Our Rivals' squads next year - Manchester City (2016/2017)

Bob Loblaw said:
Tell that to Tata Martino. You're hugely underrating Guardiola's influence on that team.
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Saying it is not hard isn't the same as saying everyone can do it.

He is a good coach but Mourinho, Klopp, Simeone have all achieved things I doubt Pep would have achieved if he was handed the same players. So calling him the best in the world is a bit premature in my opinion.

In my eyes there is only 1 true genius who deserves to be called the best manager and that is SAF.

Pep is a good coach, but Mourinho, Klopp, Simeone, Ancelotti, are all great coaches aswell and terms of being truely tested and taken out of their comfort zone Pep Guardiola is probably the least tested one. So again very interesting to see him now at City and see what he can achieve in the EPL with a much lesser team than he is used to work with.
 
sammyvine said:
Does people on here actually watch football?
How does Aguero rely on pace? He has never been a speed demon like Owen or Henry.
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Yes I watch football. Almost every WC, EC and Olympics since 1970. Almost every CL game including the top teams. Every CL final since 1970. (At that time they called it something else) Almost every United game on cable since 2000. Probably 10+ of City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Real Madrid and Barcelona every season the last 7-8 years. A couple of games per season with clubs like Everton, Spurs, Milan, Juventus, Roma, Valencia, PSG and Atletico.

I often watch Uniteds games two times, because of my age I don't sleep so good at nights. So to answer your question. Yes I watch football. How about you?

Kuhn Augero rely on pace. His accleration the first 10-15 yards and great balance is what sets him apart from many other 15-20 goals/season strikers. Without it he's stil very good but not the world class player he's now. His career regarding injuries reminds me about Fernando Torres, after his third or fourth muscle injury he started to decline.

Last season I saw glimpses of decline. Not much but enough to suspect that he will struggle if his muscle injurys continue. Its difficult to judge exactly how much he lost in pace but their is a difference from a couple of seasons ago.

But City have more players then Augero.
 
The red panther said:
Saying it is not hard isn't the same as saying everyone can do it.

He is a good coach but Mourinho, Klopp, Simeone have all achieved things I doubt Pep would have achieved if he was handed the same players. So calling him the best in the world is a bit premature in my opinion.

In my eyes there is only 1 true genius who deserves to be called the best manager and that is SAF.

Pep is a good coach, but Mourinho, Klopp, Simeone, Ancelotti, are all great coaches aswell and terms of being truely tested and taken out of their comfort zone Pep Guardiola is probably the least tested one. So again very interesting to see him now at City and see what he can achieve in the EPL with a much lesser team than he is used to work with.
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You're being far too critical of Guardiola's achievements but I don't see much point discussing it further, we'll never agree on that.

Agree with your final paragraph though, there's no doubt it's a huge test for Pep at City.
 
The red panther said:
Saying it is not hard isn't the same as saying everyone can do it.

He is a good coach but Mourinho, Klopp, Simeone have all achieved things I doubt Pep would have achieved if he was handed the same players. So calling him the best in the world is a bit premature in my opinion.

In my eyes there is only 1 true genius who deserves to be called the best manager and that is SAF.

Pep is a good coach, but Mourinho, Klopp, Simeone, Ancelotti, are all great coaches aswell and terms of being truely tested and taken out of their comfort zone Pep Guardiola is probably the least tested one. So again very interesting to see him now at City and see what he can achieve in the EPL with a much lesser team than he is used to work with.
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Mourinho has always had good squads even at Porto or Inter.
Also he has most of the time left clubs badly. He also has major question marks.
 
The pressure and expectation at Bayern/Barca is immense so I don't agree that Pep hasn't been tested. When first place is mandatory and second is failure you're on a hiding to nothing.

See Moyes and the countless other managers who flopped at one of the bigger clubs. I wonder if Moyesy had walked the league in his first season would people be saying it wasn't a proper test? Fergie's team etc... Probably.
 
BobbyManc said:
Exactly. I hate it when people use this kind of argument in football. Every achievement has to be considered in its context. Who else could have done what Simeone has done with Atletico? It's hard to think anyone else could have, he's the perfect man for the job. That does not automatically mean he is the world's best manager. Same with Ranieri at Leicester. Mourinho at Inter. Klopp at Dortmund etc. It also emphasises trophies above everything else when it's an injustice to just boil years of a manager's work down to what they put in the trophy cabinet.
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We are talking about what sets apart truly great managers from the rest.

At Barca, Pep was given some of the worlds greatest players in what was then a 2 team league. At Bayern, he was at the only club in the league to have any real financial power. He was also able to cherry pick the best players from their nearest rivals. At City he has an unlimited transfer budget & has also been given Aguero & KDB.

When Jose took over at Porto & Inter he never had any huge advantage over the rest of the teams in the league. What he did at these 2 clubs is nothing short of incredible put into context with Peps achievements. Jose & SAF are out on there own as far as managers of recent times go. I'm sure there's no managers out there atm who are capable of emulating these 2.

It's unlikely we are going to be able to judge how good a manager Pep is after his time at City ends. It's highly likely he will outspend every other PL team during his time in charge. This already adding to the most expensive squad in the PL.
 
namco said:
At Barca, Pep was given some of the worlds greatest players in what was then a 2 team league. At Bayern, he was at the only club in the league to have any real financial power. He was also able to cherry pick the best players from their nearest rivals. At City he has an unlimited transfer budget & has also been given Aguero & KDB.
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Why do some many need to rewrite history and make up lies?

Season before Pep took over this was the league table;

Real Madrid - 85 points
Villarreal - 77
Barcelona - 67
At Madrid - 64

Season before;

Real - 76
Barca - 76
Sevilla - 71
Valencia - 66
namco said:
When Jose took over at Porto & Inter he never had any huge advantage over the rest of the teams in the league. What he did at these 2 clubs is nothing short of incredible put into context with Peps achievements. Jose & SAF are out on there own as far as managers of recent times go. I'm sure there's no managers out there atm who are capable of emulating these 2.
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You talk about two team leagues then mention Porto, unreal!

You do realise that Inter won 2 leagues prior to Mourinho taking over? One of those by 22 points!!

Make it sound like Mourinho worked with woeful players or produced miracles. He had the likes of Zlatan, Cesar, Maicon, Sneijder, Zanetti, Cambiasso, Figo, Crespo, Motta, Lucio, Millito, Eto'o to work with!

namco said:
It's unlikely we are going to be able to judge how good a manager Pep is after his time at City ends. It's highly likely he will outspend every other PL team during his time in charge. This already adding to the most expensive squad in the PL.
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He won't outspend United the way things are going...
 
Mark_Barca said:
You talk about two team leagues then mention Porto, unreal!

You do realise that Inter won 2 leagues prior to Mourinho taking over? One of those by 22 points!!

Make it sound like Mourinho worked with woeful players or produced miracles. He had the likes of Zlatan, Cesar, Maicon, Sneijder, Zanetti, Cambiasso, Figo, Crespo, Motta, Lucio, Millito, Eto'o to work with!
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I'm sure Jose won the CL with both Porto & Inter. Was this all a dream.



Mark_Barca said:
Pep won't outspend United the way things are going...
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We may well outspend City this season (although not by much) If we get 3 years of both Pep & Jose i'm sure Pep's spending will be higher over the period.
 
What's going on with the keeper situation? I've not followed them at all this summer but he's only been on the pitch for 5 minutes and he's fumbled another ball into his net. Caballero played the first half and didn't look like he relished being sweeper keeper.
 
In dire need of a defender who can play football for this system to work for us.

I suspect we'll go and agree a fee for Stones pretty sharpish on that showing.
 
Joe Hart again looking poor.

His diabolical Euros performance really may have shattered his confidence and exposed his weakness. Low shots down to his left.
 
Did City seriously play 3 at the back with Zabaleta and Kolorov? Is that how City are going to line up this season?
 
Raw said:
I highly doubt it, I don't think his main CBs were available.
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I meant more in terms of formation. Have they played 3 at the back in their other games?
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Joe Hart again looking poor.

His diabolical Euros performance really may have shattered his confidence and exposed his weakness. Low shots down to his left.
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He's a bang average GK.

I actually think we have a better squad on paper than City now and it's been a while since I have thought that.
 
Scholesy said:
Guardiola's tactics are the worst I have seen in a while
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In my opinion he tries way too hard to try and 're-invent the wheel.'

I am honestly pleased we didn't get another manager in that mould. Can't hack the posession game it's not suited to English footy.
 
Scholesy said:
Guardiola's tactics are the worst I have seen in a while
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I have been saying this for 4 years but I have been called a loonie by a lot of people. If his city team play with these tactics in the Premier League he will lose points 2 out of 3 games against the likes of West Brom, Sunderland, etc. His teams are so vulnerable defensively and now for the first time he does not have the best team in the world at his disposal to hide this weakness. We shall see what happens...
 
Red Bug said:
In my opinion he tries way too hard to try and 're-invent the wheel.'

I am honestly pleased we didn't get another manager in that mould. Can't hack the posession game it's not suited to English footy.
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Totally agree with this. Can't get my head around fernandinho playing at the back. He's not a centre back and never will be. It's worked with players in the past so now he feels he has to do it everywhere he goes.
 
Scholesy said:
Guardiola's tactics are the worst I have seen in a while
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Klopp's tactics were absolutely sh*t when he took over at Liverpool. Its because none of the players have seen them close up before and probably/definitely don't have the skillsets to carry out the instructions leaving gaping holes and general confusion.

Its called moulding the team into your vision. Which takes time as I'm sure I have mentioned in the Klopp Flopp watch thread often enough. Klopp has had that moulding time but Pep....oh boy, happy birthday and merry christmas Pep.
 
In terms of playing players in unfamiliar positions, LVG has nothing on this guy.
 
The red panther said:
Saying it is not hard isn't the same as saying everyone can do it.

He is a good coach but Mourinho, Klopp, Simeone have all achieved things I doubt Pep would have achieved if he was handed the same players. So calling him the best in the world is a bit premature in my opinion.

In my eyes there is only 1 true genius who deserves to be called the best manager and that is SAF.

Pep is a good coach, but Mourinho, Klopp, Simeone, Ancelotti, are all great coaches aswell and terms of being truely tested and taken out of their comfort zone Pep Guardiola is probably the least tested one. So again very interesting to see him now at City and see what he can achieve in the EPL with a much lesser team than he is used to work with.
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:lol: The sheer arrogance of United fans never fails to astound me.
 
Bit early to be writing Pep off isn't it, not even a single game played yet
 
namco said:
We are talking about what sets apart truly great managers from the rest.

At Barca, Pep was given some of the worlds greatest players in what was then a 2 team league. At Bayern, he was at the only club in the league to have any real financial power. He was also able to cherry pick the best players from their nearest rivals. At City he has an unlimited transfer budget & has also been given Aguero & KDB.

When Jose took over at Porto & Inter he never had any huge advantage over the rest of the teams in the league. What he did at these 2 clubs is nothing short of incredible put into context with Peps achievements. Jose & SAF are out on there own as far as managers of recent times go. I'm sure there's no managers out there atm who are capable of emulating these 2.

It's unlikely we are going to be able to judge how good a manager Pep is after his time at City ends. It's highly likely he will outspend every other PL team during his time in charge. This already adding to the most expensive squad in the PL.
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Seriously, what kind of nonsense is this? How did you get promoted?
 
P-Nut0712 said:
Totally agree with this. Can't get my head around fernandinho playing at the back. He's not a centre back and never will be. It's worked with players in the past so now he feels he has to do it everywhere he goes.
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I wrote some days ago that he would use him as a center back but nobody believed me. I thought he would use him in a 4-1-4-1 formation though with Guendogan as the holding midfielder. This 3-4-3 or 3-5-1-1 or whatever you call it is very, very weak defensively especially in the Premier League. City still have the best squad in the league and are favourites for the title but I think Guardiola will weaken them. He is not a good manager in my opinion and the last three years have proved me right. The previous 4 years have not but in my opinion that Barcelona team could have won everything with every single manager apart from Big Sam who would make Messi cross the ball for Puyol from the halfway line. Only time will show but I think he is the most overrated manager in the modern age and most of his decisions are bizarre and ineffective...
 
bungdan said:
Seriously, what kind of nonsense is this? How did you get promoted?
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Well I do think that there are like 100 managers in the world who would do exactly the same with his Barca team (is Luis Enrique now the best manager in the world?) and his Bayern team and around 30 managers that could do better with his Bayern team...
 
Wow. If anyone was wondering who the worst poster on red cafe is, I present @Slavkov to you.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Wow. If anyone was wondering who the worst poster on red cafe is, I present @Slavkov to you.
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Looking at the club you support I think your personal opinion and choices you make are equal in significance to the number of titles the team from the city of the free soup have won in the last 25 years...
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Wow. If anyone was wondering who the worst poster on red cafe is, I present @Slavkov to you.
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Yeah awful poster

You can argue a lot of managers would have had the Barca success that Pep had such as Ancelotti, Klopp etc but to say nearly every manager:lol:
The likes of Pardew and Mark Hughes would have had Barca playing the high level football they were playing?
If that's the case...why have R.Madrid had so many managers over the years?
 
Slavkov said:
Looking at the club you support I think your personal opinion and choices you make are equal in significance to the number of titles the team from the city of the free soup have won in the last 25 years...
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Quality stuff.
 
Slavkov said:
I wrote some days ago that he would use him as a center back but nobody believed me. I thought he would use him in a 4-1-4-1 formation though with Guendogan as the holding midfielder. This 3-4-3 or 3-5-1-1 or whatever you call it is very, very weak defensively especially in the Premier League. City still have the best squad in the league and are favourites for the title but I think Guardiola will weaken them.
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:confused:

They played what looked like a fairly run-of-the-mill 4231/433 today. Fernando and Kolarov played at centre back because they had no-one else available, and understandably they were a bit vulnerable. Actually that's not true, they did have one other option - some kid called Adarabioyo who presumably is a natural centre back but clearly not ready for this level because he got subbed on and fell to pieces.

They definitely need at least one proper ball-playing centre back though. In fact their entire back 5 needs to be revamped to fit his way of playing. Good luck to 'em is all I can say.
 
sammyvine said:
Yeah awful poster

You can argue a lot of managers would have had the Barca success that Pep had such as Ancelotti, Klopp etc but to say nearly every manager:lol:
The likes of Pardew and Mark Hughes would have had Barca playing the high level football they were playing?
If that's the case...why have R.Madrid had so many managers over the years?
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First of all I was of course not talking literally.
Secondly, look at what Real have won in the last 20 years with the number of managers they had.
Thirdly, Real won the Champions League with Zidane 3 months ago if I am not mistaken...
Lastly, is Luis Enrique the best manager in the world at the moment because he is matching what Guardiola did with Barca...
 
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Brwned said:
:confused:

They played what looked like a fairly run-of-the-mill 4231/433 today. Fernando and Kolarov played at centre back because they had no-one else available, and understandably they were a bit vulnerable. Actually that's not true, they did have one other option - some kid called Adarabioyo who presumably is a natural centre back but clearly not ready for this level because he got subbed on and fell to pieces.

They definitely need at least one proper ball-playing centre back though. In fact their entire back 5 needs to be revamped to fit his way of playing. Good luck to 'em is all I can say.
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I am sorry if that is the case as I of course did not watch the game but read the analysis and watched the highlights and I read that they played 3-4-2-1. I am again sorry for the inaccuracy of my post I will doublecheck everything from now on...
 
Slavkov said:
I am sorry if that is the case as I of course did not watch the game but read the analysis and watched the highlights and I read that they played 3-4-2-1. I am again sorry for the inaccuracy of my post.
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:confused:

You're commenting on a game you didn't even watch? That's weird.
 
Slavkov said:
First of all I was of course not talking literally.
Secondly, look at what Real have won in the last 20 years with the number of managers they had.
Thirdly, Real won the Champions League with Zidane 3 months ago if I am not mistaken...
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They did win it but there were not where near the level of Pep's Barcs team. That team was one of the best of all time.
 
Brwned said:
:confused:

You're commenting on a game you didn't even watch? That's weird.
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I watched extended highlights and read the analysis and where did you see me commenting exclusively on the game? I just said what I think Guardiola tactics will be and that he will use Fernando or Fernandinho at CB. I also said that his tactics make his defense very vulnerable. I never talked about the game against Arsenal...
 
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