Wow, 90% out. Writings on the wall isn't it.
Not Zidane though for me.
Not Zidane though for me.
Ole Sack Watch
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
- Status
Another straw man. He has been in charge for how many years now ? He has been given a ton of money. If the midfield is not good enough it’s on him.
But the members of the Ole cult can continue with the excuses - it’s pretty funny.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,287
- Supports
️
There’s no straw man here. What a disappointing and lazy response.
You just can’t handle an opinion differing from your own.
In those years we have significantly improved the overall shape of the squad which Ole has played a significant role in. WeveEstablished youth academy players and massively closed the gap on Liverpool and City. There is still a gap of course I just happen to feel we’re now a midfield away from closing it.
Ole is not solely responsible for recruitment. To blame him for it would be as stupid as me claiming he’s solely responsible for the improved squad.
Intriguing that you’d sooner brand me as part of a cult than engage in a discussion. I’m sure it’s far easier to compartmentalise life the way you do.
Which will buy you about three revolutions of the airscrew, but every little helps.
There is loads of other better than Ole. Are they good enough to manage Manchester United and compete with Pep and Klopp probably not but right now we are looking to replace a very sub standard manager.
I'm of the opinion we should get a caretaker if there is no obvious option for the club
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,287
- Supports
- ️
What would a caretaker bring that Ole can’t?
I think the Glazers would just find another mediocre yes man. They don't want a top class manager coming in and pointing up how badly run the club is from a football point of view. And a top class manager wouldn't want to come here for the same reason. Ole is just a symptom, not the disease.
The situation is still salvageable if Ole is sacked, if he stays then it will be all too late. Prem, CL..
He has never been in charge. It's on Ed and the Glazers. Wake up people.
I'm sorry but this is bollocks. I almost.didnt think you were serious, there isn't a trophy for being a 'top red'.
To say our squad is a top 4 squad and nothing more is silly.
We have one of if not the greatest forwards of all time.
We have top quality wingers who have proven in the past or elsewhere exactly what they can do.
Greenwood is a talent of which is rarely seen.
Even in midfield, our weakest position we have a world cup winner.
Our CB first choice is probably only equaled by Liverpool in the league.
Our left back is top quality
Our goalkeeper has returned to world class form.
This squad has the quality to compete for the league and that it what the bar should be this season. Ole said that was the target himself this season, let's not rewrite expectation to fit the scenario.
Could we do with a better midfielder or two? Yes we could. But very few teams of strong in every position but they tactically adapt and coach their players in a system that will play to their strengths. City don't have a striker FFS but you don't see them labeling themselves a top 4 team.
Our weakest link by far is Ole and his coaching staff. I and many other are convinced that this squad could be contenders with the proper coaching.
The only thing that is clear right now is it doesn't matter how much money you give Ole, he has reached his ceiling. In fact giving him better players makes it harder for him (as proven this summer), as he doesn't know how to properly setup a team and rotate effectively. The sooner he goes the better for the club, to say otherwise is either sheer fandom of the man or you don't really understand football.
He will never win a major trophy managing the club. Therefore he should be in the hot seat.
You mean the Glazers who had no problem hiring LVG and Mourinho, who are both as outspoken as anyone that could be hired?
The Glazers have no problem hiring any manager outspoken or not. Your argument has no basis. Ole has been given control in the transfer market and does have influence when it comes to the recruitment. The team IMO is good but needs a more experienced hand to guide it to greater heights as far as challenging for major honours are concerned. Ole has done a decent job but it seems the next step is beyond him.
Last edited:
agreed about him getting the best out of our young players. I think he did very well with what turned out to be a pretty crap bunch of academy players (baring Rashford) and no doubt he’d do very well with the very good young players we have now.
Rooney was completely on LVG. He should have had the balls to drop him. Probably his biggest mistake.
Give it Giggsy the end of the season...
just kidding.
Look, we all knew that with this fecking abject midfield we were not winning jack fecking shit. Why are people suddenly surprised? Because we signed Ronaldo? January window had better bring in a proper midfield or we're fecked. There are a lot of better managers than Ole but which are available and would come to United's rescue? The short term mindset gave us fecking Mourinho, who tried his damnedest to destroy the United soul.
Zidane would look at our midfield and conclude we'd do better if he laced up his boots and gave it a go. Without another billion pound investment, who can take this team forward? We've made progress every season under OGS, 6 to 4 to 2. This season it ain't lookin' like 2nd is on the cards, but who would you have?
just kidding.
Look, we all knew that with this fecking abject midfield we were not winning jack fecking shit. Why are people suddenly surprised? Because we signed Ronaldo? January window had better bring in a proper midfield or we're fecked. There are a lot of better managers than Ole but which are available and would come to United's rescue? The short term mindset gave us fecking Mourinho, who tried his damnedest to destroy the United soul.
Zidane would look at our midfield and conclude we'd do better if he laced up his boots and gave it a go. Without another billion pound investment, who can take this team forward? We've made progress every season under OGS, 6 to 4 to 2. This season it ain't lookin' like 2nd is on the cards, but who would you have?
I am fully Ole out as this stage, past the point everyone has when they feel uncertain and sway between in and out. I simply feel that the man, while an eternal club legend and the scorer of the biggest goal in our history, is clearly out of his depth as a manager. So many things look disjointed to say the least. We all realise that we have absolutely no pattern of play, but it’s when we get basic passing, positioning and compact defensive shape wrong that I get really worried. It is cliche but I do not know what he and his coaches (who he says take training) does in that time.
His game management simply has not improved since he arrived as interim back in 2018 as well, which I do not understand. You would’ve thought that as he managed longer at the top level, his on-pitch managerial skills would have developed. Clearly not. In fact, it’s probably gotten worse as he seems more stubborn now. Not fixing the problem of us virtually starting most of our games 1-0 down, never changing anything until the 70th minute and never dropping Fred and McTominay, possibly the two most limited midfielders in the top half, are prime examples of this. Unfortunately, if he hasn’t learned any lessons after 3 years, then he never will.
And to top it all off, the most concerning thing is that since Ronaldo returned especially, I feel it is not knee jerk to say that the players have simply stopped playing for him. Is that down to Ronaldo? I don’t know. But, to give context, we used the exact same setup yesterday that we used against Leicester after lockdown in 2020 in that decisive CL qualification game, with Sancho in for Rashford, and Ronaldo in for Martial. We had no patterns of play then as well but won 0-2 and played with swathes of desire to cap off a thrilling return to football from the Sheffield United game onwards.
There wasn’t a tenth of that fight yesterday (or against YB, Villa and Everton) and Leicester had less to play for as well. Once you lose the dressing room, there is no way back for the manager, even for some of the greatest like Mourinho or Ancelotti. As such, I think he is going to be sacked soon, which can only be good news for the club, which is what we all want to do well at the end of the day.
However, I also have to say that in a sea of bad decisions over prolonged periods of time, his recruitment and team building has largely been good. Our strongest 11 now is arguably as follows:
DDG
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Pogba Matic
Sancho Bruno Rashford
Ronaldo
That is a PlayStation team, and it’s not an exaggeration to say that it’s our best team on paper since Fergie’s RvP team, with the likes of Mason and Cavani as depth as well. So, once the inevitable happens, I wholeheartedly thank him for this. If we hire a manager with a plan and some proper tactical nous about him, like a Ten Hag or Zidane, his job will be much easier than the one Ole walked into.
His game management simply has not improved since he arrived as interim back in 2018 as well, which I do not understand. You would’ve thought that as he managed longer at the top level, his on-pitch managerial skills would have developed. Clearly not. In fact, it’s probably gotten worse as he seems more stubborn now. Not fixing the problem of us virtually starting most of our games 1-0 down, never changing anything until the 70th minute and never dropping Fred and McTominay, possibly the two most limited midfielders in the top half, are prime examples of this. Unfortunately, if he hasn’t learned any lessons after 3 years, then he never will.
And to top it all off, the most concerning thing is that since Ronaldo returned especially, I feel it is not knee jerk to say that the players have simply stopped playing for him. Is that down to Ronaldo? I don’t know. But, to give context, we used the exact same setup yesterday that we used against Leicester after lockdown in 2020 in that decisive CL qualification game, with Sancho in for Rashford, and Ronaldo in for Martial. We had no patterns of play then as well but won 0-2 and played with swathes of desire to cap off a thrilling return to football from the Sheffield United game onwards.
There wasn’t a tenth of that fight yesterday (or against YB, Villa and Everton) and Leicester had less to play for as well. Once you lose the dressing room, there is no way back for the manager, even for some of the greatest like Mourinho or Ancelotti. As such, I think he is going to be sacked soon, which can only be good news for the club, which is what we all want to do well at the end of the day.
However, I also have to say that in a sea of bad decisions over prolonged periods of time, his recruitment and team building has largely been good. Our strongest 11 now is arguably as follows:
DDG
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Pogba Matic
Sancho Bruno Rashford
Ronaldo
That is a PlayStation team, and it’s not an exaggeration to say that it’s our best team on paper since Fergie’s RvP team, with the likes of Mason and Cavani as depth as well. So, once the inevitable happens, I wholeheartedly thank him for this. If we hire a manager with a plan and some proper tactical nous about him, like a Ten Hag or Zidane, his job will be much easier than the one Ole walked into.
Ole decided to offer contract extensions to Mata and Lingard and make promises of game time to Martial and VDB and block them from going off on loan, rather than sign a midfielder this summer. Any number of those players could have been let go in one way or another and made room in the squad and in the wage bill for midfield reinforcements and Ole decided it wasn't a priority.
It wasn't a priority because he rated McFred as good enough first choices. He rated them as good enough because he is clueless. Or at least he did 2 months ago, possibly dawning on him now how wrong he was.
Ole has signed AWB, Varane and Maguire for £180m and sits two high energy players in front of them, and yet the defending so far this season has been worse than it's ever been under Ole, or under any of the previous managers for that matter.
Another £100m on Declan Rice is not going to make up for Ole being an incompetent manager with no tactical acumen who hires rookies to coach for him.
If the other players in other positions on the pitch are good enough to win the league but are not able to play coherently what makes you think one or two defensive midfielders will change anything while Ole is manager?
Again. When Liverpool were short of a world class CB and GK to being a genuine top team the rest of the team was playing very well and the improvement in everything was obvious. So it wasn’t a stretch to say that once Klopp had those two positions they’d step up an extra level.
But under Ole, our team is not coherent, he is not getting the best out of the players in the other positions.
We haven’t really narrowed the gap. We bought some quality players in but that’s really a non brainer considering he spent more than any of his predecessors. Some of those might easily become deadwood for the next manager and we're back to square one.
Squad is as good as the sum of parts and how well they glue together and a good manager makes a real difference between two teams with good players in it. Ole is a nothing manager and always has been.
Our gameplan always has been relying on individual brilliance and counters into space. Since day one. We still have no identity in our play and even half a billion later since the start of the season we played well in the grand total of two games (Leeds, Newcastle). In every other game we deserved to lose points or got out of jail basically either with a dubious call (Wolves), opposition missing a peno with the last kick of the game (WH) and the smash and grab win against Villareal.
In pretty much every game we sucked, yet made formation changes (not that it makes much of a difference).
A midfield away of narrowing the gap is complete and utter bollocks. We spend how many hundreds of millions on defence that is still all over the shop? There are bunch of attacking players with no real plan of how to use them or with any fluidity in it.
You are crying about our midfield, when your beloved Ole spend 40m pounds on VdB, to play him 20 league games so far and teams like Brighton and Brentford whose entire roster is worth as much as probably Varane and Sancho combined being either above us(Brighton) or 2 points behind us playing more coherent football than us.
Or Gasperrini at Atalanta how many seasons in a row finishing top 4 and making it outside the groups of CL with his highest transfer fee of 15m euros?
You can pull your excuses all your want but apart from success in a farmers league 10 years ago, Ole's resume is worse than all PL managers and probably half of those in Championship.
Literally every other manager out there in the top 40-60 clubs in English flight will do no worse than him and I'm pretty positive about that.
Let's see him outside United massive transfer kitty when he's eventually sacked and when he's in a level field with the likes of Brighton and Brentford, where his managerial qualities should stood up and he doesn't have world class players to pull him out of the sack.
Neither were top class managers. They were both mercenary has beens. And they only became outspoken later on when they came into conflict with Ed over the running of the club and transfer policy. That's exactly why the Glazers appointed Ole instead despite his obvious lack of qualifications. They know he won't slag them off and will suck up the blame. That's what he's for.
Ole has no real tactical plan but having talented players in the right positions can offset that to some extent. Of course it's better to have a well drilled and proven system but that would be the next best thing. Without DMs , any half decent team can just play straight through our midfield just like Leicester did today.
It is his third season now and there is no indication of good football or threat to challenge for the big trophies.
There are no guarantees of course but our aim should be to get someone who makes the team more than the sum of its parts. This is an absolute minimum. If they fail too, they will be moved on too.
Where the Feck is Roman when you need him. Don't want to start to dislike Ole but he just needs to go. Can't go on much longer we look awful. There is still time to save this season.
I don't think using the prices of players is a fair stick to beat Ole with, how is it his fault that Woodie can't get a good deal on a player to save his life?
More importantly, you could visibly see his style coming into effect and actually see tangible proof of his tactics. It didn’t work but it was evident he could coach it.
I don't believe Ole will win anything here. But he did a better job than Moyes (a current PL manager) and his resume includes getting us to 3rd and 2nd in the PL. Ole will find a job fairly easily after this especially considering his connections.
Have we really improved the shape of the squad that much? Sure individual positions have improved but that's after 400+ million pounds so hardly a credit to oles coaching skills..teams are cutting right through us at the momment every game.
How many youth academy players have we really established in the first team..specially in the last year where it looks like Oles to scared to make any serious changes to the team line up?
The closing the gap part remains to be seen in my honest opinion aswell.
Overall he's done a good job stabilising the ship and squad quality has improved (after large sums of money). Now Week in week out, clubs with far inferior teams have been out playing us and that shouldn't be happening with this squad, defensive midfielder or not.
As posters above me have said, when chelsea sacked lampard for tuchel, there were people on the fence on tuchels quality. At the end of the day chelsea were in a similar position to us and they took a risk. You can argue whether their team then was better or worse then us but that doesn't change the fact that they were underperforming; took a risk and changed manager and immediately improved.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,287
- Supports
- ️
@lilcurt Do you think our squad is better than City Liverpool and Chelsea? Otherwise it is by definition a top 4 squad.
Ronaldo is a world class striker who doesn’t press at all. This causes issues further down our system. Issues Ole and the team will need time to identify, improve and fix. Teething problems.
Rashford coming back from long injury, Sancho debut PL season from Bundesliga hardly a shock. Greenwood is class but still young.
And have no title worthy defensive midfielder unlike Fabinho, Rodri/Fernandinho and Kante.
Our CBs are still developing a partnership and have suffered injuries.
I agree about Shaw and De Gea.
Expectations have to change based on events in the season. Liverpool losing Van Dijk derailed them for example.
I’ll repeat my position on Ole. He should be replaced at the right time by the right manager to take us to titles. Now is not the right time and the right manager isn’t around right now. I’ll ignore the rest seeing as you resort to attempted insult. Shame that as we have more in common than you think.
This isn’t village Hobbers
I think we disagree on a few key issues if I have time tomorrow I’ll respond properly to this.
Top reds are the most deluded for a reason. Wouldn't pay much attention to them
Most on here wanted Mourinho who won the league with Chelsea not long before taking the reign at United. Mourinho was a top class manager, so let's not rewrite history here. And no they didn't become outspoken later, but were always outspoken, LVG for example went on record and said he had run-ins with Uli Hoeneß at Bayern.
Ole was never the planned appointment and hence got the job due to what he showed during his spell as the interim manager. Because according to all reports, United wanted Pochettino and were even prepared to pay a hefty fee to buy out his contact from Spurs. There's absoulutely no evidence that the Glazers hired anyone on the basis of being afraid being slagged off or will suck up the blame which is a absurd suggestion to make. No Head Coach or manager anywhere slags off the owners at any club. That wouldn't be a very good idea at all would it.
Last edited:
Ive backed Ole all the way but enough is enough. We are still very much a team of individuals and not collectively a force, and after 3 years that's not good enough. I think Ole has generally done well with recruitment and the cultural reset that was needed post Van Gaal & Mourinho, but its clear we are not making progress needed that matches the investment. He will always be a legend in my mind but we need to strong manager and and an equally strong tactical 1st team coach set up, to make us better. Do it now, dont prolong it...
They both played out of date football by the time they arrived in Manchester. All the good ones now do high press. And neither were critical of the club till near the end of their tenure when they were deprived of the right transfers. Just like Ole has been for all the Ronaldo sideshow. Unlike them he will say nothing though.
Sack him with immediate effect. The sooner he goes, the better. Nowhere near good enough, never was.
Moyes was sacked after 8 months in. His w/l in his United tenure was no different to what Ole's w/l was during his first half season when he got us from 6th to 6th.
Moyes also got 9 points less than United last season managing a much inferior side with inferior budget.
Spending half a billion and managing 3rd and 2nd finish in PL means success to you?
Let's see that fairly easy job that he will find next, as if it wasn't for nepotism he wouldn't have got United's one for so long.
Why should they have been critical of the club after they both did a terrible job and were backed with a considerable amount of money? They only became critical due to the shit jobs they did. Van Gaal for example described the worst two years of his managerial career being at Bayern (in a 2019 interview) due to their President (Hoeness) and himself not agreeing on various things which culminated in his sacking.
All teams don't need to play high press but can start by actually having a cohesive attacking plan whilst actually being in possession. And that's something that we're failing on when attempting to play a proactive brand of football. If you can get that right then applying pressure high up the the pitch, off the ball isn't difficult.
You have no knowledge or just trolling. Who signed Ronaldo? Who signed DVB? Who signed Sancho? if we needed to upgrade on a midfield player why did he sign all these players instead of signing a quality midfield player? Why did he not sell players? Martial, Lingard, Mata, Jones and even Bailly if it was so important to buy a midfield player? He has been around for three years now and he could not see that we need a quality midfield player? It shows either way that he is incompetent.
I don't imagine that the Board will care very much about polls on the Caf. It will be CL participation that ultimately decides Ole's fate. We're in a top 4 race, not a title race.
I agree with you. what is this fetish with the high press? There is more than one way to play football.
Ole has done better than Moyes at United if we consider their full time here.
2nd and 3rd is not a resounding success for United but it enhances his CV. I was just replying to you saying he has a bad CV in the PL.
To my quoted part, why not use the Sancho money for a DM?
Why after three years do we still look clueless in attack and defence?
If we had Fabinho would we be running away with the league?
I'm glad we agree. This high press fetish shouldn't overtake the actual priority which is to control a game via possession IMO. And once you can control the game via zonal and positional control then applying pressure high up the pitch will come naturally.
You don't change expectation as the season goes on. You have targets at the start of a campaign that is that. Sure you may decide to slightly reframe when you look back but if less than two months ago our own manager said our aim was to challenge for the league, well that is the target.
As for. Impacting squads. I actually think our squad is on par with Liverpool and Chelsea with maybe only City being out in front.
You also seem to ignore the fixture list, currently you don't have to compare our squad to Liverpool, Chelsea or City because we haven't played them. We have had by far the easiest fixtures of those teams mentioned and taken 1 point from the last 9 available, we dropped points to Southampton and have only looked decent against Leeds all season.
Out of interest, can you give me the name.of a manager you would consider to be the right one? (Regardless of availability in this example).
I don't see the point in keeping Ole regardless of who is available, bring a caretaker in for now and don't be silly enough to give him the job full time.
I honestly don't think the side can get much worse and I don't want players like Donny leaving in January because Ole doesn't know how to build a team.
You seem so keen to give him time, your posts read as if you don't even care if he deserves it.
There is a saying - "Don't let perfection be the enemy of the good."
I feel that is exactly what you are doing with you stance on not saying bye to Ole. He is miles of what it takes to be a decent PL manager, absolutley miles.
Better tactics? Better management?
Ole was a decent caretaker. Atleast for the first month or two. It was the right decision to get him over Jose.
It's the same things with Ole now. He isn't getting anything out of an absolutely fantastic squad. No point wasting the season.
We can all wish him to be a good manager but sadly it doesn't make it so.
In football it's very clear that when a manager is going like this it can only ever go one way. To waste the season in it would be incompetence.
Should learn a thing or two from Chelsea in that respect
Last edited:
- Status