Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Snafu17 said:
It makes all the difference in the world if you're defending the lead with 10 minutes to go. It's literally the one thing that's useful about experience, you can handle situations easier if you already experienced it.

Yeah, one has actually played professional football for a couple of years, the other one hasn't. How is there no difference?

Teams drop back all the time, you're arguing we wouldn't because we barely managed to pin them back for all of seven minutes. It just takes a bit of possession for Sheffield and we would have been exposed with our none existent midfield.
Click to expand...

They weren't going to get that possession though. They have lost their legs and were collapsing. They couldn't do anything against Fred and Lingard midfield anyway because of that, they ran out of steam completely. More pressure and we would have scored even one more I reckon. By that sub we actually gave them a chance to regroup, gather themselves, regain possession and start making few attempts. We brought them into the game. They were on the verge of losing it.

I honestly don't care at all about this experience thing. I'll prefer putting an inexperienced player in his right position at the right moment than put an experienced player in a wrong position at wrong timing. The first one has a bigger chance to succeed.
 
Sultan said:
Exactly!

He would have been criticised had he not tried to close shop and Sheffield equalised. Jose did this most games and he's a great tactician in many minds. Hindsight makes great coaches.
Click to expand...

You only try to close shop when you're starting to get pressure from the opposition/they're attacking you.

We actively invited the pressure onto our crap defence and voluntary gave up our threat.

Jose did it when he could rely on his defence.
 
saivet said:
While this is true, given the context of the game, we looked like we were on the front foot and could have got a 4th. As soon as Tuanzabe came on, naturally we retreated and invited some pressure.
Click to expand...

The team would have retreated anyway. They were chasing an equalizer. People would have lost their minds just as much if he hadn't made the sub and they scored. People on here just need to vent. There are fewer and fewer objective voices on here and its getting embarrassing now
 
Moved To Differently said:
Our 3rd was scored in the 80th minute, not the 70th. The game ebbs and flows, just because you're on top for a spell doesn't mean you can maintain that for the remainder of the game, we had to compensate for the fact that Sheffield were going to come on strong.

It's not a matter of pressing, it's initial positioning, I think the players are encouraged to pack the box in that situation which not only invites pressure but infact requires greater effort to close down wide players when they invariably spot this and take all the time they need to play the best cross. It's the opposite of what you're saying. It's energy-conserving to maintain presence in wide areas there.

It doesn't seem rational to me that you could disregard Ole as a fundamentally flawed manager on that basis, he has to learn how to see out games for sure but that's not a basic understanding you'd automatically expect any manager to have otherwise very few goals would ever be conceded from winning positions late in the game, he has to be given the time to learn from his mistakes.
Click to expand...
Why would we give him time to learn from his mistakes? Are we running a charity here, or are we meant to be a club with high standards, with aspirations to compete at the top in the near future?

A high quality, proven coach is available right now, yet we're going to plod along with an inexperienced manager in charge? It makes absolutely zero sense to me.
 
Didn't bother with his post match interview. His reaction after the final whistle said it all to me. Big smile for Wilder, arm around the shoulder of Norwood, happily chatting away. He should have been fuming and ready to give the players hell for dropping 2 pts. Clearly quite content with the point and a dismal performance to boot.
 
Nick7 said:
How exactly is going back to the formation and system we struggled with in the first half not a tactical mistake? He literally laid out the red carpet for them.
Click to expand...

He didn't go back to same formation, Tuanzebe was CM/DM.
 
In our last 6 games we’ve scored three times in 4. We were appalling today but very weakened and got a decent point. Our young players are playing well and overall I’m cautiously optimistic still. We have to beat villa with a similar performance to Brighton game.
 
Snafu17 said:
Yeah for the five minutes, right after they conceded. They definitely would have at least a few in the reaming 10 minutes.
Click to expand...

And at that point you make the change.

If youre controlling the game - which we were - then you do that for as long as you possibly can.

They would have come onto us obviously, but it would have been 5 minutes later then it was.
 
Red Devil 26 said:
Didn't bother with his post match interview. His reaction after the final whistle said it all to me. Big smile for Wilder, arm around the shoulder of Norwood, happily chatting away. He should have been fuming and ready to give the players hell for dropping 2 pts. Clearly quite content with the point and a dismal performance to boot.
Click to expand...

He's more than content going by his interview.
 
Bobcat said:
The fact that people are having a go at him after going from 0-2 to 3-2 because he put on a defensive player in injury time...fecking hell. Really?
Click to expand...

Its embarrassing. Under Ferguson we would have been celebrating saving a game and disappointed at letting in a late on. Nothing more than that.
 
Majima said:
You'll be disappointed soon then. Solskjaer is a defensive coach by nature. Expecting him to suddenly start being attacking when we've been a defensive counter-attacking team throughout his year here is a bit strange to me.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure we'd see a consistent 4-2-3-1 if we weren't constantly hampered by injuries.
 
el3mel said:
They weren't going to get that possession though. They have lost their legs and were collapsing. They couldn't do anything against Fred and Lingard midfield anyway because of that, they ran out of steam completely. More pressure and we would have scored even one more I reckon. By that sub we actually gave them a chance to regroup, gather themselves, regain possession and start making few attempts. We brought them into the game. They were on the verge of losing it.

I honestly don't care at all about this experience thing. I'll prefer putting an inexperienced player in his right position at the right moment than put an experienced player in a wrong position at wrong timing. The first one has a bigger chance to succeed.
Click to expand...
The idea that they wouldn't regroup because we played with a Fred-Lingard midfield with zero defensive prowess is silly. Again this happens all the time, there's no reason to think today would be any different.

Experience shouldn't be end all, be all but is absolutely valuable especially if the difference is five to fifty professional appearances.
 
Majima said:
You're only just realising now? Where have you been for the past year?

Ignoring what is said in press conferences. Apart from a few games at the start, we have been a defensive counter-attacking team throughout his time here.

When Pogba was fit at the start of the season, he was playing him as a defensive mid in a pivot. Does that sound like an attacking manager to you?
Click to expand...

I have been saying it for a while, but it's crazy how some fans still don't realise it
 
Can't blame Ole for everything, it's not his fault he's given the job. The fact that Solskjaer is the face of Manchester United just shows our ambition. Glazers / Woodward are at fault for their continually poor decisions year in year out. We will see what happens at the end of the season. I'm expecting us to win no more than 10 games this entire season.
 
Water Melon said:
It was a wrong sub that killed the momentum. Axel is not on form and hardly a midfielder. Tactics at the beginning were wrong, and subbing Axel on was a mistake as well. This sub brought SU back into game, fact. Taking Tony off and bringing Tuanzebe on weakened us both defensively and offensively. Ole is inept tactically and this game is the clearest evidence to it.
Click to expand...

call out to his sub that initiated the comeback would be nice.
 
Snafu17 said:
The idea that they wouldn't regroup because we played with a Fred-Lingard midfield with zero defensive prowess is silly. Again this happens all the time, there's no reason to think today would be any different.

Experience shouldn't be end all, be all but is absolutely valuable especially if the difference is five to fifty professional appearances.
Click to expand...

They didn't have a chance too. They were very pressed at the back and were collapsing, hardly any chance to try and dominate that midfield. The momentum was with us, the sub changed the momentum, as much as the second sub changed the momentum in our favor, this one gave it back to them.
 
VP89 said:
The issue wasn't just the system though. Our players just looked like they didn't need to work for the ball as much and when they had the ball, a lot made so many unforced errors.

His post match interview is bizzare too. Inferring a draw is great because last year we'd have lost by 3 or 4. This is Sheffield United for fecksake, we should be pushing for top 4 not pissing around trying to be better than average.
Click to expand...

He is not saying a draw is great. Not at all. The comments were praising the team for fighting back when in recent times they would have bent over and let in 4 or 5.

Nothing controversial or even comment worthy in that interview, but the forum has lost its minds anyway
 
Snafu17 said:
The idea that they wouldn't regroup because we played with a Fred-Lingard midfield with zero defensive prowess is silly. Again this happens all the time, there's no reason to think today would be any different.

Experience shouldn't be end all, be all but is absolutely valuable especially if the difference is five to fifty professional appearances.
Click to expand...
It’s weird they didn’t do that until we made the sub and sacrificed the ball.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
And at that point you make the change.

If youre controlling the game - which we were - then you do that for as long as you possibly can.

They would have come onto us obviously, but it would have been 5 minutes later then it was.
Click to expand...
Maybe five minutes later but against a more vulnerable team. If you're making a defensive sub by the time you're already conceding chances then you might be too late.
 
Nick7 said:
Looked exactly like a third centre back to me. Played like one too.
Click to expand...

Didn't play as CB at all, he was playing in midfield and in the last few mins he was even at RW position helping AWB or some other player.
 
If Ole is going to play 5 at the back, can he and coaching team at least make sure they train the players for it? We look clueless every time we play like that
 
Bilbo said:
The team would have retreated anyway. They were chasing an equalizer. People would have lost their minds just as much if he hadn't made the sub and they scored. People on here just need to vent. There are fewer and fewer objective voices on here and its getting embarrassing now
Click to expand...

So why bother to pre-empt it?

Again... You make the sub when you are/starting to be put under pressure... You don't just tell the opposition to come attack us. Especially when our defense is poor.

It's not venting, it's a valid criticism to a decision that you can argue cost us a win.
 
Nick7 said:
It’s weird they didn’t do that until we made the sub and sacrificed the ball.
Click to expand...
And that's the proof that they wouldn't? Five minutes in this specific game rather than pretty much every game ever played.
 
Bobcat said:
What? It was not attack that let us down today, it was the fecking midfield

Pereira and Jones and garbage. Utter, utter garbage. Both of them at fault for a goal and contribute the sum of zero feck all in both attack and defense
Click to expand...

I think all of us agree with this but who’s responsible that Pereira is still a part of our squad?
 
Bilbo said:
Its embarrassing. Under Ferguson we would have been celebrating saving a game and disappointed at letting in a late on. Nothing more than that.
Click to expand...
Under Ferguson it'd have happened once in a blue moon whilst we were 1st or 2nd and challenging for the fecking title.

I also don't recall us serving up 70 minutes of shit like that under Fergie, either.
 
Bilbo said:
The team would have retreated anyway. They were chasing an equalizer. People would have lost their minds just as much if he hadn't made the sub and they scored. People on here just need to vent. There are fewer and fewer objective voices on here and its getting embarrassing now
Click to expand...
This team would have scored 4th as it had scored 3 in 10 mins and Sheffield had no chance but to open up further. We were keeping them in their own half. Sheffield went ultra offensive trying to equalize, while we become more fragile both upfront and at the back after Ole's last sub. He is ultimately responsible for what we have witnessed today. And if the team would have retreated anyway as you say, then Ole is even more useless than I thought.
 
Bilbo said:
He is not saying a draw is great. Not at all. The comments were praising the team for fighting back when in recent times they would have bent over and let in 4 or 5.

Nothing controversial or even comment worthy in that interview, but the forum has lost its minds anyway
Click to expand...

He inferred it, and he said this is progress as last year we'd have lost 3 or 4 nil. He's the one whose lost his mind.
 
el3mel said:
They didn't have a chance too. They were very pressed at the back and were collapsing, hardly any chance to try and dominate that midfield. The momentum was with us, the sub changed the momentum, as much as the second sub changed the momentum in our favor, this one gave it back to them.
Click to expand...
But momentum always changes in this types of games. There's no reason to think se would just keep the possession with a midfield that was barely functioning as it is.
 
Majima said:
Why would we give him time to learn from his mistakes? Are we running a charity here, or are we meant to be a club with high standards, with aspirations to compete at the top in the near future?

A high quality, proven coach is available right now, yet we're going to plod along with an inexperienced manager in charge? It makes absolutely zero sense to me.
Click to expand...

That first bit is particularly bewildering to me. On that basis Fergie should have been sacked after his first season? Why recruit a young manager if you don't intent to give him time to develop? Where is the benefit in continually chopping and changing your coaching staff? How long can you get away with that before you've exhausted every realistic managerial option there is? Why are people so adamant Ole isn't capable of growing into the role?

As to your second point, again where is the logic? This manager you refer to was sacked by his former club so they could replace him with the man we didn't want anymore.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
So why bother to pre-empt it?

Again... You make the sub when you are/starting to be put under pressure... You don't just tell the opposition to come attack us. Especially when our defense is poor.

It's not venting, it's a valid criticism to a decision that you can argue cost us a win.
Click to expand...

Why isn't there any talk about the changes that were made to help us get 3-2 in front? Literally nothing on that at all. Only the negative.

It would have been stupid to leave on the same XI. 8 times out of 10 that change helps balance the team and kill the game off. Unfortunately this was one of the others
 
Bilbo said:
The team would have retreated anyway. They were chasing an equalizer. People would have lost their minds just as much if he hadn't made the sub and they scored. People on here just need to vent. There are fewer and fewer objective voices on here and its getting embarrassing now
Click to expand...

This. How the feck would Martial have stopped that goal exactly? If you are defending a lead in injury time you fall back, literally everyone does it.

If he did not make a sub people would lose their shit over him not making a sub. When he made the sub we had Martial, Rashford, James, Greenwood and Lindgaard on, thats 5/10 outfiled players without a single defensive fiber in them.

Its also pretty telling that people dont focus on the subs that made 0-2 into 3-2, but putting on a defender in injury time and its suddenly the most worst thing that has ever happened.
 
I have not consistently seen patterns of play in our game since he has taken over. We completely reliant on individual brilliance. It's not his fault he's got the job and we do have many other important problems to deal with but it doesn't mean he isn't an issue.
 
passing-wind said:
Can't blame Ole for everything, it's not his fault he's given the job. The fact that Solskjaer is the face of Manchester United just shows our ambition. Glazers / Woodward are at fault for their continually poor decisions year in year out. We will see what happens at the end of the season. I'm expecting us to win no more than 10 games this entire season.
Click to expand...

You can't blame Ole for everything, much of the abuse he has received in this thread is unwarranted and frankly uncalled for, but you can blame him when it is his fault.

Ole was at fault for the original system that saw us get slaughtered in the first half and again when he needlessly reverted to it after going 3-2 in front.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.