Any top manager would have won his titles at Bayern
And if you want to rate managers on their record vs each other I guess that means Mourinho is light years ahead of wenger who can't beat him
Our Rivals' squads next year - Manchester City (2016/2017)
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And if you want to rate managers on their record vs each other I guess that means Mourinho is light years ahead of wenger who can't beat him
ridiculous assesment.
very different types of managers and men obviously.
When there was all this excitement who we wanted after van Gaal, I was certain I wanted Mourinho. I would not have minded Pep.
Pep's style is a very much a passing game. Jose's is about power. Efficient. My only concern is he does not sacrifice flair to win.
I am convinced we have the best manager in world football in charge and he finally has the club to match his ego. The clashes between the two will be fun to watch. As for last season, obviously a lot more to what all have speculated about. Some day we will know. The fact remains the board hired him after the explanations.
Arsene hasnt been sacked a day in his life, what does sacking have to do with how Good you are? Carlo got sacked many times. The only manager to ever beat Pep to a title was Jose was it not, interesting that wasnt mentioned when you decided to use the "won the league every season except one " bit. No one knows for sure what will happen next season but its not as clear cut as both of you are making it out to be.
You're not going to get a fair assessment of Mourinho from an Arsenal fan, it's like asking a United fan for a fair assessment of Gerrard.
I'm not a huge fan of Wenger. He's done what Mourinho cannot do.. build a dynasty. Mourinho has done what he cannot do in recent years.. win major honours. Who would I side with? Meh, probably Mourinho. It's a weird dilemma.. they are total opposites and both have positive qualities that the other does not.
By the way, I have noticed that a lot of your posts contain petty attacks like this one without really attempting to lead to any discussion. I'd recommend attempting to improve the quality of your posts in order to make way for better discussion. You seem to be very defensive always.
I'm glad you are convinced, mate. I am not. That's the beauty of football - differing opinions.
Truthfully, I think Mourinho truly wants this job and has for a while. I think he wants to prove that he is as good a manager as Alex Ferguson. Ultimately, though, I think the same old problems will arise with him and this job will break him in as dramatic a fashion as all the others.
I was going to mention it but figured it was irrelevant as Guardiola had beaten Mourinho to it the season before. A little bit of tit for tat, really?
Arséne was a fantastic manager. He built teams which, in my opinion, are better than anything ever created by Mourinho. Like any genius in this sport, though, time comes to an end and the game moves on. Arséne is reaching the end of his cycle. Judging him solely on what he is doing now would be daft and I think we both know that.
If you think that is an attack on you then I think you are the one being very defensive
Also if your so interested in improving the level of discussion then you might consider not making up stuff like "Mourinho has been sacked more times than he's beaten Guardiola."
I remember him beating Guardiola with Inter 3-1, in the Spanish cup final and at the Nou Camp 2-1. Don't think he's been sacked 4 times though
The stat I read must have been taking into account only domestic games, then.
You're doing it again, by the way. Your posts just come across as very confrontational.. like you are here to hammer home an aura of superiority rather than actually discuss football.
Arsene built a dynasty?
Arsene Wenger?
From France?
Arsene Wenger?
From France?
Yes just like how David Moyes built a dynasty at Everton ... David Moyes... from France
I can't even be bothered to argue on why Arséne made us a huge club, honestly. All it takes is a little bit of pragmatism and a reasonable understanding of how football works and it will be clear. When Wenger took over us, Liverpool were a bigger club and attraction. That's not the case today. If he had taken over Liverpool, we'd be around where they are. Also, they'd have won more titles than United.
Honestly mate, I can't fathom how anyone could disagree with what I've said. But to each their own. Unless you've taken the word 'dynasty' a little bit too literally.. in which case, I understand.
No two managers are the same. He always wanted this job. But if he does not control his 'darker' side, he will fail.
If he absorbs the history of the club, I think he will succeed, because the club has always been about the supporters, no matter who the owners have been.
I can't even be bothered to argue on why Arséne made us a huge club, honestly. All it takes is a little bit of pragmatism and a reasonable understanding of how football works and it will be clear. When Wenger took over us, Liverpool were a bigger club and attraction. That's not the case today. If he had taken over Liverpool, we'd be around where they are. Also, they'd have won more titles than United.
Honestly mate, I can't fathom how anyone could disagree with what I've said. But to each their own. Unless you've taken the word 'dynasty' a little bit too literally.. in which case, I understand.
Wenger will always be a giant of a man in Arsenal. But I honestly think age has caught up with him.
It will be very difficult to replace him.
Longevity and dynasty are two completly different things. A dynasty infers domination which doesn't apply to Wenger or Arsenal.I can't even be bothered to argue on why Arséne made us a huge club, honestly. All it takes is a little bit of pragmatism and a reasonable understanding of how football works and it will be clear. When Wenger took over us, Liverpool were a bigger club and attraction. That's not the case today. If he had taken over Liverpool, we'd be around where they are. Also, they'd have won more titles than United.
Honestly mate, I can't fathom how anyone could disagree with what I've said. But to each their own. Unless you've taken the word 'dynasty' a little bit too literally.. in which case, I understand.
If anyone is being threatened here I am the one. Why you acting like the king???
Guardiola has a lot to do next year at City and I don't think he is as good as many think he is. He took Bayern backwards. I think he'll improve City because it'll be hard not to, but his true colors are going to come out and it's going to look a whole lot more like Bayern in Europe than Bayern in the German league.
How Guardiola has attained godlike status just through managing two givens is a bit bizarre. We'll see how good he really is over the next three years.
I don't think we will be in much trouble.
HG and trained at city:
Hart
Denayer
Diaz
Iheanacho (although I don't think he's actually eligible until next season)
HG trained in England:
Clichy
Delph
Sterling
Stones (if we sign him)
And this will only improve in the future with the academy players starting to break through.
His status not only comes from his success, it comes from all the players and coaches he's worked with. The number of players and well respected coaches/trainers who have called him a genius can't be dismissed just because he's managed two of the best clubs in the world. He's a visionary and only a fool could think otherwise.
On the other hand there is no question that city is his biggest test to date.
I'd say a fair few of the players & hierarchy at Bayern would disagree with this statement. Everybody knows the league was a given in Germany so his remit would have been at least 1 CL title. He just about scraped into the SF for his last 2 seasons & then proceeded to be soundly beaten. Instead of extending his contract & trying to finish the job he whored himself out to the Petro Dollar.
Just thought Id mirror this sentiment, also you don't see many Bayern fans crying over his exit do you. Ancellotti will most likely rip up what he did and start over with his style and philosophy and I expect they will be better for it.
At least 1 CL title? You talk as if the CL title is so easy to win. United only won it twice in all Sir Alex's years here. Appointing managers on the requirement that they win the CL is just silly. As for contract extension, I think both Pep and Bayern were ready to move on. Pep doesn't really like sticking to one job for too long as he finds it difficult to keep inspiring the same set of players year after year. Nothing wrong with wanting to keep things fresh with a new challenge.
Finds it hard? You talk as if there are numerous examples of this. It was one job!
This can't be used an excuse for Pep becoming a club whore for all of his career
Well he said the same thing when he left Barcelona as well. That he was finding it difficult to keep some of the players motivated for games against the cannon-fodder of La Liga. He apparently rang Sir Alex to ask him his advice, what should he do when he can no longer keep inspiring his players and Sir Alex told him to 'change the players'. But Pep wasn't willing to do that so he left himself instead.
Pep is a very intense, very demanding coach. He's also made no secret of the fact he doesn't intend to stay in management until he's old like others. He wants to have a short successful career and then relax and devote himself to his family. Now maybe the allure of management will prove too strong in the end, but I don't blame him for wanting to sample different clubs in different leagues if he thinks he won't be sticking around for long anyway.
This job will break as all the others?? Name all of them please.
Porto: He left by choice and as European
Chelsea : Despite bringing huge success, Roman wanted some pizzazz in his team and fell out with Mourinho when he started intruding into the management side of things. Chelsea were still doing quite alright back then.
Inter: The Nerazzuri love Jose. Brought them the Champions League and left by choice, with his you players literally in tears (Materazzi anyone?)
Real Madrid : Broke the monopoly of Barca but his team did not dominate La Liga as Perez wanted. There's a LOT of overhead intrusion there at Madrid and when Jose rightly dropped Iker things went bad in the dressing room and in the management. The Spanish worship their heroes and the bad press really hurt Jose. He was never really given full reign. He was removed thereafter.
Chelsea : Brought them the league in season 1. Then a very complicated set of things occurred where player power overpowered management. Enough has come out of that dressing room where players themselves have come out blaming themselves. Jose never got the reinforcements he needed in the summer and the team stagnated. Lets not forget Ms Carneiro. An ugly fiasco in Jose's legacy. Of course Jose is to blame. But so are some of those players.
He is now at United. He is given free reign. Non-intrusive upper management. The team is free tonne moulded by him in any way he chooses. The tremendous amount of money at his disposal with realistic expectations given to him, Jose will finally come into his own. At United, even he will think twice before going about like a spoilt child like he did at Chelsea at times. He's wanted this job a long time.
Let's also remember, Jose is a very proud man. He will want to heal the wounds of his mistakes at Chelsea. This job is unlike anything he's had before. All the factors that impeded him in the past are not there at Old Trafford.
Apologies for veering away from the topic of the thread. I also believe that Pep will have to drastically rethink a lot of his set ideals. Pressing is not as easy as it is in the Bundesliga or La Liga. Fitness is tested to the limit. Every game is a potential disaster. He doesn't automatically start in the best team in the league who have superior players compared to the competition. Every transfer is fought over. This the PL and it will be a real challenge for him.
My goodness, can we get back on topic? I'm here to read about people's opinions on the City squad, which, like others, I find is getting old and their best players not doing so well, be it with injury (Kompany, Silva, Aguero at times), form (Hart), or just plain can't-be-bothered (Toure). Who could they sign? Can they sign that many and have it all work?
Take your manager wanking elsewhere, thank you.
Take your manager wanking elsewhere, thank you.
He won the league in season 2, came 3rd in season 1.
Seeing a few comments that people don't really rate our squad. Just out of interest, what's Uniteds current best 11 in some of your eyes?
A visionary?? WTF! There are a lot of managers who are respected by a lot of players and coaches/trainers!
You don't think Pep is a visionary?
Then why was the chairman of Bayern so glowing about Pep's influence there and how he's improved their whole setup?
Shit keeper, a billion pounds worth of centre backs that can't defend, Toure disinterested, Silva old, and Aguero a crock.
Still, probably in with a chance of the title tbh.
Still, probably in with a chance of the title tbh.
Depends on your interpretation of a visionary? I think what you are implying is that he is a visionary manager. But a visionary he ain't...unless he has gifts that we're not aware of. But then there are also a few visionary managers out there.
I really think you should be going easy with the superlatives until he has actually shown his true worth in the Premier League.
Certainly a lot of his teams characteristics are the go to for teams across Europe nowadays.
Like who?
Bayern, Barca, Real Madrid, Dortmund, Tottenham, Even Atletico take from his team.
Come on, take off the red-tinted specs for a moment. Go and read what other managers and players say about Guardiola, and it is clear that many see him as a 'visionary' in some way. Even Ibrahimovic who despises him accepted he is a "fantastic" coach. Not that you have to be a fantastic coach to be a visionary, Bielsa for example is a visionary yet he's not one of the world's best managers. You should consider the actual meaning of what a visionary is, you can label Guardiola a visionary without having to think he is an excellent manager.
City fans insisting on everyone calling their manager "a visionary"
I wont be quick to write off City under Pep. I'm actually excited to see what he can do and I consider them to be serious contenders.