Ole Sack Watch

Should we replace the manager ?

  • Yes - Its time to make a change

    Votes: 3,004 87.8%

  • No - Give him more time

    Votes: 449 13.1%
  • Total voters
    3,423
  • Poll closed .
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Rusholme Ruffian said:
Thank goodness you are here to impart truth and wisdom to 'us lot'.

For the record, I remember you being absolutely rabid in shutting down ANY criticism of Ole in his first year or two - you were like a dog with a fecking bone. And that criticism turned out to be completely valid - all of Ole's flaws are still there for all to see. So maybe you don't know quite as much as you think you do.
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Oh that makes sense, I was kind of getting the vibe from his posts he doesn't actually want Ole gone so he's finding any excuse to discredit managers who actually have a chance of being hired here.

Just saw his list of replacements and they're all unattainable, yup, he just wants any excuse to.keep ole as long as possible
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Are you high? Every appointment bar Ole (who you've loved) has been literally the opposite :lol:

• Moyes had 750 ish games under his belt.
• LVG had 800 ish games.
• Mourinho had 765 ish.
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There was nothing wrong with Ole's first couple of seasons, there was progress.

Moyes wasn't ready for the step up.
LVG was 20 years past his best.
Mourinho was 5 years past his best.
Ole can't hack it at the top.

They were all gambles and someone like Ten Hag or Potter is the exact same gamble but this time labeled "progressive" instead.
 
Kaos said:
Out of that list the only one realistically attainable would be Poch, a manager who couldn't even win the French league with PSG.
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Mancini is quite a ridiculous pick too, a man whose last success at club level was before SAF retired.
 
Flytan said:
Oh that makes sense, I was kind of getting the vibe from his posts he doesn't actually want Ole gone so he's finding any excuse to discredit managers who actually have a chance of being hired here.

Just saw his list of replacements and they're all unattainable, yup, he just wants any excuse to.keep ole as long as possible
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:lol: Please, have a word with yourself, I've been saying Ole should have gone after the league cup game, nothing has changed. If we're going to appoint a new manager then get it right instead of fecking it up again.
 
crossy1686 said:
I've listed mine previously:
1. Mancini
2. Conte
3. Zidane
4. Pochettino
5. Bielsa

Obviously this is in a ideal world and this is purely on who I feel would be the best fit or get the best out of the squad.
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Mancini isn't available before next November. Conte is gone, Zidane isn't interested and Bielsa is a no-go.

So that's Poch and he isn't getting sacked now. I would like Klopp to take us over doesn't mean it will happen. We just have to go with the best available now.
 
crossy1686 said:
There was nothing wrong with Ole's first couple of seasons, there was progress.

Moyes wasn't ready for the step up.
LVG was 20 years past his best.
Mourinho was 5 years past his best.
Ole can't hack it at the top.

They were all gambles and someone like Ten Hag or Potter is the exact same gamble but this time labeled "progressive" instead.
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Ah so now the amount of games means nothing? In fact it's possibly a hindrance?

Stay on track, you're all over the shop.
 
Kaos said:
Out of that list the only one realistically attainable would be Poch, a manager who couldn't even win the French league with PSG.
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Maybe so, but at least you would hope he's learned something from managing at that level now. You don't get many opportunities at the top and people are usually keen to not repeat the same mistakes twice.
 
crossy1686 said:
Maybe I don't but at least I'm more than open to admitting I was wrong about Ole, despite the progress we made int he first few years under him.
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Progress, what progress?! We actually won trophies under LVG and Mourinho. Within months of being given the job permanently Ole took us on our worst run for 60 years. Any good spell has been matched with an awful spell. I'm sorry, but I don't see any progress at all on the field.

crossy1686 said:
And if you can remember what I wrote on here a couple of years ago, you should probably get out more.
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Believe me it was hard to forget - you were like a man possessed, attempting to rebut every single negative comment - must have run into the hundreds some days.
 
bond19821982 said:
Mancini isn't available before next November. Conte is gone, Zidane isn't interested and Bielsa is a no-go.

So that's Poch and he isn't getting sacked now. I would like Klopp to take us over doesn't mean it will happen. We just have to go with the best available now.
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Which is why we should wait until the end of the season before anything. Bring a caretaker in now if necessary but lets see who comes available in the summer.
 
crossy1686 said:
:lol: Please, have a word with yourself, I've been saying Ole should have gone after the league cup game, nothing has changed. If we're going to appoint a new manager then get it right instead of fecking it up again.
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If you've been saying it then why are the only people you want to replace him with impossible to get? Must not he thinking very hard.

Also do you not know "progressive" in in reference to his football? Of course he's a risk. Hiring any manager is a risk outside of when Pep signed with City. Even Klopp was questioned
 
Idxomer said:
Mancini is quite a ridiculous pick too, a man whose last success at club level was before SAF retired.
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I don't think Mancini is necessarily a bad shout, he's clearly a very good manager that's done a remarkable job with Italy, but he's not going anywhere before the next world cup, so its an unrealistic choice irrespective about what you think of him.
 
crossy1686 said:
Well for a start to manage more than a couple of seasons at a level that's more competitive than the Dutch league, at a team where the budget isn't more than most of the other clubs combined, maybe in a system that isn't perfect crafted to ensure the manager succeeds and with VDS and Overmars doing all the recruitment a leg work for him. That's a good starting point.

I was happy Ole was appointed as interim, and I feel the unbeaten run of games earned him the right to give the following season a shot, turns out that was probably the wrong decision in hindsight.

If any of those clubs brought him in this summer they could kiss their respective titles good bye, with the possible exception of Bayern who have a total monopoly on their league.
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So with Ole - who stagnated at Molde and failed at Cardiff - you thought than a good run of 10 games (after that we turned to crap) was enough to earn him a shot, but with Ten Hag continuous success at Utrecht and Ajax, including CL semi - not enough to give a shot?
 
crossy1686 said:
:lol: Please, have a word with yourself, I've been saying Ole should have gone after the league cup game, nothing has changed. If we're going to appoint a new manager then get it right instead of fecking it up again.
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So Poch it is then considering he's the only one attainable in your list.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Ah so now the amount of games means nothing? In fact it's possibly a hindrance?

Stay on track, you're all over the shop.
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Sure, if you say so. My point is his experience is limited and it's only at Dutch level, unless we're counting Bayern reserves also. If he had done well at PL level with the same amount of games it's a different story.
 
Max_United said:
So with Ole - who stagnated at Molde and failed at Cardiff - you thought than a good run of 10 games (after that we turned to crap) was enough to earn him a shot, but with Ten Hag continuous success at Utrecht and Ajax, including CL semi - not enough to give a shot?
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Why would we make the same mistake twice? Hey we were wrong once, let's just keep doing it yeah? Brilliant
 
crossy1686 said:
Which is why we should wait until the end of the season before anything. Bring a caretaker in now if necessary but lets see who comes available in the summer.
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Yes, that's what we are doing. I was talking about your point of ETH not being a right fit for us.
 
crossy1686 said:
Maybe so, but at least you would hope he's learned something from managing at that level now. You don't get many opportunities at the top and people are usually keen to not repeat the same mistakes twice.
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So you'd want to bring him in on the hope he's "learned" to be a better manager? Isn't that what we're hopelessly doing with Ole at the moment?
 
crossy1686 said:
I haven't said he hasn't won anything, I said he hasn't managed at a level that's even close to PL so his appointment would be a massive gamble. The same as appointing someone like Ole for example. It's nonsense and a gamble that the club doesn't have to take.
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What is nonsense is you bucketing Ten Hag as the same type of gamble as Ole.

One is clearly a good coach who has adapted to rebuilding sides and keeping them very competitive in the Champions League whilst the other relegated Cardiff and went into the abyss for 12 years.

Also the gamble is relative - there are very few options who we can viably go for. We aren't all saying "lets go for Ten Hag because he's the absolute best", but he should be a serious consideration because he's one of the best who would be attainable.
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
Progress, what progress?! We actually won trophies under LVG and Mourinho. Within months of being given the job permanently Ole took us on our worst run for 60 years. Any good spell has been matched with an awful spell. I'm sorry, but I don't see any progress at all on the field.


Believe me it was hard to forget - you were like a man possessed, attempting to rebut every single negative comment - must have run into the hundreds some days.
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Trophies aren't a sign of progress, Wigan won an FA cup and got relegated. I'm not going to debate where the club was when Ole took over and where we're at now, that's a different discussion.

These exaggerations are wild but I like that you remember them so vividly.
 
Max_United said:
So with Ole - who stagnated at Molde and failed at Cardiff - you thought than a good run of 10 games (after that we turned to crap) was enough to earn him a shot, but with Ten Hag continuous success at Utrecht and Ajax, including CL semi - not enough to give a shot?
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He is having an absolute mare in this thread, he absolutely wont stop and will just continue with other lame excuses.
 
crossy1686 said:
Sure, if you say so. My point is his experience is limited and it's only at Dutch level, unless we're counting Bayern reserves also. If he had done well at PL level with the same amount of games it's a different story.
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Using your criteria we would have never hired Fergie.
 
crossy1686 said:
Trophies aren't a sign of progress, Wigan won an FA cup and got relegated. I'm not going to debate where the club was when Ole took over and where we're at now, that's a different discussion.

These exaggerations are wild but I like that you remember them so vividly.
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We are in seventh after our worst start in history now.

Mourinho left us in 6 after sabotaging himself. Literally someone trying to get fired was doing a better job with like 200m less investment. How is that any progress?
 
Kaos said:
I don't think Mancini is necessarily a bad shout, he's clearly a very good manager that's done a remarkable job with Italy, but he's not going anywhere before the next world cup, so its an unrealistic choice irrespective about what you think of him.
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I believe that club and international management are very different.

Look at how good the Netherlands have been with LVG instantly after his comeback and the fact remains Mancini hasn't really had any success at club level since 2012, even failed with Zenit before taking the Italy job.
 
It’s also a bit mental because crossy believes Ole to be our best post-SAF manager and maintains he did a very good job for the first couple of seasons.
So by the same critieria you’d imagine a manager in a much stronger league than the Norwegian with excellent results in Europe and without a previous huge failure in the PL, would be high on his list.
 
crossy1686 said:
Trophies aren't a sign of progress, Wigan won an FA cup and got relegated. I'm not going to debate where the club was when Ole took over and where we're at now, that's a different discussion.

These exaggerations are wild but I like that you remember them so vividly.
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Keep up mate! It's not so much that winning a trophy is always a sign of progress, but when you go from winning 3 trophies in a couple of years to then winning nothing for the next 3 years it's hard to paint that as 'progress' - which is what you did.
 
Even if we hire another manager who isn't upto the job, sacking Ole is the right thing to do because he isn't up to managing Manchester United even after 3 years and he never will be. Some people seem to be conflating the 2 issues which is wrong.
 
nodlocnost2 said:
Even if we hire another manager who isn't upto the job, sacking Ole is the right thing to do because he isn't up to managing Manchester United even after 3 years and he never will be. Some people seem to be conflating the 2 issues which is wrong.
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That's some flawless planning there.
 
crossy1686 said:
Well for a start to manage more than a couple of seasons at a level that's more competitive than the Dutch league, at a team where the budget isn't more than most of the other clubs combined, maybe in a system that isn't perfect crafted to ensure the manager succeeds and with VDS and Overmars doing all the recruitment a leg work for him. That's a good starting point.

I was happy Ole was appointed as interim, and I feel the unbeaten run of games earned him the right to give the following season a shot, turns out that was probably the wrong decision in hindsight.

If any of those clubs brought him in this summer they could kiss their respective titles good bye, with the possible exception of Bayern who have a total monopoly on their league.
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A good club will give him a chance next and that door is probably then closed. He's done well enough in Europe to consider the possibility that he can do well with limited resources, but here he'll be spoilt for talent. Look at his team on paper and it'd probably get relegated from the PL under another manager. He genuinely has them looking a strong team in Europe and playing the likes of Dortmund off the park.

I kind of understand your point about them being the best in their league, but when he also does the business in Europe, where they are the small fish with a small budget, then it kills that argument.
 
Jippy said:
That's some flawless planning there.
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Nothing to do with planning. You don't wait to break up with a toxic girlfriend until you've found a new one , the same way you don't keep an incompetent employee on just because you haven't found a replacement.
 
Jippy said:
That's some flawless planning there.
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Every hire is always a risk, doesn't mean you bury your head in the sand and let this disaster continue just because something isn't guaranteed. It's how all other top clubs operate but for some reasons fans here have an issue with it
 
Desert Eagle said:
Nothing to do with planning. You don't wait to break up with a toxic girlfriend until you've found a new one , the same way you don't keep an incompetent employee on just because you haven't found a replacement.
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You'd just hope we'd have had enough time to scope out competent replacements.
Plus it can actually be easier to keep incompetent staff on while you're looking- better the devil you know and all that short-term. That seems to be where we are right now.
 
Flytan said:
Every hire is always a risk, doesn't mean you bury your head in the sand and let this disaster continue just because something isn't guaranteed. It's how all other top clubs operate but for some reasons fans here have an issue with it
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United fans are so afraid to get the manager wrong. What is the worst that can happen if Ten Hag fails here?
 
Flytan said:
Every hire is always a risk, doesn't mean you bury your head in the sand and let this disaster continue just because something isn't guaranteed. It's how all other top clubs operate but for some reasons fans here have an issue with it
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No I was reading it quite literally after having come in from a seven hour furniture shopping marathon. He just sounded overly blase about us hiring another dud.
 
Jippy said:
You'd just hope we'd have had enough time to scope out competent replacements.
Plus it can actually be easier to keep incompetent staff on while you're looking- better the devil you know and all that short-term. That seems to be where we are right now.
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Not if your incompetent staff are doing damage to the company while still under employment, unsettling other staff and putting you in a weaker position for the following financial year. Sometimes its better to hire temp staff or contractors on an interim basis while you source their permanent replacements.
 
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