Our window isn’t the great success many claim

pogbasformerbarber said:
I expected these knee jerk reaction posts after a bad first game, but I am sort of shocked at the sheer panic that seems to have gripped our fans after a (admittedly underserved) win. People need to calm the F down and worry about team trends…not a shaky first win.
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You draw trends from whatever data points you can find.
 
bosnian_red said:
We signed 3 players and our biggest signing who plays in our weakest position is injured. Of course you won't notice it that much yet. You noticed Onana, who made a difference right away. Mount might be a slow burner, might not work out, but Eriksen is a sub now rather than a starter so it's better depth at least. Pointless to complain about it when one of our 2 outfield signings is injured to start the season.
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More of an observation than a complaint really, but the thing about Hojlund is he was supposed to be the young back up coming in to learn his craft under an experienced head. Now all of a sudden he IS the figurehead of the team who is supposed to fire us to the title challenge we all want. You don’t have to think badly of any signing to realise it’s not what we needed. It’s not the vision that was sold, and is underwhelming as a result.
 
It’s far too early to judge Onana and Rasmus, but both should be good signings for us if they live up to their reputation/potential. The latter will obviously need more time.

we’ve all seen more than enough of Mason Mount already though, surely, and he always seemed like a baffling signing at anything other than squad depth, as right now it looks like he’s our main midfield signing that’s supposed to basically replace Eriksen and fix our issues from last season and he just is not a player that can do that, even at his best. A truly bizarre signing.
 
When the best players come up we're not in the conversation. This is because Glazers.
 
glazed said:
When the best players come up we're not in the conversation. This is because Glazers.
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That’s such a strange statement given we’ve broken the British transfer record multiple times in the last decade and constantly pay massive transfer fees for players.
 
Massive Spanner said:
That’s such a strange statement given we’ve broken the British transfer record multiple times in the last decade and constantly pay massive transfer fees for players.
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It's not strange. We broke the transfer record on bad buys like Maguire and Pogba. Ask yourself why. It's not just random.
 
Plant0x84 said:
More of an observation than a complaint really, but the thing about Hojlund is he was supposed to be the young back up coming in to learn his craft under an experienced head. Now all of a sudden he IS the figurehead of the team who is supposed to fire us to the title challenge we all want. You don’t have to think badly of any signing to realise it’s not what we needed. It’s not the vision that was sold, and is underwhelming as a result.
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Hojlund was never supposed to be that. He was always going to come in and just be part of the squad to start before shortly after becoming the main guy. That's what he will be.

Nobody is firing us to a title challenge this year. Nobody should be expecting a title challenge this year. Nothing about our window or potential window or squad ever said we should see a title challenge this year, nor was it sold. I don't know why people thought that. This year has always been about cementing top 4 again, building on last season performance wise while hoping we get similar results in the end in league and cups.

We spent almost 250m last summer. It was always said that the Antony signing came out of the following years budget, and that this season it would be smaller. Our sale is in who knows what state. Anyone having expectations beyond cementing top 4 and simply developing the system is setting themselves up for failure for no reason.
 
Lee565 said:
Considering how poor Antony has been I won't hold my breath on hojlund being great as I have big reservations about ten hag's ability with recruitment, people can claim that martinez was a success but you would hope so considering he already manged him at ajax and there has been a trend of leaning towards Dutch, Dutch league and ajax players and still think it's why he signed mount based mostly on how well he did in the inferior Dutch league
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Good thing Højlund has nothing to do with EtH or the Eredivisie.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I've wiped that season from my mind (along with basically every season since SAF retired) Who were these "great signings"?
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He has the year wrong but I presume he means 2019. We got Maguire, AWB, Dan James. Darmian, Herrera, Lukaku, Valencia and others left.
 
Who on earth is claiming our window was a success? I’ve not heard anyone say that bar the usual mid journos bleating out the “they’ve strengthened key areas” platitude.
 
Chelsea agree deals for Olise and Lavia on the same day, having just signed Caicedo. I know what's going on at Chelsea looks a bit mad, but we're stuck failing to offload players in order to bring Amrabat in. If (and it's a big if) Chelsea gel, they'll be up near the top this season.
 
Our season is already unavailing before it's barely begun. I think us and Liverpool will struggle to keep up with the rest if we don't make some smart transfer market moves before the end of the month.
 
Plant0x84 said:
This is true. Our biggest issues last season are still our biggest issues this season.
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In certain areas I would agree. It is far too early to judge these transfers. I mean people were raving about Casemeiro and Eriksen, now lots of tak they are finished. Will be a good coupel of years til we really know, but my initial thoughts go back to the beginning of the window and may unrealistic but hopes at the start of the summer, there was a lot of talk of:

10players out minimum and maybe raising £150m - We have moved on 8 for £37m...mainly smaller sales, end of contracts or young players. Things can still happen but really its only Elanga and Fred are successful sales.

There was talk of needing a GK, RB, CB, 2 x CM, 2 x CF....seven signings, that was actually the minimum and so far we have made 3. Again time for more to happen, but 3 signings would be way way way short and time will tell, but how good are they when casting the talk back 3months?

GK - Onana, I like the personality and of course a keeper better with his feet is a big improvment to us and DeGeas form was so poor the end of last season, change had to come. But none of the keepers we were linked with gave me huge confidence as shot stoppers, will be interesting to see how he does. A decent signing I think he will be, not dissapointed put it in terms of a signing anyway

RB - When Dalot signed a new contract, I didnt want us to sign one as I am a fan of Bissaka and didnt want him to go. Personally wanted DAlot to go and an attacking full back signed but I am not actually concerned we wont sign one.

CB - We obviously needed a better squad upgrade to challenge Varane. All the talk was of Kim-Man Jae.....and e have signed JOhnny Evans, I think that says it all. I actually think failing to sign a cb in the remainder of the window is just as big a msistake that will cost us at not signing anotehr cm, lindelof is too much of a drop down and both starting cb's will miss games probably this season

CM - Intrigued to see how Mount fits in an dis utilised. A few work colleagues said he was an excellent signing and will thriveas a number 8. Never saw it myself and alst night was everythig worried me about him there defensively...but its one game and Ten Hag must have a plan. I genuinely have high hops for Mainoo this season and I liek Hannibal....but just looking at some of these big cm transfers within or own league and some players on the continent.....personally nearly all of them fitted us better than how I see Mount, who is in my mind a numbe r10 or left sided player of which we already have several. Not seen one person earluer in the summer naming Mount as a signing........and already all the talk is how we need a cm, which says a lot.

CF - Again go back "we need a top experienced striker and a yougn one" all the talk was Kane or Omishen and a younger one. We have only signed a younger one. I havent seen Hoijlund but I am just getting a gut feelign he will be a huge signing. I dont want to open up the debate and if he comes back, we dont know what player is even coming back....but Greenwood negates the need for a second striker

So far as a transfer window, its literally 4/10 for me. We have moved on a few been here far too long, but there are just as many we havent, Maguire Henderson and Martial possibly still being here is particualy irking.

We have also made half as many signings as we need to as the minmum, a potentially good keeper....still no back up, Johnny Evans who wasnt good enough when he left a decade ago and is no better than what we have, just a body and a solid pro, a cm that may turn out to be a great signing but personally I dont see it working and a striker we are yet to see....but have a good feeling for.

We finished 3rd last year and won a cup, I feel we dont do that as things stand. If we can add a good cb, cm, Greenwood comes back and we move a fe wmore out....its a 6.5 maybe 7/10. But let face it, on paper excluding Man City maybe as they have lost a big player and maybe SPurs (though I thought there defence looks far better and the midfield choices)....our signings are less of a progression than all the other big clubs from last season.

My gut feeing is we sign Amrabat and VDB maybe leaves, Greenwood is probably staying (and as awful and unmoral as it is, partly because of personel) and only VDB and maybe one other leaves....for me that would be a 6/10...content with Amrabat and Onana, excited by Hoijlund, dissapointed by exits...people rave abot last summer window, here we are 12minths wrong, Eriksen looks finished, people already worryign about Casemeiro declining, Malacia after a decent start peopel are on the fence with and not many happy with Antony (personally rate him).

I like Ten Hag speakig and that he has a vision and control towards a club identity, we havent had that for a while....but two windows down, I am not sure his recruitment has been that much better than previous managers so far, time will tell but I feel Matinez aside who is the best signing post Ferguson, in terms of long term deals, the others dont really stand out for me so far considering the costs
 
We’re still very light weight in midfield and centre forward. We needed two strikers signed this summer and we currently have one - an injured 20 year old gamble and we needed a quality upgrade of McFred (Sabitzer and Fred already gone) and we have Mount who is nothing like that style of player.

Goalkeeper is progress but we are still two important signings light (on the basis that Martial continues to be a waste of space and McTominay isn’t going to suddenly improve significantly overnight, and assuming he’s still here by he end of the window.

We also need this Maguire mess sorted asap as it’s inevitable Varane will be injured soon so we need 4 top class centre backs at the club.
 
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It’s obviously impossible to judge our transfer window before it’s over. Even then you probably need a full season before making judgement on signings.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Struck me watching that ‘ludicrous display’ last night that after the substitutes with the exception of Onana we were playing with last seasons team.
I have been thinking about it since and we haven’t actually improved the squad so far.
Onana will modernise our play, and our style will change and hopefully be more entertaining - but is he a better keeper than DDG?
Mount is decent but he’s a cog in the machine not a stand out player.
We’ll have to wait and see how Hojlund affects the team, but all in all we’ve spent hundreds of millions with very little improvement to show for it.
In terms of sales the only sale of note is Fred. Players like Hendo looked all but done before the window opened, and we’ve managed to stuff it up. All the others have been fringe and reserve players.
I’ve seen plenty of comments saying this has been a good window but I’m not so sure. I don’t see a great deal of progression, hopefully this can change before September, but it’s not looking hopeful at the moment.
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I can’t take what you say seriously when you question “Is Onana actually better than De Gea?”
 
ObscureBaguette said:
Chelsea agree deals for Olise and Lavia on the same day, having just signed Caicedo. I know what's going on at Chelsea looks a bit mad, but we're stuck failing to offload players in order to bring Amrabat in. If (and it's a big if) Chelsea gel, they'll be up near the top this season.
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I'm not actually convinced we're in for Amrabat at all. It's got the same smell as the Kim Min-jae links. He was an obvious player who would have improved us and he was available. But we didn't go for it. I see a similar thing with Amrabat. The club will say that he doesn't fit the profile or whatever. I don't think he's coming.

Overall, it's an average window.

Onana - should be a great signing. I think he'll do the job we want him to do.

Mount - huge question marks about the plan for him. I don't get it.

Rasmus - we don't even know when he's playing. We also don't really know what to expect with him due to age, current fitness, how he'll adapt to the league, how he'll adapt to his teammates, and so on.

Time will tell. Right now, it's all very underwhelming.
 
Superunknown said:
I'm not actually convinced we're in for Amrabat at all. It's got the same smell as the Kim Min-jae links. He was an obvious player who would have improved us and he was available. But we didn't go for it. I see a similar thing with Amrabat. The club will say that he doesn't fit the profile or whatever. I don't think he's coming.

Overall, it's an average window.

Onana - should be a great signing. I think he'll do the job we want him to do.

Mount - huge question marks about the plan for him. I don't get it.

Rasmus - we don't even know when he's playing. We also don't really know what to expect with him due to age, current fitness, how he'll adapt to the league, how he'll adapt to his teammates, and so on.

Time will tell. Right now, it's all very underwhelming.
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I’m kind of thinking the same thing also. We were only going for him if McTominay went, so was a big if and nothing as concrete as reported. And again we probably were tentatively interested in Kim Min Jae but could never afford him regardless. Maybe he was a potential buy if the sale had gone through early enough and the budget was much bigger.

Don’t think we have the money now for anyone else and I doubt we will generate it in the time left, so personally I don’t think we have done nearly enough to improve on last season. Mount I was happy with but only because I thought we were 100% signing a replacement for Fred, in hindsight Mount should have been a luxury signing and not deemed a necessity by the manager. Think we’ll finish a couple of places lower this year and are in for a fair few more hammerings like last season - not so much we’ll do worse this season points wise, I just think that other clubs will do significantly better.
 
Window not closed so maybe will be proven wrong tomorrow, one observation I'm ambivalent about :
Chelsea, Arsenal paid 100m€ or more for one player. Liverpool was ready to. City didn't yet but took Gvardiol for close to that amount and might also do for Paqueta.

Comparatively United was almost frugal, deciding to sign 3 players for amounts not too unreasonable in that window. In reality there could be much to debate to temper this statement : Hojlund is not cheap for his age. Onana was paid top money for moving a keeper.

Two additional players that were linked credibly, Amrabat and Pavard, were supposedly available at an interesting value (to be confirmed, though Pavard might be off).

Kim was not inexpensive but supposed good value for the price -unclear MU was willing to pay-.

Is United trying to recruit (slightly) smarter ? Or is it that it is starting to fall behind in its ability to compete on raw financial power ?

I'd say the window started well but has hit a low note for the moment... We'll see where we'll be in two weeks.
 
Too soon to judge the players and therefore the success of the window but we definitely need to improve at selling and we need at least one more player in.
 
Nope, it’s a poor window. Mount and Höjlund, that’s not impressive.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I can’t take what you say seriously when you question “Is Onana actually better than De Gea?”
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From a purely GK POV? If he’s taking on players and losing the ball or getting chipped all the time then that’s going to be costly.
I think De Gea is a better shot stopper, but sure Onana is a more modern progressive player. Products of different times, maybe not better - just different?
 
bosnian_red said:
Nothing about our window or potential window or squad ever said we should see a title challenge this year, nor was it sold.
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But if we’re kicking on from 3rd and a trophy challenging for the top spot is a natural progression. I’d also argue it’s easier (relatively) than winning the CL. If we had Kane, Caicedo, Kim etc we would have been well placed to build on last season.
As we are, I’m not convinced we will score more goals or even achieve more points than last season. If we don’t that’s a backwards step.
 
Its improved on last season but not by much. Mount is the bizarre signing that doesn't make much sense to me, I am biased though as not a fan of his at Chelsea/England.

We need another transfer by end of window in midfield. We also have too many players unsold.
 
Well, the window is not shut until Sept 1st, so there could be multiple developments before then.
 
bosnian_red said:
We signed 3 players and our biggest signing who plays in our weakest position is injured. Of course you won't notice it that much yet. You noticed Onana, who made a difference right away. Mount might be a slow burner, might not work out, but Eriksen is a sub now rather than a starter so it's better depth at least. Pointless to complain about it when one of our 2 outfield signings is injured to start the season.
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But the player out injured is a 9 goal man from Atlanta. I know the price implies it but he’s hardly a world class CF at this stage. If we had a world class CF he’d be a great signing for the future. As it is, he is a Hail Mary punt we are all hoping works immediately.

Eriksen is also still in our best 11. It’s Mount or Antony (if we decide to play Mount RW) who are (or at least should be) the reserves.
 
ObscureBaguette said:
Chelsea agree deals for Olise and Lavia on the same day, having just signed Caicedo. I know what's going on at Chelsea looks a bit mad, but we're stuck failing to offload players in order to bring Amrabat in. If (and it's a big if) Chelsea gel, they'll be up near the top this season.
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Can someone explain FFP and how it works with regards to Chelsea? I’m slightly baffled how they can buy two entire teams in the space of a season and we can’t even afford Kane.
 
With a limited budget we should have focused on rebuilding the midfield properly. Onana at that price will prove great business so that was a no brainier but we were never going to sort all our issues in this window after only a year with EtH at the helm.

Klopp & Arteta we’re given years to do what people are expecting EtH to do in 12 months & the fanbase aren’t helping, the constant ‘we need any striker’ narrative when we can’t actually create consistent chances for one anyway. I think Hojlund will do well but good lord is there a ridiculous amount of pressure on him.

We need to stop being scattergun & focus on a department of the team. Goalkeeper now looks sorted but Martinez & Shaw aside the defence is questionable [Varane can’t stay fit], Casemiro-Bruno-Mount is not a good midfield, Rashford at LW is the only sure-ish thing in attack.

I don’t see what we’re trying to build.
 
If the window closed today and there's no more signings then it's a 6/10, however, with 2 weeks left a lot can happen, and I think there will be 2 more coming in.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
With a limited budget we should have focused on rebuilding the midfield properly. Onana at that price will prove great business so that was a no brainier but we were never going to sort all our issues in this window after only a year with EtH at the helm.

Klopp & Arteta we’re given years to do what people are expecting EtH to do in 12 months & the fanbase aren’t helping, the constant ‘we need any striker’ narrative when we can’t actually create consistent chances for one anyway. I think Hojlund will do well but good lord is there a ridiculous amount of pressure on him.

We need to stop being scattergun & focus on a department of the team. Goalkeeper now looks sorted but Martinez & Shaw aside the defence is questionable [Varane can’t stay fit], Casemiro-Bruno-Mount is not a good midfield, Rashford at LW is the only sure-ish thing in attack.

I don’t see what we’re trying to build.
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I do see what we are building but it will take time as the president been set by overpaying for poor players who we can't shift is a huge issue. Plain and simple is we need the Qatari money to solve it quickly. Maguire, Henderson should have been ousted this window but we are still not willing/able to take the pain financially to move on from these kind of issues.
 
glasgow 21 said:
I do see what we are building but it will take time as the president been set by overpaying for poor players who we can't shift is a huge issue. Plain and simple is we need the Qatari money to solve it quickly. Maguire, Henderson should have been ousted this window but we are still not willing/able to take the pain financially to move on from these kind of issues.
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I agree.

We need the takeover so we can cut bait on bad deals.
 
Have to agree. We needed at least 7 in (2 new 'keepers, a new CB, 2 new CM's and 2 new forwards) and needed a good 13 or so out (De Gea, Henderson, Maguire, Bailly, Jones, Tunazebe, Telles, Williams, Fred, McTominay, VDB, Martial, Elanga). So far 7 of those are still here, and only 3 signed.
Onana will be a success but Henderson is a virus, and Heaton no longer good enough to be back up. Midfield is awful still, desperate for more energy and defensive cover in there. Mount I was never convinced by at Chelsea and not going to change my opinion on just because he's signed for United; he's bang average.
Hojlund may be a brilliant striker but really no way of knowing yet. Desperate for another forward as Rashford isn't a 9, Martial will not stay fit under any circumstances, and less said about Greenwood returning to the team the better. If, at a minimum, a reliable back up forward and someone like Onana from Everton is signed for midfield before the window closes, then I'll feel a lot more positive. But at the moment, it feels very Meh
 
How was this window expected to turn out ?. My expectations were low and they haven't risen. As long as the Glazers hands are on United we expect nothing and we get less. The wheels above ETH and his team are clogged and inept. Anything other than Glazers gone is just window dressing and Elastoplasts
 
Revan said:
Most of Caf was delighted by those 3 signings to be fair. But to be fair, most signings in Caf gets applauded at the beginning, even Darmian was universally praised (I was one of the culprits, so shoot me).

In hindsight, it was an awful awful transfer window. Maguire has been one of the worst transfers of all time, AWB was overpriced by 30m and James was shockingly bad albeit we got our money back.
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It really is a vicious cycle, this thread from early 2020 paints a good picture of it:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how-long-until-oles-signings-also-join-the-deadwood-list.451638/


I actually think this thread is showing growth in the caf, in that we are allowed to be more skeptical about new signings without just following the party line that the news guys are the best thing since sliced bread. I think we've all been burned too many times at this point. The above thread was already 6 months into the season so Maguire had already managed to work his magic and get more people to stop believing in him. However, when we first signed Maguire and AWB for 130 million you were shouted down for having concerns. I remember similar thing happening with Pogba when a small group first started having doubts.

It's definitely right to be concerned about spending a chunk of our budget on Mount and hopefully it works out, but based on recent history...well the less said the better. Hojlund is an unknown quantity but I am cautiously excited about him. I'm happy we've moved on from De Gea and I'm hopeful in Onana. On the selling side of things we need to get rid of Maguire and McTominay at least to bring in a decent chunk of change. Overall a very mixed bag of a window.
 
The window isn't closed yet, but I like that we finally seem to (i) have a sensible transfer strategy and (ii) are executing on it.

Within the FFP constraints, seems to me our transfer strategy has multiple ambitions:

  • Have 2 players providing realistic competition for each position
    • Malacia (as Telles clearly wasn't strong enough); Eriksen (as we relied on Bruno for creativity from midfield)
  • Fix the squad balance by having more naturally left footed players
    • Martinez (as all 5 CB's were right footed - Maguire, Lindeloff, Tuanzebe, Bailly and Jones); Anthony (as all 6 wide players were right footed Rashford, Garnacho, Sancho, Elanga, Pellistri, Diallo)
  • Fix the distribution from the back
    • Onana
  • Get a CF:
    • Hojlund
  • Get players with the right mentality/no arseholes
    • Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen in; Ronaldo, Henderson out
  • Exit peripheral players
    • Bishop, Kovar, Henderson, Telles, Jones, Tuanzebe, Bailly, VdB, Elanga, Williams
  • Exit youngsters (some with a buy-back) who needed game time:
    • Laird, Iqbal, Galbraith, Bernard, Savage
  • Bring in players who are comfortable playing more than one position:
    • Eriksen, Mount
  • Find Home Grown talent where possible:
    • Mount (given the number of HG we're exiting - Bishop, Henderson, Williams, Laird, Jones, Tuanzebe, Galbraith, Bernard, Savage, Elanga)
Of course the current squad, even with all the changes made so far, isn't good enough to win the Premiership. To me that's not the point - it was always going to take more than 2 windows to fix all the squad issues EtH inherited. The important thing is he's building a solid base for the squad. Next year with hopefully new owners will see us splash the cash on one or two world class players so we can really compete for top honours.
 
Onana is a great signing and already an immediate upgrade.

Hojlund is still out injured but he is young with lots of potential.

I think we can all agree Mount is a system player the manager wants, we will have to wait longer and see how he would fit into our new system as it usually takes time.

Overall I think we still lack a strong backup for Casemiro and high volume passing midfielder. (Onana and Amrabat)

And ideally of course we could also strengthen depth of our defense too (Pavard or Todibo).

I think our failure to sell Mctominay and Maguire really stop us from getting these players.

So, my rating for this summer transfer: 7/10
 
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