Ole Gunnar Solskjaer | W15 D2 L4

Is Ole a good appointment?

  • Total voters
    2,659
I say the club should give Ole just 1 year contract for next season, with option to extend decided by club for +2 years.

Expect a backlash for that, but think about it -- it wouldn't be right to sack a United legend isn't it, especially one who is known for his good behaviors. Even Moyes removing the backroom staff left a bad taste.
+ IF it turns out Ole is not the right fit for the job that is.

Call it a contingency plan if you will.
Transfer dealings, long term player management (especially big headed ego players) and tactical application (I'm convinced already of his tactical knowledge but just that the delay to make changes in that recent Wolves game is discouraging), all three of those are still question marks.

Alternative to him failing while the club is giving him 2 or more years contract, is to play with words, turning "sack" into "agreeable termination of contract" instead or "Ole resigning" as official statement. May have some minimizing effect to reputations, but still people are smart knowing that bs is just a cover, that would bring backlash to the club for multiple reasons like eg. not planning ahead, no strategic long term planning, hiring the wrong guy in the first place, etc etc.

Everything's fine if Ole continue proving he's the right manager.
If not and if next season is that terrible with Ole making a lot of bizarre decisions, then the club could simply let him manage until the end of next season, just for a year. Easy solution, then try different manager. That said, hopefully club do not only watch results, but to see how Ole manages the team -- if all (or almost all) of his decisions are spot-on, but for some reason players still play rubbish, then likely the players are downing tools, so we then know where the real problem is.

EDIT: Worse case scenario is maybe club giving him 2 or more years contract, and Ole failing but surviving ala Spurs/Arsenal, with the club letting it be, wasting 2+ years, to keep good reputations with the fans or whatever reasons eg. consistent top 4 (3rd/4th places finish).
 
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles...olskjaer-is-not-the-nicest-bloke-in-the-world
Ryan Giggs: Ole Gunnar Solskjaer Is 'Not the Nicest Bloke in the World'

Giggs recalled Solskjaer's comment to Rio Ferdinand soon after the defender signed from Leeds United in 2002.

When Ferdinand lost control of a long pass in training, Solskjaer told the new record signing: "Is this all you get for £30 million these days?"

"See, he's not the nicest bloke in the world like people say he is and that's because we rubbed off on him," said Giggs. "Ole was the nicest guy in the world until we got hold of him. When you got in that environment with us it was a tough school and you changed. You had to. That day with Rio we were just testing a new player and if Ole hadn't said it then someone else would have. That's what it was like. Every day. It helped us to win."
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:lol: Love to see Ole do this in training, with the current squad. Can they take it, or get sensitive about it?
 
Half way through international break, hopefully we roll right over Watford on the weekend. Every game is like a final now, nervous but exciting times ahead.
 
bond19821982 said:
Come on now, our lack of awareness or incapability to defend is a gift now? We were shit and had no idea how to play when Pogba was marked in midfield .

What did Ole do to counter Poch's tactical change ?

And Its the same Chelsea who got beaten 4-0, 6-0 later. So it says more about Spurs who bottled it rather than Chelsea .
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Poch's tactical change didn't have any effect until our guys were worn out, like clockwork, around the 60th or 65th minute. That was predictable as had been noted in matches previous to that, and Poch still didn't get a goal out of it. Ole couldn't counter Poch's tactical change because his players were gassed. But we're allowed to have a good goalkeeper.
 
Rifer said:
I say the club should give Ole just 1 year contract for next season, with option to extend decided by club for +2 years.

Expect a backlash for that, but think about it -- it wouldn't be right to sack a United legend isn't it, especially one who is known for his good behaviors. Even Moyes removing the backroom staff left a bad taste.
+ IF it turns out Ole is not the right fit for the job that is.

Call it a contingency plan if you will.
Transfer dealings, long term player management (especially big headed ego players) and tactical application (I'm convinced already of his tactical knowledge but just that the delay to make changes in that recent Wolves game is discouraging), all three of those are still question marks.

Alternative to him failing while the club is giving him 2 or more years contract, is to play with words, turning "sack" into "agreeable termination of contract" instead or "Ole resigning" as official statement. May have some minimizing effect to reputations, but still people are smart knowing that bs is just a cover, that would bring backlash to the club for multiple reasons like eg. not planning ahead, no strategic long term planning, hiring the wrong guy in the first place, etc etc.

Everything's fine if Ole continue proving he's the right manager.
If not and if next season is that terrible with Ole making a lot of bizarre decisions, then the club could simply let him manage until the end of next season, just for a year. Easy solution, then try different manager. That said, hopefully club do not only watch results, but to see how Ole manages the team -- if all (or almost all) of his decisions are spot-on, but for some reason players still play rubbish, then likely the players are downing tools, so we then know where the real problem is.

EDIT: Worse case scenario is maybe club giving him 2 or more years contract, and Ole failing but surviving ala Spurs/Arsenal, with the club letting it be, wasting 2+ years, to keep good reputations with the fans or whatever reasons eg. consistent top 4 (3rd/4th places finish).
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I'm in total agreement that a short contract is the best route to go down. Two years and if he does well, extend it. If things go South, at least he and the club can move on quickly.

He deserves the job obviously, but I'm still not certain he's the man to take us to the next level.
 
VP89 said:
Not at all. Tottenham weren't anywhere near as polished under Sherwood as they became under Poch. Even since then he's signed the likes of Trippier, Delli Ali, Eric Dier, Alderweirald, Wanyama, Son, Lucas, Davis, Sissoko, and D. Sanchez. All of these players play a role towards the squad he's built. To put the efforts of what he has built down to him "inheriting most of his best players" is a lazy argument.

Yeah, he hasn't won anything but Ole hasn't either so when looking between these two best candidates we can't really knock points off Poch for failing to win silverware.

Regarding fortune if he's managed to get into the Champions League for 3 consecutive seasons(?) with a net spend of 30m I think his skill-set has more than luck. Sure there is no trophy for such an achievement but it's impressive nonetheless when you have 3 other clubs spending 300-500m more than you have on their squads.

I want to see how Poch does with a budget with this in mind. Doesn't have to be at our club, it can be somewhere else (just not with a domestic rival!)
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I think that the use of net spend here is a little bit disingenuous. He's actually spent 262m on the players he's bought into the team. That most of the money was raised by selling dead wood (or, at least, players who didn't fit his vision) is not necessarily a sign of his skill as a manager. Most of them were there when he arrived - the rest he bought and scrapped very quickly (which is both a bad and a good thing - poor initial choice, but rapid correction).
 
ravelston said:
I think that the use of net spend here is a little bit disingenuous. He's actually spent 262m on the players he's bought into the team. That most of the money was raised by selling dead wood (or, at least, players who didn't fit his vision) is not necessarily a sign of his skill as a manager. Most of them were there when he arrived - the rest he bought and scrapped very quickly (which is both a bad and a good thing - poor initial choice, but rapid correction).
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Even if we play this game and look at gross spend, without looking at the numbers it's fair to say he's comfortably behind City, Liverpool, Chelsea and United right?

And can you expand on the bold bit please? I listed the players that he bought since he joined - it's pretty much most of his existing squad.

Of course transfer acumen alone is not sufficient to be a top manager - but he plays a decent enough brand of football with the resources available, he broadly has the right outlook towards pressers, he very much builds towards the long term and I believe he shows progression as he grows into the role he's given.

I feel like there are large parts of the caf that really dislike Poch. If he spends well it's not down to him. If he leads a side to comfortably outplay the European Champions home+away in group games it's not given half as much attention as if he loses on knock-outs to the Italian champions. If he comfortably dispatches of Bundasliga leaders with half the tie to go, it's not given as much attention as if he loses in the semi's of the Carabao cup.

People will pick a side and that's fine, but if you're going to discount Poch I think you'll need to do better than "most of them were there when he arrived" or trying to point to 262m like it's suddenly a big figure to spend cumulatively since 2014.
 
VP89 said:
Even if we play this game and look at gross spend, without looking at the numbers it's fair to say he's comfortably behind City, Liverpool, Chelsea and United right?

And can you expand on the bold bit please? I listed the players that he bought since he joined - it's pretty much most of his existing squad.

Of course transfer acumen alone is not sufficient to be a top manager - but he plays a decent enough brand of football with the resources available, he broadly has the right outlook towards pressers, he very much builds towards the long term and I believe he shows progression as he grows into the role he's given.

I feel like there are large parts of the caf that really dislike Poch. If he spends well it's not down to him. If he leads a side to comfortably outplay the European Champions home+away in group games it's not given half as much attention as if he loses on knock-outs to the Italian champions. If he comfortably dispatches of Bundasliga leaders with half the tie to go, it's not given as much attention as if he loses in the semi's of the Carabao cup.

People will pick a side and that's fine, but if you're going to discount Poch I think you'll need to do better than "most of them were there when he arrived" or trying to point to 262m like it's suddenly a big figure to spend cumulatively since 2014.
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I think the brigade against Poch only really surfaced after it was clear that OGS is a succes(so far anyway). Before then everyone was creaming at the idea of him being our manager. Now we are only 3 points behind Spurs, so there is really no reason for us to want to replace OGS with Poch.
 
Shamana said:
I think the brigade against Poch only really surfaced after it was clear that OGS is a succes(so far anyway). Before then everyone was creaming at the idea of him being our manager. Now we are only 3 points behind Spurs, so there is really no reason for us to want to replace OGS with Poch.
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I'm a bit wary of using Ole's time to estimate and compare to Poch. Whilst Ole will have had a lot of games to prove his worth before the season's end, his win % is not sustainable so it'll be risky to extrapolate from what we've seen so far.
 
Shamana said:
I think the brigade against Poch only really surfaced after it was clear that OGS is a succes(so far anyway). Before then everyone was creaming at the idea of him being our manager. Now we are only 3 points behind Spurs, so there is really no reason for us to want to replace OGS with Poch.
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A lot will still depend on the structure of the club going forward as well in terms of transfers philosophies and playing style and of course top 4 race until the end.

We should take any decision at the end of the campaign. If the right structure and signings dont follow up deciding an permanent manager will be tricky with the currently existing structure. Ole has done great and is definitely learning more about the players till the end, but without the right structure I wouldn't have total confidence with Woodward and less experienced manager like ole planning the structure and signings while play style and football cohesiveness and sexiness is also an area we have to work on under any new manager. We have ground out great results though we have to play much better as a team and evolve to be the sum greater than its parts which we are felling short at the moment and pochh has more experience in that category with the way his teams have played.

Though the balance is now certainly in ole's favour I am of the view we should still keep all our options open until the end of the season and then reach a final conclusion.
 
Don't know where to put this, since he is part of first team, maybe here?...

Anyone knows anything about it?
Maybe I should have put it in a new thread?..
 
For what it's worth DM are saying it will be official soon(ish). Chris Wheeler reporting it.
 
Samid said:
Disappointing. Ole's first real test was to reunite the club, not make people leave the club.
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Are you familiar with this guy's role, or reasons for leaving?
It's hardly Moyes kicking a championship winning backroom out.
 
You can’t read too much into a member of staff whose role is pretty much deemed ancillary to the first team. More reputable names in that field like Valter Di Salvo have left us and not really affected us.
 
VP89 said:
Even if we play this game and look at gross spend, without looking at the numbers it's fair to say he's comfortably behind City, Liverpool, Chelsea and United right?

And can you expand on the bold bit please? I listed the players that he bought since he joined - it's pretty much most of his existing squad.

Of course transfer acumen alone is not sufficient to be a top manager - but he plays a decent enough brand of football with the resources available, he broadly has the right outlook towards pressers, he very much builds towards the long term and I believe he shows progression as he grows into the role he's given.

I feel like there are large parts of the caf that really dislike Poch. If he spends well it's not down to him. If he leads a side to comfortably outplay the European Champions home+away in group games it's not given half as much attention as if he loses on knock-outs to the Italian champions. If he comfortably dispatches of Bundasliga leaders with half the tie to go, it's not given as much attention as if he loses in the semi's of the Carabao cup.

People will pick a side and that's fine, but if you're going to discount Poch I think you'll need to do better than "most of them were there when he arrived" or trying to point to 262m like it's suddenly a big figure to spend cumulatively since 2014.
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The bolded bit referred to the players he sold, not the ones he bought.

There's no doubt that he bought well - and when he didn't he rapidly rectified the mistake. A well spent 262m makes our 600m or so in the same period look a little silly.

Any problems I have with him are on the playing side - primarily that he's just never demonstrated himself to be a winner. A winner would never have made the "trophies are for the ego" comment, and it's a mind set that's certainly not consistent with our values. Could managing here turn him into a winner or is he just a (much higher level) Moyes who'd be overwhelmed by the club - maybe we'll see soon or maybe we'll never know. If he comes I'll support him but I see OGS as a much safer choice.
 
ravelston said:
The bolded bit referred to the players he sold, not the ones he bought.

There's no doubt that he bought well - and when he didn't he rapidly rectified the mistake. A well spent 262m makes our 600m or so in the same period look a little silly.

Any problems I have with him are on the playing side - primarily that he's just never demonstrated himself to be a winner. A winner would never have made the "trophies are for the ego" comment, and it's a mind set that's certainly not consistent with our values. Could managing here turn him into a winner or is he just a (much higher level) Moyes who'd be overwhelmed by the club - maybe we'll see soon or maybe we'll never know. If he comes I'll support him but I see OGS as a much safer choice.
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There is little doubt in my mind that Poch wants silverware in the long term for a club like Tottenham. If he were managing United or Real he'd no doubt accept the duration for that target is considerably shortened.

Also the caf enjoys taking quotes out of context to beat managers with a stick with it. I'm not saying that's what you're doing in your sole evaluation of him, but I do think he had his priorities right in the season. Here is the full quote:

"Again we're going to have the debate whether a trophy will take the club to the next level. I don't agree with it. It only builds your ego. The most important thing for Tottenham right now is to always be in the top four."

To say trophies only builds egos is a stretch too far no doubt, but any sensible person knows what he's trying to say. Of course it's part of his target but the most important target is rightfully going to be top 4. It was likely his way of distracting from the question and saying "but look at my league position" and keeping it positive. I don't think Poch is fine without winning trophies, he's likely pissed off at it. He's come to the latter stages often enough in the FA Cup and in the Carabao Cup, finished top 3 and taken the best of Europe toe to toe in multiple games. I honestly never thought I'd see Tottenham doing that in 10 years let alone 5 when they had Sherwood.
 
VP89 said:
"Again we're going to have the debate whether a trophy will take the club to the next level. I don't agree with it. It only builds your ego. The most important thing for Tottenham right now is to always be in the top four."

To say trophies only builds egos is a stretch too far no doubt, but any sensible person knows what he's trying to say. Of course it's part of his target but the most important target is rightfully going to be top 4. It was likely his way of distracting from the question and saying "but look at my league position" and keeping it positive. I don't think Poch is fine without winning trophies, he's likely pissed off at it. He's come to the latter stages often enough in the FA Cup and in the Carabao Cup, finished top 3 and taken the best of Europe toe to toe in multiple games. I honestly never thought I'd see Tottenham doing that in 10 years let alone 5 when they had Sherwood.
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Imagine if Moyes said the same thing during his tenure at Sociedad/Sunderland/West Ham? Or for the better, Mourinho saying the same thing? They would be lynched and ridiculed on here to no end. Why would Pochettino deserve a different treatment? Because he is still the flavor of the month/year? :rolleyes:
 
tieunhilang said:
Imagine if Moyes said the same thing during his tenure at Sociedad/Sunderland/West Ham? Or for the better, Mourinho saying the same thing? They would be lynched and ridiculed on here to no end. Why would Pochettino deserve a different treatment? Because he is still the flavor of the month/year? :rolleyes:
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Poch is obviously a different kettle of fish in wharves achieved. Stop brining it to a mindless comparison versus David Moyes.
 
VP89 said:
Also the caf enjoys taking quotes out of context to beat managers with a stick with it. I'm not saying that's what you're doing in your sole evaluation of him, but I do think he had his priorities right in the season. Here is the full quote:

"Again we're going to have the debate whether a trophy will take the club to the next level. I don't agree with it. It only builds your ego. The most important thing for Tottenham right now is to always be in the top four."
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The press had a field day with that one and I even heard it mocked on the radio here in the States. It wasn't just here at the Caf. But...

Of course he was beaten over the head with it here, because he's been named a candidate for United. If not, it would have been made fun of for what it was (I knew what he meant, and I think most people did, but it really came out badly) and everyone would have moved on within a week.

But that episode was just one of several during that time period that make me question Poch's suitability for United because of his manner in the press. Yes, he can do, and does, a great interview and press conference, he's very intelligent, but sometimes he's a bit unpolished and his off-the-cuff remarks can easily be taken wrong. He's too honest at the wrong times and I think he kind of caves under that kind of pressure. Maybe I'm wrong.

I really think Poch is in a great place right now to become Spurs' "legendary manager*," if you will. A lot will depend on ownership and their transfer plays going forward. I don't think he could be that at United and, unfortunately, I'm not sure he wants to be that at Tottenham.

What I'd really love to see is Ole and Poch battling for trophies every year whilst keeping Pool and City firmly under their heels.

* Not being a lifelong English football fan, nor a Spurs fan, I'm assuming the only candidate is Bill Nicholson, who will be the only post-war manager with more games than Pochettino at the end of this season, though Nicholson had a lower (but very respectable) win percentage.
 
No Idea For Nickname said:
Don't know where to put this, since he is part of first team, maybe here?...

Anyone knows anything about it?
Maybe I should have put it in a new thread?..
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Head of strength & fitness no? Given our players seem horribly unfit compared to our rivals and we've had issues with players seemingly putting on too much weight, I'd say a good move...
 
Adisa said:
I don't see the point of announcing bit now.
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It's happening anyway so I don't see the point in not announcing it now. Must be easier to convince players like Herrera to sign new deals if they know there will be continuity with the management team.
 
I'd be more excited for Ole if he were taking over a finely tuned squad, like the inexperienced Zidane did at Madrid. I believe deep down that the powers that be knew and still know that Poch is the type of manager we need at this time. Proven track record of meeting expectations and more importantly of developing talent. And maybe even more importantly for our mediocre owners, doing it all on a relatively limited budget.

Being as incompetent as they are has left them in a situation where they couldn't hire Poch now if they wanted to, and instead will hand the keys over to an old familiar face that conjures up the romantic feelings of past eras. So insecure (and rightly so) in their own poor decisions of the past 6 years that they'll have no choice but to succumb to emotion over logic. You'll have to forgive me for thinking this might not end well.
 
ForestRGoinUp said:
I'd be more excited for Ole if he were taking over a finely tuned squad, like the inexperienced Zidane did at Madrid. I believe deep down that the powers that be knew and still know that Poch is the type of manager we need at this time. Proven track record of meeting expectations and more importantly of developing talent. And maybe even more importantly for our mediocre owners, doing it all on a relatively limited budget.

Being as incompetent as they are has left them in a situation where they couldn't hire Poch now if they wanted to, and instead will hand the keys over to an old familiar face that conjures up the romantic feelings of past eras. So insecure (and rightly so) in their own poor decisions of the past 6 years that they'll have no choice but to succumb to emotion over logic. You'll have to forgive me for thinking this might not end well.
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Although I agree with you on stupid decisions with managers/players in the past but you seem to think giving Poch the job will be a guaranteed success and won't end like the previous guaranteed winner, you also have to remember we'd have to pay 40 mil or something close to that to bring poch here. Which in it self is just stupid considering he's no pep or even a brilliant manager. Our previous managers also had good track record of meeting expectations and actually winning trophy's but they failed at United, so not sure how you could conclude Poch will be a success since the previous two managers were more successful and had far more experience (not saying poch will fail here but just not sure how you can be confident of that).
 
AJ10 said:
Although I agree with you on stupid decisions with managers/players in the past but you seem to think giving Poch the job will be a guaranteed success and won't end like the previous guaranteed winner, you also have to remember we'd have to pay 40 mil or something close to that to bring poch here. Which in it self is just stupid considering he's no pep or even a brilliant manager. Our previous managers also had good track record of meeting expectations and actually winning trophy's but they failed at United, so not sure how you could conclude Poch will be a success since the previous two managers were more successful and had far more experience (not saying poch will fail here but just not sure how you can be confident of that).
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I don't see Poch as a guarantee, but I see him for what he is and what he has done in the PL. I think he has met or exceeded the expectations put in front of him at both stops so far in the Premier League, so I hesitate to think that if the expectations were for him to win trophies here,and they would be, that he wouldn't achieve it.

At Southampton he took them to their highest points total and finish in year 1. He has made Spurs into a team (not club) that has been consistently better than Manchester United during his reign. That alone is astonishing, but of course you can account for our own ineptitude. At the same time, he has more than proven that he can develop the hell out of young players, consistently win with "cheap" players, and do it all while playing a proactive brand of football. Most of the time, teams with lower budgets will resort to low-block defending and counter attacks, but he's built a team that can play with just about anyone in Europe on their day. Combining his proven track record of developing players, his style of play AND a significantly bigger budget seems a no-brainer.

That being said, I get why Ole is going to get the job. But among the footballing reasons, I imagine, is also a fear of supporter/media backlash if he was not to get the job at this point. And that to me makes the entire situation feel too reactive - which has been our issue since Fergie. If their intention was to get Poch all along, and now they're forced to go with Ole (their own doing) then I can just see a weird dynamic developing between Ole and the ownership.
 
ForestRGoinUp said:
I'd be more excited for Ole if he were taking over a finely tuned squad, like the inexperienced Zidane did at Madrid. I believe deep down that the powers that be knew and still know that Poch is the type of manager we need at this time. Proven track record of meeting expectations and more importantly of developing talent. And maybe even more importantly for our mediocre owners, doing it all on a relatively limited budget.

Being as incompetent as they are has left them in a situation where they couldn't hire Poch now if they wanted to, and instead will hand the keys over to an old familiar face that conjures up the romantic feelings of past eras. So insecure (and rightly so) in their own poor decisions of the past 6 years that they'll have no choice but to succumb to emotion over logic. You'll have to forgive me for thinking this might not end well.
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Good post, I agree.
 
Frank Grimes said:
I'll be disappointed if Solskjaer is our next manager, he's done well in his interim role and I love him but I have serious doubts he is the required standard.
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I felt the same but after the PSG result feel like we've got to give him a chance now.

There aren't many alternatives and he's a low-risk bet. If Poch got the job they'd be hounding him after every defeat asking why OGS didn't get the job.

We should give him a two-year contract and see how he goes. Poch will still be available in a year's time it seems.
 
JohnnyKills said:
I felt the same but after the PSG result feel like we've got to give him a chance now.

There aren't many alternatives and he's a low-risk bet. If Poch got the job they'd be hounding him after every defeat asking why OGS didn't get the job.

We should give him a two-year contract and see how he goes. Poch will still be available in a year's time it seems.
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Not quite sure Poch would just be sitting around waiting to make a deal with the dopes who (probably) had him believing he was theirs, only to have the rug yanked out from under him. Could be wrong though.
 
ForestRGoinUp said:
Don’t think it’s that easy. Poch is a certainty to develop talent. It can’t be denied. How could we know if Solskjaer will develop talent at Poch’s level?
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Uhm. Don't want to exaggerate my point here, but Ole was coaching our U21's too. He should know a thing or two about it. I believe he was the first coach to play Pogba in the more advanced midfield position on the left, before he left us and continued in that role for Juventus. I could be wrong but I seem to remember Ole claiming this himself a few years ago.
 
MikeKing said:
Uhm. Don't want to exaggerate my point here, but Ole was coaching our U21's too. He should know a thing or two about it. I believe he was the first coach to play Pogba in the more advanced midfield position on the left, before he left us and continued in that role for Juventus. I could be wrong but I seem to remember Ole claiming this himself a few years ago.
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Ok...but I mean giving Pogba a little more freedom in a U21 setup vs. supplying virtually half of England's best World Cup team in a pretty long time.
 
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