league should have shone through no matter how he was used in central midfield.
He's allowed an off day though. New club. New league and no pre-season. Shit happens. But ffs can we stop trying to blame other people for Pogba playing badly?
He's allowed an off day though. New club. New league and no pre-season. Shit happens. But ffs can we stop trying to blame other people for Pogba playing badly?
Most expensive player in the world, guess he deserves all the excuses on here for that alone. All I'll say is I've still yet to see him dominate midfield in a big game. Which really makes me wonder why he's the most expensive player in the world.
In this case i think it's fair to mention the position.
He played in a 3 man midfield for the last 4 years.
We all saw how he struggled for France when playing in the 2 man midfield.
If he really can't cope with that sort of tweak to his role and still be one of our best performers then we've been taken to the cleaners. Again.
FWIW i thought he was exceptional in his first game this season. Playing the exact same position. He just needs to play that well (or better) in every game now. Or at least a hell of a lot better than he did today.
If Darron Gibson and Anderson can play in 2 man midfield...so can Pogba.
The problem with today's match was that against the very best quality, we decided to weaken our team by playing players like Lingard, Rooney and Fellaini.
I wouldn't blame Pogba for today's game. I personally think he will be a good player for us but he is not a world class player.
The problem with today's match was that against the very best quality, we decided to weaken our team by playing players like Lingard, Rooney and Fellaini.
I wouldn't blame Pogba for today's game. I personally think he will be a good player for us but he is not a world class player.
I don't mind him playing that position vs mid table and relegation fodder teams.
But if you're using him in a 2 man midfield vs the best teams, then it's a risk.
That really doesn't make sense at all. I agree that he had a bad performance, but you can't expect players to just tweak their roles, that isn't how football works. Putting Iniesta (an attacking midfielder) in a 2 man midfield would probably see him be less effective too. He isn't a CDM and we should never use him like that, period. Perhaps we have been taken to the cleaners, but that isn't his fault, that is the clubs fault for spending that much without having a clear vision on how to utilise him.
The problem isn´t that he can´t play in a 2-men midfield, but that he is not a midfield playmaker. Yet next to Fellaini, he has to do this job. He is decent in this role, but thats about it. He excels as creative midfielder who creates a couple moments of magic each game, but he can´t do that when he gets pushed back. Just because he has a big frame doesn't mean that he excels on the defensive end either.
You can't compare that game to today's game. Just look at how City were set up and how they pressed. It's completely different.
Exactly. We would have got away with playing Rooney in goal the first 3 games of the season, mediocre opposition.
Yeah agree.
You might not get the absolute best of him in a midfield two but he should and is more than capable of playing there.
Invisible today. Bossed by a supposedly passed it Silva.
Iniesta would look superb anywhere in midfield because he's a brilliant player. Pogba wasn't asked to anchor the midfield anyway. That was Fellaini's job.
I thought he was alright.
Exactly this, I would just insert the word "yet" before "a world class" but your opening line is precisely what I was getting at earlier in the thread.
He's perfectly capable of playing in the role asked of him today, he just had the basics wrong today. His touch was loose many times, he was slow to get out to the ball and at other times he just held on to it for too long. What I think he needs, be it in a 1 or 2 man midfield, is a partner who can also help control games. Fellaini did well today and has done well all season, but he won't do much on the ball. Herrera made a huge difference when he came on because of his mobility and technique, and Pogba needs that type of player around him. Ideally a younger Carrick would be perfect for him, but since we don't have that, we probably have to use him in a midfield 3. Using Pogba as a box to box, in front of Herrera/Carrick, next to even another attacking mid like Mkhitaryan, could work really well I think. But no matter the system, his individual level has to be better then what it was today.
I thought he was ok. But it is really hard to judge midfielder performances in this game where we seem to try to bypass it by trying to hoof the ball.
Ander did well anchoring of course but the rest were pretty much pointless. They just had to be there in the box for the ball flying in and hoped they had some luck with it.
A few moments when we tried to play football on the ground, he did well. We should have just bought like 5 crouches or carrolls for that kind of football we tried to play.
Ander did well anchoring of course but the rest were pretty much pointless. They just had to be there in the box for the ball flying in and hoped they had some luck with it.
A few moments when we tried to play football on the ground, he did well. We should have just bought like 5 crouches or carrolls for that kind of football we tried to play.
We will see the best of him when rooney is out the team or out of the number 10 position imo.
3 man midfield with him pushed up for big games will be best for him.
Also one thing I really liked in the first half, not sure if the cameras picked it up, when Lingard went through successive feck ups, he went over to calm Lingard down and get him to focus (Lingard got booed at one point when he kinda backheeled it into a throw, lol).
3 man midfield with him pushed up for big games will be best for him.
Also one thing I really liked in the first half, not sure if the cameras picked it up, when Lingard went through successive feck ups, he went over to calm Lingard down and get him to focus (Lingard got booed at one point when he kinda backheeled it into a throw, lol).
I hardly noticed him today, didn't get on the ball enough, for all the snide daggers aimed at Fellaini he was in the melee, trying to be a factor from first minute to last, I wish I could say the same for Pogba.
When we were being outclassed in the first half, he was often stood in no man's land watching Fellaini trying to stem the tide on his own. If he'd dropped 10 yards and helped Fellaini out more often, we might have been able to get a foothold in the game.
He looked decent carrying the ball a few times, but his overall performance was outshone by Fellaini and Herrera in my opinion.
He looked decent carrying the ball a few times, but his overall performance was outshone by Fellaini and Herrera in my opinion.
Probably the most depressing part about his performance.
Hopefully he shows his quality next time we play them.
I thought he just looked fatigued today. Was struggling to get back in position when we lost the ball up the pitch. No big deal, just a bad time to be lacking energy.
Anonymous and poor over the past 2 games with flashes of good moments - no doubt the long summer, lack of pre-season, learning new systems etc is catching up with him but whilst a big talent, after the buzz/fanfare comes the sobering reality that he's going to need time/patience.
I think the real issue here there's NO midfield two in the world that can play against the best teams.
There's only one that plays a 4-2-3-1 like us and that's Real Madrid, however, they play in a two horse league and have superstars all over the pitch. And even then Zidane has addressed this issue with playing Kovavic alongside Modric and Kroos.
The next similar is Atletico Madrid's 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 who play midfielders out wide (Koke, Saul), oh and have this little player called Griezmann. Without Greizmann they would be a much lesser outfit.
That's why people are calling out Rooney. He's not a Greizmann, Ronaldo, Bale, Morata as a no 10/forward player and neither a Koke, Saul, Modric, Morata midfielder.
Whenever Rooney is in the team, we are playing 4-4-2. We get overrun by any half decent team that can pass and press.
Agree completely.
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