Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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el3mel said:
These cultural changing thing has to be the funniest thing regarding his reign. I bet those who are saying that has no explanation for what this culture change is apart from playing 2 youngesters regularly (not even that many young players, just 2 of them) and selling some old players. Has our transfer policy changed? No, still overspending for players way more than worth their value. Has the type of football changed? No, still playing crap football. Has results improved? No, still as average and inconsistent as we have always been. So which culture has actually changed?
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No idea. Training intensity might have changed, but we have hardly improved our football from it. That could be from poor intense coaching though. Fitness is not better either and we get loads of injuries.
The squad is possibly more happy with our poor results than they would have been under other managers. Not sure that is a positive sign even if it might be better than the Mourinho dressing room. Although lots of players still want to leave for better things unless they get crazy wages.

The football culture and bigger picture culture from the very top is the same. For a different culture we need new owners that care about football results than about making money.
 
Paul_Scholes18 said:
I am upset cause our squad is worse and it has weakend us even more in the market. Everyone knows we are desperate to buy now so it will cost a lot more. Some of them may not be wanted, but that is on Ole too. He didn't want Fellaini who could have been something we could use as a plan B in attack.
Our main attraction is paying higher wages than the rest. Apart from that few players want to join us or stick around.
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To be honest, I rather take a hit in the results department this season to get rid of those dross you mentioned, thus changing our style of play to something more pleasing, which is what Ole is doing now. You can't tell me now that the football played currently is not way more exciting than Moyes, Van Gaal, and Mourinho less my eyes deceive me. Mourinho only had a good spell in his first half of his first full season where we were firing, then it was dross throughout. Feels like people do have short term memory.

People that can't see a plan, a style of play and some progress is the definition of results orientated. Again, we are transitioning like you said by getting rid of a certain kind of players and leaving ourselves many bodies short. Get a few more in that fits the style and I am sure we will go places. I am pretty sure we will comfortably sit in top 4 for the whole of next season. If not, then I will be Ole out too (barring any significant injuries issues).
 
To be fair if someone said pre-season we'd be without Pogba pretty much all the season so far and be sitting 5th a few points off 4th at this point, I'd have said they're living in a fantasy land. Strange season once again, the lack of consistent quality from the supposed top teams is really poor.
 
el3mel said:
These cultural changing thing has to be the funniest thing regarding his reign. I bet those who are saying that has no explanation for what this culture change is apart from playing 2 youngesters regularly (not even that many young players, just 2 of them) and selling some old players. Has our transfer policy changed? No, still overspending for players way more than worth their value. Has the type of football changed? No, still playing crap football. Has results improved? No, still as average and inconsistent as we have always been. So which culture has actually changed?
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I suggest that you send your resume to the board and ask them to sack OGS so that you can take over the reigns
 
TrueRed79 said:
Cultural reset, haha. Have you ever heard that from any other club? It's just the biggest load of crap that i have ever heard.
Ole should never have been hired, simple as. Yes he is getting rid of the dross at the club but any decent manager could have done that. The problems don't lie with Ole per se but he is part of it in that he is not good enough to be managing us. You say he could leave us primed but he could also stunt the growth of the players/squad at the same time. So to say he will leave us "absolutely primed" is as bad as your cultural reset analogy. Find it hilarious.
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SAF did a “cultural reset”. Even though he took us to 2nd place in 1987-88 he recognised that that he needed to change the drinking culture by getting rid of popular players and in the following seasons “transitional period” our league consistency and position suffered massively:

1987-88 2nd place followed by a “rebuild” “change of culture” “transition”

1988-89 11th
1989-90 13th
1990-91 6th
1991-92 2nd
1992-93 Champions
1993-94 Champions

SAF dismantled a team that were runners up because it needed to be done for the long term good. Call it a “change in culture”, “change in attitude”, call it what you like but it needed to be done and for the following two seasons there was the inevitable inconsistency.

In the 1988-89 season we came 11th and then things got worse before they got better........1989-90 season we came 13th. Many fans called for the SAF sack.

However we won the FA cup and after two inconsistent years things improved and we came 6th, then 2nd, then champions.

I know all the haters will say”how dare you compare SAF to Ole etc” but actually I am not comparing SAF and Ole I am comparing the situation that we are in and the parallels are obvious. Call it what you like “culture change”, “rebuild” but we need a squad rebuild and to approach players with a certain attitude, ambition, work ethic, age. IT TAKES TIME even the best manager in history needed time and at the time there was a campaign to get rid of fergie by the more impatient of our fans.....we weren’t 5th we were bottom half of the table!

There was no social media back then but if there had have been, then you would have seen the similar hateful posts that we see today. That is just human nature, some humans are just hateful.

Ole isn’t SAF but the situation has many parallels. History has taught us that we don’t know if Ole is the right man or not but he has embarked on a rebuild that will take a couple of seasons to reap rewards and consistency. We will know then whether he is the right man or not just like no one knew whether SAF was the right man when we were 13th. No one could have predicted that he would be knighted within nine years!

I know you haters will say SAF had a history with Aberdeen etc. and football was different then BUT it ain’t that different.......when you have been round for a while you see history repeating itself all the time and if you look back through history the human race makes the same mistakes time after time and doesn’t learn from history because of the same argument, “things are different now”, “ it doesn’t apply anymore”, “this person isn”t (insert legend name)” etc.....any excuse is used to try and ignore obvious parallels.

Get real people, some of us can see what Ole is trying to do, can see the direction and understand that it will take time to see if Ole is the man. The alternative is to get another new manager and do what? He/she would have to continue the rebuild and we wouldn’t know if he/she was the right man for another two or three years anyway and so we would up in the same situation and the “cycle of hate” would continue against someone else.
 
el3mel said:
These cultural changing thing has to be the funniest thing regarding his reign. I bet those who are saying that has no explanation for what this culture change is apart from playing 2 youngesters regularly (not even that many young players, just 2 of them) and selling some old players. Has our transfer policy changed? No, still overspending for players way more than worth their value. Has the type of football changed? No, still playing crap football. Has results improved? No, still as average and inconsistent as we have always been. So which culture has actually changed?
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None of what you write about here are related to squad culture. The cultural reboot is about getting the players to have the right focus, fight for each other, meet up on time, take care of your fitness etc. Both LVG and Herrerra has been quoted saying that "football was not the only focus at Man United". In order to win, you need every last fecker in the squad pulling in the same direction.

If you fail to grasp this, it's no wonder you moan a lot.
 
ReddBalls said:
None of what you write about here are related to squad culture. The cultural reboot is about getting the players to have the right focus, fight for each other, meet up on time, take care of your fitness etc. Both LVG and Herrerra has been quoted saying that "football was not the only focus at Man United". In order to win, you need every last fecker in the squad pulling in the same direction.

If you fail to grasp this, it's no wonder you moan a lot.
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And on what basis are we going to evaluate these mythical things? Any manager can come on and say he's changing culture by making players more focused on football and meeting on time, and the result of being poor is due to their poor quality so give me more time. How do you know these mythical things have changed under the current manager, or any different than the previous managers.

But that's what Ole supporters have to say I guess. Mythical things that can't be evaluated by any basis because the obvious things we see week in week out shout loud that absolutely nothing has changed, and likely won't change any time soon, so they have to reflect to these things to point at any kind of positive things to justify the poor outcome. They won't wake up till he gets the sack eventually by the end of the season.
 
el3mel do you not get tired of having the same arguments and rants in every single thread? Or do you just want to be seen shouting the loudest about your certain opinion, no matter the time or the place. Probably wrong thread for me to say it as its the right one for a change.
 
el3mel said:
And on what basis are we going to evaluate these mythical things? Any manager can come on and say he's changing culture by making players more focused on football and meeting on time, and the result of being poor is due to their poor quality so give me more time. How do you know these mythical things have changed under the current manager, or any different than the previous managers.

But that's what Ole supporters have to say I guess. Mythical things that can't be evaluated by any basis because the obvious things we see week in week out shout loud that absolutely nothing has changed, and likely won't change any time soon, so they have to reflect to these things to point at any kind of positive things to justify the poor outcome. They won't wake up till he gets the sack eventually by the end of the season.
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On what basis? It's kinda obvious that the group is showing more togetherness and fight.

Labelling the cultural aspect of an organisation as "myhtical" shows a severe lack of knowledge of what managing people actually is about.
 
ReddBalls said:
None of what you write about here are related to squad culture. The cultural reboot is about getting the players to have the right focus, fight for each other, meet up on time, take care of your fitness etc. Both LVG and Herrerra has been quoted saying that "football was not the only focus at Man United". In order to win, you need every last fecker in the squad pulling in the same direction.

If you fail to grasp this, it's no wonder you moan a lot.
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Of course this is just my interpretation, but I think they're more talking about the board and the overall focus of the club, being less a football club and more a big old advertising brand, than they are about players of the squad pulling in a certain direction. But I could be miles off who knows.
 
Judas said:
Of course this is just my interpretation, but I think they're more talking about the board and the overall focus of the club, being less a football club and more a big old advertising brand, than they are about players of the squad pulling in a certain direction. But I could be miles off who knows.
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That's obviously also a fair intrepetation, but seeing as a cultural reset was deemed necessary, it's also fair to suggest it had to do with the culture among players.
 
ReddBalls said:
That's obviously also a fair intrepetation, but seeing as a cultural reset was deemed necessary, it's also fair to suggest it had to do with the culture among players.
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True, think we had far too many players who were here for the money and not much else, but thats thankfully changing, and we're chasing a very different type of profile.
 
ReddBalls said:
On what basis? It's kinda obvious that the group is showing more togetherness and fight.

Labelling the cultural aspect of an organisation as "myhtical" shows a severe lack of knowledge of what managing people actually is about.
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Really? Showing more toughness than when they finished second, won El or Fa Cup? More toughness than when they made a comeback at Etihad from 0-2 down against the best City team, or when they defeated Liverpool at A field with Mata goals and defeating City later 4-2. They are more tough now and it's obviously showing with the results and urgency on losing (or lack thereof). OK I guess.
 
Judas said:
el3mel do you not get tired of having the same arguments and rants in every single thread? Or do you just want to be seen shouting the loudest about your certain opinion, no matter the time or the place. Probably wrong thread for me to say it as its the right one for a change.
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It's tiresome, he's the exact type of poster that makes me want to not bother reading the football forum. Moan, moan, moan. Anything that he disagrees with is 'laughable' or 'amusing' like he's a cultured expert of all things football. He's sat on his imaginery expert throne mocking all views that he disagrees with. He just fills the forum with negative farts.
 
RedSky said:
It's tiresome, he's the exact type of poster that makes me want to not bother reading the football forum. Moan, moan, moan. Anything that he disagrees with is 'laughable' or 'amusing' like he's a cultured expert of all things football. He's sat on his imaginery expert throne mocking all views that he disagrees with. He just fills the forum with negative farts.
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You aren't forced to read the posts. Put me on the ignore and you won't get irritated by negative views, then you can enjoy your fantasy that everything is going to be fine. It is weird how people complain about any certain poster while they can put him on the ignore and move on with their life. Any poster I don't like his posts I put on the ignore even if I had no contact with him. And this is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer thread, so of course all posts will be about him.

Again no one is forcing you to read posts. You are the one choosing to read them.
 
el3mel said:
You aren't forced to read the posts. Put me on the ignore and you won't get irritated by negative views, then you can enjoy your fantasy that everything is going to be fine. It is weird how people complain about any certain poster while they can put him on the ignore and move on with their life. Any poster I don't like his posts I put on the ignore even if I had no contact with him. And this is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer thread, so of course all posts will be about him.

Again no one is forcing you to read posts. You are the one choosing to read them.
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You spread your negativity in every thread you post in as you well know. Unfortunately we scouts try not to ignore posters so we can help point out shit posts to the staff. It's part of the 'fun' of being a scout. :)
 
RedSky said:
You spread your negativity in every thread you post in as you well know. Unfortunately we scouts try not to ignore posters so we can help point out shit posts to the staff. It's part of the 'fun' of being a scout. :)
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I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I post about Ole in his threads. It's not my problem really that there multiple threads about him in the forum which are all similar. For example what's the about of the voting thread about him being sacked or not when the vote can be done in this thread we are posting in instead of a completely separate one? Combine all the talk about him here and I won't spread negativity in multiple threads.

It's really bizarre that we have 2 previous managers who were slaughtered left, right and center here and apparently the moaning wasn't a problem back then.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Weve offered him a new contract and he rejected it.
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A contract where he would be 4th or 5th choice for 2 positions and effectively be fazed out for younger players.. He'll play every week at Inter. No hard feelings for a guy who wants 2 more years of regular starting football and a chance at winning the Serie A.
 
He's ripped out Lukaku, Sanchez, Young, Smalling, Herrera, Darmian, Fellaini, likely Pogba

and replaced them with the likes of

Greenwood, Wan Bissaka, James, Maguire, Williams, Greenwood, McTomminay (hopefully Bruno Fernandes)

We've dragged the average age right down, we're the youngest team in the PL, the team is hungrier, our front 3 have outperformed the Champions-elects front 3 consistently this season, we're improving how we spend our money, we have players who now want to play for us, want to attack.

He might not be a world class coach and an elite manager. He might not be our long-term solution. But he's scored 10/10 for me in terms of pressing a much needed reset button, clearing out some awful deadwood/players who don't really want to be here.

Zero value in sacking him now, we keep going and re-evaluate in April/May. Top managers will be available in the summer.
 
el3mel said:
I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I post about Ole in his threads. It's not my problem really that there multiple threads about him in the forum which are all similar. For example what's the about of the voting thread about him being sacked or not when the vote can be done in this thread we are posting in instead of a completely separate one? Combine all the talk about him here and I won't spread negativity in multiple threads.

It's really bizarre that we have 2 previous managers who were slaughtered left, right and center here and apparently the moaning wasn't a problem back then.
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Personally, constructive moaning is fine, having a balanced opinion where you point out a postitive(s) as well as negative(s) is good posting. I find it dull to read negative posts but as long as people remain civil it's fine. Focussing on all the negatives and belittling anyone who has a difference of opinion to yourself is tiresome. If that's your posting style then fair enough, each to their own, just personally those are the type of posts that personally irratate me is all. I do agree with some of your points too tbh. But not all of them and last time I checked, i'm not living in a fantasy land, if I were I wouldn't be on the internet right now. :D
 
RedSky said:
Personally, constructive moaning is fine, having a balanced opinion where you point out a postitive(s) as well as negative(s) is good posting. I find it dull to read negative posts but as long as people remain civil it's fine. Focussing on all the negatives and belittling anyone who has a difference of opinion to yourself is tiresome. If that's your posting style then fair enough, each to their own, just personally those are the type of posts that personally irratate me is all. I do agree with some of your points too tbh. But not all of them and last time I checked, i'm not living in a fantasy land, if I were I wouldn't be on the internet right now. :D
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For the point I don't focus on negatives only. I have given Ole credit in this same thread whenever we had a good and convincing win and whenever we had good performance even though I firmly want him out, but I came after games like Norwich away, Spurs, City, Brighton, Newcastle and Burnley and gave him credit. As for the posting style, fair enough, I would try to not use words like deluded or laughable even if it's that irritating for some, even though I was called like that myself on several points since I have joined 3 or 4 years ago and didn't feel insulted but OK. Better to avoid personal conflicts if people get annoyed by such words because as I said several times for me this is just a football forum where I post my opinions on the club and move on, nothing really more.
 
You need to get pretty inventive in order to push the narrative that the departed players left because they had a problem with Ole.

I wouldn't care much if they did, be it said (in terms of what they brought to the table, I'd say good riddance to them all *) - but the fact is that even Lukaku has said explicitly that he has nothing but respect for Ole.

* Except Herrera - but Ole didn't push him out, he wanted to keep him by all accounts (but it was too late by then).
 
RedSky said:
It's tiresome, he's the exact type of poster that makes me want to not bother reading the football forum. Moan, moan, moan. Anything that he disagrees with is 'laughable' or 'amusing' like he's a cultured expert of all things football. He's sat on his imaginery expert throne mocking all views that he disagrees with. He just fills the forum with negative farts.
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He doesn't even know what 'culture' is.
 
Kag said:
Whatever the outcome of his tenure in terms of results, we’ll look back at his time here and thank him for what he did with the squad. Another waster about to be jettisoned.
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I'm not sure 'jettison' is the term I'd use with Young, given that Ole said they had offered him two more years. I think Ole gets a bit too much credit in this regard, given his persistence with Lingard and the offering of a new contract to Phil Jones.
 
jem said:
I'm not sure 'jettison' is the term I'd use with Young, given that Ole said they had offered him two more years. I think Ole gets a bit too much credit in this regard, given his persistence with Lingard and the offering of a new contract to Phil Jones.
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I thought that was disproved?

Didn't he say actually say "we weren't offering him a two year contract"
 
Lynty said:
I thought that was disproved?

Didn't he say actually say "we weren't offering him a two year contract"
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Regardless of what today's presser was, we did offered Young a contract extension for 1 more year when Inter came and he was the one who rejected it, so the idea of him getting rid of Young is simply a false claim.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...own-man-utd-one-year-contract-extension-offer

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is keen to keep Young, who is a key leader in the United dressing room and can play in multiple positions.
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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51057084
 
Jonno said:
Zero value in sacking him now, we keep going and re-evaluate in April/May. Top managers will be available in the summer.
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This is how I want it to go as well, Ole's not the greatest manager but what he's doing with our squad in terms of integrating young players, cutting the (considerable Moyes, LVG and Mourinho) deadwood and lowering the average age of the squad is great
 
jem said:
I'm not sure 'jettison' is the term I'd use with Young, given that Ole said they had offered him two more years. I think Ole gets a bit too much credit in this regard, given his persistence with Lingard and the offering of a new contract to Phil Jones.
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There's a huge double standard. Ole gets credited with getting rid of deadwood, but absolved of responsibility for renewing deadwood. Even with Young, he clearly wanted to keep him yet now apparently he's part of Ole's amazing deadwood clearout. If Ole isn't responsible for the renewals, then he's not entirely responsible for the outgoings either, because he clearly doesn't have the full say in either - yet some posters seem to think the outgoings are all on him.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
There's a huge double standard. Ole gets credited with getting rid of deadwood, but absolved of responsibility for renewing deadwood. Even with Young, he clearly wanted to keep him yet now apparently he's part of Ole's amazing deadwood clearout. If Ole isn't responsible for the renewals, then he's not entirely responsible for the outgoings either, because he clearly doesn't have the full say in either - yet some posters seem to think the outgoings are all on him.
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Finally someone else with a similar opinion. Felt so alone today while being slaughtered left, right and central.

Anyway people were also giving credit for Ole for the signings in summer while blaming Woodward for each fallen business.
 
el3mel said:
Regardless of what today's presser was, we did offered Young a contract extension for 1 more year when Inter came and he was the one who rejected it, so the idea of him getting rid of Young is simply a false claim.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...own-man-utd-one-year-contract-extension-offer



https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51057084
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Yeah, there's no denying that...

Though I'm sure the hearty mix of Ole's At The Wheel cultists and oppo WUMs will have a go mate!

Enjoy!
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Yeah, there's no denying that...

Though I'm sure the hearty mix of Ole's Wheel cultists and oppo WUMs will have a go mate!

Enjoy!
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Didn't you see ? I have been called out and got absolutely slaughtered today. Apparently I'm the entire cause for the negativity around the club and in the forum and got everyone depressed. Watch out for yourself to not get treated like me one day. :D
 
el3mel said:
I don't get your point.
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It would have been unreasonable of us to deny him a move that would've given him an extra 2 years playing at the top level. Yet with our injuries and lack of depth, we may have need of him in the second part of the season.

Extending is contract for 1 year would've been a reasonable compromise for both parties.

So I'd consider it quite a logical offer
 
el3mel said:
I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I post about Ole in his threads.
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You could try to not have every second post in all those threads.
Don't you have a job or other hobbies? 38k posts in 3-4 years is insane.
 
Lynty said:
It would have been unreasonable of us to deny him a move that would've given him an extra 2 years playing at the top level. Yet with our injuries and lack of depth, we may have need of him in the second part of the season.

Extending is contract for 1 year would've been a reasonable compromise for both parties.
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I don't necessarily disagree. We probably didn't actually want to give him 2 more years, however at the same time it's clear according to Sky Ole didn't want to get rid of him and probably wanted to keep him for at least one year, so he didn't clear "deadwood" in such case.
 
el3mel said:
These cultural changing thing has to be the funniest thing regarding his reign. I bet those who are saying that has no explanation for what this culture change is apart from playing 2 youngesters regularly (not even that many young players, just 2 of them) and selling some old players. Has our transfer policy changed? No, still overspending for players way more than worth their value. Has the type of football changed? No, still playing crap football. Has results improved? No, still as average and inconsistent as we have always been. So which culture has actually changed?
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We are more "likable", whatever that is supposed to mean.
 
Paul_Scholes18 said:
I am upset cause our squad is worse and it has weakend us even more in the market. Everyone knows we are desperate to buy now so it will cost a lot more. Some of them may not be wanted, but that is on Ole too. He didn't want Fellaini who could have been something we could use as a plan B in attack.
Our main attraction is paying higher wages than the rest. Apart from that few players want to join us or stick around.
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And that worked out brilliantly... :rolleyes:
 
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