He's talking about lvg...Jose didn't win the FA cup. Conte did. Against him..
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Wait now I'm confused. Why did he say "2nd place, Europa League" then?
Isn't that normal? Different people deserve different respect, because that's how life works.
I have much more respect for Ole than Jose, who at the end was acting like a spoilt child who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas.
There's a difference between being respectful and being hypocritical. Fact of the matter is, he's a worse manager than Jose and is doing worse than Jose is. Regardless of how likeable he is and his history with us, he should now be judged as manager of Manchester United.
Of course people, myself included, will be more inclined to give him time etc. given his status, but overlooking the same flaws we saw in other managers simply because of his standing with the supporters is just being ignorant.
This all stems from being badgered about my feelings about Ole as a manager.
I don't know about the order but earlier we were talking about accomplishments of the previous two managers.that order is chronological in reverseWait now I'm confused. Why did he say "2nd place, Europa League" then?
Yeah, I can't disagree with that. He should be judged fairly and by the same standards. But a point to add, the club was in complete disarray when Ole took over. That shouldn't be forgotten either.
fair enough
Out of curiosity what specific flaws do people see with Ole, talking specifically?
He’s unproven of course and he’s had a good spell and a poor spell, however there are a couple of real positives that we haven’t seen under the last three managers that I feel are really important changes that are needed regardless of the current points tally, namely...
Recruitment: Spot on, the three that Ole has signed have hit the ground running and certainly two of the three could be suggested as our player of the year so far.
*Should have been backed by Ed for a Lukaku replacement and additional midfielder.
Clear Out: Ole got rid of a lot of dead wood, some of which had been lingering around the club like a bad smell for a long time. This is something people on the CAF continually lambasted previous managers for not doing.
High Press: Sounds basic but I’ve been screaming at my TV for United to press the opposition effectively for years and years! I’m so happy to see the start of what you can clearly see is a high press that is being coached into this young side. VITAL I feel for us to progress in the modern game.
Player Improvement: Players such as McTominay, Martial, Fred even Perreira have improved under Ole. All were stagnating under past managers.
Young Players / Youth: This is a young team (too young and inexperienced at the moment in fact) and granted the team hasn’t done very well as a collective yet, however individually each of the youngsters have done very well considering and integrated well into the side. We’ve all been singing the praises of Dan James, Brandon Williams and Tuenzebe (prior to injury.)
I feel the above points are really important changes in direction for the club, at this time they are more important than our current points tally and table position.
We have to build from an improved foundation if we are to really kick on as a club. Ole might not be Pep but he’s ticking boxes for me that previous managers haven’t.
He’s unproven of course and he’s had a good spell and a poor spell, however there are a couple of real positives that we haven’t seen under the last three managers that I feel are really important changes that are needed regardless of the current points tally, namely...
Recruitment: Spot on, the three that Ole has signed have hit the ground running and certainly two of the three could be suggested as our player of the year so far.
*Should have been backed by Ed for a Lukaku replacement and additional midfielder.
Clear Out: Ole got rid of a lot of dead wood, some of which had been lingering around the club like a bad smell for a long time. This is something people on the CAF continually lambasted previous managers for not doing.
High Press: Sounds basic but I’ve been screaming at my TV for United to press the opposition effectively for years and years! I’m so happy to see the start of what you can clearly see is a high press that is being coached into this young side. VITAL I feel for us to progress in the modern game.
Player Improvement: Players such as McTominay, Martial, Fred even Perreira have improved under Ole. All were stagnating under past managers.
Young Players / Youth: This is a young team (too young and inexperienced at the moment in fact) and granted the team hasn’t done very well as a collective yet, however individually each of the youngsters have done very well considering and integrated well into the side. We’ve all been singing the praises of Dan James, Brandon Williams and Tuenzebe (prior to injury.)
I feel the above points are really important changes in direction for the club, at this time they are more important than our current points tally and table position.
We have to build from an improved foundation if we are to really kick on as a club. Ole might not be Pep but he’s ticking boxes for me that previous managers haven’t.
Doesn’t make the rest of his post untrue!Jose didn't win the FA cup. Conte did. Against him..
Assist vs Bournemouth was under Ole, his second or third game.
Well said.
Or most ManUtd fans cried because we had a toxic twat leading the club, who just shat on the club, young players and everyone, barely took any responsibility, spent shit loads of money and didn't challenge for the league even once in 3 seasons. To achieve all this, we spent more money than most clubs (maybe except only City).
Jose's twattish behavior is at least bearable if he is competing for the league, when he isn't then there is nothing to fall back on.
Before you come up with Ole reply, no he isn't good enough either.
Flaws? The actual football we play. There is no imprint of a potentially great manager that I can see, and he's nearly been here for a year now. With Ole to me it seems simple. He has all the right intentions - he wants us play exciting football, bed youth in and eventually win titles. But sadly he just isn't good enough a manager from what I've seen. I mean, if tomorrow Big Sam adopts the footballing virtues that excite Barcelona fans (Pep/Cruyff), it doesn't mean he's doing to be fit for the job. So yeah, Ole has the right intentions but not the quality IMO.
What kind of sense does that make? No doubt this place was toxic as hell around this time last year, but its not like Jose was innocent in that. He had a meltdown because he did not get the players he wanted and then tried to burn the house down. If he had acted like an adult none of this would have happened and he would still sit in that chair
So whether or not a manger deserves respect only relies on how many trophies they won? Stuff like conduct is meaningless? People only turned on Jose when it was clear he was having a mental breakdown. Regarding LvG it was not like he was hounded out of the club by the fans, but in his two years here he:
- Gutted what was left of Fergies team and sold player like Vidic(32y), Zaha, Rafael and Nani for peanuts
- Spent over 300 million with only Martial and Herrera to show for it
- Openly lambasting players in the press for not sticking to his draconian rules. I might be wrong here, but did he not bench Herrera for not taking a touch before shooting (nevermind he scored). Thats absurd
- Bizarre team selections like constantly playing Rooney despite it being quite clear he was in rapid decline and should have been used sparingly, and constantly sending Herrera to the doghouse despite him largely being great in favour of Schweinsteiger and Scheinderlin who were both shite
- Forcing players to watch his infamous video recordings and stuff like that. By the end of his second year it was quite clear many in the squad were not happy with him
- Ending up 4th and then 5th in a league environment that was much easier than the current one. Arsenal were as they were under Wengers last years, going nowhere, Pellegrini had no idea what he was doing at City and Liverpool were shit under Rodgers after they lost Suarez.
Unbelievable that people claim to be fans of Manchester United and still worship Mou... Should be called "The Cult of Moo" given the amount of BS such blind worship supplies...
That man s*at all over the club and:
1. Sidelined Martial and Rashford for... Lukaku and Alexis
2. Bought 2 CBs and then moaned about not getting Boateng
3. Fell out with the dressing room and made the entire club toxic with his behaviour
4. Used a kid (McTominay) to make a point to Ed - while potentially destroying said kid's confidence
5. Essentially told the club it was crap in Europe and should be fine with losing to Sevilla without even trying because "that's the legacy of the club"
I could go on to playing style etc., but shall not.
So no, people didn't want the CC out because of his results; we wanted him gone for everything else. While Mou gets you results, you can grit your teeth and survive all the negativity. But when even those go, it's done.
On to Ole. He's not good enough based on the evidence so far - but if the choice was him vs Mou, I'd take Ole without blinking. Has he been better for the club? Absolutely. Despite results, even in the worst phase under Ole, I didn't fall out of love with the club. I watch each game hoping we'll win. I don't dread the PCs and the leaks and the toxicity. Is that enough for me to say he's good enough? No! But that's a standalone judgment and does not merit any comparison with Mou.
Jose didn't win the FA cup. Conte did. Against him..
Well done, completely ruined my Point. Oh wait no you haven’t as you’ve highlighted that as well as winning the League Cup he also got to the final of the FA Cup- accomplishments Ole couldn’t ever dream of
My mistake. The point still stands, we’ve seen him do great things now and then (decision making wise) but he’s far too inconsistent and still mostly plays with his head down when he has the ball. So I don’t think we can safely say Ole has helped improve his decision making.
His decision making isn't consistent but his record under Ole is better than under Jose. Maybe it's do with playing regularly and being main man in the attack along with Martial.
There are few changes in the game though, he is making lot of runs now than before, he is using his left foot which wasn't the case earlier, always tried to shift the ball to right foot.
I’ll give you the left foot thing and that he’s making more and better runs in behind. This is small things though, if he could help him pick the right passes at the right time Rashford would be one of the most dangerous players in the league imo.
I think the improvements can be explained somewhat by getting that combo of Martial and Rashford right, which is also Ole’s decision. It’s more like getting the puzzle pieces right, than actually making the whole working puzzle yourself though, if you know what I mean.
So United can´t even dream about winning the League cup or reaching the final in the FA cup? Some supporters are just.... great.
Well of course we can dream about it. I can dream about us winning the European Cup next year but isn’t going to happen. Just realism- happy to be proven wrong!
If Ole managed half the achievements LVG or Jose did you’d all be beside yourselves & give him a 100 year contract
Yeah, it's all about playing a team that complements each other. Doesn't know about the rest but Martial and Rashford do that and going by initial games, James is fitting in nicely.
Also I think his decision making has improved lately, when he was competing with Martial for the same position, there was lot of selfishness in his game, ignoring players in better position to prove he should be the first choice player. Now he is more relaxed and picks up the players in better position in the build up play, he still needs to improve but there is good change in his game. The period where both were competing against each other, his game was changed and he was very selfish at that time.
I guess I need more evidence to feel as sure as you. Only last match after he passed a CB with that elastico close to the touch line, he chose to shoot, instead of picking a pass. An isolated incident wouldn’t worry me, I just knew he’d do that. Martial was visibly irritated a couple of times, with good reason imo.
Because there was no pass on at that time, with defenders close by.
FA Cup:
Beat Sheffield United, Derby County, Shrewsbury Town, West Ham (replay), Everton and Crystal Palace
League Cup:
Beat Northampton Town, Manchester City, West Ham, Hull City and Southampton
Europa League:
Second in group behind the mighty Fenerbahce;
Then beat St. Etienne, Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta and Ajax
The latter two came at the cost of league being absolutely given up on. And this is without going into the times we scraped or looked hideous or had to thank opposition strikers. I'm happy with the wins, but if we get such draws, I'd bet on (very) decent Cup runs. Absolutely. Just the City draw was against a team we would not have been absolute bankers for (and that was at home).
That’s just not true. Maybe pick a pass wasn’t the right term, but there certainly were several United players in the box.
Even if we grant this, it's the classic "one swallow"; the scoring record with Martial and Rashford playing together speaks volumes. Not possible if one of them is routinely silly or overly selfish.
PS: I don't grant this by the bye. If he'd tried a pass, we'd be baying for blood asking why he didn't shoot given how there was no pass available and the keeper had his legs spread wide.
Who were all close to Brighton defenders or with passing lane blocked. There were 7 Brighton defenders, I posted the images in Rashford's thread, going for pass was not the right option and the only pass which was on was McTominay who was at the edge of the box and there was no way Rashford would have seen him considering how quick that move was.
Lingard was sandwiched between 2 Brighton defenders and high chances that pass would have been intercepted, also Lingard wasn't even facing the ball, by the time he took the touch, he would have been closed down.
Exactly. At least this season I haven't seem him shooting randomly when there were players in better positions to score. He took some stupid shots but that was in general play rather than ignoring players in better position.
It will be near impossible to win a long European competition as Europe League with such a thread thin squad especially when the schedule becomes more congested by March or April while the fitness will start to drop down and injuries will accumulate. Best to achieve will be QF or SF. Teams like Inter might be coming from CL as well.
As for LC we aren't defeating Liverpool and City.
Still FA Cup to see.
As for LC we aren't defeating Liverpool and City.
Still FA Cup to see.
Wrong quote.
To win the EL you´d probable have to beat Arsenal. And that´s ever going to happen, right. Sometimes there is a tiny border between critics and moaning.
I’ll have to check those out, but I don’t think he even looked up.
Ole legend of a player, garbage coach / manager. Either you support Ole or support the club, he's made this distinction because our records this season and the finale of the last is atrocious. It's pathetic that people think the pendulum has swung because we beat Brighton at home despite losing to Bournemouth the prior fixture.
For the love of Christ, can we stop this rubbish as it exists only in the Man United folklore - What does 'loves the club and knows it inside out even mean' ? Is this a prerequisite for success or an essential managerial nous ingredient? He is on a salary just like any other manager and they are supposed to be professionals in the discharge of their duties no matter what club they are coaching . It's ridiculous.
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The "loves the club" and "knows the club" is another way of people wanting to desperately cling to the past and to keep the Fergie legacy alive for as long as possible, instead of just moving on and getting with the times.
People shouldn't be afraid of change, it can actually be positive.
People shouldn't be afraid of change, it can actually be positive.
Well we haven't conceded a goal in the Europa yet and look to be sailing to the last 32, plus were pretty much in the Semi's of the league cup so if we draw Everton, could be a League Cup final and I fancy us to get close in the Europa, pretty much similar to Jose first year?
By the sounds of it, you will be "beside yourself" if Sheffield United do us and you can bash Ole a little bit more.
Re. Lampard, you could be right – time will tell, but it's a bloody brilliant start.
Re. Leicester, I disagree. They were perceived to be up and coming by the end of the season because of the work Rodgers did there in half a season. They were completely rudderless under the uninspiring Puel.
I’m new around here but a couple of quick questions.
1. Is the purpose of this thread to keep a general, non-specific debate on Ole going until he is no longer manager? Because one way or the other at some point in the future he will not be manager.
2. Was there a similar thread for previous managers?
Or maybe these questions are for the Sack or Keep thread. Or the Sack Watch thread.
Thanks
1. Is the purpose of this thread to keep a general, non-specific debate on Ole going until he is no longer manager? Because one way or the other at some point in the future he will not be manager.
2. Was there a similar thread for previous managers?
Or maybe these questions are for the Sack or Keep thread. Or the Sack Watch thread.
Thanks
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