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Our Rivals' squads next year - Manchester City (2016/2017)
- Thread starter Wumminator
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City fans insisting on everyone calling their manager "a visionary"
No one is insisting anything, but it just seems pretty stupid to deny that Guardiola is one.
I couldn't care less what oppo fans call Mourinho. How he performs (and behaves) is all I care. Each to their own though.
I wonder how Guardiola will deal the intensity of the English league, as well as the competition. This will not be a league where the team is not punished when resting multiple key players in key moments, and as we could see with Liverpool, the pressing game tires out the players within a few weeks.
He's a great manager though, and I dont understand why people are downplaying his achievements. The league has broken better managers than Pep, and it's created heroes out of much less talented managers.
He's a great manager though, and I dont understand why people are downplaying his achievements. The league has broken better managers than Pep, and it's created heroes out of much less talented managers.
Pep always had good defenders who are excellent with the ball and pass it forward with precision like - Pique, Boateng at City/Bayern. I don't see any current city defender good with passing or bringing the ball out of the back.
Also he does not have the midfielders to play tiki-taka or possession based football. Their best midfielders Yaya/Fernandinho are good at driving with the ball and not pass it around. IMO, Aguero is a stiker who thrives on counter attacking system or fast release the ball with less touch system. So Pep has to solve that dilemma too.
I am sure he has a plan for this group of players and it will be interesting to see how he goes about it with these set of players who don't suit his previous playing style/methods.
Also he does not have the midfielders to play tiki-taka or possession based football. Their best midfielders Yaya/Fernandinho are good at driving with the ball and not pass it around. IMO, Aguero is a stiker who thrives on counter attacking system or fast release the ball with less touch system. So Pep has to solve that dilemma too.
I am sure he has a plan for this group of players and it will be interesting to see how he goes about it with these set of players who don't suit his previous playing style/methods.
Nothing to do with my 'red-tinted specs'. Your forum is full of people who have already written Ibrahimovich off before he has kicked a ball in the Premier League saying his status has been hyped up artificially by winning titles and scoring goals in average leagues and he will soon get found out in the Prem. Yet they are blindly proclaiming Guardiola as the next Messiah when he has absolutely NO experience in the Premier League, yet will somehow walk it just because he won titles in two-team leagues?
All I'm saying is you should hold off from all the visionary crap till he has actually achieved something in England....where his first REAL test and challenge start. If Ancellotti wins the Bundesliga this season, that will just prove my point. If Guardiola wins the title or CL with City, I will be the first to admit that you have the real deal. Until then, you lot just need to calm down and just wait and see what happens before getting carried away with all the eulogising.
You could also label any manager as a visionary. Van Gaal was a 'visionary'. So are Ranieri, Bilic, Pochettino and countless other managers.
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Mourinho was also a visionary when he first came to the Premier League. If that makes you feel better.
He changed the way the Premier League teams played the game.
Don't really agree with that. Aguero is always a big threat when City camp outside the opponent's box and Silva is pulling the strings. His pace means he's good at counter-attacking but he has also thrived in possession setups.
You're completely missing the point. Guardiola could get City relegated this season, it would not change the fact he is widely regarded by many as a visionary. What he does or does not achieve in England has feck all to do with it. This basically boils down to your erroneous interpretation of a visionary as synonymous with a "Messiah" or however you want to term it. It is possible to believe Guardiola is overrated, as you seemingly do, and still accept him as a visionary. Bielsa hasn't won anything to my knowledge yet he is undeniably a visionary, and no, you cannot just label any manager a visionary.
Kompany and Otamendi are both more than capable passers and willing to carry the ball themselves out of defence. Yaya Toure played under Guardiola and is excellent at retaining possession, I'm not sure how you've come to conclude he cannot play possession based football. Whether he can still play it effectively given his age and current decline is a different question though
As for Aguero he's performed excellently at City so far under Mancini and Pellegrini, neither of who employed counter attacking football or quick incisive attacking football. Mancini especially favoured a cautious, possession based approach. I'm not saying these players will thrive under Guardiola or that they will suit his system, but your view of how City previously have played and the qualities of the players you mention is wrong imo.We're going to find out if he can walk on water this year.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm understanding your meaning to be a manager who is creative, inspired, imaginative, shrewd and able to plan in a forward thinking way? You could say that van Gaal's philosophy was creative, inspired etc. but it achieved absolutely nothing. Glenn Hoddle was a visionary. Harry Redknapp was a visionary. Ranieri is a visionary. Who really cares whether Guardiola is a 'visionary' as you love that term so much. I don't really think he was employed on that basis and if you did end up 5th, that visionary tag would count for diddly-squat.
I'm just really baffled as to why you are so hung up on this fact when as you mentioned you could end up relegated with him? You're really happy that you have a manager who is a visionary regardless of whether he will win anything or not?? Shouldn't you be more concerned as to whether your manager will adapt to the Premier League and be successful?
It's one thing to be a good or great coach. It's another thing to be a visionary.
I think of visionary a coach who has changed football.
Has Pep changed football with the way he works or with the way he trained his teams?
I think of visionary a coach who has changed football.
Has Pep changed football with the way he works or with the way he trained his teams?
Actually, I'd say that being a good, great or abysmal manager is so 2015. It's all about whether you're a visionary or not. I think Paul Ince is.
You decided highlight in a post a comment that Guardiola was a visionary because you disagreed with that assessment. I argued the opposite because I feel it's fairly obvious that Guardiola is a visionary and that most people involved in football would concur. That has nothing to do with my views on why he was appointed at City, how good a manager he is or how he will fare at City. And Harry Redknapp is not and never has been a visionary ffs
My early prediction for Player of the Year is De Bruyne. Feck me, what I'd give to have him back. 
BobbyManc vs RedPed's got to be the saddest miscommunication I've seen in a while.
It is pretty pathetic ain't it. My bad!
You did say that Man City could be relegated with Pep as manager.It is pretty pathetic ain't it. My bad!
Kompany and Otamendi are both more than capable passers and willing to carry the ball themselves out of defence. Yaya Toure played under Guardiola and is excellent at retaining possession, I'm not sure how you've come to conclude he cannot play possession based football. Whether he can still play it effectively given his age and current decline is a different question though
IMO tackling, one to one defending and Pace are Otamendi's major assets and surely passing is not one of his best attributes. Also i don't count on Kompany to remain fit for major part of the season. So i am not sold on how they would fit in Pep's plan. Otamendi is at best as good as Smalling in passing and i don't consider Smalling a good ball playing defender.
Pellegrini did not employ a possession based approach and as far as i can remember, most of Aguero's goals came when City transitioned the ball quickly to attacking wide players and then a pass to him in or around the box.
Um no I didn't. I was quoting Bobbymanc.
Man City averaged 55% possession compared to Uniteds 56% last season. They were for the most part a possession side.
Here are all of his goals last season. Most were just fantastic pieces of individual ability and the most were against a deep defence. It kinda highlights how disorganised Man City are as a team in attack. They rely solely on pieces of individual skill to score. This is why I worry about them under Pep.
Not nice when people completely misquote you and the meaning of your post.
Some people forget how much a world class manager can have an impact on certain players. Sure some of the City players look average on paper based on their last seasons, but Pep can get something out of some of them. He will buy some players, find some youngsters, instill confidence, make them tactically astute and a cohesive team in attack.
If it clicks, we are in trouble.
If it clicks, we are in trouble.
Guardiola likes his sides to play a very similar style to what we saw under LvG, although Guardiola does want his players to think for themselves. The big question for me is will it work in the EPL? I would have thought Guardiola would have been wanting to be pragmatic and adapt his style slightly in order to be able to cope with the demands of the EPL. But, judging by Guardiola's signings so far I see little evidence of this. I therefore suspect the pragmatic Conte at Chelsea will have a bigger impact next season than Guardiola at City.
Whatever, it's going to be fascinating to see how things work out. If there is one manager that can make it work then it is Guardiola.
Whatever, it's going to be fascinating to see how things work out. If there is one manager that can make it work then it is Guardiola.
I'm pretty sure we gave LVG a glowing reference when he left the club. It's much better to part on good terms than to call the man being booted out a failure. We all know it's BS.
I don't know how to debate a serious discussion with replies like this. I'd suggest you just look at the response from Bayern staff and players and compare with the response from united staff and players and then all being logical sound in your mind you will make an obvious conclusion.
Added Sane.
If Kompany isn't fit there's only Otamendi and Mangala in central defence (If they play 4 at the back).
And some old fullbacks: Clichy (31), Kolarov (30), Sagna (33), Zabaleta (31).
Their defence could be their undoing - they're rather stocked in midfield/attack.
If Kompany isn't fit there's only Otamendi and Mangala in central defence (If they play 4 at the back).
And some old fullbacks: Clichy (31), Kolarov (30), Sagna (33), Zabaleta (31).
Their defence could be their undoing - they're rather stocked in midfield/attack.
To be fair, if they get Stones, they at least have more shite players to choose from in CB.
I'd imagine their side will look like this most weeks
---------------Hart---------------
Sagna--Stones--Otamendi--Clichy
---Fernandinho---Toure---
Silva-------De Bruyne------Nolito
--------------Aguero--------------
Not bad and I'd think even better if they can get a fully fit Kompany and Gundoghen in the side but those are big ifs
---------------Hart---------------
Sagna--Stones--Otamendi--Clichy
---Fernandinho---Toure---
Silva-------De Bruyne------Nolito
--------------Aguero--------------
Not bad and I'd think even better if they can get a fully fit Kompany and Gundoghen in the side but those are big ifs
Have you seen their CM options?
Going from Xavi, Iniesta, Thiago, Busquets, Kroos and Alonso to that shite is going to be disastrous for Pep.
None of the CMs besides Gundogan who is injury prone suit his philosophy.
So I'm not sure you could say they stocked. I am surprised Pep hasn't signed more CMs.
Maybe he is going to put Silva there.
Wasn't there talk he was going to drop Fernandinho or Fernando to CB too? Ala Mascherano. So I guess that would be another CB option.
So the City squad is taking place and looking rather strong Id say, not a standout squad but very good none-the less, lets line the top teams up.
City:
Chelsea I have to admit I know the least about, rumours of Costa leaving could allow Batsuayi come to the fore which I think he could do well and I think Hazard will play No.10 also that back line, I believe Conte will utilise Cuadrado and rely less on Terry and more on the legs of Zouma. Matic is also rumoured to be off in which case shifting Fabregas back Hazar in the middle and then Oscar on the left? perhaps Kennedy?
Arsenal will likely add Lacazette which would be a very strong addition and I think eventually Mahrez will move there making them very strong, Gabriel will fill in for Mert unlesss they get someone in which I doubt.
Moving on to City, That back line is a disaster waiting to happen, Stones whilst solid could be a liability and on the wings they will get torn a new one by any of the other teams, their attack is brilliant however and people will really need to look out for Sane, cant wait to see him against Shaw. As for the midfield its lacking a physical presence and they will need one of the fernandos to step up their game and accept a holding role.
Looking at it over all, I think there are weaknesses in all teams, none are 100% solid, Rooney is our big weakness, but we have the biggest star players and the best individual inspiration in Pogba, Martial and Ibra.
God this season will be epic.
City:
Nolito-Aguero-Sane
Silva-Gundogan-KDB
Clichy-Kompany-Stones-Sagna
Hart
United:Silva-Gundogan-KDB
Clichy-Kompany-Stones-Sagna
Hart
Martial-Ibrahimovic-Mhikitaryan
Pogba-Rooney
Carrick
Shaw-Smalling-Bailly-Darmian
DDG
Chelsea:Pogba-Rooney
Carrick
Shaw-Smalling-Bailly-Darmian
DDG
Costa
Hazard-Fabregas-Willian
Kante-Matic
Azpulicueta-Cahill-Zouma-Caudrado
Courtois
Arsenal:Hazard-Fabregas-Willian
Kante-Matic
Azpulicueta-Cahill-Zouma-Caudrado
Courtois
Alexis-Giroud-Ramsey
Ozil-Xhaka
Coquelin
Monreal-Koscielny-Gabriel-Bellerin
Cech
Looking at each squad I wouldn't say there is one that really stands out for me as a clear strongest. I would say with the other squad options we look very very strong and with the addition of a RB and potential CB we could be favourites its dependant on weather Carrick can hold and weather Schniederlin raises his game. Ozil-Xhaka
Coquelin
Monreal-Koscielny-Gabriel-Bellerin
Cech
Chelsea I have to admit I know the least about, rumours of Costa leaving could allow Batsuayi come to the fore which I think he could do well and I think Hazard will play No.10 also that back line, I believe Conte will utilise Cuadrado and rely less on Terry and more on the legs of Zouma. Matic is also rumoured to be off in which case shifting Fabregas back Hazar in the middle and then Oscar on the left? perhaps Kennedy?
Arsenal will likely add Lacazette which would be a very strong addition and I think eventually Mahrez will move there making them very strong, Gabriel will fill in for Mert unlesss they get someone in which I doubt.
Moving on to City, That back line is a disaster waiting to happen, Stones whilst solid could be a liability and on the wings they will get torn a new one by any of the other teams, their attack is brilliant however and people will really need to look out for Sane, cant wait to see him against Shaw. As for the midfield its lacking a physical presence and they will need one of the fernandos to step up their game and accept a holding role.
Looking at it over all, I think there are weaknesses in all teams, none are 100% solid, Rooney is our big weakness, but we have the biggest star players and the best individual inspiration in Pogba, Martial and Ibra.
God this season will be epic.
Nice summary @MartialsBeard
I'd agree that City probably look the strongest on paper. Will be an incredible season, I just hope we as United fans can fully enjoy it this season!
I'd agree that City probably look the strongest on paper. Will be an incredible season, I just hope we as United fans can fully enjoy it this season!
Their squads taking shape, but still remains unbalanced. So much quality in attack now with Aguero, Iheanacho, De Bruyne, Silva, Nolito, Sane and Sterling and that's discounting Nasri, Yaya, Bony and Navas, but their central midfield options are subpar. Particularly from a defensive standpoint.
It's essentially Fernando, Fernandinho, Gundogan and Delph. No doubting Gundogan's quality, but his injuries are an obvious concern. Likewise Fernandinho is very good, just better in a box-to-box capacity. Delph is the same, but a far inferior player to Fernandinho and Fernando's mediocre.
Not quite understanding how Pep will set up the team, as their defence is of course still very susceptible and they are yet to do any business on that front. Pep's renowned for his strange tactics and he has used three at the back in pre-season. I heard murmurs of Pep wanting to deploy Fernandinho as a wingback/fullback and he also played Kolarov as a left-sides centre back.
Could this line-up be feasible;
Could see Stones as the central CB, that steps out of defence due to his ability on he ball, with license to maruad forward on occasion, as well as covering the areas on the flanks vacated by Fern and Clichy.
That would allow Gundogan to be deployed deep as well as De Bruyne as more of an #8 but the pair both compensated for with defensive cover. Quite excited to see how City fare this season, from pre-season it looks like they're already starting to adapt to Peps tactics.
It's essentially Fernando, Fernandinho, Gundogan and Delph. No doubting Gundogan's quality, but his injuries are an obvious concern. Likewise Fernandinho is very good, just better in a box-to-box capacity. Delph is the same, but a far inferior player to Fernandinho and Fernando's mediocre.
Not quite understanding how Pep will set up the team, as their defence is of course still very susceptible and they are yet to do any business on that front. Pep's renowned for his strange tactics and he has used three at the back in pre-season. I heard murmurs of Pep wanting to deploy Fernandinho as a wingback/fullback and he also played Kolarov as a left-sides centre back.
Could this line-up be feasible;
Hart
Otamendi - Stones - Kompany
Fernandinho - De Bruyne - Gundogan - Clichy
Silva - Nolito
Aguero
It's a really strange line-up, but then again it's complete guesswork predicting a Pep side even if it seems obvious to the untrained eye. And this isn't even obvious.Otamendi - Stones - Kompany
Fernandinho - De Bruyne - Gundogan - Clichy
Silva - Nolito
Aguero
Could see Stones as the central CB, that steps out of defence due to his ability on he ball, with license to maruad forward on occasion, as well as covering the areas on the flanks vacated by Fern and Clichy.
That would allow Gundogan to be deployed deep as well as De Bruyne as more of an #8 but the pair both compensated for with defensive cover. Quite excited to see how City fare this season, from pre-season it looks like they're already starting to adapt to Peps tactics.
There is 0 chance City will line up with Silva, De Bruyne and Gundogan in center mid. Will be fernandinho next to gundogan and probably Silva. De Bruyne wide, or if he is midfield then silva gets benched. Its still suicidal to play anyway because thats 4 players who will do nothing defensively which you cant do in the prem. So while Sane is an upgrade on Sterling, so was Nolito, so its more just adding depth on the wings. Their starting 11 is still massively lacking in defence and will be lacking in midfield with Gundogans injuries. With Guardiolas injury record too I don't think they will be at their best as Aguero, silva, kompany and others have always been very prone to being out for a while. They will improve of course, but still have gaping holes defensively. Scoring goals was never the problem under Pellegrini.
That Chelsea squad looks very very strong and with Kanté added that midfield its looking really good..
City and us will be there and Arsenal is stronger with that deep cm solved.
That leaves Tottenham and Leicester who lets be honest gained alot from everyone having a bad season last season. Who knows how they will do but it will be a miracle if they do as well this season..
But common knowledge is that Liverpool like every year are going to have their year this year.
This season is going to be epic..
Is Pep really that kind of manager? Hardly ever strook me as a manager that gets the best out of anyone but players that actually are the best in their position. He's essentially been managing the best of what Spain and Germany have to offer in his past two jobs.
Sterling is fecked tbh
I don't see him starting many games with KDB, Silvs, Nolito and Sane there
I don't see him starting many games with KDB, Silvs, Nolito and Sane there
He managed to take players like Busquets and Pedro who didn't look like they'd do all that much at Barca and find important roles for them in the team in which they thrived.
Admittedly he struggled at others times to accommodate players like Ibrahimovic and Villa, but I do think Guardiola's got a talent for identifying someone with ability that's not being maximised, and finding an ideal role for them. Whether he'll be able to do so at City without the same knowledge of the players he worked alongside at Barca (due to his time at Barca B) is another matter.