P & G Draft - R1: Tuppet vs Indnyc

[Indnyc]

Very probably. Now, it depends on the ranking criteria. Some would prefer Luis Monti for a destroyer role for mythological considerations.

I think Makélélé today would be the welcome anywhere. A beast for sure.

On the other hand, players like Bremner are also strong even if I know how the latter can score some goals but not how he defends!

That said, Bremner looked hard.

That’s fair.. A lot of times we pick players based on our opinions..

Makelele was one of those players I really wanted to come to United.. Was really upset when he went to Chelsea and basically transformed their midfield.. Kinda like Kante now

 

[Don Alfredo]

Gone for Tuppet. He has a well oiled front four which provides a great platform for Kocsis and ADS. Rosato and Hierro are stylistically a good fit for Kocsis but with service from ADS, Czibor and Jarizinho I think he will grab a couple. I see why Makelele makes sense on ADS but I was never a big fan of his and found him hugely overrated.

Gento and Rahn will cause problems for Tuppet (really liked the Rahn video, he looks tidy) and Puskas will probably score, I just think Tuppet will score more. Also I'm not 100% convinced of Puskas as a lone striker.

What is wrong with Puskas as lone CF? Is it much different to having guys like Romario or Aguero alone upfront?

I understand he is not the best fit if you want to play long ball tactics, but if you have the right guys besides him who will give him good passes, him getting chances (and goals) will surely happen. In this game, he has Suarez behind him and Gento on the left, who is known for great low crosses and has actual historical evidence for working perfectly with Puskas. The only LW who is a better fit for Puskas is the guy on the other side of the pitch, although I don't know who I would rate higher generally between those two.

 

[Indnyc]

I'm looking for a criteria to express a clear-cut opinion here.

I need to watch Greig, Mackay, mcneill and rosato

Some good plays of Rosato.. I haven’t had a chance to make Gifs out of this.. Sorry on mobile so slightly more difficult

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Gone for @Indnyc

Defences are about the same collectively (some better players individually on both sides). Like both forward lines and think they'd both create/score (both left flanks having most joy). The key for me is midfield and control ..... how Makalele would do against Di Stefano and who'd have most possession (without it, even the greats struggle?)

Makalele seems to be marmite here... love him or hate/don't really rate him? He proved in lots of leagues/comps that he can cope at the very top level and while Di Stefano is a step up for him, Di Stefano never played against modern Def Mids, never mind a very, very good one who can purely focus on stopping Di Stefano, or at least reducing his impact.

See 2-1, 3-2. Be a good game to watch.

 

[Indnyc]

What is wrong with Puskas as lone CF? Is it much different to having guys like Romario or Aguero alone upfront?

I understand he is not the best fit if you want to play long ball tactics, but if you have the right guys besides him who will give him good passes, him getting chances (and goals) will surely happen. In this game, he has Suarez behind him and Gento on the left, who is known for great low crosses and has actual historical evidence for working perfectly with Puskas. The only LW who is a better fit for Puskas is the guy on the other side of the pitch, although I don't know who I would rate higher generally between those two.

I would rate both of them on par along with Dzajic. In this game in particular though Czibor does have the added advantage of playing with Koscis

Puskas will always have support in my set up with Robson making runs from midfield, Suarez being up there, Rahn and Gento as well

 

[harms]

Makalele

It's Makelele (or even Makélélé). Please!
I'm sorry, but this particular spelling mistake really irks me, it's so bloody common.

 

[Theon]

It's Makelele (or even Makélélé). Please!
I'm sorry, but this particular spelling mistake really irks me, it's so bloody common.

Almost as common as Viera!

 

[harms]

Almost as common as Viera!

With Vie(i)ra I can at least understand it — it sure sounds a lot like it. Not the case with Makalele at all.

 

[Theon]

With Vie(i)ra I can at least understand it — it sure sounds a lot like it. Not the case with Makalele at all.

The harms hierarchy of spelling mistakes. You should publish them in some format.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

With Vie(i)ra I can at least understand it — it sure sounds a lot like it. Not the case with Makalele at all.

It's Makelele.

 

[Tuppet]

Very probably. Now, it depends on the ranking criteria. Some would prefer Luis Monti for a destroyer role for mythological considerations.

I think Makélélé today would be the welcome anywhere. A beast for sure.

On the other hand, players like Bremner are also strong even if I know how the latter can score some goals but not how he defends!

That said, Bremner looked hard.

Here's a quick clip to show whether Bremner can score -


In terms of number Bremner scored 97 goals in his club career which is not far from Robson's 115 goals.

For some reason the narrative seem that Makelele would limit Di Stefano but Bremner & Mackay would not be able to defend against Suarez & Robson. And this is what I think is really weird, as their accomplishments speak for themselves, Both are FWA player of the year, Bremner selected the greatest player of Leeds while Mackay second greatest of Spurs. Bremner had the highest rating in the Ballon D'or votes etc. And they are facing the easier challange of containing Suarez rather than Di Stefano. I actually have no idea how could we possibly lose the midfield battle. If you believe that Makelele would stop the greatest player on the pitch (and probably in the football history) than its hard to justify why Bremner & Mackay won't do the same against Suarez.

Its probably bad selling on my part but I feel that everyone is saying that there is not much between Jairzinho & Rahn and there is not much between Suarez & Di Stefano but there is huge difference of class between Robson & Bremner or Mackay & Makelele. It all feels a bit contrived as Jairzinho in my mind is a much better player. Also its factual that Czibor is facing the weakest defender on the pitch, while his best winger is facing Bossis an immaculate defender. Czibor - Kocsis partnership has lead to Kocsis having one of the best ever goal ratios for international team in football history.

 

[Indnyc]

@Tuppet this seems to be almost done. Congratulations.. Great team.. Good luck going forward

 

[idmanager]

Also I'm not 100% convinced of Puskas as a lone striker.

Rahn was very much like Kalle. You would expect him to join Puskas centrally more often that not.

 

[idmanager]

Does the fact that Czibor - Kocsis had an amazing partnership where they played with each other throughout their careers across Honved, Barcelona & for national team as well and had a fantastic understanding with each other weigh into this comparison ?

It does. But then same could be said about Gento Puskas as well. I am not a fan of labelling Gento as a beat his man and cross, rinse, repeat kind of player. He has much more to him which is what made that left sided partnership of Gento Di Stefano and Puskas so deadly.

I like your team quite a lot as well, especially the front 4 obviously and I might sound a bit biased to Indy as he sports lots of my favorites. But it was his top notch midfield that won my vote. So much balance to it which makes me think Di Stefano can be controlled.

 

[Tuppet]

It does. But then same could be said about Gento Puskas as well. I am not a fan of labelling Gento as a beat his man and cross, rinse, repeat kind of player. He has much more to him which is what made that left sided partnership of Gento Di Stefano and Puskas so deadly.

I like your team quite a lot as well, especially the front 4 obviously and I might sound a bit biased to Indy as he sports lots of my favorites. But it was his top notch midfield that won my vote. So much balance to it which makes me think Di Stefano can be controlled.

That's fair enough. All I would say is that Gento-Puskas was not really a thing, they played together and had great success but that was not a partnership on the level of Czibor - Kocsis. Its sort of hard to explain like say Batigol played with many great attacking midfielders but not all of them were Batistuta-Rui Costa partnerships, if that makes sense.

 

[Physiocrat]

What is wrong with Puskas as lone CF? Is it much different to having guys like Romario or Aguero alone upfront?

I just think it would diminish somewhat his overall build-up play and overall influence. It's a minor criticism in general but compared to Kocsis, he has an almost perfect setup.

Romario was very much an on the shoulder striker so suits being up on his own. Even though he hasn't played much with someone else since Atletico I think Aguero would be better in a front two or at least with a 10.

 

[Physiocrat]

Rahn was very much like Kalle. You would expect him to join Puskas centrally more often that not.

That makes sense, he will be less isolated that way.

 

[Gio]

Here's a quick clip to show whether Bremner can score -


In terms of number Bremner scored 97 goals in his club career which is not far from Robson's 115 goals.

For some reason the narrative seem that Makelele would limit Di Stefano but Bremner & Mackay would not be able to defend against Suarez & Robson. And this is what I think is really weird, as their accomplishments speak for themselves, Both are FWA player of the year, Bremner selected the greatest player of Leeds while Mackay second greatest of Spurs. Bremner had the highest rating in the Ballon D'or votes etc. And they are facing the easier challange of containing Suarez rather than Di Stefano. I actually have no idea how could we possibly lose the midfield battle. If you believe that Makelele would stop the greatest player on the pitch (and probably in the football history) than its hard to justify why Bremner & Mackay won't do the same against Suarez.

Its probably bad selling on my part but I feel that everyone is saying that there is not much between Jairzinho & Rahn and there is not much between Suarez & Di Stefano but there is huge difference of class between Robson & Bremner or Mackay & Makelele. It all feels a bit contrived as Jairzinho in my mind is a much better player. Also its factual that Czibor is facing the weakest defender on the pitch, while his best winger is facing Bossis an immaculate defender. Czibor - Kocsis partnership has lead to Kocsis having one of the best ever goal ratios for international team in football history.

Agree with this regarding the central midfielders. Your partnership there could easily pass for an all-time British and Irish central midfield pairing. Bremner is arguably the only central midfielder from that British and Irish pool that has proven himself properly at club, continental and international level. His domestic credentials are obvious, his influence on Leeds' European runs was huge, and he was the best midfielder on the park in his three games at the 1974 World Cup. His Ballon D'Or position is persuasive given both the strength of the competition in the early-to-mid 1970s and the reduced vote worthiness of the gritty central midfielder role which rarely gets its full dues in such awards. Suarez is different gravy to all four of the other midfielders (if we set aside Di Stefano here), but that partnership holds its own comfortably with Robson and Makelele.

What is wrong with Puskas as lone CF? Is it much different to having guys like Romario or Aguero alone upfront?

I understand he is not the best fit if you want to play long ball tactics, but if you have the right guys besides him who will give him good passes, him getting chances (and goals) will surely happen. In this game, he has Suarez behind him and Gento on the left, who is known for great low crosses and has actual historical evidence for working perfectly with Puskas. The only LW who is a better fit for Puskas is the guy on the other side of the pitch, although I don't know who I would rate higher generally between those two.

Yeah I like Puskas in that role. He has to be both creator and finisher in that central gig - which plays to his strengths.

 

[Ecstatic]

@Tuppet
@Indnyc

Good game.

Couldn't come back before the deadline today.