Ole Sack Watch

[sewey89]

Would everyone advocating Conte take the 2.5 Jose years again if offered them now?

I wasn’t insinuating trophies weren’t important above. I just think that an FA Cup (for example) wouldn’t justify the potential damage that a Conte appointment would do in the long run

 

[Sviken]

There isn't a manager in the PL, La Liga, Bundesliga or Serie A who would be worse than Ole.

I agree with that. Even Mark Hughes would probably be an improvement on Ole. But the reality is that that in itself is not enough. We need managers that are capable of competing with Guardiola and Klopp, not simply replacing Ole. Because if the goal was simply an improvement on Ole, we could probably take Watford's manager and achieve that improvement.

 

[padzilla]

It's nonsense to suggest Conte wouldn't have been a drastic improvement over Ole Gunnar Southgate. We would have been guaranteed a first league challenge for the first time since 2013 but the board would rather have an easy life. As long as this board, and that includes Fergie sadly, are in charge of decisions I feel this club is doomed.

 

[Svartzonker]

This is Manchester United an elite club managed by an incompetent jobsworth. He needs to go, the sooner that happens the better. Scraping past the easiest group in CL history isn't saying much.

Easiest group in CL history? Are you twelve?

 

[largelyworried]

Would everyone advocating Conte take the 2.5 Jose years again if offered them now?

I wasn’t insinuating trophies weren’t important above. I just think that an FA Cup (for example) wouldn’t justify the potential damage that a Conte appointment would do in the long run

Again, massively overstating the actual truth. For example, Conte didn’t have his dressing rooms turn against him, which Jose did in his last four jobs. He was only sacked once, all his other big clubs wanted him to stay. Jose got sacked five times.

 

[the_cliff]

Would everyone advocating Conte take the 2.5 Jose years again if offered them now?

I wasn’t insinuating trophies weren’t important above. I just think that an FA Cup (for example) wouldn’t justify the potential damage that a Conte appointment would do in the long run

Why do people compare Conte and Mourinho, they're two completely different styles of manager and two completely different personalities. One is quite clearly over the hill and that is one of the worst justifications for your point. Di Maria was completely shit when he joined United I guess we shouldn't have signed any world class players after him. Since he's a world class player, was shit for a year then threw his toys out the pram and left we shouldn't have gone back for any world class players after that.

Your point is invalid just because one world class (over the hill) manager failed doesn't mean the other few will and I say few because there are only a few. So your point is basically we tried one of the best managers in the world and although he won us 2 trophies he caused us a lot of problems so let's not get another world class manager in let's go for an average one that hasn't won anything maybe he'll do better. That's absolutely insane.

 

[Rolaholic]

We really are the new Arsenal and we've got people thinking that staying in place and having yet another trophyless lost season is what we should do rather than being proactive for once and doing the inevitable like a serious club

 

[Handsome Devil]

Ed probably thought Conte was the former world light heavyweight boxing champ in the seventies and got confused.

 

[sewey89]

Why do people compare Conte and Mourinho, they're two completely different styles of manager and two completely different personalities. One is quite clearly over the hill and that is one of the worst justifications for your point. Di Maria was completely shit when he joined United I guess we shouldn't have signed any world class players after him. Since he's a world class player, was shit for a year then threw his toys out the pram and left we shouldn't have gone back for any world class players after that.

Your point is invalid just because one world class (over the hill) manager failed doesn't mean the other few will and I say few because there are only a few. So your point is basically we tried one of the best managers in the world and although he won us 2 trophies he caused us a lot of problems so let's not get another world class manager in let's go for an average one that hasn't won anything maybe he'll do better. That's absolutely insane.

That's not what I said at all, but hey, you carry on getting angry about it

 

[Loon]

In fairness, how were Mourinho and Van Gaal not "proven" managers? What we have yet to do is have an up and coming manager who has enjoyed a modicum of success elsewhere. Ten Hag might have only won the Dutch league, but it is a better achievement than the Norwegian league.

 

[Bobcat]

The problem is we doesn’t seem to build something at all. Hell, Ole just bought in Sancho to go all attack and reverted to 5 at the back making his marquee signing a surplus to requirement. He doesn’t know what he is doing. We can all speak about long term plan but in reality it’s day by day struggles with Ole : the only plan is how to not get sacked next day.

Long terms plan are fine when you have one of the best managers in the world not someone who has no idea with a rookie coaching team. That’s just amateurish and excuses for failure.

In 3 years Ole has nothing to show for. Do you think it’s the case for Klopp. More time won’t change him in a world class manager.

The only long term managers are successful ones. No manager at a big club will stay in their job if they don't win, the pressure to sack them is too much. Pep isn't still manager at City because of a long term plan. He's the manager because he started winning quickly and kept winning. If he'd failed to win the title 3 seasons in a row, he'd be gone, same as anyone else. Ole has just about managed 2 & a half seasons before fans started giving up on him en masse, which given his legend status, tells me that's the absolute maximum anyone can expect before the fans want him out. I suspect any other new manager has to start winning stuff, or at least seriously competing at the top of the table, within 2 years at the most.

So when it comes to choosing a manager, the first decision has to be - are they a viable competitor to Pep, Klopp and Tuchel in the next two seasons? Because if they're not, then it doesn't matter how long term their plan is, they won't be around to see it happen.

Once we shortlist managers that have a realistic chance of beating Pep and co, we then choose from them according to other criteria - style, longevity, link to fans, etc. But success is a prerequisite.

I was reading an interview recently with a journalist who covers Serie A.

He made the point that while Conte has fallen out with owners or left as his best players were sold out from under him he generally leaves clubs in a good position and they all seem to continue to be successful after he leaves.

He also pointed out that Bonucci praises him very highly and puts a lot of store in the mentality he instilled in the team. He says this has stayed with them and contributed to their continued success.

The other point is the most appts are short term these days (2/3 years) anyway. I would have had no issue with him coming in for 2/3 years, instilling that kind of mentality and you'd have to think with his record he'd have improve things such that we'd be challenging.

I wasnt really arguing Oles case, just i've been sceptical about Conte to United the whole time so him going to Spurs does not really bother me that much.

Pretty much everyone on here seems to agree the next appointment has the be the right one, where as now it seemes to mood has shifted to any manager who is not Ole.

 

[DULLAGHAN]

You want the team to lose tonight and not qualifying for the knockouts just to see Ole sacked? Okay.

Nothing hurts more than being embarrassed in Europe. Going out of the group stages is shocking, round of 16 to average opposition the same.

I want Ole out, but I want us out of the group 1st. Look at what Chelsea achieved last year changing management after Christmas.

 

[Rolaholic]

Why do people compare Conte and Mourinho, they're two completely different styles of manager and two completely different personalities. One is quite clearly over the hill and that is one of the worst justifications for your point. Di Maria was completely shit when he joined United I guess we shouldn't have signed any world class players after him. Since he's a world class player, was shit for a year then threw his toys out the pram and left we shouldn't have gone back for any world class players after that.

Your point is invalid just because one world class (over the hill) manager failed doesn't mean the other few will and I say few because there are only a few. So your point is basically we tried one of the best managers in the world and although he won us 2 trophies he caused us a lot of problems so let's not get another world class manager in let's go for an average one that hasn't won anything maybe he'll do better. That's absolutely insane.

The logic is absurd and exactly what Gary Neville was spewing after Liverpool that had everyone making fun of him to the point where the Scousers on the panel were the voices of reason

 

[Withnail]

I wasnt really arguing Oles case, just i've been sceptical about Conte to United the whole time so him going to Spurs does not really bother me that much.

Pretty much everyone on here seems to agree the next appointment has the be the right one, where as now it seemes to mood has shifted to any manager who is not Ole.

I was purely talking about the suitability of Conte in the context of our board considering him.

I agree that the next appt, whenever that may be, does have to the correct one but then didn't they all? Unfortunately I have little faith in the board choosing the right man.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I still can't believe that Spurs sacked their manager after 4 months because of bad results and negative football. They only sit 2 points below us.

Man Utd, the world biggest club and the most successful club in England, after 3 years with Ole without any style of play, negative football, poor results, 400 mil spent, benched Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford, Pogba for 532, deemed acceptable to keep Ole and give him more time.

It's a crazy world where accountants are in charge of football club.

 

[the_cliff]

The logic is absurd and exactly what Gary Neville was spewing after Liverpool that had everyone making fun of him to the point where the Scousers on the panel were the voices of reason

Well they've seen it with their own eyes and went through it for 30 years. hell, Souness was a part of it. Hiring ex players for positions they have no experience in in both coaching and boardroom level. Holding on to nostalgia, culture and DNA. Just go to our twitter/Instagram account it's basically a United history/nostalgia trip. As long as the current structure of our club stays the same I wouldn't be surprised if we go another 20 years without a league, we've already done 10. We have coaching staff with no experience, a technical director with no experience, a boardroom with no football knowledge and a football director with no experience being a football director. Most of them only got the jobs because they were once successful players under Fergie. It's a recipe for disaster. It's no surprise that they want Southgate/Rodgers as our next manager they would want someone with similar experience to them.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I still can't believe that Spurs sacked their manager after 4 months because of bad results and negative football. They only sit 2 points below us.

Man Utd, the world biggest club and the most successful club in England, after 3 years with Ole without any style of play, negative football, poor results, 400 mil spent, benched Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford, Pogba for 532, deemed acceptable to keep Ole and give him more time.

It's a crazy world where accountants in charge of football club.

The problem here is you still view us an elite club that aims to win major honours, that’s not us anymore under these morons. Think of us more like an Everton, it will make things a lot less painful.

 

[Sviken]

I still can't believe that Spurs sacked their manager after 4 months because of bad results and negative football. They only sit 2 points below us.

Man Utd, the world biggest club and the most successful club in England, after 3 years with Ole without any style of play, negative football, poor results, 400 mil spent, benched Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford, Pogba for 532, deemed acceptable to keep Ole and give him more time.

It's a crazy world where accountants in charge of football club.

What's important now is not trophies or results, what's important is to keep the mates comfy at their jobs. Maybe move Ole, after he is done being a manager, as the CEO or something and give it Gary till end of decade.

 

[el3mel]

The board have succeeded in their plan. They waited till there's no manager available to take this as an excuse for Ole staying. He's never leaving this season because they will say there's no good name available, and 100% will stay for next season as well regardless of this season outcome because there will hardly be any difference in the names available next summer. People who think we will pay the contract of Ten Hag probably don't know our board.

Ole will never, ever get sacked.

 

[Bebestation]

I mean I'm hurt about Conte too -

But why are people talking about Sancho sitting on the bench in a 352?

That didn't happen due to Ole.

That happened due to Ronaldo because Ronaldo cannot play as a LW anymore and neither can he play as a lone striker. Never has never will.

He needs a striker partner so we now played 352 for one match.

If that continues, Sancho is on the bench because of Ronaldo.

The same with Greenwood and Rashford.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I mean I'm hurt about Conte too -

But why are people talking about Sancho sitting on the bench in a 352?

That didn't happen due to Ole.

That happened due to Ronaldo because Ronaldo cannot play as a LW anymore and neither can he play as a lone striker. Never has never will.

He needs a striker partner so we now played 352 for one match.

If that continues, Sancho is on the bench because of Ronaldo.

No this is down to Ole signing players he’s no idea how to utilise properly and playing a formation that doesn’t cater to the squad he himself has assembled because he can’t set a team up without being cut to shreds so he has to have 7 defenders on the pitch. Blaming this on Ronaldo is laughable.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Roboc7]

I mean I'm hurt about Conte too -

But why are people talking about Sancho sitting on the bench in a 352?

That didn't happen due to Ole.

That happened due to Ronaldo because Ronaldo cannot play as a LW anymore and neither can he play as a lone striker. Never has never will.

He needs a striker partner so we now played 352 for one match.

If that continues, Sancho is on the bench because of Ronaldo.

The same with Greenwood and Rashford.

I assume Ronaldo isn’t picking the team so who is or isn’t on the bench is down to no one other than Ole.

 

[UnsungHero]

I am devastated Conte has gone to Spurs. That was our last hope short term.

Ah well, we had it good for a long time under SAF.

 

[Denis79]

The board have succeeded in their plan. They waited till there's no manager available to take this as an excuse for Ole staying. He's never leaving this season because they will say there's no good name available, and 100% will stay for next season as well regardless of this season outcome because there will hardly be any difference in the names available next summer. People who think we will pay the contract of Ten Hag probably don't know our board.

Ole will never, ever get sacked.

Unless he fails to qualify for the CL, which by the way things are going is a very possible outcome.

 

[Bebestation]

No this is down to Ole signing players he’s no idea how to utilise properly and playing a formation that doesn’t cater to the squad he himself has assembled because he can’t set a team up without being cut to shreds so he has to have 7 defenders on the pitch. Blaming this on Ronaldo is laughable.

If we didn't sign Ronaldo last minute then Sancho would be our RW because Greenwood would be our striker.

We literally saw exactly that at the start of the season.

Who was our striker?

Greenwood.

Then Ronaldo got signed.

Ronaldo has never been a lone striker. He needs a Rooney, a Benzema, a Dybala - playing him with Rashford and Greenwood or Sancho is just wrong on so many levels.

If you cant see it that's just your hatred for Ole covering your eyes.

Ronaldo was a last minute transfer that made Greenwood our RW again.

The 352 Cavani Ronaldo formation works because Ronaldo gets a partner doing everything that Ronaldo cannot do (holding the CB'S, holding the ball, making the passes etc).

It's Ole's fault that it's taken until November to find out how to manage Ronaldo -

But signing Ronaldo was never ever part of his plans because Ronaldo joined us on the last few days of the transfer window and we fitted him in WITH Sancho, Rashford and Greenwood- which again does not work.

If you do not see why Sancho and Ronaldo does not work if he does not have a striker partner then again this is no point because its just a tactical obvious issue.

 

[Redfrog]

I wasnt really arguing Oles case, just i've been sceptical about Conte to United the whole time so him going to Spurs does not really bother me that much.

Pretty much everyone on here seems to agree the next appointment has the be the right one, where as now it seemes to mood has shifted to any manager who is not Ole.

Conte is one of the best managers in the world, I would have been more interested to see what can happen under him then scrap for the top 4 an another season and waste a year. Because that’s literally what it is.

By the way, this inept board won’t find the right manager, I am sure of it.

We will end with Poch or Rodgers and it will be another 3 years project/rebuild / learn how to win under managers not good enough and hundred of millions down the drain while keeping resigning Jones of this world and loosing expansive players for free.

We have become a corporate garbage, not a football club.

 

[NK86]

The squad is of much better quality, obviously, still has issues though. Plenty of them. I suppose me actually liking this group after being quite indifferent to our side for the past few years is a big thing.
Again you speak out against a different manager, and you apparently love Ole textbook this place. I'm not defending Ole, I've wanted him gone for ages, he's totally out of his depth.

I am not saying you like Ole. All I am pointing out is that his squad additions also have been hit and miss. There's nothing about his time here which will make me think that this could go wrong if he goes. Any PL manager could get the squad he did (and plenty would do better) with the money he has spent. So I asked, what's the groundwork that could go awry if Conte comes in. He's not allergic to good players and by all accounts, he's not a cnut like Jose who burns all bridges with his players. He just calls the Board out if they try to shaft him and I would much prefer that than the blanket "they're amazing" we get from Ole.

 

[Redfrog]

I mean I'm hurt about Conte too -

But why are people talking about Sancho sitting on the bench in a 352?

That didn't happen due to Ole.

That happened due to Ronaldo because Ronaldo cannot play as a LW anymore and neither can he play as a lone striker. Never has never will.

He needs a striker partner so we now played 352 for one match.

If that continues, Sancho is on the bench because of Ronaldo.

The same with Greenwood and Rashford.

Sack Ronaldo and give Ole a life extension…wait, did you say the formation is not due to the manager ?
What Ole does ? He doesn’t coach and he doesn’t even choose the formation.

 

[croadyman]

Pretty much. This place bang on about how badly run we are, but are furious we aren't jumping at the chance to hire a manager who goes against a lot of the groundwork that has been laid over the last couple of seasons. It's hilariously daft, but to be expected on SadCafe.

Personally I could have lived with him ripping things up if it got us playing well and winning again, however the fact that bunch of pussy yankee scumbag leeches wouldn't put up with his volatile but winning mentality just sickens me to my guts

 

[croadyman]

It should never have gotten as far as needing Conte though. There have been loads of decent managers available while Ole has been at the wheel. Its been obvious for ages that he isnt good enough.

Yeah there certainly was but nope we sat on our hands whilst other teams just cherrypicked who they wanted

 

[Bebestation]

Sack Ronaldo and give Ole a life extension…wait, did you say the formation is not due to the manager ?
What Ole does ? He doesn’t coach and he doesn’t even choose the formation.

I mean again

You think Conte would play

Rashford- Ronaldo -Sancho
​

In a 343

I'm telling you tactically that's wrong because Ronaldo cannot play centrally as a lone striker and Conte would notice it immediately even if it takes Ole until November to do so. There's a difference between Ronaldo and Giroud and Morata and Cavani - even if Ronaldo is the best player out of them at putting the ball in the net.

If Conte was our manager he would as play 352 with Ronaldo in striker partnership with Ronaldo probably being used the way Lukaku was at Inter (most likely an alternative but bought him up to make it simple comparison)

What does that mean? Either Sancho is in the bench or is a RWB in a 352.

That's why I'm saying after one game we play 352 that Sancho is on the bench - we are not playing 352 due to Ole thinking it's the best way to get the best out of Rashford, Greenwood or Sancho - it's to get the best way to get the best out of Ronaldo in a striker partnership whilst also making our defences better from the back with number & the front from pressing.

 

[el3mel]

Pretty much. This place bang on about how badly run we are, but are furious we aren't jumping at the chance to hire a manager who goes against a lot of the groundwork that has been laid over the last couple of seasons. It's hilariously daft, but to be expected on SadCafe.

What groundwork exactly?

Attacking football and high pressing? Doesn't happen.

Playing youth? Only Greenwood is playing from the youngsters. Even the 90m Sancho has been rotting on the bench.

Football structure? We have been hiring ex players like Fletcher to fill such positions and when they aren't ex player, they are people who were already inside the club but just changed positions.

Long termism? Most of the main team is well over their 28. There's nothing long term about Man United current team.

So please point me to that groundwork that contradicts Conte's style of play or strategies.

 

[Redfrog]

I mean again

You think Conte would play

Rashford- Ronaldo -Sancho
​

In a 343

I'm telling you tactically that's wrong because Ronaldo cannot play centrally as a lone striker and Conte would notice it immediately even if it takes Ole until November to do so. There's a difference between Ronaldo and Giroud and Morata and Cavani - even if Ronaldo is the best player out of them at putting the ball in the net.

If Conte was our manager he would as play 352 with Ronaldo in striker partnership with Ronaldo probably being used the way Lukaku was at Inter.

What does that mean? Either Sancho is in the bench or is a RWB.

That's why I'm saying after one game we play 352 that Sancho is on the bench - we are not playing 352 due to Ole thinking it's the best way to get the best out of Rashford, Greenwood or Sancho - it's to get the best way to get the best out of Ronaldo in a striker partnership whilst also making our defences better from the back with number & the front from pressing.

The big difference is Conte knows what players he wants and how he wants to play. And he won’t take any nonsense from the board.

Ole is just ridding the wave and can’t believe his luck. Sancho has been purchased for 2 years for now have no place in the team. The manager has no personality, he doesn’t play the way he believes to but is trying to accommodate the big names.

A strong manager won’t accept the board to buy anyone for PR exercise. They will buy players for their sporting project.

Do you think Ole would have get ride of Ronaldinho like Pep did ? No, because he is a yes man and is trying to please his corporate masters.

Under such board Fergie would have been long gone before Beckham.

 

[el3mel]

It's honestly ridiculous when you think that our genius board have let Poch, Conte, Tuchel and Nagelsmann all go to other teams while we are sticking with Ole and spending more millions for nothing to show for other than top 4 spot and yet our board are still persistent on sticking with him letting more and more top managers go to other teams.

This club is a hopeless case.

 

[FootyGirl88]

What did he say?

There's video of it too, if i find it i'll share.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...eane-sir-alex-ferguson-feud-epl-a9092851.html

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Make no mistake the main reason the club is in the state it is in is because of the kind of fans that won't criticise Ole. A lot of those who happily sing his name following a 5-0 defeat to Liverpool at Old Trafford are the same guys who have also historically not been prepared to make a stand against the Glazers - and certainly refused to back in 05 when there was actually chance that we could have stopped them taking over. Their view is bordering on brainwashed: "our only job is to support the team", whatever is happening off the field, however shite our manager. And yet, if Liverpool fans had stood by and blindly supported Hodgson then they might not have ended up with Klopp, they might still be waiting for the elusive Premier League trophy. Those fans are enabling the board. If you started to hear dissent at the ground then Ole would be gone in no time because the optics would be harmful to the brand. Glazer apologists, Ole apologists, ex-players that won't criticise Ole, happy clapping fans at the ground (and I say this as an ex ST holder myself), you're just as much to blame as the board because you are not allowing them to be held to account. You think you are showing loyalty and support but you're actually strangling the club. The writing has been on the wall since 2005, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[Bebestation]

The big difference is Conte knows what players he wants and how he wants to play. And he won’t take any nonsense from the board.

Ole is just ridding the wave and can’t believe his luck. Sancho has been purchased for 2 years for now have no place in the team. The manager has no personality, he doesn’t play the way he believes to but is trying to accommodate the big names.

A strong manager won’t accept the board to buy anyone for PR exercise. They will buy players for their sporting project.

Do you think Ole would have get ride of Ronaldinho like Pep did ? No, because he is a yes man and is trying to please his corporate masters.

Under such board Fergie would have been long gone before Beckham.

And exactly this.

If the Glazers wanted Ronaldo and then Conte didn't- do you think Conte would be happy with it and be fitting him in the first team too all the time?

Again I wanted Conte here, but this talk of Sancho as some mistake of Ole is just false to me. He would have started 90% games if Ronaldo had not joined.

Cavani was injured. Rashford was injured. Greenwood was our striker. Ronaldo was not signed.

Your telling me that Sancho was not planned and wouldn't have got games?

The guy who didn't have a plan was Ronaldo.

Conte is very strict to his plans - and if something doesn't line up with his short 2 year plans then he will leave the club even before getting sacked - that has the liklihood of the Glazers saying we want to buy Ronaldo on the last 2 days of the transfer window just as much as it is to buying Sancho instead of the player he actually wants.

Whether that's something Conte likes or dislikes is really all in his brain - just like Pep and Ronaldinho.

 

[croadyman]

Make no mistake the main reason the club is in the state it is in is because of the kind of fans that won't criticise Ole. A lot of those who happily sing his name following a 5-0 defeat to Liverpool at Old Trafford are the same guys who have also historically not been prepared to make a stand against the Glazers - and certainly refused to back in 05 when there was actually chance that we could have stopped them taking over. Their view is bordering on brainwashed: "our only job is to support the team", whatever is happening off the field, however shite our manager. And yet, if Liverpool fans had stood by and blindly supported Hodgson then they might not have ended up with Klopp, they might still be waiting for the elusive Premier League trophy. Those fans are enabling the board. If you started to hear dissent at the ground then Ole would be gone in no time because the optics would be harmful to the brand. Glazer apologists, Ole apologists, ex-players that won't criticise Ole, happy clapping fans at the ground (and I say this as an ex ST holder myself), you're just as much to blame as the board because you are not allowing them to be held to account. You think you are showing loyalty and support but you're actually strangling the club. The writing has been on the wall since 2005, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

Never has a post on this forum absolutely nailed it more than this one

 

[CM]

Our inaction is so disappointing. I don't think even the staunchest Solskjaer supporters hold out much hope for him now, and we've just let the best available option walk through the door at a domestic rival.

This is also why I haven't got much faith in us getting it right even beyond Solskjaer. The decision makers here have shown nothing to suggest they'll get the next appointment right.

There's lacking ruthlessness and then there's losing 0-5 at home to your biggest rivals without consequence. It's a mess, and we've not even got a reliable option to fall back on now when Solskjaer does get the boot.