what if we dropped to 4th and finished there?
He could have replaced them with better players.
Mikhitaryan, Lindelof and Pogba cost us 200 million quid.
You say we are second, well unless this lot decide to motivate themselves before they go off on holiday or the World Cup, we won't be for long. The players need to buck their ideas up, but the manager also need to take the blame sometimes. He is great at telling us how great he has been, but then blames the players for absolutely everything when it all goes wrong. Am I optimistic, at times I have been, but that is dwindling.
People have been saying it’s exagerated to me for years but I called his second Chelsea stint while others were proclaiming his team would be unbeaten for years.
He’s not a long term manager. He’s doing the same thing here now IMO
Does anyone disageee with any of the following;
We are some ways away from competing with Man city. Money isn’t an excuse, we are both absolutely loaded.
City, liverpool and spurs all play significantly more attractive football than us.
Our manager would rather avoid defeat at all costs than throw caution to the wind and go for a result from the 1st minute.
We are right to be concerned and right to wonder if the man in charge is the correct person to take us back to the top.
We are some ways away from competing with Man city. Money isn’t an excuse, we are both absolutely loaded.
City, liverpool and spurs all play significantly more attractive football than us.
Our manager would rather avoid defeat at all costs than throw caution to the wind and go for a result from the 1st minute.
We are right to be concerned and right to wonder if the man in charge is the correct person to take us back to the top.
I prefer when you wum about identity politics...
Good post. I don't understand why people read so much into finishing 2nd. History shows that league position doesn't necessarily mean we should expect good things the following year. Liverpool and Spurs are both below us in the table yet they play better football and are probably in a better position to challenge for a title next year (moreso Liverpool). I think they're a GK, CB and DM away from challenging City. They are closer to them than we are but sure, let's celebrate 2nd place.
Yeah, I do worry about that. Generally he doesn't stay beyond a third season, and he's sometimes seemed unsettled here to the point where I struggle to see him staying beyond a year or two. Although it can also be said that there are very few long-term managers now, and that we just need to adapt to a model where we'll be making regular managerial changes. Chelsea do that and despite their volatility from season to season it has generally allowed them to still be successful.
With Liverpool and Spurs it’s not just about attractive football, it’s the way they are capable of going toe to toe with top teams and out-play them. Our results against big teams have been pretty damn good but it’s invariably been a smash and grab. And Manchester United shouldn’t be playing like under-dogs as often as we do under Mourinho.
I cba to go through all of that, people know my views and get sick of reading them. But that pogba bit is especially galling. “The manager agrees with me” and the player needs to “pull his socks up”. Mourinho got him in for 100 MILLION pounds. He should be winning us points regularly. That is a massive red flag that is not picked on enough. If I went into my work and spent the most money any company had ever spent on a new employee I then don’t get to a year later say “well maybe he should work harder”
Also Spurs literally moved into a new stadium this year whereas Liverpool have lost their best player (considered at the start of the year) and have also spent less than they have recouped. We SHOULD be ahead of these teamsz
Can't disagree with any of that, the other aspect I would add is that the manager doesn't seem to create the best atmosphere in the dressing room with a lot of fearful players and finger-pointing going on.
At this point given the amount we've spend I can't see Mourinho progressing us to being back to being a top team again. Ah well, I think Mourinho will be off next summer I suppose
Totally agree with you re: Pogba, he's just not been good enough and we often seem to be wearing our rose tinted spectacles.
Hardly, they act as if it was not every other game.
And not just that, but (in the case of Spurs especially) there's the difference in expectation due to what both clubs have tended to achieve, and the differences in resources between the two clubs.
Spurs in general don't have the ability to compete financially with the other top five clubs in England, and so have had to invest shrewdly without spending anywhere near the same amount as their competitors. We've spent absurd amounts on players whose returns have been meddling; Di Maria disappointed, Pogba's enigmatic and has too many hot and cold flashes, and while Lukaku's been good overall (I'd argue) his performances haven't been quite to the level of the very best strikers in the league. Our muted reactions to finishing second have been because financially it's pretty much where we should be, and even though Mourinho develops credit for improving us and getting us to that level, he's mostly just doing the bare minimum. Spurs by all rights should be about 6th, closer to the rest of the pack than the top of the table. The fact they're consistently competing with those teams is impressive in itself.
Yeah it sure was Blind, Shaw and Darmian that lost us the game today
I think Jose’s signings have been generally decent, but the ones playing today were absolutely no better than the players signed by his predecessors. The cluelessness and lack of being arsed was universal.
I’m actually looking forward to the start of next season to see what effect (positive I hope!) his summer signings have. Though part of me believes this is as good as it’s going to get.
Interesting how all of the "keep Jose" people say that if we get an attack minded coach, we'll go down the table.
What if we got one and did better (whether points, position or trophies)?
I'm not saying Jose should go (or stay atm) but sometimes the grass CAN BE greener on the other side? If winning the occasional cup and playing generally dour football is what keeping Jose would mean, I'd flip.
Also feck being optimistic when I have to go to work tomorrow and get a load of shit off a load of city fans who I suspect (although can not prove) didn’t give a shit about the club until about seven years ago. feck being optimistic when I have to listen to Chris from finance going on about “the best team in Manchester” when I can’t say anything back because he’s just had three months off with stress and if I say anything I think he might kill himself. feck being optimistic when Karen “the massive Geordie” has to tell me how shit we are when she couldn’t identify Alan Shearer out of a line up of other sad middle age balding Geordie pricks.
Yes, that's a fair point.
Back when we used to laugh at Arsenal Mania, there was a poster on there that used to say, in defense of Wenger “Arsenal are 88th out of all the teams in England. If we aren’t doing well then what does that say for the other teams” and stuff along those lines.
I really do lament that those kinds of lines are trotted out on here now, when somehow the 60 odd clubs in the lower leagues are relevant to us somehow.
Cult of the manager.
I really do lament that those kinds of lines are trotted out on here now, when somehow the 60 odd clubs in the lower leagues are relevant to us somehow.
Cult of the manager.
I've got no idea who the alternative manager could be but we seem to have got to a stage where we want to stick because flipping hasn't worked so far.
Its got nothing to do with 'keep Jose'. The reality is that the only manager that plays on the front foot in every game and gets more points than Mourinho regularly is Pep Guardiola.
Managers like Sarri and Tuchel are a big risk because they are not proven at the highest level.
If you want a manager to get the same results as Mourinho or better, you'll probably have to go for Simeone, Aleggri, Conte. All of those are not particularly attacking managers.
The only attacking option I see is Zidane.
Just say they're level with Sunderland on titles.
I'm not seeing those kind of posts at all.
With the players we have, attack-minded football would see us competing for the league. There’s no way that without our personnel, we should be so impotent against the worst side in the league. This game and Seville are just two examples of where we’ve embarrassed ourselves at OT by playing league two calibre football in games where we should be storming at the gates. Jose has bought good players and wasted them.
Oh come on Pogue, it wasn't smash and grad all the time.
It’s LITERALLY the first post in the thread.
Any attack minded coach would see us competing for the league or just certain ones?
I do feel for you mate. Thankfully there aren’t any city fans where I’m from, so the most I have to deal with is fans of other clubs using City’s win as a stick to beat United with. My strength goes out to all who have to deal with actual city fans.
I'm optimistic. Highest points total in a while, opportunity to finish 2nd, and potential to improve next season under a manager who's recently demonstrated his ability to win the league. Plus it's not been all dour football.
I think we will see a good leap once we get competent fullbacks on both sides that can stretch the field for our forwards. And a right winger probably.
I think we will see a good leap once we get competent fullbacks on both sides that can stretch the field for our forwards. And a right winger probably.
Sorry.
I mean then there aren't a lot of those around.
And rightly there shouldn’t be. It’s an absolutely ludicrous line to trot out
As above, I know an alternative isn't easy (or us or other clubs would have bagged him). I'm just not sure playing safe is the way to go, especially if it's based on a Europa Cup win (against poor opposition and when we were one blunder (from the opposition) of going out in the Semis).
I think this is the worse bit for me at the moment... I'm not convinced Jose is the right man for us but can't see a decent alternative. The board (and sponsors?) won't allow a risk to be taken so for example, a Dyche (and giving him time) are a no no, but if it has to be a "name" then that drastically reduces the numbers of options especially as most are taken.
I think we'll keep Jose even if we don't win the cup or come 2nd but I think next season is his last chance.
(PS. Simeone if he brings defensive nous with him is probably choice)
I cannot believe that anyone who pays to go there each week can be optomisitic. Maybe if you're sat at home, with one eye on your phone and £50 in your back pocket.
So with Pogba it's not only Jose's fault or?
Agree regarding his 1st Chelsea stint.
However, his 3rd season at Real for Real's standards was clearly catastrophic.
Lost out on the league by Christmas. Embarrassing CDR loss vs Atletico. CL disappointment. Numerous fights with the players.
It was awful.
100% agree.
I'm an optimist. Till yesterday I thought we would still catch up to city. Being an optimist has nothing to do with supporting Mourinho all the time. Actually, you should be even more optimistic about our chances with a new manager
Second mostly.