Yes that is the sign of progress! A new left back too I guess.
Maybe splash 60 on Bertrand or 100 on Chilwell?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Yes that is the sign of progress! A new left back too I guess.
Maybe splash 60 on Bertrand or 100 on Chilwell?
They are too good going forward. We have to find some more defensively sound.
He's won less matches than David Moyes.
It's fair to say Ole might have a plan for the future, but is it more important than the present?
It's fair to say Ole might have a plan for the future, but is it more important than the present?
You just have to laugh and anyone still backing him take a bow. Better man than most of us.
Yup. It's about par for what you expect from our team. What I expect from our players from now until the end of the season is pretty much games like yesterday. Create some chances, if we take an early one probably grind out a win. If not, probable loss. Toss of a coin every game, because the players left with McTominay, Pogba and Rashford out for most of what's left of the season are firmly mid table. So I'd expect our results to be mid table.
I mean, if we seriously break down every player and how theyve performed, what does it look like?
De Gea - massive decline since the start of 2019. I usually separate GK performances from the manager in charge.
Wan Bissaka - new signing, brilliant defensively, not great going forward but shown improvements. As expected?
Lindelof - I'm gonna say as expected/no change. Hes not a good player, doesn't have any good qualities, so many weaknesses. Cant see him turning quality with anyone in charge.
Maguire - solid player, overpriced. As expected?
Shaw - injury prone as he always has been. Decent when gets a run of games.
Defence overall - good from open play at restricting chances. Horrendous from set pieces, which I put down to coaching.
Pogba - injured all year, might as well be one of those we sold and didnt replace.
McTominay - was brilliant and massive improvement, until no depth (matic was injured) meant we couldn't rest him and he got injured for a while.
Fred - finally showed improvement and looks a good player. Probably not starter level all the same, but improved.
Matic - declining, was injured, came back in with injuries and improved himself to a decent level. Probably leaving in the summer.
Pereira - never showed anything other than being a garbage player. Coaching fault to play him so much.
Lingard - massive decline in 2019. Is it down to coaching though, or a lack of talent that we always knew?
Mata - on the decline for a few years, used sparingly. As expected, shouldn't have had his contract extended.
Midfield overall - no creativity in those players without Pogba, leading to expected performances. Poor depth. Poor quality of players, but not really unexpected or down to coaching not getting the most of them.
Rashford - borderline world class this season, massive step up, despite playing through injuries. Injuries came about because of no depth.
Martial - improved this season with regular game time and forming partnership with Rashford... possibly not quite good enough in the end. Not the best service into him & Rashford considering it's just them two.
James - young player from the championship nobody knew about, thrust into playing every game for Man United. Started off well, but shouldn't be more than squad player. As expected.
Greenwood - impressive youngster, Ole being careful not to burn him out which is fair.
Attack overall - better performances than expected, struggling with poor service, quality and creativity behind them, over reliance on Martial and Rashford to both stay fit, as no depth past them.
Basically the point is that from an individual level, this isn't an underperforming squad. The set pieces is down to shit coaching, true, but in general it's what you'd expect looking at the personnel. How we arrived to this squad situation is also probably not down to Ole, at least not entirely (or even mainly). Thats down to Woodward and the board. That's where the blame should lie. Is Ole going to build a team of title winners? Probably not. But right now I dont see anyone doing any differently with this group. With a better group, the level we could reach is higher with someone like Pochettino though.
I don't think they are as bad as this though. I think it's down to coaching and tactics.
He sounds increasingly like Moyes actually. The "I can't believe I've got this job as I am clearly out of my depth" type demeanor.
I agree with you that the current squad fully fit should be top 4, but on the same token I would rather be fighting for the league and to do that we have to behave like our counterparts. So I believe the comparison is a just one.
Moyes did inherit a squad of world class champions, lets not forget that. Ole has inherited 7 years of collective rejects.
Ole spent 150m on transfers and he has taken us from 6th last season to 5th with his new additions. How would you have spent 150m to make this side look like the 4th or 3rd best team in the league?
Personally I'd sign AWB for 45m, get Ziyech with his 25m release clause and get Bruno for 55m. I would have kept Lukaku and Smalling for at least one season till a suitable replacement was available.
How would you guys have spent the 150m given to Ole?
Personally I'd sign AWB for 45m, get Ziyech with his 25m release clause and get Bruno for 55m. I would have kept Lukaku and Smalling for at least one season till a suitable replacement was available.
How would you guys have spent the 150m given to Ole?
This is a question for our longer supporting fans. I seem to remember ole was the youth team coach and we suddenly brought in a load of Scandinavian kids who turned out, at best, to be very average and we weren’t playing particularly well at the time either at 18s level.
Is my memory serving me right here?
Is my memory serving me right here?
It’s a tough one mate, players values are so overhyped today specially when a prem club with all the tv revenue money comes knocking in your door.
Ofcourse they are. The board would be more than happy as long as the manager is not calling them out on their bullshit
People bring up injuries as if we weren’t as shit when the injured players were available.
It’s Pogba really. Without him our creativity is extremely lacking. This season might have been very different had he not been injured so early on.
I’d really like to see this team get settled with no injuries for a while, Pogba, Rashford, McTominay, all big players for us, with the first two being our two best players full stop. It’s really tough, I think we’re good at full strength but have no depth. No depth means players being overplayed and becoming fatigued.
Last night the players looked exhausted, depleted, and some of them carrying knocks, everyone is suffering. It’s not the normal state of the team, they’re running on fumes already. We can blame Ole but the fact is he has little choice. We rest our best players and lose, or play them and watch them run themselves in to the ground. He can’t afford to lose, because just look at the reaction here every time it happens. Every manager we get is going to run in to the exact same problem, we just need numbers.
Ding, ding ding.
We were fully fit at the start of the season, what did we see? Essentially midtable, inconsistent results. This is the ceiling of this manager and this squad combined. A better manager would have this squad performing better. Ole would have a better squad performing better. A better manager would have a better squad in the top 2-3. Guess which of those three scenarios is the easiest one to make a reality?
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A better manager would have this squad performing better. >
I would like Ole to go. If it is not sorted out the next couple of games, meaning players in during January. Then, I would like Poch or someone else to come in for two reasons :
a) To see if it fixes things. Personally i don`t think so. There are four managers mentioned : Appointing 1 - Nuno Santo (a counter attacking manager that is not proven towards lower teams) : and why would he even come ? He has his own Portuguese project at Wolves. 2 - Brendan Rodgers, why would he come ? He is at a club with good (great) atmosphere and good players (and probably do not want to risk that at another Liverpool type of project when his renomee is good again).
3 - Alegri ? Italian manager, can be risky, never know what you get. Juve, and a rebuild at Man Utd are two completely different beasts. 4 - Poch, he is highly regarded by Man Utd fans and in the end has everything to loose. United fans will probably give him some time (then again, it has been seven years and will he be able to win and grind matches back to back, so time will be ticking, even for Poch. Tick, tack, tick, .. tack).
.. and the next reason ..
b) So that I too can become toxic. I long for it. I am too emotionally connected to the manager (Ole). I want a manager i can rant at, one i can bully and towards one i can say `said so i know better` ..
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I see similarities with my Blackburn Rovers and Man Utd, clueless owners (didn`t even at BRFC think it was possible to be relegated at the time), and they are still there committed as if that were to be something of a good thing, and it is maybe not as toxic, but it is divided and more of a resigned atmosphere (measured towards what it could have been)
Liverpool have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Henry as it`s owner, Blackburn have Venkys and Man Utd have Glaziers. I wish you all the best in the future ahead.
a) To see if it fixes things. Personally i don`t think so. There are four managers mentioned : Appointing 1 - Nuno Santo (a counter attacking manager that is not proven towards lower teams) : and why would he even come ? He has his own Portuguese project at Wolves. 2 - Brendan Rodgers, why would he come ? He is at a club with good (great) atmosphere and good players (and probably do not want to risk that at another Liverpool type of project when his renomee is good again).
3 - Alegri ? Italian manager, can be risky, never know what you get. Juve, and a rebuild at Man Utd are two completely different beasts. 4 - Poch, he is highly regarded by Man Utd fans and in the end has everything to loose. United fans will probably give him some time (then again, it has been seven years and will he be able to win and grind matches back to back, so time will be ticking, even for Poch. Tick, tack, tick, .. tack).
.. and the next reason ..
b) So that I too can become toxic. I long for it. I am too emotionally connected to the manager (Ole). I want a manager i can rant at, one i can bully and towards one i can say `said so i know better` ..
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I see similarities with my Blackburn Rovers and Man Utd, clueless owners (didn`t even at BRFC think it was possible to be relegated at the time), and they are still there committed as if that were to be something of a good thing, and it is maybe not as toxic, but it is divided and more of a resigned atmosphere (measured towards what it could have been)
Liverpool have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Henry as it`s owner, Blackburn have Venkys and Man Utd have Glaziers. I wish you all the best in the future ahead.
What exactly do you expect him to do!? If I was on the board of directors right now, there is no way I would sack him.
Are the players you have in the starting 11 under performing? No they are not.
Is you position in the league lower than should be expected for the group of players you have? No, it is not.
Has Ole spent hundreds of millions on bad players? No he has not.
Expectation has to be aligned with reality, and right now, for what he has to work with he has done nothing wrong.....at all.
If you expectation is you are top 4, your expectations are wrong, not the manager. If your expectation is that he returns you to 'formery glory', again, your expectations are not aligned with reality. I'm a Blackburn fan, and I can expect them to get promoted. Its unrealistic, and it doesnt change reality.
A realistic expectation is
Finish top 6.
Look after and improve the young players (who you are harming by leaving your stadium empty after 80 minutes by the way).
Improve the quality of the squad in the summer
Remove dead wood (eg Pogba)
Aim for top 4 depending on budget in 2020-21
Aside this a long term plan might be to aim for top 2. but you cannot plan for that, you have to improve on the field over a period of years, and you need a long term manager to do that.
You had Jose, you had Ole (who most of you wanted), you had Moyes (who again most of you wanted). You got Pogba, and Sanchez (who most of you wanted). So stop blaiming the manager, get behind him, do the decent thing and support your team, good or bad.
Are the players you have in the starting 11 under performing? No they are not.
Is you position in the league lower than should be expected for the group of players you have? No, it is not.
Has Ole spent hundreds of millions on bad players? No he has not.
Expectation has to be aligned with reality, and right now, for what he has to work with he has done nothing wrong.....at all.
If you expectation is you are top 4, your expectations are wrong, not the manager. If your expectation is that he returns you to 'formery glory', again, your expectations are not aligned with reality. I'm a Blackburn fan, and I can expect them to get promoted. Its unrealistic, and it doesnt change reality.
A realistic expectation is
Finish top 6.
Look after and improve the young players (who you are harming by leaving your stadium empty after 80 minutes by the way).
Improve the quality of the squad in the summer
Remove dead wood (eg Pogba)
Aim for top 4 depending on budget in 2020-21
Aside this a long term plan might be to aim for top 2. but you cannot plan for that, you have to improve on the field over a period of years, and you need a long term manager to do that.
You had Jose, you had Ole (who most of you wanted), you had Moyes (who again most of you wanted). You got Pogba, and Sanchez (who most of you wanted). So stop blaiming the manager, get behind him, do the decent thing and support your team, good or bad.
I think Ole has gone about this rebuild in a very naive manner. "Waiting for the right fit". What exactly is the right fit to him. He clearly intends to play a highline with his defenders yet he goes on to sign a slow CB to pair with another slow CB to play a highline. How is this the right fit? He wants his full backs to attack yet he signs AWB who is possibly the most limited in attack on our list of fullback targets. How is this the right fit? Martial drops deep and functions much better when he an inside forward is with him - Rashford. Yet he goes and signs James a left winger and starts playing him on the right. What exactly is the right fit to him?
Managers want players that suit their philosophy or the tactics they apply. Going by the three positions he signed, the more reasonable signing for the way we play is a good quick CB to pair with Lindelof, a left footed inside forward and a full back that is good in attacking. That seems more like the right fit to Ole's style of play. I don't doubt for a second that we would have played better if we signed these kind of players
Managers want players that suit their philosophy or the tactics they apply. Going by the three positions he signed, the more reasonable signing for the way we play is a good quick CB to pair with Lindelof, a left footed inside forward and a full back that is good in attacking. That seems more like the right fit to Ole's style of play. I don't doubt for a second that we would have played better if we signed these kind of players
How has he still not been sacked, what a joke.
Wow.
Ole is out of his depth. Burnley under Dyche are a better coached team than we are, and I am not even kidding. Is that fecking acceptable? Combine that with shocking in game management, blatant favoritism towards garbage players like Lingard, the handling of players like Gomes and Chong, absolutely horrendous football, stupid handling of injuries and you get the manager of Manchester United. Absolutely shocking state of affairs, and the charade continues.
We are actually joint 5th at present, that could change tonight if Wolves manage to get a point at Liverpool.
We could end up in 8th by the end of the next premier league games if results go wrong for us.
We could end up in 8th by the end of the next premier league games if results go wrong for us.
I'd take chris wilder
He's happy to just sit here being United manager as he knows this is the last chance of a top job. After this he's back to Molde or the likes. He's hanging on for dear life hoping he can ride this out and something will change.
Teams with worse players than ours can play better football. Our players look clueless especially against deep lying defensive lines, that comes from the manager.
yet he's happy to play the long game and won't put any pressure on the board publically to get him some new players.
He's happy to just sit here being United manager as he knows this is the last chance of a top job. After this he's back to Molde or the likes. He's hanging on for dear life hoping he can ride this out and something will change.
Teams with worse players than ours can play better football. Our players look clueless especially against deep lying defensive lines, that comes from the manager.
This is just ridiculous.
If the board really support him, where are the players???
Ffs.
If the board really support him, where are the players???
Ffs.
For a comparison of this season versus last,
2019/2020
2018/2019
2017/2018
2019/2020
2018/2019
2017/2018
just imagine how royally screwed we would be if there was a competent top 4 race going on right now. Shit had this been the top 4 race when moyes was here he wouldve prob finished top 4.
He was only the Reserve manager. Never the youth team manager.
I know half of the people in here ended up hating Mourihno , but I fully prefer Mourihno fighting with Woodward over the phone or throwing punches to the board during Interviews , showing that at the end he didnt care about getting fired .
He just wanted a better team and the support to build it.
Ole wont say a word about Woodward , he in fact deflects any blame or protests and says we are on the right track . Its totally the opposite......and is the mediocrity that is killing this club.
He just wanted a better team and the support to build it.
Ole wont say a word about Woodward , he in fact deflects any blame or protests and says we are on the right track . Its totally the opposite......and is the mediocrity that is killing this club.
It’s a terrible idea to attack your employer in public. Can only hope he’s raising the issue privately, which I’m certain he is. They didn’t listen to Mourinho either so..
This entire situation reminds me of the movie 'Dinner for Shmucks', actually.
Ole thinks he's a welcome dinner guest at this prestigious club. He puts on his manager's suit, says his manager's soundbites and pays lip service to the hosts.
He doesn't realise they're laughing at him behind his back because they know he's an unwitting human shield. The second he loses his worth, he will be disposed of and they will look for another human shield. Hopefully the next human shield at least vaguely resembles a competent football manager.
Ole thinks he's a welcome dinner guest at this prestigious club. He puts on his manager's suit, says his manager's soundbites and pays lip service to the hosts.
He doesn't realise they're laughing at him behind his back because they know he's an unwitting human shield. The second he loses his worth, he will be disposed of and they will look for another human shield. Hopefully the next human shield at least vaguely resembles a competent football manager.
At this point if he really cares about the club he needs to do it, he's going to get sacked anyway.
If he doesn't get new players he will finish 7-10th and be labelled as a failure for the rest of his life. For his own sake he let Woodward sell 2 strikers this summer and didn't replace them to keep the wage bill down, now he deserves fresh blood.
We can still do a PSG miracle turnaround. With clean sheet Romero in goal and Sterling/Jon Stones playing for them there is hope.
No idea how we should get the goals, but maybe Lingard turn it on for once. Once he get a lucky first one he might gain confidence enough for a second.
If they have Bravo in goal maybe Fred can shoot it straight at him and he makes a Buffon howler or something like that.
Against Sterling and Jesus we might beat them on pens too. Although Pep teams pretty much always win those.
In reality the chances are minimal and under 5% for sure, but City have been conceding goals without Laporte in almost all games. Hopefully he is rested and they give Stones a game thinking that it is already done.
Dude. Stop doing this to yourself.
You are setting yourself up for disappointment.
Why would anyone keep faith with finishing 4th? Do you get a trophy for 4th place?
I cannot believe our expectations at this club are now that we regard 4th place as a success. 4th place will NEVER be a success for Manchester United. Never. I don't care if we're relegated 3 times on the trot. Each and every year afterwards will be a failure until we regain our pinnacle at the top.
I can't see him going before the season ends. The board will not make themselves the center of everything. Keep Ole till the end of the season and then appoint Poch or whoever, all the attention gets diverted and their seats will be protected.
It does seem to be the case that we are destroying managers.
Moyes was comfortable and secure at Everton. We took him and finished him off. He is now a nothing manager.
We then took LVG. We finished him off and he is now retired.
We took Jose. What he does next with Spurs, remains to be seen.
Now it looks like we are going to finish off Ole's managerial career.
Perhaps the virus was not Jose or Pogba, but the club, itself.
I also want to highlight that we ejected Smalling and Lukaku. They are now doing well for their new clubs. Lukaku's club I think are currently top of their league.
I think we're going to lose our next 3 games, making it 4/4 losses in the space of 2 weeks.
I get why fans are frustrated but how they put most of the blame on Ole is absurd. At the start of the season itself, most of us expected us to out of the top four with us playing 18year olds and now that our squad is thread bare, we're gassed ? I don't care what anyone says, if this was Poch or Pep managing this squad we'd be in this same state, except more pissed.
Most of this frustration must be on the board and senior players, for 6-7 years they've been making abysmal decisions with recruitment which is the only reason why we are here, which is why Van Gaal Mourinho failed, two of the best managers in the world at some point.
I don't know if Ole is the man, I do believe a rebuild is necessary to bring back our identity in style of play and remove deadwood but I'm also worried if we'll be able to get the players we need in the summer in the current state. But for me, one thing is for sure, the owners and the players need to take the brunt of this backlash cause it din't matter who managed us this season, we'd never make top 4 with this squad and certainly not now without our best players and no depth.
Most of this frustration must be on the board and senior players, for 6-7 years they've been making abysmal decisions with recruitment which is the only reason why we are here, which is why Van Gaal Mourinho failed, two of the best managers in the world at some point.
I don't know if Ole is the man, I do believe a rebuild is necessary to bring back our identity in style of play and remove deadwood but I'm also worried if we'll be able to get the players we need in the summer in the current state. But for me, one thing is for sure, the owners and the players need to take the brunt of this backlash cause it din't matter who managed us this season, we'd never make top 4 with this squad and certainly not now without our best players and no depth.
Not against PSG. At that time I had a good feeling we could do it given PSGs record in CL knockout games.
Not as much this time, but City sometimes mess up leads too.
Although this time I don't see any goals. Even if we get a pen Martial will probably miss.
Yep I think it's fair to say the club itself is a poisoned chalice right now.
Woodward is the thing that links it all together. Ever since Fergie/Gill left it's been run like a comedy show.
We need somebody like Ralf Rangnick who's experienced at running clubs to come in and change it - not an investment banker.
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