Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?

We have and always have had zero structure and leadership in the defence this season and it shows massively.

Defences win you titles and our goals conceded is joint with 3rd bottom in the league and Burnley have conceded 3 goals less, which shows why we won't mount a title challenge. And we won't win the league, or challenge for it until our defence is properly structured, trained and has leadership qualities within it.
 
As a team we are easy to score against. A team can casually drop 2 or 3 goals against us if they have a good day. Sheffield have scored 4 vs us over 2 games. PSG and RB dropped 3 each in consecutive games. Liverpool who have been struggling to score dropped 2 at the weekend. We have conceded 42 goals in all comps this season. I don't know if that is good or not as I don't track all comps most seasons, but if this is approx halfway point then we are on course for conceding 80+ goals if we get to the final of the Europa and FA. cup at this rate
 
I hate how we praise our defence and defenders for just being there. Being close to the right spot is good enough. They witnessed the goals, congratulations. All our CBs aside from Bailly are slow, don't react anywhere near fast enough and become late to close things down and attack the ball.
 
No, we cannot defend and our defensive record speaks for itself. Sheffield's second goal is simply shocking, the amount of space their players got in the box in the space of 5 seconds is just mindblowing :wenger:
 
It's not a personnel issue it's a tactical one. We had one of the best defensive record last season in Europe if I'm correct. Starting this season the defence has massively regressed, the coaches in need of heavy criticism when it comes to instructing the players positionally and how to assertively apply discipline. If the impetus is on us to attack we are awful at the back but if we are required to absorb pressure we are more robust. Ole needs to find a balance because you can't collect change with a hole in your pocket.
 
passing-wind said:
It's not a personnel issue it's a tactical one. We had one of the best defensive record last season in Europe if I'm correct. Starting this season the defence has massively regressed, the coaches in need of heavy criticism when it comes to instructing the players positionally and how to assertively apply discipline. If the impetus is on us to attack we are awful at the back but if we are required to absorb pressure we are more robust. Ole needs to find a balance because you can't collect change with a hole in your pocket.
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basically we can either do one or the other. A poster said this a few months back when we started our good run. He wasn't getting hyped about our position and questioned the manager as the poster felt we can't defend and attack well in the same game. I think this was the game after the Leeds match. Cannot remember the posters name.
 
dove said:
No, we cannot defend and our defensive record speaks for itself. Sheffield's second goal is simply shocking, the amount of space their players got in the box in the space of 5 seconds is just mindblowing :wenger:
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That looks like a kickabout with mates ffs.
 
If the opposition are constantly going to just load the 6 yard box from corners, surely we have to be putting men on the posts?
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we need a defence coach. Our manager and coaching squad are either midfielders or strikers, and I don't think they have the nous to organise the defence. That second goal was laughable really, and tonight was a game where we got no luck whatsoever, but just not marking a player who was standing alone in our penalty area for 5 or 6 seconds was criminal.
 
We obviously haven't addressed defending corner kicks. The second SU goal was a mashup of bad clearances and luck.

A club can always improve its squad, but our front line is vastly greater concern than our back line.
 
Solskjaer wants to play a high line and play a more expansive game and to do that effectively you need your CBs to both defend in a structured block and also give you the option of playing a high line in isolation so it allows the team to sacrifice defensive stability for goals. We can defend in a deep block but haven't shown the ability to play with risk which is what needs fixing and why it's reported Ole wanting a commanding CB who can defend 1v1 in isolation.

Until that is fixed with the right CB then we will always allow opposition attackers to trouble us due to some of our CBs not being comfortable in playing a certain way which affects our midfield, attackers and fullbacks.

So ideally we need both a CB and DM with the correct attributes if we're to effectively attack with 6/7 and defend with 3/4. We can't do this right now IMO.
 
passing-wind said:
It's not a personnel issue it's a tactical one. We had one of the best defensive record last season in Europe if I'm correct. Starting this season the defence has massively regressed, the coaches in need of heavy criticism when it comes to instructing the players positionally and how to assertively apply discipline. If the impetus is on us to attack we are awful at the back but if we are required to absorb pressure we are more robust. Ole needs to find a balance because you can't collect change with a hole in your pocket.
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Well, it was supposed to be walk in the park, that's why Tuanzebe and Telles started.
 
Yeah it’s really bad, basically crumbles under any sort of pressure. Balls into the six yard box are like a nuclear bomb to these players. We had a decent spell defensively at the start of the year, leading up to lockdown. We’ve not hit those heights at all since. Luke Shaw is literally the only one in our defence who can say they’re not worse than they were a year ago.
 
I can't believe that we spent over 200m on that tripe
 
The center back pairing is a real problem.

1) Maguire has no bench player and as consequence, plays every...literally every game (Premier, FA cup, Champions, UEFA, Carabao) he risks turning into a walking zombie

2) Maguire and Lindelof don't compliment each other as a CB pairing, Bailey is to injury prone, and I wasn't overly impressed with Tuanzebe's performance against Sheffield...he's looking like a bench option at best.

3) Wan Bissaka needs some back up, hopefully Brandon Williams will go out on loan, and develop. He's much better going forward.
 
This last week has surely shown that the best combination we have at the club is Wan Bissaka - Bailly - Maguire - Shaw.

Wan Bissaka definitely could do with some competition and I wouldn't have been against bring Trippier in for a few years to provide that while we see how AWB improves.
 
OP: just get rid of that fecking fanny of a keeper. We’ve got 2x on the books that would cost us less goals and less money. Insane how we have stuck with him. He has been average, as opposed to shit this season. Build a statue. VDS played for us until he was getting on 40 and leaves this coward for dead. He only gets a game because of yet another fecking stupid contract dished out by our fecking ceo. Can’t be arsed going through the list of them that this idiot has dished out but suffice to say, “Phil Jones”

As for Martial....

despite silly choices we persist with, heading in the right direction.
 
On MNF after the Liverpool league game, Gary Neville did a brilliant piece on where he thinks we can improve (our right side and defence), the piece on the defence was really interesting. He was talking about a 2-3 yard shift, out of the box or closer to the play. I think it can be found on youtube, under what do man utd need (not sure if I can post the link here).

After watching that, there were a few examples against Fulham - namely in the second half when RLC had a few chances, but yesterday's second goal was a case in point. Our defence, led by Maguire seems to take on a position close to the 6 yard line and camp there until we get control of the ball on an attack - essentially backing ourselves to deal with the crosses rather than the risk of some space in behind. I think we actually deal with crosses pretty well, and the reason for conceding more is probably because of this approach which means we face more of those sort of attacks.

Yesterday is only one game, and as many other posters have mentioned we were due one of these especially considering with how lucky we were against Brighton and Southampton, I add Wolves to that as I thought we were not very good, and West Ham who have looked really good this year - we could have been put away by West Ham before having a chance to come back (potentially some fortune in Pogba's goal there) so hopefully yesterday has taught OGS that in the league we cannot risk such wholescale rotation - but if it gives us the kick up the backside which other losses have done this season it is what it is.
 
@Di Maria's angel (I think) had it right after the West Ham game (I think it was that game). We've made a habit of starting games so poorly for months now, but since we were picking up the points he was hounded and called an idiot by sammsky and his mob.

We've recovered 21 points from losing positions and everyone's been ecstatic over that given our league position but it kind of ignores the fact that we need to come from behind every other game due to poor starts. Hardly sustainable over a long period of time as not every team will collapse if given a free goal right at the beginning of every game, and especially not when we're not looking good for 2+ goals per game on the basis of our play. And it's definitely not sustainable against better teams that you're likely to face the further you go into cup competitions.
 
2 seasons ago people thought our defence was a disaster. We had the 10th worst defensive record in the league, middle of the 20 premier league teams.

This season we have the 8th worst defensive record. We're even worse by 2 places.

Last season we did have a better record but this season and at this point in time, we've clearly regressed and we're actually doing the worst we've done for quite a while in this area. I really rate our fullbacks but as a collective, from the keeper to the defence, to the protections from midfield and tracking back we're doing very poorly defensively this season and we clearly havent improved
 
Ekeke said:
2 seasons ago people thought our defence was a disaster. We had the 10th worst defensive record in the league, middle of the 20 premier league teams.

This season we have the 8th worst defensive record. We're even worse by 2 places.

Last season we did have a better record but this season and at this point in time, we've clearly regressed and we're actually doing the worst we've done for quite a while in this area. I really rate our fullbacks but as a collective, from the keeper to the defence, to the protections from midfield and tracking back we're doing very poorly defensively this season and we clearly havent improved
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12th*
 
This back 5 isn't good enough to win any major trophies, IMO.

We have two big problems in the shape of AWB and Maguire. AWB is not the worst defender we have at the club, but he's just average. He's not a £50 million defender. And I know bringing money into it as an argument is always tricky because it can come off as a bit vague as it's difficult to judge monetary worth, but I think people will know what I'm getting at. There's just so much lacking in his game. One on one, he's still excellent. But other areas of his game are either lacking or just nonexistent. And just like Maguire, because he cost so much and he's supposed to be ort main RB, he's always going to play.

But Maguire is the bigger problem, for me. Not because he's the worst defender in history or anything daft like that, but he's just painfully average and not good enough for where we want to be. But he cost an absolute fortune, he's the first player on the team sheet, he plays every game and he's our captain (which is mind-boggling). So with all that you expect a leader who marshals his backline, is cool under pressure and doesn't panic. He doesn't do any of that. He's an absolute nervous fecking wreck when he's under pressure. And the reason why he's a big problem is that he's always going to play, and will do for the foreseeable future. Certainly under Ole, anyway.
 
Ekeke said:
2 seasons ago people thought our defence was a disaster. We had the 10th worst defensive record in the league, middle of the 20 premier league teams.

This season we have the 8th worst defensive record. We're even worse by 2 places.

Last season we did have a better record but this season and at this point in time, we've clearly regressed and we're actually doing the worst we've done for quite a while in this area. I really rate our fullbacks but as a collective, from the keeper to the defence, to the protections from midfield and tracking back we're doing very poorly defensively this season and we clearly havent improved
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We've regressed because we are expected to come onto teams and attack them more. Last season we played 2 holding midfielders and reacted to opposision as we only had the players for that. No Bruno no Pogba no Martial/Rashford for periods so we played like a midtable side for large parts. Now we have to attack teams as they respect our attacking talent but it leaves us exposed and we don't know how to attack well and defend well in the same game.......
 
Taking away the tripe that Martial and Matic had with their involvement in that comical Sheff U second goal last night, the two principal defenders to blame were Tuanzebe and Telles. No coincidence that both these players were the ones bought in from the cold and their roles in that goal typified players who are not match sharp and up to speed. I find it very hard to believe that if say Shaw and Bailly are on the pitch, that chance would not be snuffed out or certainly blocked and there’s no issue. What it does show is that the drop off to squad players is worryingly weak.

The goalkeeper position also continues to be a concern and is something Ole and the fans can’t keep burying our head in the sand with. Everything about DDG and that second goal whether it be decision making, execution or general demeanour during and after the goal is hugely concerning and needs addressing as one of the priorities if not now, but at the end of the season.
 
BusbyMalone said:
This back 5 isn't good enough to win any major trophies, IMO.

We have two big problems in the shape of AWB and Maguire. AWB is not the worst defender we have at the club, but he's just average. He's not a £50 million defender. And I know bringing money into it as an argument is always tricky because it can come off as a bit vague as it's difficult to judge monetary worth, but I think people will know what I'm getting at. There's just so much lacking in his game. One on one, he's still excellent. But other areas of his game are either lacking or just nonexistent. And just like Maguire, because he cost so much and he's supposed to be ort main RB, he's always going to play.

But Maguire is the bigger problem, for me. Not because he's the worst defender in history or anything daft like that, but he's just painfully average and not good enough for where we want to be. But he cost an absolute fortune, he's the first player on the team sheet, he plays every game and he's our captain (which is mind-boggling). So with all that you expect a leader who marshals his backline, is cool under pressure and doesn't panic. He doesn't do any of that. He's an absolute nervous fecking wreck when he's under pressure. And the reason why he's a big problem is that he's always going to play, and will do for the foreseeable future. Certainly under Ole, anyway.
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Shaw has been fantastic though this season. He deserves a lot of praise.
 
Hammondo said:
Shaw has been fantastic though this season. He deserves a lot of praise.
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Oh, 100%. Particularly these last few weeks, he's been excellent. Been our best defender, definitely.

Don't mind Lindelof, either. He's decent. Nothing special but a good squad player. I concentrated on Maguire and AWB because they are our first choice defenders who also happened to cost a fortune. Maguire in particular, obviously.
 
Let's be honest defence is our weakest area of the squad
Shaw - Fantastic this season - best defender at the club
AWB - Good 1 on 1 defensively - poor going forwards
Maguire - Vastly overrated makes a lot of errors moves like a tortoise
Lindelof - Similar level to Maguire
Bailly - Injured again in training cant be relied on
Telles - Been poor. At least he seems to have ensured Shaw upps his performance
Tuanzebe - Needs a loan and a run of games
Rojo - Feck off
Jones - Feck feck off
Williams - Needs a loan
 
RashfordisRed said:
On MNF after the Liverpool league game, Gary Neville did a brilliant piece on where he thinks we can improve (our right side and defence), the piece on the defence was really interesting. He was talking about a 2-3 yard shift, out of the box or closer to the play. I think it can be found on youtube, under what do man utd need (not sure if I can post the link here).

After watching that, there were a few examples against Fulham - namely in the second half when RLC had a few chances, but yesterday's second goal was a case in point. Our defence, led by Maguire seems to take on a position close to the 6 yard line and camp there until we get control of the ball on an attack - essentially backing ourselves to deal with the crosses rather than the risk of some space in behind. I think we actually deal with crosses pretty well, and the reason for conceding more is probably because of this approach which means we face more of those sort of attacks.

Yesterday is only one game, and as many other posters have mentioned we were due one of these especially considering with how lucky we were against Brighton and Southampton, I add Wolves to that as I thought we were not very good, and West Ham who have looked really good this year - we could have been put away by West Ham before having a chance to come back (potentially some fortune in Pogba's goal there) so hopefully yesterday has taught OGS that in the league we cannot risk such wholescale rotation - but if it gives us the kick up the backside which other losses have done this season it is what it is.
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Just post it?

Btw, does anyone know how many set pieces we have conceded this season?
 
Bobcat said:
This. Baily can look like a world beater one match, then the next he plays like a weasel on cocaine. If he was consistent he would be one of the best CB's in the world, but unfortunately hes not
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Well put :lol: :lol: :lol:

Most of our problems come down to inconsistency in the end, rather than lack of player talent. My take is that this is a coaching problem. Under Jose in his prime second season the football was dire but we tended not to leak goals like this. But we don't in any case play a defense first game so giving away goals per se is not the end of the world. It's just how it happens.
 
BusbyMalone said:
This back 5 isn't good enough to win any major trophies, IMO.

We have two big problems in the shape of AWB and Maguire. AWB is not the worst defender we have at the club, but he's just average. He's not a £50 million defender. And I know bringing money into it as an argument is always tricky because it can come off as a bit vague as it's difficult to judge monetary worth, but I think people will know what I'm getting at. There's just so much lacking in his game. One on one, he's still excellent. But other areas of his game are either lacking or just nonexistent. And just like Maguire, because he cost so much and he's supposed to be ort main RB, he's always going to play.

But Maguire is the bigger problem, for me. Not because he's the worst defender in history or anything daft like that, but he's just painfully average and not good enough for where we want to be. But he cost an absolute fortune, he's the first player on the team sheet, he plays every game and he's our captain (which is mind-boggling). So with all that you expect a leader who marshals his backline, is cool under pressure and doesn't panic. He doesn't do any of that. He's an absolute nervous fecking wreck when he's under pressure. And the reason why he's a big problem is that he's always going to play, and will do for the foreseeable future. Certainly under Ole, anyway.
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I agree. Maguire isn't a leader. If Bruno was our CB he would be screaming at the defence to get tight on the attackers. I don't know what Maguire was doing during the build up to the second goal last night.
 
BusbyMalone said:
Oh, 100%. Particularly these last few weeks, he's been excellent. Been our best defender, definitely.

Don't mind Lindelof, either. He's decent. Nothing special but a good squad player. I concentrated on Maguire and AWB because they are our first choice defenders who also happened to cost a fortune. Maguire in particular, obviously.
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I agree. Maguire is so slow he is late to attack anything and its just easy to find space around him.
 
Stacks said:
We've regressed because we are expected to come onto teams and attack them more. Last season we played 2 holding midfielders and reacted to opposision as we only had the players for that. No Bruno no Pogba no Martial/Rashford for periods so we played like a midtable side for large parts. Now we have to attack teams as they respect our attacking talent but it leaves us exposed and we don't know how to attack well and defend well in the same game.......
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We still play with 2 holding players :confused:

And we still play on the counter.
 
Ekeke said:
We still play with 2 holding players :confused:

And we still play on the counter.
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We don't play on the counter every game. We were not playing on the counter today as our oppo sat back. We did not sit and try to hit Fulham on the counter. Nor Burnley nor Wolves. Wolves did the same as Sheffield. Teams basically try to hit US on the counter now.
 
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