Owen Hargreaves | 2009/10 Performances

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Exactly, I knew as soon as they said he was pulled out to train with the first team it was bull shit.

You plank... You've never had a clue about what you're talking about and haven't got one here either...

To all those of you such as cw1984 and Sharky7 accusing SAF of 'lying' to you about Hargreaves fitness - he has an unusual injury (Dr Steadman said in 40 odd years of working he'd never seen an athlete's knees in such a mess) and is coming back after a huge lay off. In such cases come back dates are forever being set and put back... Contrary to the junk spouted on here by some after Rooney came back for the Munich game, SAF doesn't risk player's fitness and will ensure Hargreaves comes back when he's ready.

Look at Gary '2 weeks' Neville - he forever had his comeback date put back but has now - whatever you think of his form - come back properly, healthy, and able to play twice a week without risk.

Why not get on with supporting the team and let SAF make the big decisions without accusing him of 'lying' eh?
 
You plank... You've never had a clue about what you're talking about and haven't got one here either...

To all those of you such as cw1984 and Sharky7 accusing SAF of 'lying' to you about Hargreaves fitness - he has an unusual injury (Dr Steadman said in 40 odd years of working he'd never seen an athlete's knees in such a mess) and is coming back after a huge lay off. In such cases come back dates are forever being set and put back... Contrary to the junk spouted on here by some after Rooney came back for the Munich game, SAF doesn't risk player's fitness and will ensure Hargreaves comes back when he's ready.

Look at Gary '2 weeks' Neville - he forever had his comeback date put back but has now - whatever you think of his form - come back properly, healthy, and able to play twice a week without risk.

Why not get on with supporting the team and let SAF make the big decisions without accusing him of 'lying' eh?

Yes i do think Fergie has been bending the truth re Hargreaves. He seems to say one thing then another happens. I can understand why he does it but it's annoying to be told one thing then it appears it isnt the case.

So how about you hop of that soap box and stop accusing me of not supporting the team, which is bollocks.

And less of the silly name calling please, it doesnt make you sound hard.
 
You plank... You've never had a clue about what you're talking about and haven't got one here either...

To all those of you such as cw1984 and Sharky7 accusing SAF of 'lying' to you about Hargreaves fitness - he has an unusual injury (Dr Steadman said in 40 odd years of working he'd never seen an athlete's knees in such a mess) and is coming back after a huge lay off. In such cases come back dates are forever being set and put back... Contrary to the junk spouted on here by some after Rooney came back for the Munich game, SAF doesn't risk player's fitness and will ensure Hargreaves comes back when he's ready.

Look at Gary '2 weeks' Neville - he forever had his comeback date put back but has now - whatever you think of his form - come back properly, healthy, and able to play twice a week without risk.

Why not get on with supporting the team and let SAF make the big decisions without accusing him of 'lying' eh?

feck me :eek:

Clam down Balwin. All I meant when I said "lying" was that SAF gave off the impression that Hargreaves would be on the bench against Chelsea and I didn't understand why. Nothing wrong with that so stop being such a fecking drama queen.
 
Or now could be the perfect time to bring him back as there is less pressure on the games.

Either way it's all pie in the sky. He might make 1 or 2 appearances but he'll never be back to how he was.

How do you know this? are you a doctor, players like RVN and Keano have made recoveries from the worst of all injuries - ruptured cruciate knee ligament and made full recoveries, what makes you such an expert
 
How do you know this? are you a doctor, players like RVN and Keano have made recoveries from the worst of all injuries - ruptured cruciate knee ligament and made full recoveries, what makes you such an expert

I think he's just a bit of a pessimist.

Personally I fully expect Hargreaves to make a full recovery and become the same player he was when we signed him.
 
Why play him with only a few games left when he could easily breakdown again?

Makes far more sense to wait till preseason and then gradually build him up when theres no pressure. Considering he's been injured for so long its worth being cautious.
 
How do you know this? are you a doctor, players like RVN and Keano have made recoveries from the worst of all injuries - ruptured cruciate knee ligament and made full recoveries, what makes you such an expert

To be fair, if he had ruptured his cruciate ligaments he would have been back playing ages ago. Unfortunately, his condition is a lot more difficult to treat.

Still, no harm being optimistic. Fingers crossed he can play a major part in next season for us. It's not looking too hopeful but you never know.
 
How do you know this? are you a doctor, players like RVN and Keano have made recoveries from the worst of all injuries - ruptured cruciate knee ligament and made full recoveries, what makes you such an expert

I think he's just a bit of a pessimist.

Sharky answered your question.

I've been excited about his come back only to be disapointed so many times i just don't hold any hope for him anymore.

I got excited again when he played in the reserves, then followed the disappointment he said he's still having injections to manage the pain. And then he's not been seen since.
 
Sharky answered your question.

I've been excited about his come back only to be disapointed so many times i just don't hold any hope for him anymore.

I got excited again when he played in the reserves, then followed the disappointment he said he's still having injections to manage the pain. And then he's not been seen since.

Some bloke whose old man is an orthopeaedic surgeon posted about that.

He reckons the injections weren't anti-inflammatories or pain-killers but an enzyme used to treat tendinopathies, which would have been all part of his treatment plan and shouldn't be considered evidence of deterioration.
 
To be fair, if he had ruptured his cruciate ligaments he would have been back playing ages ago. Unfortunately, his condition is a lot more difficult to treat.

Still, no harm being optimistic. Fingers crossed he can play a major part in next season for us. It's not looking too hopeful but you never know.

The truth is I don't know how OH is doing and neither does the other bloke unless he's a united physio which I'm pretty sure he's not, in the mean team all we can do is trust SAF and assume that everything's okay until we hear otherwise, it winds me up when some talk so authoritatively about stuff they've absolutely no idea about, its almost like some want him to not recover
 
Sharky answered your question.

I've been excited about his come back only to be disapointed so many times i just don't hold any hope for him anymore.

I got excited again when he played in the reserves, then followed the disappointment he said he's still having injections to manage the pain. And then he's not been seen since.

The trouble is that people are getting senselessly excited and disappointed by clutching at every story that comes out about him - even resorting to calling Fergie a liar. Just leave it alone until he comes back.
 
Some bloke whose old man is an orthopeaedic surgeon posted about that.

He reckons the injections weren't anti-inflammatories or pain-killers but an enzyme used to treat tendinopathies, which would have been all part of his treatment plan and shouldn't be considered evidence of deterioration.

Wow, now that's some great info cheers Pogue. Just did a quick search on this and found the following article:

The active ingredient is Aprotinin, made from cow's lungs... tasty :p

What is Aprotinin?

Aprotinin is a protein that is obtained and purified from cow's lungs. It has been used in medicine for many years as a drug in heart surgery, and is available in Australia under the brand name TRASYLOL. Recent research papers from Europe have studied the role of Aprotinin in treating chronic tendon injuries. (view Translated article from J Clinic Pharm (French) and Aprotinin, corticosteroids and normosaline in the management of patellar tendinopathy in athletes: a prospective randomized study (Capasso et al, Sports Exercise & Injury 1997, 3: 111-115, scanned .pdf - large file) and Preliminary results with peritendinous protease inhibitor injections in the management of Achilles tendinitis (Capasso et al., J Sports Traumatol Rel Res 1993, 15: 37-43, scanned .pdf - large file) )

How are tendon injuries treated?

Tendon injuries (or tendonitis, tendinosis or tendinopathy) have been traditionally treated in three stages according to severity: (1) initially, graded strengthening exercises under the supervision of a physiotherapist; (2) cortisone injections to the outside of the tendon; (3) surgery to remove damaged portions of the tendon and repair any ruptures. The problem with this management plan has been the lack of success of cortisone injections and surgery, in many cases (although they have been successful in others).

How do cortisone injections work?

Cortisone is a powerful anti-inflammatory drug, related to the anti-inflammatory tablets that are often used in sports medicine (like Voltaren, Naprosyn etc.) Inflammation is the means by which tendon injuries become painful and swollen. Cortisone injections are generally very good at making tendon injuries less painful and swollen in the first 1-2 weeks after injection. The two major problems they have is that the effects often quickly wear off and there is a small risk of tendon rupture after the injection. The risk of rupture is particularly relevant for big tendons like the achilles tendon that have no other tendons nearby to help with their job if they snap. Cortisone injections still have a role in the treatment of tendon injuries, but there is a need for alternatives in patients where they fail, or who are unwilling to take the risk of tendon rupture.

How does aprotinin work?

Aprotinin inhibits (stops) some of the enzymes in the body that break down protein, including tendon substance. Therefore, in theory, it might be able to reverse some of the tendon damage in a chronic tendon disor der. A recent European study of patella tendonitis has been published (see below) that showed aprotinin injections had a better success rate than patients who were injected with cortisone or a placebo (in the same study). Aprotinin may also work as an irritant substance (this type of injection is called 'prolotherapy') stimulating the body to produce more healing.

Are there any side effects?

The major side effect (approximately 1 in 500 people on the first injection but 1 in 30 if multiple injections are given within six weeks) is allergic reaction to the drug. Minor allergies give redness around the injection site and itching. It is possible to have an anaphylactic (major allergic reaction) to the drug. It would be expected that the risk of tendon rupture after aprotinin injection would be less than after cortisone injection, but for all patients with a tendon injury there is a small risk of tendon rupture with continued activity. Systemic allergic reaction (rash) to Aprotinin injection

How many injections will I need?

The patients in published studies have one to four injections, spaced a few weeks apart. Multiple injections must trade-off risk of allergy versus chance for further improvement, so single injections are safer. It would be best to avoid sport or train lightly for 5 days after an injection as a general precaution, although there is less concern about training soon after an Aprotinin injection than a cortisone injection. Aprotinin is mixed with local anaesthetic, which will numb the area for about 2 hours.


injuryupdate.com.au - Australia's best information source for elite sports injuries
 
The truth is I don't know how OH is doing and neither does the other bloke unless he's a united physio which I'm pretty sure he's not, in the mean team all we can do is trust SAF and assume that everything's okay until we hear otherwise, it winds me up when some talk so authoritatively about stuff they've absolutely no idea about, its almost like some want him to not recover

I'm with you. Gotta trust Fergie on this one. He'll be back when SAF makes the call.
 
I'm with you. Gotta trust Fergie on this one. He'll be back when SAF makes the call.

I trust SAF on it for sure. Think you were taking my comment out of context earlier when referring to SAF as a fibber. I was only harping on about the fact that he made out Hargreaves would be on the bench vs. Chelsea as it was "what he needed" only for the next day to come and Hargreaves was sat in the stand.
 
I trust SAF on it for sure. Think you were taking my comment out of context earlier when referring to SAF as a fibber. I was only harping on about the fact that he made out Hargreaves would be on the bench vs. Chelsea as it was "what he needed" only for the next day to come and Hargreaves was sat in the stand.

Yeah he said that one of Hargreaves and O'Shea would be playing two weekends ago and in the CL during the Friday PC, and it didn't work out there either. I think these are instances of him thinking aloud in order to give the media something to bite on. Same with his comments about Rooney not playing in the 2nd Bayern game, just a day before the game.
 
Some bloke whose old man is an orthopeaedic surgeon posted about that.

He reckons the injections weren't anti-inflammatories or pain-killers but an enzyme used to treat tendinopathies, which would have been all part of his treatment plan and shouldn't be considered evidence of deterioration.

Well that's more promising i suppose. I guess it's just that we've taken so many knock backs during the whole saga it's hard to get optimistic.

I hope he does recover, obviously. Whoever it was that suggested people didnt want him to recover is just mindless.
 
Well that's more promising i suppose. I guess it's just that we've taken so many knock backs during the whole saga it's hard to get optimistic.

I hope he does recover, obviously. Whoever it was that suggested people didnt want him to recover is just mindless.

if you're gonna quietly quote me, put in context at least

its almost like some want him to not recover

theres quite a difference if you'll be honest enough to admit it?
 
if you're gonna quietly quote me, put in context at least



theres quite a difference if you'll be honest enough to admit it?

feck me settle down. I couldnt remember exactly what was said or by who and couldnt be arsed to go and look for it.

Lots of sand in a lot of vaginas on this board since Sunday.
 
feck me settle down. I couldnt remember exactly what was said or by who and couldnt be arsed to go and look for it.

Lots of sand in a lot of vaginas on this board since Sunday.

Then don't misquote people and perhaps there will be less sand and vaginas! I'm perfectly settled btw
 
Sir Alex Ferguson has hinted he will not blood Owen Hargreaves back into his first-team amid reports he will not play for Manchester United this season.

The Canada-born England international has not played for the Red Devils since September 2008 after undergoing surgery on both knees but has been gradually stepping up his rehabilitation in recent months.

Hargreaves was part of United's squad that lost 2-1 at home to Chelsea recently and it was expected that he would feature between now and the summer.

However, Ferguson has done little to quash reports that Hargreaves will not return until next season by hinting he has more than enough options currently vying for midfield places.

"It is difficult to say when Owen will be back; he is training well and I had him in the squad for the Chelsea game," stated Ferguson.

"His training performances have been fine but I think at the moment midfield is not an issue for us because we have plenty of alternatives."




Makes a change from "Back in 2 weeks"
 
so fergie says he is ready but nowhere near matchfit enough to get a game

why wasnt he in the reserves squad then

on the positive side , he has been training with the first team for about a month and hasnt had any further setbacks
 
Oh come on give the boy a break. He played 25 games for us you know? How many games you expect an 18m signing to play?
 
Hargro in squad :D

Man City away on his debut was one of his best games for United.
 
ha ha, good point. But that was actually the Bayern physios after the leg-break he suffered. I think everyone now has a much better understanding of his injury situation.

Has his leg break anything to do with his nobbly knees though? Different injuries I think.
 
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