Paul Gascoigne | Still living

duffer

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I saw him in tesco about 10 minutes ago. He's very skinny but seemed in good spirits (loads of people were taking photos with the bloke as he was doing his shopping!).

I did have a nosey into his trolley, there was no booze.
 

Needham

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I saw him in tesco about 10 minutes ago. He's very skinny but seemed in good spirits (loads of people were taking photos with the bloke as he was doing his shopping!).

I did have a nosey into his trolley, there was no booze.
You alright, yourself? Your post was itself a bit Gascoigney.
 

Mal donaghy

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I saw him in tesco about 10 minutes ago. He's very skinny but seemed in good spirits (loads of people were taking photos with the bloke as he was doing his shopping!).

I did have a nosey into his trolley, there was no booze.
:lol: Best line ever "there was no booze" after scanning the contents of his trolley!!, typical of how a Caf member thinks!
 

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To me he was different to most english players because he had a totally different style of play. At that time the game was mostly about kicking it high up the field or attack on the wings. The fields in England were also in a bad condition - however, all these characteristics built the foundation of a very popular league.

As a player he was (this will probably be the weirdest comparison of the year) like a small, young and speedy Ibrahimovic, one that was designed to play in midfield. Really good vision and moves. Maybe not as smooth as Ronaldinho, but a lot of creativity. Also a very good playmaker in a more advanced stage of his career.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Just a general question to everyone now: is Gascoigne battling addiction, mental illness, or both?
Don't know how he's doing right now, but in the past he has certainly struggled with both. It wasn't just the booze, he suffered badly from depression, etc.
 

Rob67

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Real shame how his life has turned out. I was at Old Trafford to witness one of the best midfield displays by him in the late 80's/early 90's.
Absolutely brilliant player. Should have come to United when he had the chance.
 

Marching

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I can fully appreciate that. I've suffered from addiction myself and know firsthand the pain it causes. Gazza has been offered far more help than your everyday man but seemingly doesn't want to help himself. He lost my sympathy a long time ago.
You know fuck all about Paul Gasgoigne. The fact you have suffered from addiction means nothing. Your earlier comment is a disgraceful thing to say and if that's the kind of individual you are I hope it comes back to bite you on your arse.
 

Marching

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I saw him in tesco about 10 minutes ago. He's very skinny but seemed in good spirits (loads of people were taking photos with the bloke as he was doing his shopping!).

I did have a nosey into his trolley, there was no booze.
His life is a roller coaster. The S*n sit and wait for the downs and plaster their rag with it but are rarely interested when he picks himself up.
 
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Mal donaghy

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Real shame how his life has turned out. I was at Old Trafford to witness one of the best midfield displays by him in the late 80's/early 90's.
Absolutely brilliant player. Should have come to United when he had the chance.
Yep I bet that is one of his demons, regretting not signing for Fergie when he was so close to doing so. He could have done it all with us, sad really.
 

Classical Mechanic

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His life is a roller coaster. The S*n sit and wait for the downs and plaster their rag with it but are really interested when he picks himself up.
If you see his interviews about his drinking he tends to have long periods of sobriety, 9, 12 and 18 months at a time and then relapses quite badly for a short period.
 

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Had the potential to be one of the best ever. What could have been..
 

Lay

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Every time I see this thread bumped, I fear the worst.
 

Welsh Wonder

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Scum paper. A young girl I knew from school died a couple of years ago due to a heart condition she had and there was a Sun journo hanging about the school trying get quotes from sixth form students that it was drug use (mcat, specifically) that contributed to her death.
 

JohnnyKills

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Scum paper. A young girl I knew from school died a couple of years ago due to a heart condition she had and there was a Sun journo hanging about the school trying get quotes from sixth form students that it was drug use (mcat, specifically) that contributed to her death.
Yeah. I worked with an ex-tabloid journo a couple of years back and he was an absolute prick. Had this bitter, nasty view of the world and thought everyone else should subscribe to it. Also kept complaining about our editorial style because, according to him, it was boring compared to the red-tops.

Have met a few other Sun/Star journos in my line of work and they're the same. A bunch of schnide, snivelling little men with a rancid view of the world, and think anyone famous is fair game for a takedown.
 

JohnnyKills

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On Gascoigne, apparently his alcoholism began at Rangers. Walter Smith gave the players carte blanche to do what they wanted and there was a big drinking culture at the club, with lots of big boozers like Andy Goram.

Then he went to Middlesbrough and they put him in a house with Paul Merson, completely unsupervised.

The mind boggles at how professional football is run. Absolutely disgraceful.
 

balaks

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Of course racism is wrong but the man is mentally ill, where is the point in prosecuting him for this? Who's going to gain anything?
Just because he may be suffering from a mental illness does not excuse racism and the point of prosecuting him has nothing to do with Gazza - it has to do with the person he directed the abuse towards - they deserve to have the protection of the judicial system from stuff like this. People tend to hide behind the excuse of mental illness for a multiude of sins but it's rarely to do with a mental illness, rather a person being a prick.

An example of this would be a woman that my wife used to work with who stole around £15000 from her work by fiddling the books, it all came out and she got away with it scott free because she said she had a mental illness. I've yet to find a mental illness with theft as a symptom and neither have I found one that makes you racist.
 

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Just because he may be suffering from a mental illness does not excuse racism and the point of prosecuting him has nothing to do with Gazza - it has to do with the person he directed the abuse towards - they deserve to have the protection of the judicial system from stuff like this. People tend to hide behind the excuse of mental illness for a multiude of sins but it's rarely to do with a mental illness, rather a person being a prick.

An example of this would be a woman that my wife used to work with who stole around £15000 from her work by fiddling the books, it all came out and she got away with it scott free because she said she had a mental illness. I've yet to find a mental illness with theft as a symptom and neither have I found one that makes you racist.
Gazza is an alcoholic/former alcoholic with a multitude of mental illness, he's not in any way shape or form to accurately monitor the things he says or is goaded into or whatever. You say so clearly mental illness is no excuse but actually it is, we don't know the particular context and furthermore the example you use to back up your point is utterly irrelevant. Just become someone may have cheated the system (then again, maybe she did genuinely have a mental illness) doesn't mean everyone with mental illness is doing so. In fact, it's your attitude towards mental illness that perpetuates the stigma around it.
 

balaks

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Gazza is an alcoholic/former alcoholic with a multitude of mental illness, he's not in any way shape or form to accurately monitor the things he says or is goaded into you. You say so clearly mental illness is no excuse but actually it is, we don't know the particular context and furthermore the example you use to back up your point is utterly irrelevant. Just become someone may have cheated the system (then again, maybe she did genuinely have a mental illness) doesn't mean everyone with mental illness is doing so. In fact, it's your attitude towards mental illness that perpetuates the stigma around it.
Quite the opposite actually - I'm arguing against the very stigma you are highlighting - people with mental illness do not generally do stuff like steal, be racist or be anti-social in general. That is my point - for people to link mental illness to such behaviour is wrong imo.

Gazza made a racist comment because he is an idiot not because he may or may not have a mental illness. The other example I used was a woman getting away with theft because of the very stigma you mentioned - she was a thief who used the stigma and fear around mental health to get away with it.
 

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Quite the opposite actually - I'm arguing against the very stigma you are highlighting - people with mental illness do not generally do stuff like steal, be racist or anti-social in general. That is my point - for people to link mental illness to such behaviour is wrong imo.

Gazza made a racist comment because he is an idiot not because he may or may not have a mental illness.
Plenty of people with mental illness go about doing the things you're saying? I'm unclear as to why you think otherwise. The stigma clearly comes from saying 'Gazza is an idiot' then saying he may or may not have a mental illness - there is no doubt - he does. How do you know that his 'idiocy' isn't linked to his mental illness which seems to have started around the time one of his close friends died.
 

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Keep expecting to hear the inevitable any time this thread is bumped.
 

Carlsen19

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What the hell am I reading in here? People are using his mental health to try and excuse racism? :lol:
 

balaks

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Plenty of people with mental illness go about doing the things you're saying? I'm unclear as to why you think otherwise. The stigma clearly comes from saying 'Gazza is an idiot' then saying he may or may not have a mental illness - there is no doubt - he does. How do you know that his 'idiocy' isn't linked to his mental illness which seems to have started around the time one of his close friends died.
Plenty of people WITHOUT ANY MENTAL ILLNESS go about doing the things I am saying also - what on earth is your point? I'm not saying people (with or without mental illness) are not capable of being racist- I'm saying that if they are a racist it is because they are a complete prat - not because they are mentally ill.

I know that his 'idiocy' is not linked to any mental illness because having worked with people with mental illness for several years I am able to make the distinction between 'behaviour' (in this case, a man making a racist comment towards somebody) and 'mental illness' which is defined by a variety of symptoms, none of which include being racist.
 

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I know that his 'idiocy' is not linked to any mental illness because having worked with people with mental illness for several years I am able to make the distinction between 'behaviour' (in this case, a man making a racist comment towards somebody) and 'mental illness' which is defined by a variety of symptoms, none of which include being racist.
Yes of course but that doesn't mean mental illness, especially in someone like Gazza's case with the alcoholism on top, means he isn't un-inhibited in the extreme, to the point whereby nothing would really belie belief. The ends will people go in desperation to cry for attention etc? No-one is excusing racism but it'd be incorrect thinking mental illness doesn't make people do, say, think or act in ways they don't want to or even realise.
 

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Quite the opposite actually - I'm arguing against the very stigma you are highlighting - people with mental illness do not generally do stuff like steal, be racist or be anti-social in general. That is my point - for people to link mental illness to such behaviour is wrong imo.

Gazza made a racist comment because he is an idiot not because he may or may not have a mental illness. The other example I used was a woman getting away with theft because of the very stigma you mentioned - she was a thief who used the stigma and fear around mental health to get away with it.
It's not that straightforward, though. The purpose of the law is to protect the weakest in society. In this instance there's an argument - I'm not saying I agree with it btw - that the person who needs protection is the person with the illness. You're quite right, though. Not all mentally ill people say what he said. And, similar to the John Terry case, I'd argue that the language used doesn't just pop into your head from nowhere. It's usually part of who you are or has formed part of the currency of your home life or upbringing, whether or not you actually use the language openly.

However, to suggest that him making the comment had nothing to do with his illness(es) might not be true. He may well have said something in a momentary loss of self-control, the wording of which may have reflected his intent to hurt the other person rather than express his own views. None of which says he shouldn't have been prosecuted, tbf. But equally, Courts and we as society, are fully entitled to look at the entirety of the circumstances and decide that the act complained of doesn't necessarily reflect that person and that they should be given an opportunity to show that. It's a very complex question. You can end up with the victim feeling that the perpetrator hasn't been sufficiently punished. But the law has to take the larger view, rather than favouring punishments that are subjectively-pleasing to victims (though they'll often be one and the same).

I suppose, long story short, I think it's probably right that he was charged, but could also have seen some small amount of rationale behind not doing so, or at least affording him the opportunity of presenting the unique context that led to him doing what he did.
 

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Plenty of people WITHOUT ANY MENTAL ILLNESS go about doing the things I am saying also - what on earth is your point? I'm not saying people (with or without mental illness) are not capable of being racist- I'm saying that if they are a racist it is because they are a complete prat - not because they are mentally ill.
I think it is this key point that I think is both false and intellectually dishonest.
 

Brophs

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Doubt he'll get called up by English NT to save it mate, let it go.
Get the old band back together. Gerrard and Lampard sitting deep together, Rooney and Gazza floating ahead of them, like two peanut-filled, unflushable turds.
 

Adzzz

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It's not that straightforward, though. The purpose of the law is to protect the weakest in society. In this instance there's an argument - I'm not saying I agree with it btw - that the person who needs protection is the person with the illness. You're quite right, though. Not all mentally ill people say what he said. And, similar to the John Terry case, I'd argue that the language used doesn't just pop into your head from nowhere. It's usually part of who you are or has formed part of the currency of your home life or upbringing, whether or not you actually use the language openly.

However, to suggest that him making the comment had nothing to do with his illness(es) might not be true. He may well have said something in a momentary loss of self-control, the wording of which may have reflected his intent to hurt the other person rather than express his own views. None of which says he shouldn't have been prosecuted, tbf. But equally, Courts and we as society, are fully entitled to look at the entirety of the circumstances and decide that the act complained of doesn't necessarily reflect that person and that they should be given an opportunity to show that. It's a very complex question. You can end up with the victim feeling that the perpetrator hasn't been sufficiently punished. But the law has to take the larger view, rather than favouring punishments that are subjectively-pleasing to victims (though they'll often be one and the same).

I suppose, long story short, I think it's probably right that he was charged, but could also have seen some small amount of rationale behind not doing so, or at least affording him the opportunity of presenting the unique context that led to him doing what he did.
Good points made, I also think he should have been charged but due to the circumstances of his life and mind, Gazza is now a man convicted of racism but in my head I don't think of him as a racist, rather a man who is severely troubled and long ago lost the ability to function properly in society.
 

montpelier

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He's on stage talking to a Group of people would my reason for saying a prosecution is reasonable. I'm not saying he's fomenting racial hatred with a lame joke like this but it's not a good thing to be doing. He is picking on, singling out, an individual who was minding his own business by the sound of it.
 

balaks

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I think it is this key point that I think is both false and intellectually dishonest.
Well that is your opinion - I can assure you i'm not being 'intellectually dishonest' when I say that racism is not a symptom of mental illness. Clearly you have made up your mind on Gazza and as he is a 'severely troubled' (not doubting that at all by the way) man you appear to think that he should be able to get away with saying whatever he wants.
 

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Well that is your opinion - I can assure you i'm not being 'intellectually dishonest' when I say that racism is not a symptom of mental illness. Clearly you have made up your mind on Gazza and as a 'severely troubled' man you appear to think that he should be able to get away with saying whatever he wants.
FYI

Good points made, I also think he should have been charged but due to the circumstances of his life and mind, Gazza is now a man convicted of racism but in my head I don't think of him as a racist, rather a man who is severely troubled and long ago lost the ability to function properly in society.