Our most press resistant players

Champ said:
I think you've got it right.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse, it's just there's no one way if being 'press resistant' hence it's impossible to then be resistant to something that will always happen.

Certain players deal with the press better, but they are not immune to be pressed,

The literal definition of resistant is immune. To be immune to something or to fight back against something, neither of which is possible when you have a player pressing you.

Hence press resistance doesn't exist as a concept.
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ADJECTIVE
If something is resistant to a particular thing, it is not harmed by it.
...how to improve plants to make them more resistant to disease. [+ to]
The body may be less resistant if it is cold.
Synonyms: impervious, hard, strong, tough

Resistance is a relative term. So a plant can be improve to become MORE resistant to disease. Or a body may be LESS resistant if it is cold.

COMBINING FORM
-resistant is added to nouns to form adjectives that describe something as not being harmed or affected by the thing mentioned.
Children's suncare products are normally water-resistant.
...heat-resistant glass dishes.
...bullet-resistant glass.

Even in its strongest hyphenated form, it is still relative, e.g. a heat-resistant glass dish can only remain so up until a certain temperature.

You even mention one of the definitions of resistance as fighting back against something. So a player that is good at counteracting pressing tactics could be described as..?

Arguing that press resistance does not exist is pretty bizarre.
 
Daydreamer said:
ADJECTIVE
If something is resistant to a particular thing, it is not harmed by it.
...how to improve plants to make them more resistant to disease. [+ to]
The body may be less resistant if it is cold.
Synonyms: impervious, hard, strong, tough

Resistance is a relative term. So a plant can be improve to become MORE resistant to disease. Or a body may be LESS resistant if it is cold.

COMBINING FORM
-resistant is added to nouns to form adjectives that describe something as not being harmed or affected by the thing mentioned.
Children's suncare products are normally water-resistant.
...heat-resistant glass dishes.
...bullet-resistant glass.

Even in its strongest hyphenated form, it is still relative, e.g. a heat-resistant glass dish can only remain so up until a certain temperature.

You even mention one of the definitions of resistance as fighting back against something. So a player that is good at counteracting pressing tactics could be described as..?

Arguing that press resistance does not exist is pretty bizarre.
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Resistant: immune or impervious to something

No one is immune to a press, it happens whether you like it or not, it's how you deal with it that makes the difference.
 
Champ said:
Resistant: immune or impervious to something

No one is immune to a press, it happens whether you like it or not, it's how you deal with it that makes the difference.
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You’re just wrong. Heat resistant doesn’t mean heat doesn’t happen?
 
Tiki-Taka said:
You’re just wrong. Heat resistant doesn’t mean heat doesn’t happen?
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:lol:
Good job we're not dealing with fires here then.
And instead are talking about how some players are apparently resistant to a press. Which is physically impossible.
 
Champ said:
Resistant: immune or impervious to something

No one is immune to a press, it happens whether you like it or not, it's how you deal with it that makes the difference.
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I can’t tell if you’re on the wind-up or if you’re not actually aware what you’re saying. Resistance doesn’t always (and in fact, rarely) means total immunity or imperviousness. But for arguments sake, let’s just say that it did… you would still not be making sense.

Having immunity doesn’t cancel the existence of the thing that it is immune to. Yes, “pressing happens whether you like it or not.” And some players are better at resisting it (or “fighting” it - to use your own accurate definition) than others.

A player that is skilled at resisting the tactic of pressing could be called..?
 
Daydreamer said:
I can’t tell if you’re on the wind-up or if you’re not actually aware what you’re saying. Resistance doesn’t always (and in fact, rarely) means total immunity or imperviousness. But for arguments sake, let’s just say that it did… you would still not be making sense.

Having immunity doesn’t cancel the existence of the thing that it is immune to. Yes, “pressing happens whether you like it or not.” And some players are better at resisting it (or “fighting” it - to use your own accurate definition) than others.

A player that is skilled at resisting the tactic of pressing could be called..?
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No such thing as pressing
 
Daydreamer said:
I can’t tell if you’re on the wind-up or if you’re not actually aware what you’re saying. Resistance doesn’t always (and in fact, rarely) means total immunity or imperviousness. But for arguments sake, let’s just say that it did… you would still not be making sense.

Having immunity doesn’t cancel the existence of the thing that it is immune to. Yes, “pressing happens whether you like it or not.” And some players are better at resisting it (or “fighting” it - to use your own accurate definition) than others.

A player that is skilled at resisting the tactic of pressing could be called..?
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The literal definition of resistant is immune.

No one is immune to the press, but players can deal with it better than others.

Therefore no one is resistant to press.
 
Champ said:
The literal definition of resistant is immune.

No one is immune to the press, but players can deal with it better than others.

Therefore no one is resistant to press.
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I think this is the problem. Resistant doesn’t mean immune.
 
Champ said:
The literal definition of resistant is immune.

No one is immune to the press, but players can deal with it better than others.

Therefore no one is resistant to press.
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I copied and pasted a literal definition above, so this is clearly going in circles. Here’s another dictionary entry, just for fun:

resistant (to something) opposing something and trying to stop it happening
Elderly people are not always resistant to change.

Yet another example of resistance as counteracting something. But it seems that you are RESISTANT to the idea of reading definitions, so I’ll leave this discussion here.
 
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Tiki-Taka said:
I think this is the problem. Resistant doesn’t mean immune.
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It does. That is the literal definition of resistant.

It also means not harmed or affected by.

Which I suppose people could argue is a player turning out from the the press, however I would argue that player has then been affected by the press into adapting to it, hence no player is resistant to the press.
 
Daydreamer said:
I copied and pasted a literal definition above, so this is clearly going in circles. Here’s another dictionary entry, just for fun:

resistant (to something) opposing something and trying to stop it happening
Elderly people are not always resistant to change.

Yet another example of resistance as counteracting something. But it seems that you are RESISTANT to the idea of reading definitions, so I’ll leave this discussion here.
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Please read my post above,

The resistant also means immune,
 
Champ said:
It does. That is the literal definition of resistant.

It also means not harmed or affected by.

Which I suppose people could argue is a player turning out from the the press, however I would argue that player has then been affected by the press into adapting to it, hence no player is resistant to the press.
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Just when I think I’m out… I feel myself pulled back in.

As you’ve correctly stated, resistance is the quality of not being harmed by something else. Pressing is a tactic where a team attempts to dispossess the opposition by coordinated pressure relatively high up the pitch.

Counteracting this requires players with attributes including, but not limited to; first touch, close control, intelligent passing, spatial awareness, peripheral vision, good technique, body positioning, tactical acumen and dribbling.

A player who exhibits these qualities and as a result prevents his team being harmed by the opposing teams pressing tactics is therefore..?

Say it with me - I know you can do it.
 
Conor said:
A press resistant player is one that isn't fazed by being pressed, to the extent where their decision making is impacted, i.e. they can no longer play the right ball. Someone that just takes the easy pass when pressed isn't press resistant, they are literally succumbing to the press and playing the pass that the press was designed to promote. A press resistant player will find a way to still make the ideal pass in that scenario, by using body feints, close control etc.
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But sometimes players will dribble out of being pressed, or win a freekick by using their body to shield the ball and make 2 or 3 players rushing to close the team down waste their energy etc. You dont have to find a pass and you certainly dont have to find one that you would be making if the players werent quickly closing you down. No player does that. Every player sometimes makes an easy a sideways or backwards pass. Why? So when you do go for a pass thats going to hurt and be progressive you're going to sneak it in between the safe passes.

And the most common positive result from pressing is a loose touch or being on the backfoot while the attacker is pressing that can be pounced on. So its not necessarily to try and force a certain pass, but to raise the likelyhood of a mistake that you can be ready and in a good position to recover the ball from.
 
Ekeke said:
But sometimes players will dribble out of being pressed, or win a freekick by using their body to shield the ball and make 2 or 3 players rushing to close the team down waste their energy etc. You dont have to find a pass and you certainly dont have to find one that you would be making if the players werent quickly closing you down. No player does that. Every player sometimes makes an easy a sideways or backwards pass. Why? So when you do go for a pass thats going to hurt and be progressive you're going to sneak it in between the safe passes.

And the most common positive result from pressing is a loose touch or being on the backfoot while the attacker is pressing that can be pounced on. So its not necessarily to try and force a certain pass, but to raise the likelyhood of a mistake that you can be ready and in a good position to recover the ball from.
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Of course, dribbling out is also being resistant. The most common outcome from a press is the forcing of an opponent into a certain pass, the best outcome is them losing possession, but it's not what happens most of the time.

Being press resistant doesn't mean you never, ever succumb to the press, it just means you're better at dealing with it than most.
 
The problem with press resistance is not whether it exists as a concept. It's that it sounds bloody stupid, like something dreamt up by a 13 year old that's spent far, far too much time on FM. I prefer "he's good on the ball."
 
Daydreamer said:
Just when I think I’m out… I feel myself pulled back in.

As you’ve correctly stated, resistance is the quality of not being harmed by something else. Pressing is a tactic where a team attempts to dispossess the opposition by coordinated pressure relatively high up the pitch.

Counteracting this requires players with attributes including, but not limited to; first touch, close control, intelligent passing, spatial awareness, peripheral vision, good technique, body positioning, tactical acumen and dribbling.

A player who exhibits these qualities and as a result prevents his team being harmed by the opposing teams pressing tactics is therefore..?

Say it with me - I know you can do it.
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Is therefore someone who can beat the press.

Which insinuates the press has happened and that person is therefore not immune, impervious nor resistant to the press.
The press has happened and affected them.

Someone who escapes the press can do in multiple different ways, if someone escapes the press, doesn't make them immune to the press, as they have been affected by it enough to either change direction, change tact or change what they were planning on doing.
The press happens, someone adapts. If someone was 'resistant' to a press the press wouldn't affect them at all, as in they wouldn't have to change direction, wouldn't have to make a difficult pass or wouldn't have to pass sideways etc.

Call it pedantic but it's true.

No player is press resistant.
 
Champ said:
Is therefore someone who can beat the press.

Which insinuates the press has happened and that person is therefore not immune, impervious nor resistant to the press.
The press has happened and affected them.

Someone who escapes the press can do in multiple different ways, if someone escapes the press, doesn't make them immune to the press, as they have been affected by it enough to either change direction, change tact or change what they were planning on doing.
The press happens, someone adapts. If someone was 'resistant' to a press the press wouldn't affect them at all, as in they wouldn't have to change direction, wouldn't have to make a difficult pass or wouldn't have to pass sideways etc.

Call it pedantic but it's true.

No player is press resistant.
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Resistance is literally something working in opposition to something else. It is rarely absolute and is usually expressed in levels. Here are some examples:
  • Levels of resistance on a rowing machine
  • Levels of resistance in an electrical circuit
  • Levels of resistance against an attacker in a fight
  • Levels of resistance against an invading force in a war
In each case resistance is relative. In each case you could have higher or lower levels of resistance. In each case opposing force has some effect and the level of resistance determines how much of an effect. As the level of resistance increases, the effect of the opposing force decreases. Now apply this to the topic at hand:
  • The level of resistance against an opponent's pressing tactic
And the same concept applies. A player who is less press resistant will be adversely affected by the opponents press more often. A player who is more press resistant will be adversely affected by the opponents press less often. This may be the least controversial thing I've ever written.

Not only is your bolded sentence wrong - it is literally the opposite of being right. The purpose of pressing is to dispossess the other team high up the pitch. If the press happens and their opponent adapts to keep possession and progress their own attack, that is the very definition of resisting the tactic of pressing - it has been counteracted and it's harmful purpose has been neutralised.

You're keep stating that resistance means nothing other than complete immunity - despite several dictionary definitions, real-world examples and common sense showing this is not the case. I can't fathom what bothers you about the idea of resistance as a relative concept.

Here's a link to a resistance band. You might want to contact Gymshark to demand they rename it as it is not completely immune to being stretched. In fact, stretching it has an immediate and visible effect on it, so clearly they're guilty of false advertising.

Right, I'm actually done now.
 
Daydreamer said:
Resistance is literally something working in opposition to something else. It is rarely absolute and is usually expressed in levels. Here are some examples:
  • Levels of resistance on a rowing machine
  • Levels of resistance in an electrical circuit
  • Levels of resistance against an attacker in a fight
  • Levels of resistance against an invading force in a war
In each case resistance is relative. In each case you could have higher or lower levels of resistance. In each case opposing force has some effect and the level of resistance determines how much of an effect. As the level of resistance increases, the effect of the opposing force decreases. Now apply this to the topic at hand:
  • The level of resistance against an opponent's pressing tactic
And the same concept applies. A player who is less press resistant will be adversely affected by the opponents press more often. A player who is more press resistant will be adversely affected by the opponents press less often. This may be the least controversial thing I've ever written.

Not only is your bolded sentence wrong - it is literally the opposite of being right. The purpose of pressing is to dispossess the other team high up the pitch. If the press happens and their opponent adapts to keep possession and progress their own attack, that is the very definition of resisting the tactic of pressing - it has been counteracted and it's harmful purpose has been neutralised.

You're keep stating that resistance means nothing other than complete immunity - despite several dictionary definitions, real-world examples and common sense showing this is not the case. I can't fathom what bothers you about the idea of resistance as a relative concept.

Here's a link to a resistance band. You might want to contact Gymshark to demand they rename it as it is not completely immune to being stretched. In fact, stretching it has an immediate and visible effect on it, so clearly they're guilty of false advertising.

Right, I'm actually done now.
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The definition of resistant is to not be affected by something, or to be immune to something.

That's impossible in this instance as you've even said yourself that a player who is press resistant is still affected by the press.

Therefore a press resistant player is a physical impossibility.

The player may beat the press but they are not resistant to the press. They have had to change and adapt to beat the press, hence been affected.

A resistance band is using resistance as a force, it's fighting back against the force of pulling. Not sure what that has to do with anything here as we are not talking about resistance as a force.
 
Champ said:
The definition of resistant is to not be affected by something, or to be immune to something.

That's impossible in this instance as you've even said yourself that a player who is press resistant is still affected by the press.

Therefore a press resistant player is a physical impossibility.

The player may beat the press but they are not resistant to the press. They have had to change and adapt to beat the press, hence been affected.

A resistance band is using resistance as a force, it's fighting back against the force of pulling. Not sure what that has to do with anything here as we are not talking about resistance as a force.
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Assuming you live in a country with building regulations, you are surrounded by fire resistant materials every day. Those materials have fire resistance rating. What is that, you ask?
  • Model codes reference the ability of a material or assembly to maintain its particular fire-resistant properties as its fire resistance rating, expressed in hours. (cement.org)
Here's link to a wall with a fire resistance rating of 4 hours.
  • Is it completely impervious to fire? No.
  • Does it cause the fire to no longer exist? No.
  • Will fire affect it? Yes.
  • Does it resist fire? Yes.
Notice that it's fire resistance has a rating. That tells us that it is that it's resistance has limits and is not absolute. That tells us how fire resistant it is. This means something can be more or less resistant - in this case to fire. This means that it is a relative term.

Here's a link to player whose press resistance is highly rated.
  • Is he completely impervious to pressing? No.
  • Does he cause pressing to no longer exist? No.
  • Will pressing affect him? Yes.
  • Does he resist pressing? Yes.
He resists pressing, just like the wall resists fire. Therefore he is one of the most press _______ players in the world. Fill in the blank.

Come on, Champ. I know you have it in you.
 
Daydreamer said:
Assuming you live in a country with building regulations, you are surrounded by fire resistant materials every day. Those materials have fire resistance rating. What is that, you ask?
  • Model codes reference the ability of a material or assembly to maintain its particular fire-resistant properties as its fire resistance rating, expressed in hours. (cement.org)
Here's link to a wall with a fire resistance rating of 4 hours.
  • Is it completely impervious to fire? No.
  • Does it cause the fire to no longer exist? No.
  • Will fire affect it? Yes.
  • Does it resist fire? Yes.
Notice that it's fire resistance has a rating. That tells us that it is that it's resistance has limits and is not absolute. That tells us how fire resistant it is. This means something can be more or less resistant - in this case to fire. This means that it is a relative term.

Here's a link to player whose press resistance is highly rated.
  • Is he completely impervious to pressing? No.
  • Does he cause pressing to no longer exist? No.
  • Will pressing affect him? Yes.
  • Does he resist pressing? Yes.
He resists pressing, just like the wall resists fire. Therefore he is one of the most press _______ players in the world. Fill in the blank.

Come on, Champ. I know you have it in you.
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:lol:

I admire your attempts, but building regulations and fire 'integrity' is inherently different from a player being press resistant.

There are no set levels of 'press resistance' as all players are affected by the press. All players have to adapt and change what they are doing depending on the pressing player, they are not a static object like a wall.

A player can be better at beating the press than others but cannot be press resistant, as being resistant would assume that that player cannot be pressed or is not affected by it (the literal meaning of resistant), which is incorrect.

Feel free to make up levels of press resistance for players, quite how you'd be able to do that I don't know, as every game of football is different, every situation is different, unlike fire resistance which is measured in lab conditions at a steady temperature and is based on time.

The question that makes more sense is 'what players are better at dealing with the press ' rather than 'whose the most press resistant player', as the latter makes no sense.

We are essentially going round in circles here. I'll drop out and leave this thread to the rest of you to enjoy.
 
“I’m just going to stop you there Clive, you referred to the player as having a ‘wand of a left foot’, but from up here it looks like flesh and bone”
 
Malacia looks very press resistant so far. Sancho is probably our most press resistant player overall.
 
Now I've realised that no amount of dictionary definitions containing the words "more" and "less", or examples of resistance being relative will suffice - back to the actual subject of the thread...

Shaw and Sancho. Pogba was pretty good, too.

I don't watch all United's games, though.
 
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