Optimism

Member 5225

Guest
I am firmly in the optimist camp.

I am delighted we finally have a worthy world-class successor to SAF.
Our team is literally better than 90 other English league teams, out of 91 teams.

For all the fanfare of Liverpool, Spurs and the like, we are still AHEAD of them.

There are so many positives from this season, our club is moving in the right direction.
I can't be the only one here that thinks this way, surely?
 
Member 5225 said:
I am firmly in the optimist camp.

I am delighted we finally have a worthy world-class successor to SAF.
Our team is literally better than 90 other English league teams, out of 91 teams.

For all the fanfare of Liverpool, Spurs and the like, we are still AHEAD of them.

There are so many positives from this season, our club is moving in the right direction.
I can't be the only one here that thinks this way, surely?
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#tumbleweed.
 
We are literally 2nd in the table!
I am not sure what some people want. Win or bust?
Ofcourse we all want to win, but considering our predicament since SAF, I'm glad we are looking up (at 1st) rather than trying to break into top4, etc etc.
 
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I almost want us to get a flashy attack minded young manager in that plays sexy football for a season.
Everyone applauding his style and we end up 7th (see likes of Arsenal as an example).

Folks on here would be yearning for a more 'boring' results oriented manager. There is no winning.
People act as if SAF's team didn't grind out boring victories and draws...
 
Completely agree, we're much better than we have been in previous seasons, losing a nothing match to West brom doesn't change that.
We're second in the league and close to confirming champions league football for a second season in a row (first time since Fergie) and our recruitment overall has been good.
I do find it strange how the sky is falling on here this afternoon because we lost.
We need to keep going next season though, Jose can't afford to not keep improving us.
 
Just lost to the bottom team who only picked up 1 point away from home this year until today, the team showed nothing in terms of passion, fight, will or determination to beat WBA, the second most disappointing performance of the season (home to Sevilla being no1)
 
There is not a lot to be optimistic about after days like today. Today is a very sad day. We surrendered the league in the worst possible way. Kudos to you for keeping your head up tho.
 
paulscholes18 said:
Just lost to the bottom team who only picked up 1 point away from home this year until today, the team showed nothing in terms of passion, fight, will or determination to beat WBA, the second most disappointing performance of the season (home to Sevilla being no1)
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Just one game means nothing, I am talking about the overall direction the club. People on here as if we are mid-table!
 
Member 5225 said:
I am firmly in the optimist camp.

I am delighted we finally have a worthy world-class successor to SAF.
Our team is literally better than 90 other English league teams, out of 91 teams.

For all the fanfare of Liverpool, Spurs and the like, we are still AHEAD of them.

There are so many positives from this season, our club is moving in the right direction.
I can't be the only one here that thinks this way, surely?
Click to expand...

Being better than teams in the English league? So should Arsenal be proud that they are also better than what 84 teams in the English league? Ridiculous. Liverpool have a decent shot at winning the CL. I would take their season over ours any time. 2nd to 4th is all the same to me. And to celebrate being ahead of Spurs?

Our club is moving in circles. With the amount of money we've spent you or I could lead United to a top half finish. It is not acceptable and this sort of attitude that you are showing is what got clubs like Arsenal where they are now. Every season they would be proud of their team and look where they are now. We need to demand more.
 
I'm optimistic for now. I've seen progression and the mess LVG and Moyes left behind can't be underestimated. We're better than we were.

That being said, at times we've been proper shit. Today included. If that continues with the frequency it has after another summer of rebuilding then Mourinho has to go. I do think we'll improve again next year and be properly competitive though.
 
shamans said:
Being better than teams in the English league? So should Arsenal be proud that they are also better than what 84 teams in the English league? Ridiculous. Liverpool have a decent shot at winning the CL. I would take their season over ours any time. 2nd to 4th is all the same to me. And to celebrate being ahead of Spurs?

Our club is moving in circles. With the amount of money we've spent you or I could lead United to a top half finish. It is not acceptable and this sort of attitude that you are showing is what got clubs like Arsenal where they are now. Every season they would be proud of their team and look where they are now. We need to demand more.
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We are literally 2nd. The ONLY team in the whole of England that have done better than us is Man City. Let's put it into perspective here...
 
Surely people aren't questioning our progress to-date....perhaps only annoyed at the speed of the progression.
 
there's a very fine line between optimism and delusion

He's gotten us to a good point in terms of progress but if you think Jose is going to get us playing fast attacking football you are in the deluded camp.

He'll keep us in the CL spots but that's the most we can expect - that's as optimistic I can be shy of us signing a couple of world class attackers who do it all.
 
paulscholes18 said:
Just lost to the bottom team who only picked up 1 point away from home this year until today, the team showed nothing in terms of passion, fight, will or determination to beat WBA, the second most disappointing performance of the season (home to Sevilla being no1)
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In a game that is essentially a dead rubber. And yet we are still 4 points ahead of Spurs and ahead of Pool with a game in hand (who managed a total of 1 point against West Brom this season). Context.
 
I'm optimistic by nature but days like today are terrible by all possible means.
 
shamans said:
Yes and we're also the ONLY team behind City who has spend the amount of money we have spent.
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Wait wait, slow down. So now a different discussion.
Money = success?

Did we start from the same baseline? (this is obviously a subjective discussion which will never be agreed upon).
 
You're not the only one @Paz There's quite a few of us out there who are optimistic and happy with the direction we're going in under Mourinho. We've had a decent season which would be even better if we win the FA Cup. I still see us finishing 2nd on around 80+ points and that of course would be our highest finish since Fergie retired. Not bad at all if you ask me.
 
Art Vandelay said:
I'm optimistic for now. I've seen progression and the mess LVG and Moyes left behind can't be underestimated. We're better than we were.

That being said, at times we've been proper shit. Today included. If that continues with the frequency it has after another summer of rebuilding then Mourinho has to go. I do think we'll improve again next year and be properly competitive though.
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Agree with this.

FA Cup an 2nd place would be a decent season, progress on last season, but I'd have liked there to have been more progress. There has to be a proper title challenge next season, and a better run in Europe.

2nd is a must in the 5 remaining games. I'd hate for Liverpool to finish ahead of us. I hope they put all their eggs in the Champions League basket (and then fail to win it, obvs.) but mostly I hope we just win all our remaining games.
 
Member 5225 said:
I am firmly in the optimist camp.

I am delighted we finally have a worthy world-class successor to SAF.
Our team is literally better than 90 other English league teams, out of 91 teams.

For all the fanfare of Liverpool, Spurs and the like, we are still AHEAD of them.

There are so many positives from this season, our club is moving in the right direction.
I can't be the only one here that thinks this way, surely?
Click to expand...
I agree. The fact that we're ahead of everyone bar City, despite having so much more obvious room for improvement than the teams around us, is a promising sign for next season.
 
There are reasons to be optimistic but I am worried about our inconsistency in attacking 3rd which doesn't look like getting sorted, especially against weak oppositions who seat back. I am also worried about mentality of many of our players. Mourinho is right in saying we complicated the play too much in first half. Probably some players had won this match already in their mind and we can't win title if players don't change that mentality and don't go out to work 100% no matter who the opposition is.
 
As always the truth is somewhere in between. We are doing well but it would be delusion to be completely happy with everything that’s going on with the team right now, there’s a lot that just isn’t sitting right.
 
Member 5225 said:
I almost want us to get a flashy attack minded young manager in that plays sexy football for a season.
Everyone applauding his style and we end up 7th (see likes of Arsenal as an example).

Folks on here would be yearning for a more 'boring' results oriented manager. There is no winning.
People act as if SAF's team didn't grind out boring victories and draws...
Click to expand...

Well yes, they did, but the difference was that SAF while here built about four or five world class sides and made us by far the most dominant club in the country after years of no success. He earned the ability to be able to sometimes produce poor performances and get away with it. Mourinho, while having demonstrated improvement, hasn't really earned that yet because he's got nowhere near the same pedigree within the club that Fergie had.
 
Where would we be in the table in pretty much almost every other season during another Premier League campaign?
 
Member 5225 said:
Wait wait, slow down. So now a different discussion.
Money = success?

Did we start from the same baseline? (this is obviously a subjective discussion which will never be agreed upon).
Click to expand...

Dude, you are obviously fixated on the fact that we are second as if it is some sort of trophy so I am going to let you be optimistic and deluded and have fun. For the majority of us on here, we want to win trophies and we want to see a team capable of winning trophies. It's not like we fought for titles and ended up second.

Also, once again, Arsenal recently finished second. Liverpool finished second. Show me the progress then.
 
Cheesy said:
Well yes, they did, but the difference was that SAF while here built about four or five world class sides and made us by far the most dominant club in the country after years of no success. He earned the ability to be able to sometimes produce poor performances and get away with it. Mourinho, while having demonstrated improvement, hasn't really earned that yet because he's got nowhere near the same pedigree within the club that Fergie had.
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Sure, noted and agreed.

I still want to give Jose the benefit of the doubt. Still a final batch of players that are not 'his' i.e. Blind, Shaw, Darmian, etc etc
 
shamans said:
Dude, you are obviously fixated on the fact that we are second as if it is some sort of trophy so I am going to let you be optimistic and deluded and have fun. For the majority of us on here, we want to win trophies and we want to see a team capable of winning trophies. It's not like we fought for titles and ended up second.

Also, once again, Arsenal recently finished second. Liverpool finished second. Show me the progress then.
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Nope - I want titles perhaps more than you.
I am merely stating the coldest of all facts for a football club: league position.
Club decisions, direction, hiring/firings, etc are made on this stat. So it's hardly an arbitrary piece of information.
 
Member 5225 said:
Sure, noted and agreed.

I still want to give Jose the benefit of the doubt. Still a final batch of players that are not 'his' i.e. Blind, Shaw, Darmian, etc etc
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This seems quite tenuous though. If Mourinho doesn't rate those players then he has the resources to sell them and replace them with new ones. And it probably harks to one of the reasons people doubt Mourinho: as a manager, one of his defining traits when at his best was his ability to go into clubs and use what he had to its fullest potential, making an immediate impact.
 
We may have been knocked out of the Champions League having surrendered to Sevilla with four shots over two legs.

We may have our most expensive player of all time playing awful for months. (Up until this year literally the most expensive player of all time)

We may have DDG having more shots against him than ever before under Ferguson.

We may have spent close to 200 million on attacking players and look offensively clueless.

We may have our most promising young players (Shaw, Rashford and Martial) rumoured to be wanting to leave the club.

We may have a manager that consistently proves to be catastrophic in his third year.

We may have seen signings that as of now rival LVG for wasted money.

But at least we’re second.
 
Cheesy said:
This seems quite tenuous though. If Mourinho doesn't rate those players then he has the resources to sell them and replace them with new ones. And it probably harks to one of the reasons people doubt Mourinho: as a manager, one of his defining traits when at his best was his ability to go into clubs and use what he had to its fullest potential, making an immediate impact.
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Yes, fair point.
I think he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
i.e. if he bins players instantly people think 'he's not even giving them a chance or assessing them' if he does what he has done then 'if he didn't want them, he should've just binned them'.
 
Member 5225 said:
Yes, fair point.
I think he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
i.e. if he bins players instantly people think 'he's not even giving them a chance or assessing them' if he does what he has done then 'if he didn't want them, he should've just binned them'.
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He's not damned at all if it works
 
Wumminator said:
We may have been knocked out of the Champions League having surrendered to Sevilla with four shots over two legs.

We may have our most expensive player of all time playing awful for months. (Up until this year literally the most expensive player of all time)

We may have DDG having more shots against him than ever before under Ferguson.

We may have spent close to 200 million on attacking players and look offensively clueless.

We may have our most promising young players (Shaw, Rashford and Martial) rumoured to be wanting to leave the club.

We may have a manager that consistently proves to be catastrophic in his third year.

But at least we’re second.
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This is slightly exaggerated, to be fair. His third season at Chelsea in his first stint was worse than the two previous years but still yielded an FA Cup and League Cup. His third season at Real Madrid was poor but probably not quite to the point where it could be called catastrophic. Only really his third season at his second stint at Chelsea can be seen in that way, I'd argue. Although I am concerned that while we've improved, Mourinho's not really been able to instantly elevate us to a title winning level in the way he did with Chelsea during his first stint there when he was at his managerial peak.
 
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