Patrick Dorgu | Medical tomorrow

Zed 101 said:
The difference is Dalot is not rapid and does not run past players, Dorgu is rapid and at the least tries to run past players
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Dalot has shown his running power in the past though. There was a time when he kept making incredible recovery tackles. He looks completely drained these days...not sure if it's confidence or being overplayed and out of position.

I'm by no means saying he will be good enough long term as a WB, and he still hasn't erased those lapses and brain farts that have always held him back, but he should at least be a serviceable RWB in this system. Especially if there is a good attacking threat on the other side.

It would keep Amad higher up the pitch too.
 
Crimson King said:
Dalot has shown his running power in the past though. There was a time when he kept making incredible recovery tackles. He looks completely drained these days...not sure if it's confidence or being overplayed and out of position.

I'm by no means saying he will be good enough long term as a WB, and he still hasn't erased those lapses and brain farts that have always held him back, but he should at least be a serviceable RWB in this system. Especially if there is a good attacking threat on the other side.

It would keep Amad higher up the pitch too.
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I assume this is the plan if we bring in Dorgu and he works out decently for us. Dalot RWB and Amad at 10
 
Tallis said:
Is this the lad that comes on the Stretford Paddock podcast sometimes to talk about Academy players. He is quite knowledgeable so interesting to hear his perspective.
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His perspective will be what many of us have said about Alvaro Fernandez for a while, despite the Caf pining for him since he's left.

Technically he's good and has the potential to be great but he is very slow and his positional awareness is lacking. For the good of his career, he's best served staying at Benfica at least another season, whilst we sign someone who is more athletic.

Dorgu sounds like he ticks a lot of boxes, young, tall, athletic, plays LWB and has had time in attacking positions to develop his attacking skills also.
 
hellhunter said:
I assume this is the plan if we bring in Dorgu and he works out decently for us. Dalot RWB and Amad at 10
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It's also why I hope we get Dorgu done. Sure, he's not first choice, but we weren't getting those until the summer, and with heavy competition. It also seems relatively risk fee if we can get it done under €40m and cut up slightly with add ons.

Dorgu's wages would be relatively low, so if you have to move him on in a couple of years because you want to upgrade then it shouldn't be difficult to do that and break even on PSR. At the moment he's an upgrade on anything we have at LWB, and for all we know he could really take to playing in this system. Short term it will at least provide some balance...I hope.

I do wonder if it means we'll still have to sign someone else for that position in the summer, as that Leon kid most likely won't be ready, so we'd still just have Dorgu. It probably allows you to concentrate on a RWB though, maybe one who can play both sides. When Amorim's system has all the pieces he often inverts the WBs, like he did with Quenda.
 
Is this happening only for us or other clubs also have that similar issues with finalizing deals? What’s so complicated in getting that done. Seems like they bid and then think about another bid for 3 days. Lecce know we are desperate and it’s January so price won’t be the same as summer.
 
Ish said:
Yep, we absolutely need to sign players with that profile - size, pace, power (on top of the technical profile, of course). Our squad severely lacks those characteristics compared to other top teams - hell, in the EPL, it's probably lacking those traits compared to just about every other team.
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That's why we seem to be good against teams that have the ball as much or more than us. We can defend, we can be compact and we can break well. We can find a ball between the lines when spaces open up. The players have good technique for the most part. The problem is the technically weaker opposition are nearly always much stronger off the ball than us. They crash forward into dangerous areas and a ball is deflected back into a dangerous area and we can't react. It's why our own forwards rarely score scrappy goals. We are trying to play to our strengths and build up and exert pressure and find gaps but it just leaves us open to 2/3 really good athletes breaking up the pitch and us not being able to get back to contain them. We need to start crashing into the opposition box with full conviction and we also need stronger runners off the ball going the other way.
 
Ish said:
Yep, we absolutely need to sign players with that profile - size, pace, power (on top of the technical profile, of course). Our squad severely lacks those characteristics compared to other top teams - hell, in the EPL, it's probably lacking those traits compared to just about every other team.
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Couldn't agree more and those characteristics are definitely required to play wing back in this system which is why I don't understand the constant shouts for us to resign Alvaro instead of a player like Dorgu.
 
Seeing a lot of Dorgu v Alvaro here but is there an argument for having both. We don't really have any viable left wing backs and so could do with 2 options. Dorgu could primarily play on the right though to allow Amad to push on. Think we definitely need 2 wingbacks, Dalot can be a backup option there and Maz can be considered an option at RCB or LCB

Dorgu/Dalot
Yoro/Maz
De Ligt/Maguire
Martinez/Maz
Alvaro/Dorgu
 
Two questions:

1) How good is Dorgu at crossing?

2) It's not Dorgu relevant but since he is mentioned often, how would Alvaro Carreras fit in a LWB role? Is he more of a full back or does he have the attributes to be a LWB?
 
Cutch said:
Seeing a lot of Dorgu v Alvaro here but is there an argument for having both. We don't really have any viable left wing backs and so could do with 2 options. Dorgu could primarily play on the right though to allow Amad to push on. Think we definitely need 2 wingbacks, Dalot can be a backup option there and Maz can be considered an option at RCB or LCB

Dorgu/Dalot
Yoro/Maz
De Ligt/Maguire
Martinez/Maz
Alvaro/Dorgu
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Don’t think we’re going to sign a specialist LB to then play him on the right. Although he as played RW for lecce before and scored. But I think next season we will see a different set up. I think he wants a defender as the LWB and a winger as the RWB. Similar to what he did at sporting… that’s why Amad as been tried at RWB but he hasn’t tried Garnacho as LWB. Makes no sense next season to be playing 5 defenders. One of the wing backs needs to be attacking. We should go in for that Quenda from sporting.
 
Cutch said:
Seeing a lot of Dorgu v Alvaro here but is there an argument for having both. We don't really have any viable left wing backs and so could do with 2 options. Dorgu could primarily play on the right though to allow Amad to push on. Think we definitely need 2 wingbacks, Dalot can be a backup option there and Maz can be considered an option at RCB or LCB

Dorgu/Dalot
Yoro/Maz
De Ligt/Maguire
Martinez/Maz
Alvaro/Dorgu
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I’d say yes, but we also just signed Diego Leon. So maybe the club rate him for coming into the first team next season. Either way, if we sign both we would have Dorgu, Leon, Alvaro and Amass all left wing backs and all 22 and under. Bit of a logjam then.
 
steeeb said:
Amoriums system is very very reliable on attack minded wing backs that can run to form a back 5 or front 5 on demand. We look so poor because we have no one who can do this. (The 2 10s also do the same but that's less of an issue than the LWB). Why people keep overlooking this or recommending unsuitable players I don't know. He's the most suitable player availible, yes there will be a Jan tax on it, but this is the biggest problem to solve and solving it now before everyone loses faith is worth the extra.
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100% agree, lets get the type of players Amorim's system needs.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Couldn't agree more and those characteristics are definitely required to play wing back in this system which is why I don't understand the constant shouts for us to resign Alvaro instead of a player like Dorgu.
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People underestimating the physical requirements of a wingback in Amorims system. They need to have the pace to crash into the opposition box on every attack, creating an overload but at the same time have the stamina to bust a gut and get back to defend. It is the most physically demanding position in this setup. Which is why a 6ft2 with pace, power and stamina is such an attraction.
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
I think Dalot is pretty rapid but for some reason he doesn’t use it half as much as he should.
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I don't have the stats but based on the eye test, I bet he does amongst the most sprints for us. Our problem is that we're playing him on the left when he's far more at home on the right. He's still capable of good games like Liverpool where he destroyed TAA. If signing Dorgu means we get to put Dalot back on the right and Mazraoui either back to RCB or the bench then I think it could work well for us.
 
Ali Dia said:
That's why we seem to be good against teams that have the ball as much or more than us. We can defend, we can be compact and we can break well. We can find a ball between the lines when spaces open up. The players have good technique for the most part. The problem is the technically weaker opposition are nearly always much stronger off the ball than us. They crash forward into dangerous areas and a ball is deflected back into a dangerous area and we can't react. It's why our own forwards rarely score scrappy goals. We are trying to play to our strengths and build up and exert pressure and find gaps but it just leaves us open to 2/3 really good athletes breaking up the pitch and us not being able to get back to contain them. We need to start crashing into the opposition box with full conviction and we also need stronger runners off the ball going the other way.
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Tom Van Persie said:
Couldn't agree more and those characteristics are definitely required to play wing back in this system which is why I don't understand the constant shouts for us to resign Alvaro instead of a player like Dorgu.
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Yeah agreed with you both. We need more physicality across the board.

It still absolutely baffles me and boils my piss that EtH cited peps underestimation of the physicality and speed of the EPL (to sum up why perhaps it took Pep a season to adjust to the league with tons of cash)….then with that insight before his man united tenure….just why the f did he make 80%-90% of the signings he made, lacking all those traits!? FFS.
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
I think Dalot is pretty rapid but for some reason he doesn’t use it half as much as he should.
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That’s because he’s knackered running up and down the pitch so much without a rest, if we had 4/5 good options at wing back we would get more out of all of them to play this system, the wing backs are key and they should play no more than 35-40 matches or they’ll break down with injuries and fatigue.
 
Woziak said:
That’s because he’s knackered running up and down the pitch so much without a rest, if we had 4/5 good options at wing back we would get more out of all of them to play this system, the wing backs are key and they should play no more than 35-40 matches or they’ll break down with injuries and fatigue.
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Yeh that’s fair, a lot is asked of them in this system. I just think he holds back from using his pace and strength going forwards.
 
Ish said:
Yeah agreed with you both. We need more physicality across the board.

It still absolutely baffles me and boils my piss that EtH cited peps underestimation of the physicality and speed of the EPL (to sum up why perhaps it took Pep a season to adjust to the league with tons of cash)….then with that insight before his man united tenure….just why the f did he make 80%-90% of the signings he made, lacking all those traits!? FFS.
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Yeah I mean even signings like Martinez look short sighted in that respect. Will never understand how he thought Antony would cut it in the EPL
 
I do think this signing has shades of the Rasmus signing though. On paper in theory he's statistically what the team is currently missing but in a much slower weaker league. In practice he's come from nowhere relatively to all of a sudden skipping past all these players who were rated much higher than him the whole way up through youth football and his first years in the senior game. A physical grounded player who kept working hard at their game out of the spotlight who eventually starts to combine everything. I do think we are probably going to end up expecting too much too soon in the end though

The jump up couldn't be any more massive but I also think we need to be more left field with our first team recruitment. I hope he can surprise us all and help the attack become greater than the sum of its parts. He doesn't need to be technically brilliant and he's clearly a good athlete. Also we are badly badly missing having a brave player who can get in behind at will and can turn teams around. All our play is out in front or down the left and then cut back. It's woefully predictable for any opposition team that wants to just sit in and go hard on the counter
 
Crimson King said:
Yeah I mean even signings like Martinez look short sighted in that respect. Will never understand how he thought Antony would cut it in the EPL
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Excuse the pun ("short") :lol:

But yeah, it's understandable to sign one or maybe 2 of such players - if their other attributes are exceptional (like Bernardo Silva, as an example)....but then you surround them absolutely with physicality and pace to compensate for their lack of it....not end up signing a squad filled with the same shortcomings. Alas, why EtH or even the fecking powers that be all allowed us to waste so much money - I think that's incompetence possibly only "beaten" by the likes of Bartomeu (and even then, Barca has a less competitive league as something to fall back on)...
 
Ali Dia said:
I do think this signing has shades of the Rasmus signing though. On paper in theory he's statistically what the team is currently missing but in a much slower weaker league. In practice he's come from nowhere relatively to all of a sudden skipping past all these players who were rated much higher than him the whole way up through youth football and his first years in the senior game. A physical grounded player who kept working hard at their game out of the spotlight who eventually starts to combine everything. I do think we are probably going to end up expecting too much too soon in the end though

The jump up couldn't be any more massive but I also think we need to be more left field with our first team recruitment. I hope he can surprise us all and help the attack become greater than the sum of its parts. He doesn't need to be technically brilliant and he's clearly a good athlete. Also we are badly badly missing having a player who can go behind and can turn teams around. All our play is out in front or down the left and then cut back. It's woefully predictable for any opposition team that wants to just sit in and go hard on the counter
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That's the big worry, yeah. Profiles similar enough to be worried in this regard
 
hellhunter said:
That's the big worry, yeah. Profiles similar enough to be worried in this regard
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It would be a bit like if McT came through at a smaller club and was getting a lot of games and looked a good athlete, good professional, not fancied at youth but his game is now improving at a fast rate... flagged up as definitely worth a punt for a bigger club but clearly needs to improve. Can that bigger club put the years and patience into developing the player to the extent they need to become a top player? Most likely not as someone better and younger will emerge in meantime. We should have went for Nuno Mendez when he was leaving sporting. He was always clearly the best young LB in Europe, the kind that can only come around every few years if even that. This is another statistics punt on a grounded young player who can currently do a role and whose ceiling is impossible to predict. It's time our scouts got another one right anyway
 
Zed 101 said:
The difference is Dalot is not rapid and does not run past players, Dorgu is rapid and at the least tries to run past players
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I keep hearing that he's absolutely rapid but nothing I'm seeing demonstrates it. Looks like he has above average athleticism alright but he's no Alphonso Davies. Not even sure he'd be faster than Rasmus who barely gets separation from defenders in the PL.

Also people are putting a lot of weight on that FourFourTwo video which itself puts weight on his attacking stats from fbref. However, these stats are benchmarked against other defenders. When you actually benchmark him against wingers which a) Dorgu has been playing a lot of his games as; and b) he United will want him to effectively perform as in Amorim's system, his numbers are really poor. People are getting really pissy over this because they think others are just being perma-moans but I genuinely think he just doesn't look like a €40mn player and nobody wants a AWB situation again.

I'd love to hear counter-arguments as all I've hear people say is that he's a big talent (vague) or "i'll trust the United scouting team over you thanks". Where are the Danish national team fans to rave about him? I read somewhere that they were even saying he's no good (although haven't seen that myself).
 
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Uncle Mainoo said:
Yeah it felt very similar to literally EVER player we are about to sign. Then they get here.

I’m not even interested in any positive PR. All we need to do is make sure we aren’t getting riped off.
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Agreed. In no world is a player of that experience, playing for a relegation fighting team in Serie A worth 40m or even 30m *unless* they look well polished in every facet of that role (which he does not).

In fact given Leece might get relegated, he'd probably be available for a deep discount come summer.
 
VP89 said:
Agreed. In no world is a player of that experience, playing for a relegation fighting team in Serie A worth 40m or even 30m *unless* they look well polished in every facet of that role (which he does not).

In fact given Leece might get relegated, he'd probably be available for a deep discount come summer.
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Could say someone panicking :smirk:
 
Station Dave raised a valid point about Dorgu’s versatility—he can operate as a left or right wing-back and even slot in as a left-sided centre-back. However, in my view, what we truly need is a polished, specialist wing-back who can hit the ground running and make an immediate impact, rather than someone has potential.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Station Dave raised a valid point about Dorgu’s versatility—he can operate as a left or right wing-back and even slot in as a left-sided centre-back. However, in my view, what we truly need is a polished, specialist wing-back who can hit the ground running and make an immediate impact, rather than someone has potential.
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Where do you get one for 40m or less?
 
golden_blunder said:
Where do you get one for 40m or less?
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With all due respect, identifying a wing-back for £40 million or less is not responsibility. However, it’s important to note that, aside from Hakimi and Cancelo—both signed by some of Europe’s wealthiest club owners, and Wan-Bissaka, which highlights United’s somewhat amateurish approach when negotiating with other clubs—there hasn’t been a full-back transfer exceeding £40 million in recent years. Given this context, I would expect United to be more than capable of securing a reputable player who can meet the tactical and technical demands set by Ruben Amorim.

That said, if Amorim has identified Dorgu as his preferred option to fulfil those requirements, I would be fully on board with that decision.
 
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