Outrageously good?
Film Oscars 2025
- Thread starter Salt Bailly
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The Oscars have become way too insular. I don't know if it's because the campaigning swallowed them up, or the growing gap between financial success and critical acclaim, or what. But they're very bad at picking anything with staying power these days.
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Is it me or that's a terribly weak apology? Sprinkled with a little "Even me, a european white actress nominated to the Oscars, have suffered from this" on top?
Has anybody seen The Brutalist? Is it good? I liked the trailer but I'm not sure if I want to invest the runtime of 1.1 Titanics on it.
I liked The Substance but it isn't even close to the kind of movie that I would expect to win best picture. Haven't seen the rest but I only have some interest in seeing Conclave and Anora.
Is staying power necessarily a sign of quality?
Just finished the Conclave. A solid 8 for me but it's all Ralph Fienes and the rest is just meh. I haven't watched the rest (planning for Emilia Perez tomorrow) but hard to top his performances. It's practically a one man show for him
Conclave and Anora are good films. Like you, most of the other noms aren't that interesting to me. Emilia Perez sounds sort of fascinating (in a negative way), might give it a watch just to see if it's as bad as it seems
I see Kieran Culkin has been nominated for best supporting actor in A Real Pain.
I think that’s a good shout. He was great and thought the film was really good (unexpectedly). There’s so many layers to his character that you aren’t told fully and it leaves you discussing him well after the film ended.
Hope he gets it. Rated this performance.
I think that’s a good shout. He was great and thought the film was really good (unexpectedly). There’s so many layers to his character that you aren’t told fully and it leaves you discussing him well after the film ended.
Hope he gets it. Rated this performance.
I think so, yeah. But I'm thinking more about 'they' not knowing how to pick 'Best Pictures' anymore.
The list of winners from the 70s is incredible and (mostly) has staying power: Patton, The French Connection, The Godfather, The Sting, The Godfather II, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Rocky, Annie Hall, The Deer Hunter, Kramer vs Kramer. Most of those are regularly in 'top films of the 70s' lists. But I think it was easier to pick these winners because many of these movies were massive hits. Some of them were the highest grossing movie of the year they were released in. So you have audience reception, critical reception, 'cultural impact', all these are helpful cues to make a pick that is more likely (but by no means certain) to be a "genuine" great movie than a "flash in the pan."
But now these types of movies don't make that much money, some don't even get much of a theatrical release, and a lot of them are good in quality. So the voter has less cues to guide them, and I think they end up led by the 'consensus' (which is often the product of campaigning) or stupid horseshit like 'backlash against the frontrunner.'
She tweets like a John Waters character from Pink Flamingos.
I mean remaking a film with a better cast and a better director, making it twice as long and yet somehow managing to have less depth of character, symbolism and narrative cohesion and still winning Best Picture and Best Adapted screenplay is certainly outrageously something
But it did have a lot more shouting in fairness
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Very funny how god awful every Oscar nominee is this year
She's French, what do you expect.
(I'm French it's ok I can say this)
The whole ceremony should be a 3h loop of wholesome David Lynch clips and interviews.
You didn’t enjoy the Substance then?
As a body horror about self hatred it’s fine. It’s worth watching for Demi Moore great performance.
But it has nothing to say on the modern world. Why is a fitness show and New Years Eve talk show the most popular tv programs in 2024 ? What benefit does Demi Moore get from the taking the substance ? How are Demi Moore and Sue the same character ? Why doesn’t social media exist in this film ?
The answer to all of these is because the Fargeat is more interested in cheap references to horror movies of the past than anything else. Ironically the film does in fact lack substance.
I recently saw a critic describe the Substance as the Sue version of a David Cronenberg film which is a pretty spot on description.
Agreed. There are some great films in there alongside some dismal ones.
Pretty poor considering the last 20 years of film
The first part of Hurt Locker is good, the Guy Pearce scene, and it quickly goes downhill after that before becoming unintentionally hilarious.
Departed isn’t in Scorsese’s top 5 for me. It was entertaining but my god Wagkberg and DiCaprio suck. The films you listed seem grandiose, (successful) Oscar bait. LOTR is the only keeper in that bunch.
Argo was entertaining even though the real mission wasn’t anywhere near as sexy and dangerous. Affleck is a very good director (mediocre actor). I also liked CODA.
Thank feck Gravity didn’t win anything, wow, what a dumb fecking movie that was! I liked La La Land though.
Mostly same opinion.
Good answer
Yes and yes. Crash is stunningly bad with some laughable acting. The worst best picture winner I can think of.
I think it was the Academy making amends to Scorsese, a career achievement award.
She killed her and the movie’s chances of winning anything. Anora is fun.
It didn’t feel at all like a Scorsese movie, although its miles better than his recent two.
Yeah, it's not a bad watch if you turn off your brain and not try to make sense of it. The director and many critics see it as something deeper than its trashy and mindless nature. When you dissect it, its content is very surface level and any interesting ideas are buried in the dumb script and sacrificed for the director to show off. Fargeat doesn't seem like a good writer. If anyone has seen her first film, it's not a great film but has a much simpler idea and script and is better than The Substance because of it.
I disagree with just about everything you wrote, but even so it wasn't like it was up againt great films as far as I am concerned. Looking at the BP nominees from that year it's hard to argue they didn't pick the right winner.
It did win a ton if Oscars though, Best Director included. I think it's a great cinematic achievement, and it was a brilliant watch in the cinema. I would love to see it again in IMAX.
Parasite and Birdman stand out as my favourites out of that. But I’m surprised at just how many I’ve not seen. Special mention to the hurt locker and moonlight for being painfully bad
Pretty poor considering the last 20 years of film
Did it? feck. Maybe I was in jail that year and don’t watch the broadcast. Two words for how bad that movie is: George Clooney!!
As a body horror about self hatred it’s fine. It’s worth watching for Demi Moore great performance.
But it has nothing to say on the modern world. Why is a fitness show and New Years Eve talk show the most popular tv programs in 2024 ? What benefit does Demi Moore get from the taking the substance ? How are Demi Moore and Sue the same character ? Why doesn’t social media exist in this film ?
The answer to all of these is because the Fargeat is more interested in cheap references to horror movies of the past than anything else. Ironically the film does in fact lack substance.
I recently saw a critic describe the Substance as the Sue version of a David Cronenberg film which is a pretty spot on description.
it's 2024 and you have to call a phone number to order something (instead of, you know, the internet) and it doesn't get delivered to you, you have to go and collect it at some random shit hole of a place. ok
and the process of actually fecking injecting yourself and doing complex surgical procedures on yourself and just uhh leave a body in totally unsterile locations for a week is just for you to expect to know how to do. i know it's not meant to be taken completely seriously but there is a limit.
the main issue is as you say, there is literally no reason to take the substance if you don't get to enjoy, feel and experience the benefits of your younger self. all the older version does is wake up after 7 days and realise your shitty younger version is fecking you over. but yep let's keep doing it... for reasons.
imagine becoming a hot, young version of yourself and all you want to do is go back into doing lame ass fitness videos? i thought the idea of demi's character doing lame ass fitness videos was that this was a once oscar winning actress having to resort to this kind of shit z grade celeb stuff. but i guess not?
https://letterboxd.com/horrorkin/film/the-substance/
As a body horror about self hatred it’s fine. It’s worth watching for Demi Moore great performance.
But it has nothing to say on the modern world. Why is a fitness show and New Years Eve talk show the most popular tv programs in 2024 ? What benefit does Demi Moore get from the taking the substance ? How are Demi Moore and Sue the same character ? Why doesn’t social media exist in this film ?
The answer to all of these is because the Fargeat is more interested in cheap references to horror movies of the past than anything else. Ironically the film does in fact lack substance.
I recently saw a critic describe the Substance as the Sue version of a David Cronenberg film which is a pretty spot on description.
this was a fun read about the substance. I didn’t mind it as a theatre experience. but that’s about it. the movie felt very surface level but that’s fine as long as one felt entertained.
The film has a habit of attempting to subvert the genre but doing so in really stupid ways.
How someone can make a film which includes the themes of beauty standards in 2024 and not mention the internet is maddening.
Yep I rarely care about plot holes but when it
becomes clear Demi Moore and Margaret Qualley aren’t the same person everything completely breaks. It’s such a strange move and I’ve not seen anyone ask Fargeat why she did this. Tbh a lot of people don’t realise Moore gets no benefit from the substance.
Its ideas of youth are so shallow and are only interested in the themes of beauty/fear of looking old. I think there’s a solid argument to be made it has a very low opinion of woman. It certainly isn’t even a mildly good piece of feminist cinema.
Fargeat has said in interviews this is the reason but you’re right it’s undercut by the fact Margaret Qualley continues to do the fitness show. Another giant gap which the audience is expected to not pick up on. Plus for all the struggles of Moore character she still lives in an enormous apartment and the fitness show is seemingly the most watched show on Earth.
Imo the problem is Fargeat wants the ass and tits but also the serious message. Which is possible(Showgirls)but it takes skill and running the risk that most people might miss the point (Again Showgirls). The Substance is far too busy with its references and gore to the make the audience question anything larger.
I think the film critical praise shows people are understandably caving something other than typical mainstream cinema but have ended up massively over praising an entertaining but ultimately empty movie.
Thanks. Enjoyed reading the review and agree with a lot of it and your post.
I still think Demi Moore should win the Oscar as she carries the film and makes it at lot of fun to watch.
The casters are the genious behind some of these Oscar's movie. How they cast a practically unknown actors and somehow they made the Oscar.
We've had wash out actors / actresses and some obscure talent somehow made a movie and gets nominated for Oscars. Not that they dont earnt it but God what an eye for talent they are
We've had wash out actors / actresses and some obscure talent somehow made a movie and gets nominated for Oscars. Not that they dont earnt it but God what an eye for talent they are
Yeah after seeing a couple of Fargeat interviews I don't really want it to win. Moore, sure, she's great, but Fargeat seems to have an overinflated sense of self-importance that is grating. She's French, basically.
The Substance is an entertaining movie that I'd recommend to watch, but IMO it's clearly out of its depth in a BP award race. It's not really ambitious from the storytelling point so I didn't mind some of its flaws as I assumed were more genre-based: the horror film genre tends to be small, self-contained stories where contact with the outside world is diminished in order to keep the focus on the story and its inner logic (as opposed to a broader, outsider logic). If you assume she was just another star and not THE star and we are only watching the world from her POV as a likable but ultimately self oriented character, the suspension of disbelief remains unaltered as her actions/decisions are more understandable.
Having said that, as a viewer you usually don't have to do so many efforts for a really great film. That's why I find the movie to be a verry good gore/horror film (while finding the last 30 minutes unnecessary) but ultimately failing short of being a great, BP award worthy movie.
BTW I got to watch Conclave and liked it a lot so at least there's one film I could be rooting for. The movie is really solid overall with great acting, photography and sound in service of an interesting story with lots of good plot twists. It's major plot twist though is not really properly revealed but only hinted at, which I still can't decide if it works for or against the movie. Another nitpick would be that it suffers from the Spotlight problem of being really solid but not having a single moment or scene that elevates the movie and makes it iconic. The 2-3 speeches intended to do that are good but not good enough to serve that purpose.
Having said that, as a viewer you usually don't have to do so many efforts for a really great film. That's why I find the movie to be a verry good gore/horror film (while finding the last 30 minutes unnecessary) but ultimately failing short of being a great, BP award worthy movie.
BTW I got to watch Conclave and liked it a lot so at least there's one film I could be rooting for. The movie is really solid overall with great acting, photography and sound in service of an interesting story with lots of good plot twists. It's major plot twist though is not really properly revealed but only hinted at, which I still can't decide if it works for or against the movie. Another nitpick would be that it suffers from the Spotlight problem of being really solid but not having a single moment or scene that elevates the movie and makes it iconic. The 2-3 speeches intended to do that are good but not good enough to serve that purpose.
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Isn't the whole point of The Substance that Demi Moores character is so obsessed with fame, image, looks, popularity, that when she starts to lose it she can't see the wood for the trees and goes down the spiral of self abuse per se. It's not subtle movie making but it's a blast.
Only seen half of the nominees but from the ones listed Conclave is my favourite but its not a film I would revisit soon.
Perhaps Anora or Nickel Boys are better
Only seen half of the nominees but from the ones listed Conclave is my favourite but its not a film I would revisit soon.
Perhaps Anora or Nickel Boys are better
Chomsky pretty much says the same about french intellectuals.
Although I didn’t rate it highly The Brutalist should probably win the best picture Oscar. It’s the only film nominated that is possibly going to be remembered in a decade time.
Just finished Emilia Perez. What a clusterfeck. It wasn't a bad movie to be fair, solid 6 on merit, but far from Oscar quality.
Zoe Zaldana acting for me is too tiring, she looks uninspiring and lacking proper motivation. Was it money? Was it fear of saying no? She just looks tired all movie
Karla Sofia wasnt too inspiring for me. Her acting is wooden and looks awkward.
Selena who?
Oh well. Brutalist next.
Zoe Zaldana acting for me is too tiring, she looks uninspiring and lacking proper motivation. Was it money? Was it fear of saying no? She just looks tired all movie
Karla Sofia wasnt too inspiring for me. Her acting is wooden and looks awkward.
Selena who?
Oh well. Brutalist next.
I mean, she's meant to look tired. It's one of the few things they got right in the film - in a film that got so, so much wrong.
She's having her dream job helping others, virtually endless bankroll, 12 Mio on her own personal account, there's no visible clash with Emilia up to then, I think she should showcase abit more emotion along the movie. She's living a good life
Incredible
Watched 7 of the 10 Best Picture nominees now. Have Emelia Perez, A Complete Unknown and I'm Still Here left. Will be able to watch the first two this week but the last I won't.
I've liked most of them. My favourites being Conclave, Anora, Dune: 2 and Wicked. My analysis so far says Anora will win.
I've liked most of them. My favourites being Conclave, Anora, Dune: 2 and Wicked. My analysis so far says Anora will win.
I know it's not the Oscars tonight but wow Jane Fonda's speech at the SAG awards was some powerful stuff just now.
Are you still doing movie reviews on YouTube? How’s that going?
A Complete Unknown is the safe choice for the Academy. Haven’t seen it but I can see it winning.
Seriously, apart from the people directly involved, i.e. the film industry itself, does anyone really care a flying feck about the Oscars? Same with the BAFTAs, isn't it just the film industry patting each other on the back.
Just seen Brutalist. Didnt like what i saw. Sure Broody is a great actor but the movie has no tangible substance for me. What was it? Redemption?
Conclave took the ensemble SAG, and it has the momentum going into the final stretch. It was a very good movie, and it feels very compatible with the Academy. Definitely a strong contender now.