Our lack of physicality

BusbyMalone said:
So that’s last week and now this game tonight where our lack of power and physicality, particularly in midfield, really stood out. It does literally look like men vs boys at times. We just flounder around while the opposition eases us off the ball or just bulldozer their way through the middle.

The question is, is this something that can be fixed? It’s quite alarming.
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It can be improved by not pretending Mason Mount is a central midfielder. But then we have Eriksen who's not been the same post injury and Mctominay who's physical but not great at playing forwards.


Personally od pick either over Mount but then I wouldn't have spent £50m on Mount to play him in midfield, because I'm not a suicidal lunatic.

But yeah it's a problem outside of that too. There's no point being an aggressive pressing side if the opposition can just brush through 3-4 of our players (basically anyone who isn't our back 4 or Casemiro) without even needing to play a pass.
 
Idxomer said:
Ten Hag has used him the last few times with Casemiro around in this weird Mount/VDB role. If he plays back alongside Casemiro, it could work but it's a very short-term solution. It also tells us that Ten Hag's squad building is kind of shit.
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I see 3 possibilities

Something that Ten Hag sees clicks and the Bruno and Mount experiment works.

It continues failing but Ten Hag is stubborn and we end up going into a tailspin.

Ten Hag is pragmatic and changes things. Mount goes to being a backup/rotation option for Bruno and the wingers for now.

Currently I can't see option 1 working and option 3 is better than 2 and I'd respect Ten Hag being pragmatic and maybe retrying that midfield 3 at a later date if he really believed in it. I wouldn't say I'm happy but he has some credit in the bank with me.
 
noodlehair said:
It can be improved by not pretending Mason Mount is a central midfielder. But then we have Eriksen who's not been the same post injury and Mctominay who's physical but not great at playing forwards.


Personally od pick either over Mount but then I wouldn't have spent £50m on Mount to play him in midfield, because I'm not a suicidal lunatic.

But yeah it's a problem outside of that too. There's no point being an aggressive pressing side if the opposition can just brush through 3-4 of our players (basically anyone who isn't our back 4 or Casemiro) without even needing to play a pass.
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It's quite concerning that our manager would spend that amount of money on Mount (who I quite like, to be honest, but not in this position) and then play him in this position next to Bruno, which then leaves a pretty immobile Casemiro to cover the whole midfield. I'm pretty sure most on here could see this coming before we even kicked a ball. The fact that he's seemingly intent on making it work is worrying.
 
Can Mctomimey not be thought to sit next to Casemiro? I think for now he's our best option physically
 
It's not physicality, it's football quality. We have too many shit ballers relying on results to hide their lack of football intelligence and technical skillset.
 
It’s actually quite embarrassing the way players have been running past and through our players these last few weeks. Sounds insane but Mctominay needs to come back in at this rate. Just to put someone on to actually attempt to make a tackle because these lads don’t fancy it.
 
BusbyMalone said:
It's quite concerning that our manager would spend that amount of money on Mount (who I quite like, to be honest, but not in this position) and then play him in this position next to Bruno, which then leaves a pretty immobile Casemiro to cover the whole midfield. I'm pretty sure most on here could see this coming before we even kicked a ball. The fact that he's seemingly intent on making it work is worrying.
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Yeah it's alarming. It's not even like you get an I told you so badge because nearly everyone could see what was going to happen. Ten Hag seems to be the only person watching our games who can't see its an issue.

I'm not sure Mount is good enough to get in our team anyway personally, but he's a United player now so want him to do well. But the manager is hanging him out to dry with this rubbish. He'll be the criticism target because teams will just keep running through him. He's being expected to do something that has nothing at all to do with what his strengths are, which is Ten Hag's fault not his.
 
Rightnr said:
It's not physicality, it's football quality. We have too many shit ballers relying on results to hide their lack of football intelligence and technical skillset.
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It doesn't have to be one over the other, to be fair. Our lack of technical skills on the ball is quite apparent, but so too is our lack of physicality particularly when it comes to the defensive side. Players just breeze past us, while almost literally holding us at arm's length, akin to what a bully would do to a much smaller kid. As I said, men vs boys at times.
 
BusbyMalone said:
So that’s last week and now this game tonight where our lack of power and physicality, particularly in midfield, really stood out. It does literally look like men vs boys at times. We just flounder around while the opposition eases us off the ball or just bulldozer their way through the middle.

The question is, is this something that can be fixed? It’s quite alarming.
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Said after the Wolves game, we have zero pace through the squad.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Maybe just me but I find the lack of mentality more disturbing
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I totally agree with this.
You can see that those with a solid mentality are perfectly capable physically. Martinez was lambasted as being too small, no one says that anymore.
The saying "he would run through a brick wall for the club" is not dependent on size or physicality, but is a reflection on how much drive and desire they have.

The vast majority of every player and staff member at Manchester United do not care one bit about the club. So we are left in the position that situations like - Rashford backs out of 50/50's. Martial is happy to sit on the medical table. Arnold or Murtugh or whoever cannot get rig of Maguire or bring players we need rather than those we don't. etc. etc. etc.

Name those that would "run through a brick wall for the club" everyone else should be informed that they are out at the first opportunity.
 
BusbyMalone said:
It doesn't have to be one over the other, to be fair. Our lack of technical skills on the ball is quite apparent, but so too is our lack of physicality particularly when it comes to the defensive side. Players just breeze past us, while almost literally holding us at arm's length, akin to what a bully would do to a much smaller kid. As I said, men vs boys at times.
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I don't necessary disagree completely BUT Madrid have proven how quality can compensate for the high intensity of the English teams (except last season with City and even then they were beaten on football merit).
 
OL29 said:
It’s been obvious that we’ve been crying out for physicality which is why it concerns me to see ETH still chasing players like Pavard. I think he’s massively underestimated this element of the premier league.
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How could he not pick up on our lack of physicality,we were beaten up in midfield by all the better teams last season.Its extremely worrying he has not addressed the issue.Surely Mclaren would of wised him up as well.
 
Ludens the Red said:
It’s actually quite embarrassing the way players have been running past and through our players these last few weeks. Sounds insane but Mctominay needs to come back in at this rate. Just to put someone on to actually attempt to make a tackle because these lads don’t fancy it.
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Mctominay is also someone who can pick up the ball and carry it forward while using his physicality, in a way that we saw from some of the Wolves and Spurs midfielders. Now, make no mistake about it, the man has his limitations. I'm not trying to make out that he's De Jong or anything, but I'm just saying, we haven't got anyone else like him in the squad.
 
Baxquux said:
Better players in terms of passing with similar levels of physicality for what Everton would charge us. Almost at the level where you might as well just play McT otherwise, and I don't think McTominay should be near this squad.
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Who has the same physicality as Onana? Tall, strong and fast
 
Sloppiness, decision making and the whole attack are just a few of bigger issues. Lack of pressing and intensity can be added to the list as well.

Mctominay playing and pointlessly wrestling someone to the ground might make people feel better but he gets completely bypassed and doesn’t solve anything on or off the ball.
 
stolen from ivor said:
How could he not pick up on our lack of physicality,we were beaten up in midfield by all the better teams last season.Its extremely worrying he has not addressed the issue.Surely Mclaren would of wised him up as well.
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Stubbornness I think.
 
Roboc7 said:
Sloppiness, decision making and the whole attack are just a few of bigger issues. Lack of pressing and intensity can be added to the list as well.

Mctominay playing and pointlessly wrestling someone to the ground might make people feel better but he gets completely bypassed and doesn’t solve anything on or off the ball.
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Not what people are suggesting he do in here. And it's been noted that he is a fairly good ball carrier who is capable of riding a few challenges and using his physical attributes effectively unlike a fair amount of our first team players. But, we are well aware of his lack of passing and vision and probably most of his technical footballing abilities but, physically he is quite accomplished.

If anything, it will allow us to hold on to the ball longer, move up the pitch quicker and potentially bypass the other teams midfield like other teams have done to us.
 
FrankDrebin said:
But fans are turning their nose up at Onana.
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I definitely wasn't but we also need Amrabat as well to provide that passing and possession in there. The trouble is due to spending the thick end of £60m on Mount we will have to choose between them
 
BusbyMalone said:
And the thing is, I'm not necessarily talking about needing a really big player (in terms of physique). We need someone who can drive and carry the ball on. Obviously, from a defensive POV, I think we could benefit from a physically bigger player, but we just don't have any fecking drive.
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Yeah we definitely need a player who offers that physicality but can also drive the ball forward
 
stolen from ivor said:
How could he not pick up on our lack of physicality,we were beaten up in midfield by all the better teams last season.Its extremely worrying he has not addressed the issue.Surely Mclaren would of wised him up as well.
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That's the weird thing about manager's making baffling decisions, whether it be team selections, subs, transfers. He actually has a team of assistants, analysts and coaches giving their input daily which you think would sway them towards more logical conclusions. Presumably they must all agree with him, or he just completely ignore them if they disagree with him.

And then when it comes to transfers, you can add in our scouting department and football directors. So between all of them, they've all concluded Mason Mount was the answer to our midfield woes... I just don't understand how that's possible.
 
Bit mad this thread. Onana, Shaw, Martinez, Varane, AWB, Casemiro are all solid, physical and generally win their one to ones. I’d throw in Antony there too.

Our wingers and midfielders are weak as feck though.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Bit mad this thread. Onana, Shaw, Martinez, Varane, AWB, Casemiro are all solid, physical and generally win their one to ones. I’d throw in Antony there too.

Our wingers and midfielders are weak as feck though.
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To be fair, you've named our back 4 and goalkeeper... The focus of this thread was midfield and attack.

Casemiro has strength, but he's getting very easily dribbled past because yet again we've signed a player past his physical prime.

Antony works harder defensively than our other wide players so he seems to get over the top plaudits for it considering he's really not that effective in terms of his defensive work despite the effort. Not physically strong, and doesn't have the pace to make up for it.
 
Out of all of the reactionary threads, this is the one that I agree with the most. It's too easy to simply pick up the ball in midfield and run against us. Antony, Bruno, Mount, Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho - none of them are imposing when you're the oppo defender / defensive mid with the ball. I swear average midfielders like Joelinton, Longstaff etc have had a field day against us multiple times. If you put McTominay against our midfield he'd look world class.

There's something lacking in how we apply pressure - guys like Rangnick simply called it intensity. But upto Ten Hag to sort out.
 
Not just physicality why does the squad just not look fit? It’s the same story every year where we just look way off the pace at the start of the season.
 
KD6-3.7 said:
Not just physicality why does the squad just not look fit? It’s the same story every year where we just look way off the pace at the start of the season.
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Particularly in the last 30 minutes of that game yesterday. The difference in fitness was so stark. I'm not buying the pre-season excuse from some, either. We're not the only team who traveled. I'm not a fan of the traveling we do over pre-season, but it's not unique to us.
 
Teja said:
Out of all of the reactionary threads, this is the one that I agree with the most. It's too easy to simply pick up the ball in midfield and run against us. Antony, Bruno, Mount, Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho - none of them are imposing when you're the oppo defender / defensive mid with the ball. I swear average midfielders like Joelinton, Longstaff etc have had a field day against us multiple times. If you put McTominay against our midfield he'd look world class.

There's something lacking in how we apply pressure - guys like Rangnick simply called it intensity. But upto Ten Hag to sort out.
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It's all too loose. There's no structure to it. Hence why there are gaps everywhere. We made Wolves look so good the other day as they waltzed their way through our midfield, and they're not a great team.
 
A player like Moussa Dembele in his prime at Fulham and Spurs would transform this side.

We need someone who can pick the ball up deep and drive forward.
 
Just shows how poorly we’re run. It was only a few seasons ago we were all moaning the squad was filled with too many physical and athletic players and we required more with technical ability and finesse. Now it’s went completely the other way again.
 
Malone_Post said:
We keep spending huge money on players that either aren’t they physical or athletic in the first place (Mount, Antony, Martinez) or are physically past their best (Casimero, Eriksen)

Horrific squad building.
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But Murtough is good at his job, the caf told me so!
 
“Only once in his career has Pep made a mistake – in his first year at Manchester City when he completely underestimated the power and speed of the Premier League,” Ten Hag told Voetbal International (via the Manchester Evening News).

“He realised that you can’t play the kind of football he loves without having a couple of physically strong athletes – and so he brought them in. So he’s not a stubborn coach."

https://onefootball.com/en/news/eri...judged-physicality-of-premier-league-29894972
 
A big issue is that given the way it looks like ETH wants to play the front 5 we’ll say. ( Rashford, Garnacho,Antony,Mount and Bruno) have not done well enough in and out of possesion.
If the idea is that the team is super aggressive and wins the ball back high up the pitch then they need to do a lot better and the defence needs to move up.

They need to keep the ball better and make more passes so the team can set. Need to get away from this one time Hollywood magical pass idea and work teams be Ause they are turning possesion over way too often through stupid mistakes that is just getting us caught wildly out of position and midfield empty. That seems to be a bigger issue right now.

I do agree we need people that can move the ball out of midfield said as much last season but if ETH somehow gets this system to work I think it’ll be alright. We just seem very light.
 
KD6-3.7 said:
Not just physicality why does the squad just not look fit? It’s the same story every year where we just look way off the pace at the start of the season.
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Our pre-season is probably 80% about revenue and 20% about preparation. That's not new though, like a lot of things SAF was capable of winning in spite of it. He had a squad of hungry winners though that knew they could be replaced in the team/squad if the boss saw their standards slip.

What's ETH supposed to do when 5 or 6 of his best players let their standards slip from time to time? It'll take a few years to really understand who the blaggers are, and be confident there's a guaranteed better alternative to replace them with. Everyone thinks Amrabat will solve everything, who's to say he's not just another underwhelming performer too. It's a risk, I'm not saying we shouldn't take that risk but fan expectation isn't realistic. Amrabat won't solve Rashford not wanting to play upfront, or Fernandes giving the ball away, or the likes of Varane, Martinez, Casemiro (quality players 70% of the time) being in sides that crumble away from home, at best helpless to drag the collective into a football team that plays to it's potential.
 
The right players for the right games. One physically good midfielder would be nice to just control the games more.

… and I actually think Mount did very well whenever he was involved up until the goals. Had we gotten the penalty, we might not have had this thread (yet)
 
Blood Mage said:
But Murtough is good at his job, the caf told me so!
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Don't think Murtough picks the players,he just facilitates the deal, it's on the manager and scouting department,the players are their choices.Not been happy at how much autonomy Ten Haag has been given.Ajax fans warned he had a poor track record and had signed a lot of duffers in the past.Not been impressed with any of his signings or his squad building.
 
Wasn't this the main bullet point in Ralf Rangnicks dossier on the squad ., an issue he said that needed to be urgently addressed through recruitment.
 
Lack physicality but also technically.

Players just don't have the strength to muscle players out of the way and aren't technically good enough at playing in 1 & 2 touches under pressure at the same time.
 
Betson said:
Wasn't this the main bullet point in Ralf Rangnicks dossier on the squad ., an issue he said that needed to be urgently addressed through recruitment.
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There was no dossier. But it was the one thing Rangnick pointed out that was correct.

He mentioned it in press conferences a couple of times.
 
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