Gaming Paradox Interactive grand strategy games (Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings etc.)

Once you've controlled a territory (i.e. diagonal lines cover it) you have to sue for peace, and claim it during the bargaining phase.

Depending on the reason you picked for going to war, you'll have to make certain levels of sacrifice (infamy) in order to take control of the territory, and you can't go over your warscore. If you went to war without a good casus belli, you're pretty stuffed.
 
Ah right, okay. So there's the problem, I have no idea what warscore or casus bellie means so I'm going to have to do the fecking tutorial.

Is Crusader Kings any easier to just pick up and play? I don't mind working out the intricacies to a game like Europa Universalis but I don't have the time or patience for it at the minute.
 
Just started playing Europa Universalis after giving Crusader Kings a rest. The learning curve was pretty steep (this is my second attempt at understanding the game mechanics). However, I can say that I am enjoying this game. Currently playing as Austria in 1560 and have finally colonised parts of Cuba and Haiti. Took so bloody long for me to get a port province that was close to Vienna.

Ah right, okay. So there's the problem, I have no idea what warscore or casus bellie means so I'm going to have to do the fecking tutorial.

Is Crusader Kings any easier to just pick up and play? I don't mind working out the intricacies to a game like Europa Universalis but I don't have the time or patience for it at the minute.

I think CKII is a bit* easier, but then again the game mechanics are a bit different. However both tutorials are below par. Better to read and watch guides on youtube/forums.

In CK the focus is building your dynasty, rather than the power and control of a nation or kingdom. Paradox have done really well in making both games IMO.

My favourite game was when I started out as the Duke of Lombardi and finally forming the Kingdom of Italy and revolted against the Holy Roman Empire for my Independence :D
 
Pre-ordered, locked and loaded!

Most excited about the re-write of the netcode and the move to steam for multiplay.
 
Yeah also heard you can carry over your CK2 saves unto EU4 and vise versa. Sounds sweet.
 
Yeah also heard you can carry over your CK2 saves unto EU4 and vise versa. Sounds sweet.

Wait, is this for real? They did something with CK1 and EU3 but I thought they'd said they wouldn't do anything like that for this?
 
Wait, is this for real? They did something with CK1 and EU3 but I thought they'd said they wouldn't do anything like that for this?


Yep. It's on the game's steam page:

All pre-purchasers will also receive a new Saved Game Converter for Crusader Kings II and a free copy of Crusader Kings II. This will read the details of a saved game from CKII and convert that into a game that can be played on Europa Universalis IV. Fans of CKII will be able to maintain the empires they have established and guide them through the age of exploration in all new strategic experience, continuing their personal stories of expansion and conquest.
 
Awesome, though depressingly that seems to suggest that if you *don't* pre-order then you have to buy it.
 
Playing some Crusader Kings 2 over the past few days. What a fecking game! Started out as King of Denmark (:cool:) and got one of my kids married off to the Polish king who has a massive army. Took over some of Sweden (easy enough with holy war) so far, large thanks to him. Made a bit of a mistake in my second generation though. I was preparing my son to take over, so I figured I'd give him quite a bit of the newly conquered land - turns out he was a massive cnut though and was killing off kids left, right and center. Decided to make a nephew my heir instead, and he just took over. As soon as he took over one of the vassals got him excommunicated (the fecking cnut) though, which means I have a lot of work to do with improving relationships. Also made the mistake of giving one of my brothers, who has the tyranny trait, some land in my second generation.

In general, quite a few rookie mistakes as you'd expect on the first game, but the game is brilliant. It's actually exactly the sort of game I've been looking for, but never really had the patience to get proper into it before. There's so many things to learn and do, and I'm still quite clueless about many things.
 
Sadly, I can't afford it, so I've bought the Islam DLC for CK2 and am playing that instead :)
 
Can't afford to buy it at the moment either. Hey Kristjan, tell us how you get on. Ta.
 
I got into EU3 a couple of months ago. Watched a video guide to figure it out and glad I did.

Got EU4 yesterday when it was released, not had a proper long chance to sink my teeth into it yet but looks fairly good.
 
What's everyone's take on EU4 then? Not sure myself really. It's a great game, but I really don't like the monarch point system. I don't understand why building buildings should set you back tech-wise and that annoys me. I love that stuff (like fabricating claims, converting etc.) in linear rather than luck-based like CK2 though, and that there's so much transparency in the game (particularly in the diplomacy). There's a lot of good features, but the fact that buildings cost monarch points is taking a lot of the enjoyment away for me. I actually thought about looking into the possibility of changing it, but that might break the balance of the game if the AI doesn't adjust to it.
 
There are lots of things that I've had to get used to that weren't in EU3 (especially the new tech system). Still, I love the game and think it's an improvement over its predecessor. Currently playing as France to get a better understanding of the game and I'm doing well so far. Will try for a smaller nation when I'm done with this one. Who are you playing with Wowi?
 
What's everyone's take on EU4 then? Not sure myself really. It's a great game, but I really don't like the monarch point system. I don't understand why building buildings should set you back tech-wise and that annoys me. I love that stuff (like fabricating claims, converting etc.) in linear rather than luck-based like CK2 though, and that there's so much transparency in the game (particularly in the diplomacy). There's a lot of good features, but the fact that buildings cost monarch points is taking a lot of the enjoyment away for me. I actually thought about looking into the possibility of changing it, but that might break the balance of the game if the AI doesn't adjust to it.

I think the idea of the Monarch point system is to make the game, if not harder, then at least more interesting. More varied. If you get a bad monarch, you will simply have to choose what to prioritize, even more than you would with a good monarch. I am not quite used to it yet (I actually haven't played it that much, but I know I will sink hundreds/thousands of hours into it eventually), but I can see the reason for the change.

In EU3, once you got competent there was rarely any reason to play Beyond the 15-1600s unless you were playing a true minor or wanted to do a World Conquest.
 
I think the idea of the Monarch point system is to make the game, if not harder, then at least more interesting. More varied. If you get a bad monarch, you will simply have to choose what to prioritize, even more than you would with a good monarch. I am not quite used to it yet (I actually haven't played it that much, but I know I will sink hundreds/thousands of hours into it eventually), but I can see the reason for the change.

In EU3, once you got competent there was rarely any reason to play Beyond the 15-1600s unless you were playing a true minor or wanted to do a World Conquest.

Never played EU3, so can't comment on that, although I think they could've made the change differently. It just doesn't make sense to me in it's current state - why would the country with best developed infrastructure be behind on techs? At least put in some more buildings that increase tech gain/decrease tech cost, so you make it an investment. Even with a good monarch you'll struggle to afford buildings if you want to keep up in tech and expand your lands, I think.
 
It's supposed to be a trade-off. It's mostly a balance thing. Otherwise, with the monarch power system, which I think is fundamentally a good idea, buildings and tech would only create a positive feedback loop, a rich get richer sort of scenario.

You sort of hit the nail on the head yourself, inadvertently.

Even with a good monarch you'll struggle to afford buildings if you want to keep up in tech and expand your lands, I think.

You're simply not supposed to be able to keep up in buildings, tech and expand at the same time.
 
Enjoying my first EU4 game so far. Playing as Portugal who seem somewhat overpowered. I'm around 1600 and have every province in South America expect one controlled as a city or colony, except for a couple of inland provinces that no one but me can reach. I annexed the Inca empire which was probably stupid of me. You could do that without worry with the Native American countries in EU3, but in this game the rebels /over extension almost ruined me. After making cores and converting them everything is good now though, and I now set my sights on Asia as well as conquering some African countries with valuable resources. I already have all of South Africa (no gold over there this time around it seems) and am the only one that's reached the Philippines / Indonesia region.

I've got to say I haven't really understood the new trade system yet. You can either place a merchant in a trade node or have him divert trade? But to where? A random one within reach that you control? You send smaller ships to control each trade node which helps with tarifs, but also forwarding trade to nodes you control? Seems impossible to have a lot of power in all the nodes from Asia all the way back to Europe which I read you should be doing.. Maybe I have this part wrong.
 
It's supposed to be a trade-off. It's mostly a balance thing. Otherwise, with the monarch power system, which I think is fundamentally a good idea, buildings and tech would only create a positive feedback loop, a rich get richer sort of scenario.

You sort of hit the nail on the head yourself, inadvertently.



You're simply not supposed to be able to keep up in buildings, tech and expand at the same time.

I know that - it was just a counter argument to your "If you get a bad monarch, you will simply have to choose what to prioritize,", but looking back at it, it probably could've been worded better. :)

There wouldn't really be any loop though, considering that there's only one building (that you can only build one of) that actually helps tech directly. You can get buildings that give you more papal influence, which in turn increases your chance to control cardinals and reduce tech cost though - but not by very much. I understand completely that it's a balance thing, and that balance is vital in games like this, I just think it could've been done differently. In CK2 you can actually boost your tech-increase with buildings, and as far as I know that works quite well - but the techs aren't as vital as the ones in EU4, of course. For me, upping the cost to core, increasing the cost to spread your culture and keeping that balance that way would make a lot more sense. Like you say, I can see why they've made it the way it is, I just think it's a bit of the easy option and not realistic at all. Pretty much everything else about the game is spot on for me.

Out of curiosity, which nations have you played with so far? I started out with the usual easy game with Denmark (to get used to the game - as I said, I haven't played EU3, so a lot of new stuff for me) and took over most of the world (apart from large chunks of Asia) before getting bored. Playing a game with Austria at the moment and just managed to recreate the HRE. Might try doing the same with a smaller nation at some point.

I've got to say I haven't really understood the new trade system yet. You can either place a merchant in a trade node or have him divert trade? But to where? A random one within reach that you control? You send smaller ships to control each trade node which helps with tarifs, but also forwarding trade to nodes you control? Seems impossible to have a lot of power in all the nodes from Asia all the way back to Europe which I read you should be doing.. Maybe I have this part wrong.

If you transfer trade you can select the direction from the trade-map (assuming it goes in more than one direction of course) and it then gets added to the trade value at the next node. From there it can either be transferred further or be collected - in the end, you can have trade from Asia going all the way around Africa, to the eastern coast of America and then to Europe before it's collected. If you look a trade note you can hover the values and see where your trade power is coming from. You can get it from simply having provinces (certain provinces has a special modifier as well), buildings and protecting the trade note with your boats. It's a great aspect of the game and once you get the hang of it, it's actually quite simple - took me a while before I really understood it as well though ;)

Collecting from trade in a node where your capital isn't placed will give you a huge trade power penalty, but in certain cases it might be worth it anyway. Feel free to post more questions if you've got any - otherwise checking out youtube or a wiki is a good way to gain some understanding as well.
 
Cheers Wowi.. I get it now. Trade seems a whole lot better than last time around come think of it.

Regrettably, I will have to inform you that I will use this newly acquired knowledge in my quest to conquer Denmark in my next game as Sweden. ;)
 
Trade is a lot better than EU3. A lot more interesting, at least. They also removed bad-boy, or infamy, and replaced it with overextension.

I've only played a game with Ottoman Empire. I might try a World Conquest with France, but not sure how feasible it is with the new overextension system. With infamy you could use it to your benefit, to start bad-boy wars, and such. We'll see. No doubt someone will manage World Conquests, but then people have managed them in EU3 with the worst of one-province minors. I only did it with France, though to be fair the end was so tedious that I didn't want to try with anyone else.
 
Cheers Wowi.. I get it now. Trade seems a whole lot better than last time around come think of it.

Regrettably, I will have to inform you that I will use this newly acquired knowledge in my quest to conquer Denmark in my next game as Sweden. ;)
:mad:
Sweden actually grew quite a bit in the game I played as Austria. Took over most of Norway (and then PUed+annexed them), Skåne (and the neighbouring zones) and quite a bit of Novgorod/Muscory.

Trade is a lot better than EU3. A lot more interesting, at least. They also removed bad-boy, or infamy, and replaced it with overextension.

I've only played a game with Ottoman Empire. I might try a World Conquest with France, but not sure how feasible it is with the new overextension system. With infamy you could use it to your benefit, to start bad-boy wars, and such. We'll see. No doubt someone will manage World Conquests, but then people have managed them in EU3 with the worst of one-province minors. I only did it with France, though to be fair the end was so tedious that I didn't want to try with anyone else.

Isn't aggressive expansion part of the replacement of the infamy as well? Overextension is definitely your main problem when trying to do a world conquest - coring takes ages once you've got a lot of land, so often you're better off trying to vassalise even if it'll take a long time to get it done.
I read somewhere that someone took over the world as Aztec using a converted save game from the Sunset Invasion DLC for CK2.
 
EU4 is on sale a few places at the moment with 75% off:
$9.99 on http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D6K41V0 - for US citizens, or people who knows their way around that. ;)
€9.99 on https://www.humblebundle.com/store/p/europauniversalis4_storefront and €10 on http://www.bundlestars.com/store/europa-universalis-iv/
Very good deals if you still haven't picked up the game - definitely worth it at that price. A new DLC came out a few weeks back (Conquest of Paradise), but to be honest I don't think it's worth it. You're able to play as a native American tribe (which for the first ~200 years is fairly boring) and play with a randomised new world. It'll probably be on sale in a few weeks anyway.
 
Oh, I really like Conquest of Paradise. The random New World function is ace.
Yeah, it's pretty decent but €15 is way too much for randomly generated land and the ability to play as the natives IMO. I'll pick it up when it goes on sale though.
 
I'm playing EU4 for the first time, and the first time i've played a Paradox Interactive strategy game. I opened the game up at 2 am after i bought it in the steam sale and immediately closed it. Looks like you need a whole afternoon to yourself to learn the game. :lol:
 
It's a bit of a steep learning curve, but truly great once you figure things out. Start with a small country and try and figure things out. There's also a lot of youtube tutorials you can watch.

EU games can be intimidating, but they are actually the easy ones. The Hearts of Iron and especially Victoria games are just way beyond what I can handle.
 
I'm playing EU4 for the first time, and the first time i've played a Paradox Interactive strategy game. I opened the game up at 2 am after i bought it in the steam sale and immediately closed it. Looks like you need a whole afternoon to yourself to learn the game. :lol:
During my bachelor studies my roommate was a big fan of Paradox Interactive games and I watched him playing a few times. Was very intimidated so instead I continued playing Rome Total War. A much simple game.
 
It's a bit of a steep learning curve, but truly great once you figure things out. Start with a small country and try and figure things out. There's also a lot of youtube tutorials you can watch.

EU games can be intimidating, but they are actually the easy ones. The Hearts of Iron and especially Victoria games are just way beyond what I can handle.
During my bachelor studies my roommate was a big fan of Paradox Interactive games and I watched him playing a few times. Was very intimidated so instead I continued playing Rome Total War. A much simple game.

Yep. I've just spent a bit doing the tutorials and they have a tutorial which runs like a normal save so that should help a lot. It is intimidating but i've gotten a little bored of always going back to Total War games so it's great to have something different. It does look and feel like a game i'll enjoy a lot once i'm more accomplished at it though.
 
Yep. I've just spent a bit doing the tutorials and they have a tutorial which runs like a normal save so that should help a lot. It is intimidating but i've gotten a little bored of always going back to Total War games so it's great to have something different. It does look and feel like a game i'll enjoy a lot once i'm more accomplished at it though.

Paradox tutorials are notoriously bad, but I guess it helps a bit to get into the whole thing. They improved "quick tips" or whatever they're called, when you hover over some menu item a description turns up in game which should make things a bit easier.

I would play a game with a decent small decent nation that's not too close to the big bad blob countries like France or Austria and play on easy just to get the hang of it. Maybe something like Brandenburg.

The menu's must seem terrible at first, but it's actually not that bad. A lot of the stuff isn't that important or something you need to check all the time.

I pretty much exclusively use the political map mode. The ledger is great for stats.

Make sure to check your finances regularly and lower Army and Navy maintenance when you can. Try not to start a war with a country without a casus belli (and check their alliances!), since getting a bad reputation can destroy you. You could for instance fabricate claims and you'll be able to attack them without the world getting too pissed at you.
 
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Sound advice from Iron Stove. Only ever go to war without a CB (casus belli) if you have an extremely good reason to - and, as a new player you don't. ;) Also, as said, make sure to check alliances before going to war. That small state next to you might be allied with a very powerful nation - and if you attack, that powerful nation will take over as "war leader" for the defensive side and most likely call in extra allies. If you're very unlikely (/careless), you can end up with some really nasty chains. I saw this thread on Paradox' forum the other day, which is by far the most extreme example of "chain alliances" I've ever heard of:
I also wish to know.

I'm fed up with those disgusting cascading alliances.

Cmon, in my Aztec game, i attack the Papal states in order to get Rome.

The Papal states call in Aragon as Allies.

Then Aragon becomes war leader and call in Portugal + some minor states. I was expecting that.

Then Portugal becomes war leader and call in Castile + England. What?

Then Castile becomes war leader and call in HRE and the Commonwealth (which i had a alliance with) (???)

HRE then call Russia (which i had a alliance with). (WTF?)

Me and France got ass wooped by 1.3 million of soldiers (we had only 200 k).

Hell, i am now afraid on attacking even a little country. I don't know if cascading alliance is intended, but it's far more disgusting than a big coalition since you don't know who are your opponents.

So i would like the EXACT conditions for becoming the war leader. Or far better, to forbid more than one successive war leader.

Regarding who to start as; if you play on easy (which I'd suggest for your first playthrough) it doesn't really matter much, as there's little risk of you actually getting attacked. Playing a nation within the Holy Roman Empire (HRE) gives you further security, because the current emperor will automatically be called in if some nation not within the HRE attacks you. I think Portugal is a pretty good start for a new player - your big neighbour (Castille) automatically likes you from the start, so you can colonise and plan attacks into North Africa without having to worry about what's going on at home basically. Castille itself is not a bad choice either for new players, and there's some very interesting events. France is usually busy expanding eastwards, and from my experience you'll often be able to ally them which means that no one will even think about attacking you.

If you have the patience to stick with the game (as mentioned, the tutorials are basically useless) you'll be in for a treat. The sheer amount of stuff to do can be very confusing at first, but you'll get the hang of the basics fairly quickly and from then on you'll learn the specifics as you go. If you have any questions at all, I'd gladly do what I can to answer them. :)
 
Got this game during the steam summer sale, I've played two games so far, as Portugal to learn the ropes as I heard it was a nice learner country and as The Hansa in the HRE. I was thinking of starting an Ironman game and I was wondering if anybody had any tips on who to play?
 
Got this game during the steam summer sale, I've played two games so far, as Portugal to learn the ropes as I heard it was a nice learner country and as The Hansa in the HRE. I was thinking of starting an Ironman game and I was wondering if anybody had any tips on who to play?
Depends on what you want to do. France, Ottomans and Muscovy are beyond easy mode and quite boring to play, but they might be suitable for a beginner. Castile and Austria are easy too, but have a serious rival in France at least. Austria is a more diplomatic game and gives you the chance to learn HRE mechanics. With Castile you can either go into Europe or have a relaxing colonial game like with Portugal. England is meh.

However, it's more fun having to work for your growth. I think a medium sized country in a good starting position would be best for you:
  • Brandenburg starts as an elector of the HRE, surrounded by other medium sized/smaller countries, has the strongest military ideas in the game and you have some good historical objectives you can achieve (form Prussia or Germany).
  • Tuscany is a similar proposition in Italy, good ideas, no immediate threat, can form Italy, then go beyond. (Savoy, Milan work similarly)
  • Aragon is an extremely versatile choice. You are in a good position to do whatever you want, become a trading power, land power, colonial power, all of them are quite feasible.
  • Burgundy is stronger than the others I've listed, but you are sandwiched between France and Austria who both want to eat you. On the upside, your lands are quite rich and you dominate the best trade node in the game (Antwerpen).
  • (Byzantium) makes for the most entertaining games, but it is in a difficult starting position. Try this when you have some more experience.