Ousmane Dembele | Fee agreed with Dortmund, medical on Monday, Barca go from MSN to LSD

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serghei said:
PSG is prepared to pay close to Neymar's sum for Mbappe. Proving it's not mainly about Neymar. This is bigger than Neymar. Neymar is just the name that has been attached to this inflation. The prices have gone up in 1 year, more than they have gone up in the previous 15 years.
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Which is why Dortmund would be very stupid not to demand a price on the level the market is currently at. They'll have to buy a replacement on said market too, btw.

I haven't read back all of the last pages. Has it been posted that Dembele didn't show up for training yesterday and is temporarily suspended by the club?
 
Synco said:
Which is why Dortmund would be very stupid not to demand a price on the level the market is currently at. They'll have to buy a replacement on said market too, btw.

I haven't read back all of the last pages. Has it been posted that Dembele didn't show up for training yesterday and is temporarily suspended by the club?
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I'm not blaming Dortmund here. I'm talking about the market state. Clubs have every right to take advantage of positive fluctuations in the market. That's not what it is about. What I'm talking about are the consequences that this situation on the market causes, where oil clubs have the license to spend how much their sheik or emir or whatever wants. This is very bad news for all big clubs. All of them. Barca, and Madrid, but United, Chelsea, not even speaking about Bayern, and others too.

This situation is great for medium clubs and amazing for oil clubs. Worrying for Barcelona and Madrid, bad for the likes of Bayern and Juventus, and terrible for EPL clubs that need to be financially stable.
 
serghei said:
This situation is great for medium clubs and amazing for oil clubs. Worrying for Barcelona and Madrid, bad for the likes of Bayern and Juventus, and terrible for EPL clubs.
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Epl clubs are stacked with money and best managers in the world.
 
serghei said:
This situation is great for medium clubs and amazing for oil clubs. Worrying for Barcelona and Madrid, bad for the likes of Bayern and Juventus, and terrible for EPL clubs.
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What's worrying for Barcelona and Madrid and Bayern is PSG becoming as big a draw as them and being able to beat them to their targets, or turn their players heads. It's all about PSG becoming actual competition

Said this in the Mbappé thread and i'll repeat it here: if PSG manage to comply with FFP come March, that will mean that real madrid, or bayern munich, or united, could have also done the same business. It would just be a matter of PSG being run by more capable people.

Now, if PSG are indeed spending more than they can under FFP, they'll get sanctioned and we'll see what happens from there. What would happen with Neymar if PSG get banned from CL?
 
prtk0811 said:
Epl clubs are stacked with money and best managers in the world.
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Money work with relation to the inflation level. Your money is already buying you a Lukaku instead of a Suarez, or a good, but still a Madrid squad player in Morata. Prices have almost doubled. Can your revenue or your financial power double too?
 
giorno said:
What's worrying for Barcelona and Madrid and Bayern is PSG becoming as big a draw as them and being able to beat them to their targets, or turn their players heads. It's all about PSG becoming actual competition

Said this in the Mbappé thread and i'll repeat it here: if PSG manage to comply with FFP come March, that will mean that real madrid, or bayern munich, or united, could have also done the same business. It would just be a matter of PSG being run by more capable people.

Now, if PSG are indeed spending more than they can under FFP, they'll get sanctioned and we'll see what happens from there. What would happen with Neymar if PSG get banned from CL?
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He will spend a season partying in Brazil and play in the CL the next year.
 
giorno said:
What's worrying for Barcelona and Madrid and Bayern is PSG becoming as big a draw as them and being able to beat them to their targets, or turn their players heads. It's all about PSG becoming actual competition

Said this in the Mbappé thread and i'll repeat it here: if PSG manage to comply with FFP come March, that will mean that real madrid, or bayern munich, or united, could have also done the same business. It would just be a matter of PSG being run by more capable people.

Now, if PSG are indeed spending more than they can under FFP, they'll get sanctioned and we'll see what happens from there. What would happen with Neymar if PSG get banned from CL?
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Nothing, he will stay at PSG obviously. I dont think it will happen anyway, they will find a way around FFP or pay a fine
 
JPRouve said:
He will spend a season partying in Brazil and play in the CL the next year.
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Great answer :lol::lol::lol:

Well, we just have t wait and see :wenger:

i'm already printing shirts Neymar-Madrid 2018
 
Just a matter of time before it's done. Will obviously shine at Barcelona because he's a brilliant player, but even more brilliant business from BVB to make a €100m profit on one single player in one year. I'm pretty convinced he'll be the best winger in world football for the next 10 years, ridiculously talented.
 
serghei said:
Not like this they haven't. It has nothing to do with Barca or Neymar. No matter the player, when you more than double the previous transfer record you're talking about something different. When you speak about a club offering about 100m. for a 20 years old player who scored 6 goals last year in Bundesliga, as in the club is trying to underpay Dortmund, it becomes comedic.

Dembele is a great talent, but all this situation only means the transfer market has been turned upside down.
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Well then you don´t get him. Buy somebody else. Simple as. Pay €60M for Perisic instead, who scored 11 goals. Much better value.
 
giorno said:
What's worrying for Barcelona and Madrid and Bayern is PSG becoming as big a draw as them and being able to beat them to their targets, or turn their players heads. It's all about PSG becoming actual competition

Said this in the Mbappé thread and i'll repeat it here: if PSG manage to comply with FFP come March, that will mean that real madrid, or bayern munich, or united, could have also done the same business. It would just be a matter of PSG being run by more capable people.

Now, if PSG are indeed spending more than they can under FFP, they'll get sanctioned and we'll see what happens from there. What would happen with Neymar if PSG get banned from CL?
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Not as big draw as them. Bigger than them. City can be bigger than them too. Oil teams will rule the market. The other teams will fight for what's left. And let's not even exclude the possibility that other oil teams will be born out of this. Maybe a new sheik will buy some other team.

PSG will probably comply with FFP because FFP doesn't work. If UEFA doesn't punish fake promotional contracts between the clubs and the state that funds the clubs, FFP is nothing. Doesn't even worth the paper it's printed on.

PSG didn't even question the reasons for why they lost 6-1 to Barca. A team like theirs shouldn't have lost that match in that fashion. Their solution to that big defeat? Buy big. They don't solve fundamental problems in their team. They just buy and buy until the problem disappears on its own.
 
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I think that all those oil companies and billionaires might become tired of their Hobby sooner or later and will stop to invest large sums.
No way that such amounts can be financed just by us fans buying Shirts, going to the Stadium, paying for TV etc.
I expect the market Prices for Players to significantly drop in a few years time.

This is why I would take 130 for Dembele, 120 for Coutinho, 150 for Mbappe etc. right now if I were responsible at Dortmund, Liverpool or Monaco.

Might be completely wrong though and we will see double the Prices for such Players in 2 years time.
 
MannyB said:
I don't know why this always gets brought up. If Dortmund made 25% sell on agreement with Rennes then that's on Dortmund to fulfill and shouldn't be used to bolster the player's valuation. It was the same with Pogba, Juventus wanted up wards of £100m because they cut stupid 25% deal with Mino Raiola to get him in.

You can argue over talent level, age and the remaining contract length, but it's not Barca to deliver an inflated deal because Dortmund thought they were ripping of Rennes.
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It means the initial transfer was higher than the 15m Dortmund paid last year. You simply can't say Rennes only got 15m and Dortmund now are crazy for wanting 150m. It's just not true if the deal last summer was structured in a way that gives Rennes a lot more money.

AmanNits04 said:
So a 60 Million profit is nothing for a player who has played only one season in a team before selling him :wenger::wenger:. Market has really gone insane.
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Dortmund doesn't want to make a profit on player sales in general, they want to have the best possible team to compete in football. They won't get a player as good as Dembele this late in the transfer window even if they spend more than those 60 million. What's the big benefit for Dortmund if they end up with a worse team without actually having made money?

Of course the market has gone insane, but it has gone insane for the next tier of players as well. If Dortmund sell Dembele for 100m to Barca, no club will give Dortmund a sensible price for a replacement in the next 3 weeks.
 
serghei said:
Money work with relation to the inflation level. Your money is already buying you a Lukaku instead of a Suarez, or a good, but still a Madrid squad player in Morata. Prices have almost doubled. Can your revenue or your financial power double too?
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Poor example, 75 m would have bought us suarez, lewandowski too if they were with everton, While also potential money could be raised by selling the likes of iilenacho's and lukaku's for 25 - 40 m too at a younf age within the league with the buying power of smaller epl clubs, while madrid and barcelona's wont get the likes of ronaldo's and modric's and bale's for 80 m 40 m and 86 m anymore , because of the financial power of Epl clubs without buy out clauses without having the player to be a contract rebel.

As barcelona and madrid will find out liverpool United's chelsea's arsenal's tottenham's can stand firm even for 100 m euros and reject it in an instant, It all depends on the strenght of the selling club, if the likes of mbappe's is worth 160 m - 180 m then even coutinho's hazard's de gea's of this league will only be sold for those prices or even more which La liga clubs have lived off in the past, while also epl clubs have the advantage of then going for players in smaller la liga clubs like atletico and others to get players of them for cheaper because of poor financial health of those clubs who do breed technical talents and potentials.

We have already seen a shift in madrid's policy by going for unproved players from la liga who may or may not live up t the expectations like james rodriguez unlike in the past when they prefered galactico's from england and italy.
 
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Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
I think that all those oil companies and billionaires might become tired of their Hobby sooner or later and will stop to invest large sums.
No way that such amounts can be financed just by us fans buying Shirts, going to the Stadium, paying for TV etc.
I expect the market Prices for Players to significantly drop in a few years time.

This is why I would take 130 for Dembele, 120 for Coutinho, 150 for Mbappe etc. right now if I were responsible at Dortmund, Liverpool or Monaco.

Might be completely wrong though and we will see double the Prices for such Players in 2 years time.
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It's not just a 'hobby' for Qatar and PSG, it's politics, one they probably won't back away from in near future.
 
Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
I think that all those oil companies and billionaires might become tired of their Hobby sooner or later and will stop to invest large sums.
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By "All those oil companies and billionaires" we are basically talking 2 clubs, PSG and City. Roman has been reasonable for years now, and all other investors are trying to conduct their business with the intent of a profitable outcome.
So I think, there's a little too much hyperventilation going around here.
The only clubs affected are those who have been used to scooping up the very best and most sought after players at their leisure. So yeah, if I were a Real or Barca supporter I'd be miffed, otherwise it doesn't matter at all.
 
prtk0811 said:
Poor example, 75 m would have bought us suarez, lewandowski too if they were with everton, While also potential money could be raised by selling the likes of iilenacho's and lukaku's for 25 - 40 m too within the league with the buying power of smaller epl clubs, while madrid and barcelona's wont get the likes of ronaldo's and modric's and bale's for 80 m 40 m and 86 m anymore , because of the financial power of Epl clubs without buy out clauses without having the player to be a contract rebel.

As barcelona and madrid will find out liverpool can stand firm even for 100 m euros and reject it in an instant, It all depends on the strenght of the selling club, if the likes of mbappe's is worth 160 m - 180 m then even coutinho's hazard's de gea's of this league will only be sold for those prices which La liga clubs have lived off in the past, while also epl clubs have the advantage of then going for players in smaller la liga clubs like atletico and others to get players of them for cheaper because of poor financial health of those clubs who do breed technical talents and potentials.

We have already seen a shift in madrid's policy by going for unproved players from la liga who may or may not live up t the expectations unlike in the past when they prefered galactico's from england and italy.
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Liverpool will stand firm even for 100m. euros and reject it in an instant. OK. They will keep their players. Liverpool keeping Coutinho is not a huge problem for Barcelona. There are maybe 5-6 certified world class players in the whole EPL. Barca and Madrid have more world class players in their first 11 than EPL in the entire league. I'm not being arrogant, but this is the situation right now. In the past, it was different.

Barca and Madrid have a pretty strong hold on Spanish talents, wouldn't you say? Barca has La Masia, which is a great resource. Madrid has some young players that are extremely good. They have promoted from within too, and quality players, not scrubs. Morata is one of their former Madrid Castilla players.

EPL clubs will have to go shopping for talented players in Spain, in Germany, and get them before the likes of Bayern, Dortmund, Barca, Madrid, Atletico get them. Good luck getting those players.

You'll never know the Spanish and German markets as well as the big clubs of those countries will. Which is why you make transfers from EPL mostly, or from lower ranked leagues, where the big clubs are of lower power.

But the talent in EPL is of lower quality than the talent in Spain, the talent in Germany, or even the talent in Italy, Portugal, or France.
 
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2ndTouch said:
By "All those oil companies and billionaires" we are basically talking 2 clubs, PSG and City. Roman has been reasonable for years now, and all other investors are trying to conduct their business with the intent of a profitable outcome.
So I think, there's a little too much hyperventilation going around here.
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Yeah the drama created and figures thrown around have people lose sight of what actually went through and was paid. Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal, Bayern, Real, Atletico, Juventus, Roma, Napoli, Dortmund, Leipzig, Monaco have either one or no transfer above 30M pounds. It´s been mainly City, Milan, PSG (although only one transfer), Chelsea and United that have made a few bigger signings.
 
serghei said:
They love football and are sitting on a huge pocket of gas and/or oil. Bummer.
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True. They're football crazy, have shit loads of money AND also want to use these projects as a showcase of their wealth and their countries. They're not going away anytime soon.
 
2ndTouch said:
By "All those oil companies and billionaires" we are basically talking 2 clubs, PSG and City. Roman has been reasonable for years now, and all other investors are trying to conduct their business with the intent of a profitable outcome.
So I think, there's a little too much hyperventilation going around here.
The only clubs affected are those who have been used to scooping up the very best and most sought after players at their leisure. So yeah, if I were a Real or Barca supporter I'd be miffed, otherwise it doesn't matter at all.
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Let`s see. I know the example of Frank Stronach in Austria who invested a lot in a Team, built an academy etc. but got tired of it later.
Also Mateschitz had times when he thought about quitting his Investment in Football and concentrate on F1, Hockey etc.

But yeah, maybe we will see a 1 bn Player in a few years. Can go either direction.

Right now I am just struggling to think that Players like Dembele, Mbappe or Coutinho are worth that Kind of Money or that Neymar justifies his fee based solely on his abilities as Footballer.
 
2ndTouch said:
By "All those oil companies and billionaires" we are basically talking 2 clubs, PSG and City. Roman has been reasonable for years now, and all other investors are trying to conduct their business with the intent of a profitable outcome.
So I think, there's a little too much hyperventilation going around here.
The only clubs affected are those who have been used to scooping up the very best and most sought after players at their leisure. So yeah, if I were a Real or Barca supporter I'd be miffed, otherwise it doesn't matter at all.
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I agree. Too much drama.

If you look at the most expensive acquisitions of psg in euros since 2011 (Qatar)

1. Neymar 222 m
2. Cavani 64
3. Di maria 63
4. Pastore 44
5. Thiago silva 42
Lucas moura 40
Draxler 36
Krychoviak 34
Marquinhos 31
Guedes 30
Jese 25
Kurzawa 22
Zlatan 20

Less than 15: aurier, verratti, matuidi, motta, maxwell, benarfa, menez, nene, Alex, trapp and the newly recruited left-back

Psg academy: kimpembe, rabiot, nkunku, coman, sakho, callegari, bahebeck, areola...

Psg can't buy a high number of elite players per season: the current squad is already good
 
Surely it can't get to a point where 2-3 oil rich clubs run football, UEFA will step in before then. The big clubs have too much power to be fighting over the scraps left by PSG and City it will be fixed before long......I hope.
 
This thread has really shown us who has actually watched Dembele and who hasn't.
 
Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
Let`s see. I know the example of Frank Stronach in Austria who invested a lot in a Team, built an academy etc. but got tired of it later.
Also Mateschitz had times when he thought about quitting his Investment in Football and concentrate on F1, Hockey etc.
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Russian clubs stopped their crazy acquisitions (Samuel etoo Diarra & co).

China is implementing new measures To slow down. Berlusconi and morratti stopped investing money at the end of their rule.

Everything has an end. If psg wins the champions league, Qatar will stop To overpay imo. An obsession for them.
 
Dembele is a perfect deal for all the parties, borussia, the player, Barcelona and rennes that will earn around 30 millions.
 
NYAS said:
This thread has really shown us who has actually watched Dembele and who hasn't.
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I have watched him a few times last season and thought he looked very good. Not enough to fully judge him but 130 Mio sounds ridiculous for a Player who costed 10 % of this a year earlier.
 
Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
I have watched him a few times last season and thought he looked very good. Not enough to fully judge him but 130 Mio sounds ridiculous for a Player who costed 10 % of this a year earlier.
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Dortmund once paid 300k for Kagawa...
 
Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
I have watched him a few times last season and thought he looked very good. Not enough to fully judge him but 130 Mio sounds ridiculous for a Player who costed 10 % of this a year earlier.
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Aside from no one doing business like that:
Dortmund supposedly paid €15m upfront, €15m in addons and 25% of the future fee will go to Rennes.

If you calculate Barca paying €130m for him then Dortmund will have paid something between around €50m to €60m for him. 10 times that would be €500m to €600m. Simple math.
 
Who even calculates transfer fee in terms of percentages. That's not how it works.
 
Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
I have watched him a few times last season and thought he looked very good. Not enough to fully judge him but 130 Mio sounds ridiculous for a Player who costed 10 % of this a year earlier.
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This isn't the stock market. What he cost in the past has literally zero meaning. Current market circumstances, contract length, talent of the player, needs of the buyer and seller, and this being late in the transfer window all matter.

I remember saying a few months ago before any of this happened that £100m would be a bargain for him if he were to leave this summer and got laughed at. The transfer market is going in a very clear direction, it doesn't take much to understand the inflation and reasons behind it, and which kinds of players will be affected by it. That's why Jose said as early as last summer when people were still crying floods of tears over Pogba's fee that it would look cheap the next summer (now) and that the record would be broken. Guess who was right?

I'm not saying this means that someone's going to be bought for 300m next summer. But people need to understand the talent that Ousmane has and how special he is as a player. It's not like football churns out these talents with his potential every month. The people who aren't complaining and who are not surprised about the fee are the ones who have watched him the most. It's not a coincidence.
 
Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
I have watched him a few times last season and thought he looked very good. Not enough to fully judge him but 130 Mio sounds ridiculous for a Player who costed 10 % of this a year earlier.
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Btw, can you sell us Rashford, for let's say 2m? I mean he cost you basically zilch, even under a generous assumption of 100k upbringing costs, that would be 20x!!!!!! the money you've invested into the player. Now ship him over already, you greedy fecks!
 
do.ob said:
Aside from no one doing business like that:
Dortmund supposedly paid €15m upfront, €15m in addons and 25% of the future fee will go to Rennes.

If you calculate Barca paying €130m for him then Dortmund will have paid something between around €50m to €60m for him. 10 times that would be €500m to €600m. Simple math.
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Absolutely. Everybody in France knew hé was a special talent. In financial terms good deal for everybody.

Big loss for borussia that would have preferred him to stay
 
I still believe borussia could sell him for 150 millions (including add ons bonuses...).
 
Ecstatic said:
Absolutely. Everybody in France knew hé was a special talent. In financial terms good deal for everybody.

Big loss for borussia that would have preferred him to stay
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Hardly a big loss, more like an enormous cash windfall - Barcelona were offered similar deal that Dortmund ended up with before his move from Rennes but Bartomeu turned it down. Could've had him for 15 million, now?

That's a big loss from a piss poor board
 
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