Surely even Ole can see that 0 shots on target for the first time isn't acceptable. He just has to demand at least two midfielders in this window because otherwise creatively we are offering
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Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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How do we spin this one?
You can’t expect someone who would be managing Molde if we hadn’t employed him to be able to do this job, it’s completely illogical. He can be given time and money but he just isn’t good enough and that will never change, sadly I think everyone at the club is incompetent enough to persist with this next season despite it being so obvious it’s a terrible idea.
Clueless. There are no words. David Brent's brother
Poch is still available.
And if we let him go to another club because we refuse to accept that Ole, for all his likeability and good intentions, simply isn't qualified for the job, that will be so hard to accept.
The club has the right plan right now, thinking long-term, trusting youth, having an English base of players. But that project isn't tied to Ole, and Poch would lead it infinitely better.
I would not hire him, as I would like a manager for us that has won trophies while playing an attacking brand of football.
Regarding Ole, I agree that he has brought good things to the club: a recapture of the old MU spirit (sometimes), trust in our academy by playing youngsters, a better, more offensive football mentality (higher tempo, more pace upfront). Personally, I like our current playing style much better than what we've seen under the previous post SAF managers. I also like the fact that he got rid of players that were not MU material (actually, I would also like to see Pogba sold as I do not like his character and I believe SAF had a reason to let him go in the first place). I consider our squad to be much better than the majority of the people posting here believe.
Nevertheless, while I enjoy the current playing style and team mentality and consider them a step forward, I do not believe OGS can win trophies for us. His track record is at least questionable, and the team's capability to unlock opposition defense and the passing patterns lack quality (this being the manager's fault, as it is a tactics issue). Unfortunately, I am pessimistic regarding our chances to place in the top 4 this season or to win a cup.
For all of the above, I think Ole would be more suitable for a DoF position, while, as manager, I would appoint Laurent Blanc, who is currently unemployed, has won a lot of trophies at Bordeaux and PSG, plays offensive football and likes to play youngsters.
I think it's vital the next manager is proven, yet has a history of developing youth and buys into the plan that was put in place by the club 12 months ago. Poch fits that description, as does Laurent Blanc (who I would've personally employed in December 2018) but there are others that should also be targeted and interviewed for the role.
Just going for a trophy winning manager who plays attacking football could be another "rip it up and start again" jobbo and that's the last thing we need.
That’s probably the worst possible way he could have responded to such minor criticism. That was really awkward.
What are you talking about.
Our pressing is non existent. The games we have won, we have defended our own half and exploited the space left by the opposition coming on to us.
It's funny but this is how I actually still have hope with Ole as our manager. To me What Ole has been doing so far is indirectly laying the ground work for Pochettino or someone like him. He's played and promoted Youth, cleared some deadwood, even implemented a pressing system as shit as it is and this is all just going to make the transition from Ole to Pochettino or someone like him smoother.
It won't be like going from Van Gaal to Mourinho. It's more of going from Ole to an advanced Ole. Literally the only problem I have with Ole is his tactics. He seems to be doing everything else well. We really just need to find someone like Ole but is tactically sound.
I think we need to be realistic.
let’s look at where we are?
We are:
-Playing dull football.
-We have the lowest points tally in premier league history.
-We have the weakest midfield we’ve had in the premier league era.
-We have a manager with the lowest win percentage we’ve ever had.
Now I’m going to look at another point of view.
Our underachieving squad threw Mourinho under the bus, we knew the attitude stunk, what the majority of fans wanted:
-Lukaka gone, we didn’t like his attitude or his first touch, he is a goal scorer though, we got it.
-Felaini gone, we got it.
-Smalling gone, we got it.
-Youngsters given a chance, we got it.
What the majority still want.
-Matic gone.
-Young gone.
-Fred gone.
-Parreira gone.
-Some also want De Gea and Shaw gone (crazy talk).
Solkjaer done exactly what we wanted and dismantled the squad but unfortunately he wasn’t backed from above.
He may be and probably isn’t good enough but with this said we will never know.
The next boss will reap the rewards of his work though, hopefully being able to build without all the dross being there.
I will draw everyone's attention to Real Madrid though, they had a bad season last year, what did they do in the summer? Signed two full backs, a central defender, two midfielders and three attackers one being Hazard. That’s ambition.
It doesn’t matter who’s in charge, we are a business first and a football team second.
let’s look at where we are?
We are:
-Playing dull football.
-We have the lowest points tally in premier league history.
-We have the weakest midfield we’ve had in the premier league era.
-We have a manager with the lowest win percentage we’ve ever had.
Now I’m going to look at another point of view.
Our underachieving squad threw Mourinho under the bus, we knew the attitude stunk, what the majority of fans wanted:
-Lukaka gone, we didn’t like his attitude or his first touch, he is a goal scorer though, we got it.
-Felaini gone, we got it.
-Smalling gone, we got it.
-Youngsters given a chance, we got it.
What the majority still want.
-Matic gone.
-Young gone.
-Fred gone.
-Parreira gone.
-Some also want De Gea and Shaw gone (crazy talk).
Solkjaer done exactly what we wanted and dismantled the squad but unfortunately he wasn’t backed from above.
He may be and probably isn’t good enough but with this said we will never know.
The next boss will reap the rewards of his work though, hopefully being able to build without all the dross being there.
I will draw everyone's attention to Real Madrid though, they had a bad season last year, what did they do in the summer? Signed two full backs, a central defender, two midfielders and three attackers one being Hazard. That’s ambition.
It doesn’t matter who’s in charge, we are a business first and a football team second.
That’s a good post & basically how I see the situation. Though some have lowered our standards & expectations so much, that missing out on top 4 and finishing top half of the table will be praised as some sort of achievement.
Take a step back and try to be objective.
We have huge problems to create chances against any team. Almost all of our goals comes from counter attacks, silly mistakes or penalties. There is no visible patterns in our attacking game. Our build ups are slow and predictable. Our possession game is average at best, mostly bad as a norm.
Our pressing game is inconsistent and sporadic. We don’t press as a team, mostly 4-5 individuals runs around until they get tired. The few times we succeed it’s mostly because of individual errors against weaker teams.
This is Ole’s team!
If we‘re weak in midfield it’s his fault. He prioritized our defense, he put all his faith in Lindelof and Maguire and he let Smalling go on loan. He sold Fellaini, didn’t replace Herrera and he thought 3 senior midfielders would be enough.
He started the season with Lingard, Mata and Pereira as offensive creators, he put all his trust in a championship players to be our only addition in a team who already has huge problems to score goals. He sold Lukaku and let Sanchez go on loan.
We don’t play as a team. We’re not synchronized. We‘re badly coached.
If you think this is good enough or promising then you and I view this game differently.
From almost 50 years of watching football, 45 years as a United supporter I can easily say that Ole don’t have what it takes to be successful in this club. His coaching abilities isn’t good enough.
Results don’t lie Gasolin.
@Mainoldo You've been beating the same drum hysterically for the last 15 years. Don't you get tired?
This was also in July 2006, we went on to score 83 goals that season, almost 20 more than anyone else because the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo finally kicked on. Maybe it's time to learn from experience and show the same patience and faith in Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and James?
Another post from 2006, this time November. Again, we went on to win the league this season and signed Tevez in the summer.
Now I'm not saying we are anywhere near winning the league, that would be ridiculous. What I am saying is that all of these posts came from 2006, a moment in time when we had a squad with players people like you thought were dross, finished or had a bit of potential but would never reach the heights a club like United should be aspiring to.
In my opinion, we're not far off that position now but for the absence of the likes of Giggs and Scholes (who you declared finished) which is a massive factor that cannot be ignored. Regardless, I still think that our squad has a strong core and has been well pruned over the last year to ensure that we can now start fleshing it out with quality and building something formidable. Whether Solskjaer will be the manager who profits from that is another debate for me because while I am sure he would love to and is trying his damned hardest to, I think his role is actually more pragmatic and more sensible. He's been asked to do a job no top manager would accept. To take on the responsibility of seeing that the likes of Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, McTominay, James, Williams, Garner, Chong and any young player with enough talent to make it here long term gets the opportunity to develop and prove themselves on the pitch.
The fact we promoted McKenna from the U23 setup and brought Phelan back in suggests to me that that is what the mission is. It's a genuine 3 year plan rather than yet another quick fix with buckets of cash. Rashford and Martial are both kicking on already this season along with McTominay, Greenwood has been a sensation, James had an amazing start and now needs to push on through this inevitable lull, Williams looks nailed on for the left back spot and even if the likes of Chong, Garner and Gomes don't make it here long term, the example we have set to the youth players that they will get to play for the first team if they are good enough and work hard enough will ripple down through the age groups and have them all twice as focused and working twice as hard.
I realise it's hard to see any positives when the team is so inconsistent but we're 3 signings away from having a side that should comfortably get top 4 next season and with another 2 or 3 signings the following year we should be looking to challenge for the title as Liverpool finish their cycle and City begin theirs.
If you can't look at that core of 14 players and their ages in 3 years time and find any hope or excitement then you should find another club or sport. If we can add 6-8 more top quality signings over the next 3 summers then we should be looking at a top quality side and one with plenty of years of growth together too. In 3 years, Salah will be 30, Firmino 31, Van Dijk 31, Mane 30 and I'd wage good money that there will be a level of physical and/or mental burn out by then under Klopp and Guardiola will be a distant memory.
That's why although I might moan about Solskjaer occasionally and moan about individual performances quite often, I'm optimistic on the whole. I don't think Solskjaer is a long term bet, I do think he's doing a very specific job right now that very few top bracket managers would be interested in doing. I expect said top bracket managers to be very interested in taking over from him in a season or two when the squad is ready to take off.
This was in July 2006. We went on to win the league this season and Scholes spent the next 7 years proving he wasn't officially past it. I think Rooney did fairly well is a striker, so that was indeed just you. We lost out on Ballack and sadly that wasn't actually the end for you because here you are 15 years later still wittering on like a cursed child.This is a bunch of bullshit, if Fergie really believes we don't need Ballack the Fergie just has to go next season because he isn't the right man to take us forward! Scholes is officially past it and is it just me or is Rooney not actually a Striker? If we lose out on Ballack thats the end for me, it's not bad enough that we lost out on Ronaldinho and Robben, never a mind a free Van Bommel last year which mad some much sense to buy him it's untrue!
I'M PISSED OFF MAN
(R.I.P George Best)
This was also in July 2006, we went on to score 83 goals that season, almost 20 more than anyone else because the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo finally kicked on. Maybe it's time to learn from experience and show the same patience and faith in Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and James?
Another post from 2006, this time November. Again, we went on to win the league this season and signed Tevez in the summer.
Now I'm not saying we are anywhere near winning the league, that would be ridiculous. What I am saying is that all of these posts came from 2006, a moment in time when we had a squad with players people like you thought were dross, finished or had a bit of potential but would never reach the heights a club like United should be aspiring to.
In my opinion, we're not far off that position now but for the absence of the likes of Giggs and Scholes (who you declared finished) which is a massive factor that cannot be ignored. Regardless, I still think that our squad has a strong core and has been well pruned over the last year to ensure that we can now start fleshing it out with quality and building something formidable. Whether Solskjaer will be the manager who profits from that is another debate for me because while I am sure he would love to and is trying his damned hardest to, I think his role is actually more pragmatic and more sensible. He's been asked to do a job no top manager would accept. To take on the responsibility of seeing that the likes of Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, McTominay, James, Williams, Garner, Chong and any young player with enough talent to make it here long term gets the opportunity to develop and prove themselves on the pitch.
The fact we promoted McKenna from the U23 setup and brought Phelan back in suggests to me that that is what the mission is. It's a genuine 3 year plan rather than yet another quick fix with buckets of cash. Rashford and Martial are both kicking on already this season along with McTominay, Greenwood has been a sensation, James had an amazing start and now needs to push on through this inevitable lull, Williams looks nailed on for the left back spot and even if the likes of Chong, Garner and Gomes don't make it here long term, the example we have set to the youth players that they will get to play for the first team if they are good enough and work hard enough will ripple down through the age groups and have them all twice as focused and working twice as hard.
I realise it's hard to see any positives when the team is so inconsistent but we're 3 signings away from having a side that should comfortably get top 4 next season and with another 2 or 3 signings the following year we should be looking to challenge for the title as Liverpool finish their cycle and City begin theirs.
De Gea(32)
Wan Bissaka(25) - Taunzebe(25) - Maguire(29) - Williams(22)
McTominay(26) - NewSigning
NewSigning
Greenwood(20) - Martial(27) - Rashford(25)
Squad: James(25), Lindelof(28), Garner(21), Chong(23)
Wan Bissaka(25) - Taunzebe(25) - Maguire(29) - Williams(22)
McTominay(26) - NewSigning
NewSigning
Greenwood(20) - Martial(27) - Rashford(25)
Squad: James(25), Lindelof(28), Garner(21), Chong(23)
If you can't look at that core of 14 players and their ages in 3 years time and find any hope or excitement then you should find another club or sport. If we can add 6-8 more top quality signings over the next 3 summers then we should be looking at a top quality side and one with plenty of years of growth together too. In 3 years, Salah will be 30, Firmino 31, Van Dijk 31, Mane 30 and I'd wage good money that there will be a level of physical and/or mental burn out by then under Klopp and Guardiola will be a distant memory.
That's why although I might moan about Solskjaer occasionally and moan about individual performances quite often, I'm optimistic on the whole. I don't think Solskjaer is a long term bet, I do think he's doing a very specific job right now that very few top bracket managers would be interested in doing. I expect said top bracket managers to be very interested in taking over from him in a season or two when the squad is ready to take off.
If all the summer signings were his Idea ,then his talent spotting and aligning it with teams need is highly questionable we already had one one fullback who wasn't good enough in attack what did we do bought another who is abysmal in attack spent a fortune on Centre back who could be best described as decent at best on the basis of showings so far.
Disagree, a fullback needs to be able to defend first and foremost, and wan bissaka is the best in the league. I keep hearing criticism about this signing though I have yet to see any alternative suggestions. City are often praised for their structure and shrewd signings, yet I haven't heard any talk about their 60m flop Cancelo, an attacking fullback who was available in the same summer as AWB. So glad we dodged that landmine.. I'm very happy with AWB.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet">
Ranking the “Top Sides” in Europe in Clear Goalscoring Sequences per 90 (out of 98):
1 – Bayern
2 – PSG
4 – Man City
6 – Liverpool
8 – Barcelona
10 – Dortmund
11 – Napoli
12 – R. Madrid
16 – Inter
18 – Juventus
22 – Chelsea
24 – A. Madrid
…
74 – Man Utd https://t.co/2UOLjyot9R
— UtdArena. (@utdarena) January 4, 2020
Ranking the “Top Sides” in Europe in Clear Goalscoring Sequences per 90 (out of 98):
1 – Bayern
2 – PSG
4 – Man City
6 – Liverpool
8 – Barcelona
10 – Dortmund
11 – Napoli
12 – R. Madrid
16 – Inter
18 – Juventus
22 – Chelsea
24 – A. Madrid
…
74 – Man Utd https://t.co/2UOLjyot9R
— UtdArena. (@utdarena) January 4, 2020
This is my favorite caf logic. We've done the "big manager shit" and that doesn't work for us. We should try this with players too. We need a striker and a midfielder? Just bring some from league 2 and let's see where it gets us, we've done the "big signing shit" and it didn't work out.
There's absolutely no point of discussing whether Ole is suited or not until there is significant investment made in the squad. If we don't get in some quality soon, no manager will be able to do much.
If no additions are made in January; its either Ole gone in the summer with someone else earmarked to be given a transfer kitty or United are skint.
If no additions are made in January; its either Ole gone in the summer with someone else earmarked to be given a transfer kitty or United are skint.
All I seem to be hearing is that he’s gotten rid of a couple of players and has given more minutes to a couple of kids instead, who haven’t really impressed me if I’m honest. That seemingly gets translated into a “long term project”. Who knows, it may still work out, but as it stands right now, I’m struggling to understand what exactly he’s done that any other manager wouldn’t have done in his situation.
I don't get this 3 years plan myth some are repeating. OK then, why didn't we give Moyes his initial 6 years plan considering the squad was getting old at this time and majority of the good players it had back then were at the end of their career (and pretty much left withing the next 2 years after him) . A massive rebuilding job and all, and he signed a 6 years contract and was acting as if he's staying long term. Why was he sacked 8 months in the job and not even given another year? Hmm you know the answer I guess, because he was out of depth and it looked like patience will be a waste of time. How is that any different from our case currently, a manager out of his depth, producing underwhelming results and football, and the squad needs a rebuilding job too but it's fine to give him several more years unlike Moyes?
And before anyone says Moyes lost the dressing room, most of the players he had problem with ended being replaced in LVG 2 years. As for the squad winning the league the previous season, as I said the squad consisted of players at the end of their career that LvG got rid of most of them in his 2 years in charge. It was a squad that made one final push for the title under Fergie and was the end of them. Scholes retired, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra all left after Moyes immediately as they were past it. Carrick and Rooney were getting old. It was as massive rebuilding job as it's now. However we decided that the manager appointed for the job was out of his depth and sacked him.
So if it's fine to be crap in present for the sake of the future why didn't we give a Moyes one additional season? Any answer that will be said can be applied on Ole and our current state easily. That's why I don't believe in this 3 years plan myth. This plan can be continued under another manager, a better one in rebuilding squads and developing yound players. It's not that hard. Ole isn't doing anything that only he can does.
And before anyone says Moyes lost the dressing room, most of the players he had problem with ended being replaced in LVG 2 years. As for the squad winning the league the previous season, as I said the squad consisted of players at the end of their career that LvG got rid of most of them in his 2 years in charge. It was a squad that made one final push for the title under Fergie and was the end of them. Scholes retired, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra all left after Moyes immediately as they were past it. Carrick and Rooney were getting old. It was as massive rebuilding job as it's now. However we decided that the manager appointed for the job was out of his depth and sacked him.
So if it's fine to be crap in present for the sake of the future why didn't we give a Moyes one additional season? Any answer that will be said can be applied on Ole and our current state easily. That's why I don't believe in this 3 years plan myth. This plan can be continued under another manager, a better one in rebuilding squads and developing yound players. It's not that hard. Ole isn't doing anything that only he can does.
It's amazing to me that Oles big controversy is that he isn't angry enough in public.
Have people forgotten he's the Baby Face Assassin
Or the red card professional foul
Have people forgotten he's the Baby Face Assassin
Or the red card professional foul
Ole is trying to reset the process in light of the ever increasing cost of players and the power the agents hold.
His vision is a team, or series of teams that are perpetually refreshed through the academy, avoiding having to rely on the transfer market, the demands of agents, and all that comes with that.
In order to do this we need to transition from the current position. This means buying only those players that can complement the approach and that will support and enable the progression of the youth players, no egos, full commitment to Manchester United. This makes it hard to identify and buy players and is why ole keeps harping on about the “right” players.
Also, we handed over £80m for Harry Maguire in cash on the basis that there would be no more business until next summer, ole bought into this hence the current conundrum.
His vision is a team, or series of teams that are perpetually refreshed through the academy, avoiding having to rely on the transfer market, the demands of agents, and all that comes with that.
In order to do this we need to transition from the current position. This means buying only those players that can complement the approach and that will support and enable the progression of the youth players, no egos, full commitment to Manchester United. This makes it hard to identify and buy players and is why ole keeps harping on about the “right” players.
Also, we handed over £80m for Harry Maguire in cash on the basis that there would be no more business until next summer, ole bought into this hence the current conundrum.
Maybe I didn't convey that point properly but I was alluding to the performance itself.
Is that why we splashed 80m on Maguire, making him the most expensive defender ever? Not to mention the 50m on AWB.
I actually think this is a very good post which lays out in a very clear way what exactly Ole supporters are expecting. It’s very well explained and I can see the logic in that line of thinking. I really do believe that there are several points where it falls apart.
1. Alex Ferguson is the greatest manager of all time, and as such, any comparison with his era and how he did things should be avoided. He was very special and a stream of ex players have already proven there is no replacing him.
2. Ferguson gradually began to delegate as he got older. He was always the boss and the best manager in the business, but he saw the value in using top quality coaches to work with young players and the squad. McKenna, Carrick and the gang led by Ole don’t compare to the likes of Queiroz and Meulensteen, led by the greatest manager of all time. It would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
3. A lot of our current young players have great potential, but as you have pointed out, not only do they not have a top coaching staff around them, they also don’t have seasoned, professional, world class pros to learn from and set an example for them. Issues like how they should train and what they should be doing to improve are left to an inexperienced coaching staff. This is not 1999, it is 2020 and the coaching and philosophy needs to come from the coaching staff in our current situation. I want this in more capable hands.
4. I think this is the most important point, Oles job is done! He came in, lifted the gloom, steadied the ship and the signs were there at the end of the season that his job was done. A sub 40% win rate as manager of Manchester United is enough to suggest what type of a coach he is. Now, instead of planning for a bright future in 3 years, we are wasting 3 years of development for promising young players under a sub par coaching staff that aren’t fit for purpose.
I love Ole, but he is not the right man to trust steering a ship this size, and I want the future of this young group to be in safer hands.
I sincerely thank him for what he has done, he is a legend, I would never call him an idiot, but his job, for which I am grateful, is done.
Let’s get serious and get in a team that can bring in a few new faces and make the most of what we have got!
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What would have happened if the Dybala or Eriksen deals had gone through? "Sorry guys, you'll have to wait until summer 2020". It's clear that Ole expected more players last summer.
7 players have left under Ole. Lukaku and Sanchez because they're not the right characters, Fellaini and Smalling don't fit the style, Valencia and Darmian weren't good enough and Herrera was not through choice.
On top of that, Matic, Mata, Young, Jones, Bailly and Rojo are still at the club to make up the numbers and are all on the way out. That is 13 players, half a playing squad.
The plan is to replace those players with "United players", players with the right character. You can't sign 13 players in one summer, especially when your recruitment department is as poor as United's.
They've only just recently signed new contracts (while Ole has been here), wouldn't really say that is "on the way out".
They clearly are.
Maguire and Lindelof are playing virtually every minute of every game rather than rest one while Jones is the only back up option. Watch the difference when Tuanzebe gets fit.
Ole said he has told Mata he will rarely play and he'll get occasional run outs in the cups.
In both cases, they seem like nice guys and good pros who fit the character that Ole wants in the squad. But as playing options, they're way down the pecking order and are just making up the numbers.
If you're signing 4 or 5 players a year and have 13 players on their way out, some will have to stay a couple of years.
It is pointless saying anything sensible here as the whole mantra seems to be that he got rid of the deadwood and he has a plan. In reality his deadwood is being missed now and he has no plan at all apart from playing Lingard as the attacking midfield player.
It's actually ridiculous how hypocritical the likes of Rio and Scholes are. I hope to god we never appoint a former player as manager again - especially a legend and fan favourite. It feels sour to criticise him but holy crap our former players seemed to love scrutinising LvG and Mourinho now they're mostly silent in what is our worst season since SAF retired.
Have we forgotten this:
Molde level clown. No wonder he hides in the dugout for 99 percent of the time. There's a similar clip of him at the Emirates being a weirdo
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