Ole Sack Watch

[Robbie Boy]

What we saw vs Liverpool is about the worst managerial performance I've seen from anyone at the club in my lifetime, without a hint of exaggeration. The age old cliche of it could have been a cricket score could be no truer of that game since Liverpool actually lost interest in battering us around anymore, like a cat that's done playing with a mouse it's shredded to within a inch of its life.

Spurs need points and will be eager to compound our misery; Atalanta will feel hard done by to not have come away with a result, but should have more of their actual 1st team fielded at their own ground, and who knows what malady awaits with City if they really decide to go for it.

Things mightn't even be at their nadir with Ole - keeping him in the hotseat when everything is crumbling around him does nobody any favours as its just dragging him over hot coals by now. He is bereft of ideas, a plan and has no idea how to utilise the squad he has, which means some variation of the exact same thing we've seen time and again in his approach to those upcoming games. By now, the buck does not stop with him, but with those who keep him in employment - he is out of his depth and it is a cruel and ceaseless detailing every time we go out there and has been for the majority of the entire season.

When I asked you if you think it could be worse, I am genuinely curious to what you think could go more wrong that what Ole has overseen - the tactics don't work; the line-ups are wrought with flaws; I'm almost 100% certain he is playing unfit players over fit ones; and there is not a hint of cohesive in-game management. I don't believe things plummet to unknown depths with other ex-players at the helm for an interim period because everything Ole is doing is already failing beyond a redeemable point. There is not one aspect I can point to and think of as a positive in what's unfolding, and that's damning. Not a single player nor tactic implemented can I say Ole is making greater than the sum of what it is. At worst, we get more of the same, at best, we get a momentary bump in performance free-styled by a team who are already essentially making it up as the game goes beyond the initial instructions and needs clawing back on instinct.

Klopp could have taken us for at least 9 goals on Sunday if he wanted to. Liverpool could have turned on the afterburners and really driven for more goals once we went down to ten men. It should be beared in mind that the only reasons they didn't is they have other fish to fry and self-preservation in the face of our players starting to lose their heads is the only reason they didn't - absolutely nothing to do with anything we implemented to try and stop their rampage. That's on my mind when I ask if the others could be any worse, and the simple answer is: by now? no, they absolutely couldn't be because there is absolutely nothing we are doing even remotely well at the present time.

On the replacement score, I agree, however, but the two are not mutually exclusive. A caretaker or what have you can still be in place whilst that process goes on. What should be avoided at all costs is breaking the spirit and morale of the players when the season is still salvageable should they not need coaxing out of mental hole - a few more devastating losses could well be the difference between that being the case and not.

Cracking post.

 

[DWelbz19]

If anyone isn’t Conte In yet, watch this video and revel in its mastery

 

[Zen86]

Again what is with all these miss conceptions. Hazard was seen as one of the best players in the world playing under Conte as an inside forward. Roles prime for a Sancho, Rashford or Greenwood. So if they perform the role asked of them then there is no problem with them.

Also we are at best a counter attacking team now, Contes Chelsea were at heart a counter attacking team but they could play a bit as well. The CAF opinion on Conte is totally wrong and makes me think 90% of it have never seen any of his teams but feel confident in speaking absolute tosh about him.

Hazard was about the only attacking thing in that team, amidst a pile of defenders, defensive midfielders, and a bellend targetman up top. From reading the caf over the last few years, I would say people here very clearly do not want counterattacking football. They want anything but.

 

[Revan]

Your posts are implying that sentiments or SAF are our problem as you are just focusing on Moyes and Ole.

He has been one of the problems. Obviously, the main culprit is Ed for listening for Ole (he had no say for Moyes), but the fact remains that half of the time since SAF left, it was wasted on managers he recommended. Incidentally, those two are also the only managers to not win anything.

So what about Jose? Sir Bobby didn’t want him but we still hired him. This however doesn’t seem to be your focus.
If anything Jose and LvG failed much more here. They came with such impressive CVs and couldn’t even manage two back-to-back top 4 league finishes.

They did not fail more. LVG won a trophy, Jose won two. Both of them spent less than Ole and were given less time than Ole. LVG managed to qualify for UCL in his first season, he missed the second on GD. Jose managed to qualify for UCL in both seasons.

Anyway, even two past it fossil managers, that were not recommended by SAF, still won 3 trophies in around the same amount of time that SAF managers won nothing.

Under Ole we also at least spent significant money on kids (Amad/Pellistri) and Sancho. Those are talented young players and / or future investments.
If they don’t work out we could sell them. Hell we even managed to sell James for a profit as he is still young.

Kids he has no intention to play, and whom we have no idea if the new manager will play them. So why is that good?

Look, I am not saying that we need to kill SAF, or not sing his name, or ban him from Old Trafford, or from United parties, or even remove his seat. Nope. I am just saying that we should not listen to him for managerial appointments. Same as how Liverpool does not listen to Dalglish, or Real did not listen to Di Steffano. Give him love and respect, but he should not play any role in managerial/player appointments.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[united_99]

Withing context though, we were second cause Chelsea had Lampard (they got significantly more points than us since Tuchel became their manager), and Klopp had his entire defense injured. Also, while second might look good, we were 12 points below the champions, and had gotten only 74 points, which in most seasons would give you fourth. Also, the football shown on the pitch was disgusting.

There were no reasons to be optimistic if you were thinking with a calm head. If you were thinking with the brain, sure 'remember the goal in '99, Ole at the wheel, etc etc'.

So you are using context for Chelsea (Lampard) but not United?
How can you compare such a congested season like the last one where for the entire season we had a game every 3-4 days to a normal non-COVID season? And as if this was not enough at the end of such a tiring schedule we even had to play 4 games in 8 days.
Under normal circumstances we could have won at least 2-3 games more.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I bet Fergie enjoys situation where, 8 and a half years since he retired, not one manager brought us real success. Makes him look even bigger.

Ole either wins next 3 games and stays, or loses to Spurs and gets sacked after that game or after City if they are to take more time to find a replacement. Either way, after 5-0 home loss, players reportedly being unhappy with manager and his staff, we're not winning 3 games in a row, even if was 3 easier opponents. City could trash us the way Liverpool did.

Yeah he's looked thrilled...

 

[Tom Cato]

Care to show us the wage bill under Ole?

Annual transfer fee inflation sits around 24%

Mufc currently sits at around 55% I believe of income paid in salaries, expected to go to 60% (this is not a awful number)

Managers dont have say in transfer fees or salaries

 

[Ixion]

I'd like to know what the bar is for those 3 games. Win them all? Win 1?

 

[Highfather_24]

A decent attack-minded coach could work wonders with Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford. Fair enough you wouldn't count the rest of the first XI as young anymore. I highly doubt Conte would have much of a plan for them.

I think going from Ole to Ten Hag is a bigger jump(style wise), than Conte to Ten Hag. While Conte is not the most attack minded or defense minded coach(somewhere in between), what he offers is a solid tactical foundation, our team will be very well drilled, there will be noticeable patters of play attack wise, and he wins stuff. I think he is the best among the available options.

I would also prefer an attack minded coach, who is also a winner, who will also get us instant success with this squad, while also being able to handle big egos and has worked at a big club before.

But does that manager exist/mildly attainable? Conte atleast fits four of those five boxes. Who would you get?

 

[The White Pele]

I feel the club are being dumb here. There are two decisions to make and one isn't dependant on the other.

1) sack Ole? Yes 100%!

2) who replaces him?

Now the answer the question 2 shouldn't change the thinking of 1. Any manager on the shortlist would be better than Ole. We could even remove Ole and bring in an interim, similar to what Chelsea did with Hiddink and Rafa.

Ole should not have started the day as the manager. For me this is now worse than the result against Liverpool, as the club are essentially accepting it!

If you wouldn't accept a 5-0 loss to Liverpool under Jose, why would we accept one now under Ole when we are meant to have progressed.

I'm truly disgusted by the state of the club and those on the board. It's Mates FC with no held to account or taking responsibility.

That’s not the criteria though. There’s no point just getting any manager that we believe is better than Ole. The goal is to challenge for, and eventually win a league title. So we need somebody of the required standard to do that.

If any manager on the list is better than Ole do you care to venture some names?

And if they’re not available now and like you say we decide to bring in an interim, can you put forward any reasonable candidates?

Because if there aren’t the right candidates available then it absolutely does change the thinking on sacking Ole right now.

 

[BluesJr]

3 games to save his job apparently. I’ve never heard something so ridiculous and laughable. This club really is so rudderless.

 

[pocco]

One last FU from Ed on his way out

They are fecked in the head if they genuinely think that. Woodward is an absolute prat, I think he's doing this for his personal image. He doesn't want another sacking on his CV and he's probably hoping deep down that Ole pulls something miraculous off and wins a big trophy in the next few years.

 

[Loon]

The players will play out of their skins against Spurs and get a result. It will be seen as “easing pressure” on the manager.

It’s been disjointed and dysfunctional for a while, with many expecting a loss at home to Liverpool (not of that magnitude obvs) following a slapping from fecking Leicester, and calls of no discernible style to the team. Expecting to lose? That’s where we’ve progressed to?

Sunday’s result should have been the last straw. I love the guy as a player, but he’s the modern Wilf McGuinness. I am amazed he’s been given a reprieve.

 

[Revan]

So you are using context for Chelsea (Lampard) but not United?

Not really. I am just saying that Chelsea had a shitter manager than us, so finished below us. The moment they upgraded him, they looked far better than us, got more points than us and won the UCL. This season that they have not a shit manager, they are first in the table.

How can you compare such a congested season like the last one where for the entire season we had a game every 3-4 days to a normal non-COVID season? And as if this was not enough at the end of such a tiring schedule we even had to play 4 games in 8 days.
Under normal circumstances we could have won at least 2-3 games more.

The other teams had those extra games too.

We are under normal circumstances this season. Last time I checked, we are not winning 2-3 more games.

 

[Rado_N]

I’m baffled by SAF’s position here. He knows 1000x more about football than I do and he seems to want Ole to stay longer.

I am not seeing how things get better or that we ever challenge for the big titles under Ole, but he maybe sees something I don’t see

He also thought Moyes was a good idea.

Just like John Elway was one of the best Quarterbacks to play in the NFL but couldn’t identify young QB talent to save his life.

Everyone has blind spots.

 

[Real Name]

I bet Fergie enjoys situation where, 8 and a half years since he retired, not one manager brought us real success. Makes him look even bigger.

Yeah, sure, he absolutely loves that.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I mean, Nuno’s Spurs surely aren’t a good barometer. Surely we’ll beat them.

I’m livid. We just lost 0-5 at home to Pool and simply didn’t turn up and we’re acting like it’s realistic Ole is the right calibre for us.

 

[TeddyBear]

Guardian reporting that Ferguson, Woodward and Arnold all want him to stay but the decision lies with Joel.

Guess we're waiting for Joel to watch Match of the Day then.

Sickening to have this bunch of dinosaurs running the club.

Given a real proper club, he would have long gone.

What does the Glazers know how critical the issues are at the moment.

They know nuts about football.

 

[MalaysianRed7]

The truly devastating thing is that I’ll fully support him and the team against Spurs, Atalanta and City, but deep down, I and all of us know that 3 losses is what’s best for United if he’s given a stay of execution until the international break. Any hope now that he will turn this around is simply delusions of grandeur. I’m questioning myself now as to why I even continued to back him after the first embarrassment against Spurs last season, Leipzig etc.

It simply should never have come to this. The latest he should have been sacked was after Villa, let alone Leicester or Liverpool. It’s sad that a United legend now even has the likes of Rashford, Lingard and Mason turning on him based on posts they’re liking on social media and the leaks Rashy’s team gave to Ornstein, let alone the superstars like Pogba and Ronaldo. No matter how nice a guy he is though, it was always going to come to this once world class players realised that their game was being hindered by a manager hardly even good enough for this league.

Once he goes, I will thank him for Paris and his team building, which has been the one plus of his time here as he’s built far better teams than LvG or Jose with the money he’s spent. However, he has to go right now, or we won’t go anywhere. To be honest, if he loved us as much as he and everyone claims, he’d resign right now. I can guarantee that if I was as wealthy and set for life as him, I’d do the same out of love for the club even if it meant foregoing a few million or so, and I’m sure many people here would too.

 

[Revan]

I'd like to know what the bar is for those 3 games. Win them all? Win 1?

Don't lose the first two by more than 3 goals, and try to not lose the third one by 10 goals.

That man has more lives than a cat.

 

[Lukinho]

And again the glazers showing that they dont even care. There is no way you can loose to your biggest rival 5:0 at home and still be in a Job. This is going to be the worst result in my lifetime. I Hope so atleast

 

[I Am Zlatan]

This is the crazy thing but also not a surprise.

You’re right, not surprising, we’ve seen the board make one dumb decision after another, and after this debacle, nothing is going to surprise me anymore, unfortunately I have to adjust my expectations of us as a top club and live with this madness until hopefully at one point the glazers will either feck off, or hire someone who takes care of the football side and not Joel waking up at in Florida making decisions about Manchester United or his puppet Ed, and it seems John is following Ed’s steps..

The whole thing makes no sense, the benefits of simply hiring someone that has knowledge of football and have him take care of everything football related, surly will not only steer the club in the right direction, and make them more money, but also would save them money, like not giving a manager a new contract before deciding to get rid of the manager few months later (twice), or give the likes of Jones a new improved contract, etc..

I always thought that maybe a lot is going on in the background and we don’t know exactly what’s happening and we just speculate here, but it seems like they’re truly very incompetent.. with all the money they have, can’t they find better financial advisors?

 

[Blood Mage]

Why don't they just agree with Ole to take it to the end of the season? Its obvious no caretaker will do better and no manager we want is available right now

Because Ole has lost the dressing room and things could get very ugly the longer he remains? This season is salvageable and we shouldn't be writing it off in October.

 

[lsd]

Fergie and Gill at Carrington today apparently

 

[UnitedSofa]

 

[Infra-red]

I'd like to know what the bar is for those 3 games. Win them all? Win 1?

Probably needs at least a win and a draw and to avoid humiliation in any of the three.

 

[RUCK4444]

3 games to save his job apparently. I’ve never heard something so ridiculous and laughable. This club really is so rudderless.

Best of the 3. If he loses twice he will request best of 5 from SAF.

 

[hobbers]

Season pissed away because the board are pathetic cowards.

 

[Infestissumam]

3 games feck me. Whenever you think this club can't be anymore clueless, they come out and do things like this. Shambles.

 

[romufc]

And again the glazers showing that they dont even care. There is no way you can loose to your biggest rival 5:0 at home and still be in a Job. This is going to be the worst result in my lifetime. I Hope so atleast

The funny thing is that one of our worst results might not even me the worst for long, we have CIty in 2 weeks and I guarantee you they will not take the foot of the gas.

They will try and kill us, I cannot see anything less than 5-0 City in that game.

 

[jem]

3 games to save his job apparently. I’ve never heard something so ridiculous and laughable. This club really is so rudderless.

Exactly. He'll probably grind out a jammy draw with City and everything will be on track again. Such a joke.

 

[GregM40]

What is Martin Edwards doing there? Can he coach defence?

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

It makes no sense to keep him unless he is now the 'care taker'

I will watch these games and root hard for my team, but the results will feel kind of hollow until we have a new manager in place.

 

[UnitedSofa]

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Fergie is starting centre-back on Saturday I read. He was at Carrington today brushing off his old shin guards.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

3 games feck me. Whenever you think this club can't be anymore clueless, they come out and do things like this. Shambles.

It's idiotic. Why the feck is Woodward involved with this?

 

[Blood Mage]

If beating Spurs counts as turning this around then the club is well and truly fecked.

That's genuinely how our board thinks. Every win buys him more time. The only reason he wasn't sacked the morning after the Pool thrashing was because the Atalanta win gave him more credit in the bank in the board's minds.

 

[Real Name]

So getting embarrassed by Liverpool wasnt enough. Board wants us to get embarrassed by City too.

 

[united_99]

He has been one of the problems. Obviously, the main culprit is Ed for listening for Ole (he had no say for Moyes), but the fact remains that half of the time since SAF left, it was wasted on managers he recommended. Incidentally, those two are also the only managers to not win anything.



They did not fail more. LVG won a trophy, Jose won two. Both of them spent less than Ole and were given less time than Ole. LVG managed to qualify for UCL in his first season, he missed the second on GD. Jose managed to qualify for UCL in both seasons.

Anyway, even two past it fossil managers, that were not recommended by SAF, still won 3 trophies in around the same amount of time that SAF managers won nothing.


Kids he has no intention to play, and whom we have no idea if the new manager will play them. So why is that good?

Look, I am not saying that we need to kill SAF, or not sing his name, or ban him from Old Trafford, or from United parties, or even remove his seat. Nope. I am just saying that we should not listen to him for managerial appointments. Same as how Liverpool does not listen to Dalglish, or Real did not listen to Di Steffano. Give him love and respect, but he should not play any role in managerial/player appointments.

I really don’t care about tin pot cups. We don’t spend so much money just for that, especially when you finish 5th or 6th in the league.
So if the next manager finishes 5th and 6th but wins the FA Cup it would be acceptable?
A top 4 finish plus a cup at the same time would at least mean a decent season.
Or if you finish outside top 4 then at least do a Benitez or Di Matteo and win the big Cup.
Also hilarious how you keep ignoring the inflation in transfer fees.
Great to know we got Keane in 1993 for peanuts then, such a small fee in today’s market.