Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[SteveW]

Is Ole a misunderstood genius?

He was world class yesterday and completely out tactic'd the scouse.

Ole made The Kloppinator look like Kindergarten Klopp.

The reality is we don't know yet. I've seen plenty of evidence that he's good tactically but it's continually undermined by the weakness of the players he's having to select. Realistically we had 4 players on the pitch against Liverpool who had no business being there. That number has been as high as 5 or 6 at times this season. Managing to carry that many players is no easy task. He set up the team perfectly yesterday but at the end of the day it was two of these bad players (Rojo and Young) that ended up costing us the win.

In a lot of the games we've been asking the likes of Fred, Matic, Mata, Lingard, Periera to run the game and break teams down. It simply isn't realistic. They don't have it in them and haven't for a long before Ole came to the club.

 

[Godfather]

Is Ole a misunderstood genius?

He was world class yesterday and completely out tactic'd the scouse.

Ole made The Kloppinator look like Kindergarten Klopp.

By out tacticed you mean sit back until we concede? He sure did that a lot this season.

 

[rotherham_red]

The reality is we don't know yet. I've seen plenty of evidence that he's good tactically but it's continually undermined by the weakness of the players he's having to select. Realistically we had 4 players on the pitch against Liverpool who had no business being there. That number has been as high as 5 or 6 at times this season. Managing to carry that many players is no easy task. He set up the team perfectly yesterday but at the end of the day it was two of these bad players (Rojo and Young) that ended up costing us the win.

In a lot of the games we've been asking the likes of Fred, Matic, Mata, Lingard, Periera to run the game and break teams down. It simply isn't realistic. They don't have it in them and haven't for a long before Ole came to the club.

Spot on. But watch it get ignored by the agenda vultures...

 

[Raw]

4 wins in 22 since that PSG game...

Jesus

 

[Cassidy]

The reality is we don't know yet. I've seen plenty of evidence that he's good tactically but it's continually undermined by the weakness of the players he's having to select. Realistically we had 4 players on the pitch against Liverpool who had no business being there. That number has been as high as 5 or 6 at times this season. Managing to carry that many players is no easy task. He set up the team perfectly yesterday but at the end of the day it was two of these bad players (Rojo and Young) that ended up costing us the win.

In a lot of the games we've been asking the likes of Fred, Matic, Mata, Lingard, Periera to run the game and break teams down. It simply isn't realistic. They don't have it in them and haven't for a long before Ole came to the club.

I think this crumbles against any team that plays a low block. Agree with the rest though.
Tactically he seems good at setting up the team to exploit space and counter, not seen much in relation to breaking teams down.

 

[Majima]

@7.15. Mourinho on Ole's decision to not bring in a replacement striker:

''You can even buy a striker, that is on the bench, but has a certain profile that during the season, at home, he comes on, last 15/20 mins, he scores 4 goals, but these 4 goals mean you draw or you win, these 4 goals mean 8 points, if you have a real objective, in terms of points or position, sometimes you have strikers on the bench, that are fundamental for that objective.''

''If your objective is to build a team, and to say all the time that the objective of the team is the future, the long-term, the kids, the young players and you hide behind that, then you don't need (a striker), then you play Greenwood and give him time to grow up, because he has a kid with potential.''

The fact that there's talk of us bringing Mandžukić (or panic buying any experienced striker) in January, when he was available in the summer, says it all about Ole's summer 'planning'.

 

[7even]

On a general note, I’ll say that if this present Liverpool starts a half hell bent on taking it to the opposition, it’s a damn good team that isn’t pegged back. We aren’t a damn good team at the moment, so that does not equate to giving up initiative, rather to losing it.

Specifically, they changed their tactics in the second half (in itself a nod to the effectiveness of our first half tactics). Klopp put Henderson wide and sent Origi up top to tie up all three of our defenders, Firmino falling behind/between the lines to orchestrate play, and Hendo helping Arnold into crossing positions more often. This worked in order to peg us back, creating a bit of unstructure between our defensive lines, and we struggled to play out as well.

Solskjær then made a change: From 3-4-3 to 3-5-2 with McTominay as an anvhor to pick up Firmino. This stabilized matters, and Liverpool didn’t create anything. Some people’s claim that playing low against Liverpool is inviting trouble is nonsensical. That is what most often works against Klopps teams. It’s ‘taking it to the opposition’ that mostly ends in tears. But you have to lay low well - preventing Robertson and Arnold hitting crosses without pressure and high in the field. United managed just that with a central three giving two wide fullbacks safety to oush up against R and A.

The tactics worked in getting lead, and keeping the best team in the league mostly harmless. Liverpool actually scoring was in spite of the tactics: Wan Bissaka forgetting his position (yes, he is young, raw and still positionally inconsistent) and Rojo doing what Rojo does that makes him 6th choice of our CBs (7th when counting Smalling).

I agree with the bolded part. The quality of our squad is depressing, to put it mildly. You pin point AWB and Rojo but I think the worst of them all was IMO Lindelöf. He’s a liability and I honestly think Tuanzebe is a better long term option.

Ole needs luck to survive. Pogba and Martial back on form ASAP. A couple of more wins before Christmas so he has time to breathe. In January a dm or a creative midfielder is a must. Everybody wants a striker but we must first learn to control games, create enough chances, then we can focus on a striker.

The game against Liverpool gave me hopes. I’m not sure this will be enough to install long term confidence in the team but maybe it’s a small step forward to better performances.

 

[Enigma_87]

@7.15. Mourinho on Ole's decision to not bring in a replacement striker:



The fact that there's talk of us bringing Mandžukić (or panic buying any experienced striker) in January, when he was available in the summer, says it all about Ole's summer 'planning'.

Well he's spot on.

 

[SteveJ]

Well he's spot on.

Apart from the gratuitously snide 'hiding' bit. Whether Ole is hiding or not, it's a typically bitter comment from poor old Jose who never gets any credit ever.

 

[blue blue]

@7.15. Mourinho on Ole's decision to not bring in a replacement striker:



The fact that there's talk of us bringing Mandžukić (or panic buying any experienced striker) in January, when he was available in the summer, says it all about Ole's summer 'planning'.

What about Giroud in the Christmas window? He's hardly playing at Chelsea and Batshuayi is in front of him. £20m?

 

[Lynty]

This narrative of him being clueless is lazy criticism. I trust the judgement of someone who's lived and breathed professional football for 30 years over armchair tacticians who are demanding Angel Gomes start in every prematch thread.

Moyes philosophy was to get to the line and cross. He removed vital back room staff, failed to motivate his team with bizarre training routines and poor man management, and chased targets who were either unobtainable or unneeded, sometimes both. Could we describe him as clueless. I dont think so. Old fashioned, unprepared and maybe ill advised, but a man with his career isn't clueless on how to manage a football club.

LVG, to his credit turned us in the right direction but didn't back up his possession orientated philosophy with the right signings. In fact, some of his signings directly contradicted the method he wanted to implement and stifled our progress into becoming a possesion based team.

Jose never really settled on a philosophy, as is his pragmatic way. But the football was often dull and our most memorable tactics where using Fellaini to either bully back posters or break up the play on the edge of our area to shutdown a game. His downfall was poor man management, (which almost resulted in squad mutiny) and attempting to force questionable short sighted transfer business.

In comparison, Ole and his staff do have a method of playing despite what 'armchair tacticians' say. He has backed up this method with his transfer business and team selections. And he has maintained the support of the his staff and sqaud despite a poor run in form.

He's not a master tactician, and that's not what we need at the moment. We just need someone to take the wheel and steer us in the right direction. I'm still convinced hes on track to do that and I'm genuinely looking forward to our full strength squad returning. We can replace him with a real tactician later down the line

 

[Majima]

Apart from the gratuitously snide 'hiding' bit. Whether Ole is hiding or not, it's a typically bitter comment from poor old Jose who never gets any credit ever.

He's right though. Ole is hiding behind the kids. It's a cop out. By Ole leaving the squad so short of experience in the summer, he's essentially saying results right now don't matter. Why are there serious links of us panic buying Mandžukić or an experienced striker in January then? He was available in the summer but we rejected him. Oh that's right, because Ole is in danger of losing his job.

People love to defend Ole's decision of allowing most of the experienced players leave without being replaced, thus putting his faith in kids by pointing to SAF putting all his faith in Rooney & Ronaldo, letting RVN go etc, (Neville tried to use that very point in the video above).

But the fact of the matter is, SAF never put himself in a position where he solely relied on kids. That season in 2006/07, he brought in 33 year old Solskjaer & 36 year old Larsson. I'm sure he had an idea about what Jose was talking about.

We also still had 28 year old Saha & 25 year old Smith. Look at the rest of that squad; 36 VDS, 33 Giggs, 32 Scholes, 31 Neville, 28 Heinze & Ferdinand, 25 year old Park, Carrick & Evra. Absolute ton's of experience still.

That's how you develop young talents whilst not dropping your standards.

 

[Majima]

What about Giroud in the Christmas window? He's hardly playing at Chelsea and Batshuayi is in front of him. £20m?

Giroud would have been available in the summer wouldn't he? I would have gladly took him then.

 

[Irwin99]

Nothing to do with their possession, they got lucky with the goal. The point being that having high levels of possession means nothing if you don't do anything with it.

Fair point but I said the same in the games against Palace and Wolves that we didn't deserve to win those games but people were absolutely adamant that we did for all our possession in those games. Similarly, I'd make the argument that Leicester deserved nothing against us despite having the lions share of possession against us at OT. We took our chance, they didn't create enough.

 

[blue blue]

Giroud would have been available in the summer wouldn't he? I would have gladly took him then.

It was a bit confusing in the summer because for a while it looked like Chelsea's ban might be lifted but then it wasn't. It also wasn't clear if Batshuyai would go out on loan again or if Lampard would use Abraham. As it turns out Abraham has come up trumps and Batshuyai is now second choice striker. Giroud barely gets a look in and may want first team football. I think he is in Chelsea's CL squad so he couldn't play in that tournament but maybe that isn't a problem. A cheeky bid of £20m might be worth making.

 

[Majima]

It was a bit confusing in the summer because for a while it looked like Chelsea's ban might be lifted but then it wasn't. It also wasn't clear if Batshuyai would go out on loan again or if Lampard would use Abraham. As it turns out Abraham has come up trumps and Batshuyai is now second choice striker. Giroud barely gets a look in and may want first team football. I think he is in Chelsea's CL squad so he couldn't play in that tournament but maybe that isn't a problem. A cheeky bid of £20m might be worth making.

I see. So he probably wasn't available in the summer then. Apparently we were quoted £20m for Mandzukic in the summer who's the same age which the club weren't happy about and refused, so i can't see us paying that, but who knows what will happen when we panic in January, we're desperate for anyone who can score at the minute!

 

[Irwin99]

He's right though. Ole is hiding behind the kids. It's a cop out. By Ole leaving the squad so short of experience in the summer, he's essentially saying results right now don't matter. Why are there serious links of us panic buying Mandžukić or an experienced striker in January then? He was available in the summer but we rejected him. Oh that's right, because Ole is in danger of losing his job.

People love to defend Ole's decision of allowing most of the experienced players leave without being replaced, thus putting his faith in kids by pointing to SAF putting all his faith in Rooney & Ronaldo, letting RVN go etc, (Neville tried to use that very point in the video above).

But the fact of the matter is, SAF never put himself in a position where he solely relied on kids. That season in 2006/07, he brought in 33 year old Solskjaer & 36 year old Larsson. I'm sure he had an idea about what Jose was talking about.

We also still had 28 year old Saha & 25 year old Smith. Look at the rest of that squad; 36 VDS, 33 Giggs, 32 Scholes, 31 Neville, 28 Heinze & Ferdinand, 25 year old Park, Carrick & Evra. Absolute ton's of experience still.

That's how you develop young talents whilst not dropping your standards.

It's a ridiculous point too as both Rooney and Ronnie had two and three full seasons respectively as first team starters as well as being in a team full of winners and champions.

The point Jose makes is correct sadly, and i'm not his biggest fan at all. Ole said he was fine and happy with the squad in the summer and i'm almost certain he said the club wouldn't buy in January, we didn't follow the Manzukic deal now suddenly we're allegedly desperate for reinforcements. It's BAD planning and the club is just peddling BS as usual.

 

[Greck]

@7.15. Mourinho on Ole's decision to not bring in a replacement striker:



The fact that there's talk of us bringing Mandžukić (or panic buying any experienced striker) in January, when he was available in the summer, says it all about Ole's summer 'planning'.

His motives are definitely from a place of bitterness but there's some truth. Jose being a master of narrative manipulation is also trying to make everyone cognisant of the fact. In a week or two the popular headline question will be whether Ole is hiding poor managerial showings behind the future/rebuild excuse and Ole will have one less excuse to hide behind

I'd personally also like for Ole to stop talking about a future he has done nothing to earn. He can't be talking about being here in 2022 when he's only managed 4 wins in the last 22. That's ridiculous

 

[JustW]

The reality is we don't know yet. I've seen plenty of evidence that he's good tactically but it's continually undermined by the weakness of the players he's having to select. Realistically we had 4 players on the pitch against Liverpool who had no business being there. That number has been as high as 5 or 6 at times this season. Managing to carry that many players is no easy task. He set up the team perfectly yesterday but at the end of the day it was two of these bad players (Rojo and Young) that ended up costing us the win.

In a lot of the games we've been asking the likes of Fred, Matic, Mata, Lingard, Periera to run the game and break teams down. It simply isn't realistic. They don't have it in them and haven't for a long before Ole came to the club.

I think the game also shows that Ole is continually underming himself by using some players out of position and asking them to do things they just can’t do or are not confortable with.

Yesterday I saw Pereira full of running into space, willing to get the ball and many good stuff from him playing centrally compared to when he is played wide in a 4-2-3-1. I saw Fred more confortable and even if he lost possession from time to time it was ok because he had 3 players at the back so less damaging than when he is asked to perform a role he is not suited for in a 4-2-3-1. I saw Young weakness less exposed than in a 4-2-3-1.

I am not saying the players are all world class all of the sudden and that the 3 at the back is the system to move forward but I think they are less exposed than in a 4-2-3-1.

I hope Ole does not go back to his 4-2-3-1 otherwise we are in a big trouble and he will eventually be sacked because I just can’t see this team with these players perform well in that system.

 

[Godfather]

Apart from the gratuitously snide 'hiding' bit. Whether Ole is hiding or not, it's a typically bitter comment from poor old Jose who never gets any credit ever.

He couldn't be more right though

 

[Majima]

His motives are definitely from a place of bitterness but there's some truth. Jose being a master of narrative manipulation is also trying to make everyone cognisant of the fact. In a week or two the popular headline question will be whether Ole is hiding poor managerial showings behind the future/rebuild excuse and Ole will have one less excuse to hide behind

I'd personally also like for Ole to stop talking about a future he has done nothing to earn. He can't be talking about being here in 2022 when he's only managed 4 wins in the last 22. That's ridiculous

I'm glad he's said it in public.

As it should be. It really is ridiculous for so much faith to be put in Ole's future plan when the wheels have already fallen off right now.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

4 wins in 22 since that PSG game...

Tactical master.

 

[Godfather]

I have no idea what Neville is on about anyway. Like there are only strikers out there that either
1. score goals but don't do anything else, or
2. contribute to the team but don't score 20 goals or so per season.

That's such a weird argument. It's even weirder that he thinks we are looking for a striker that fits into that second category seeing as the thing we lack most is goals.

 

[bucky]

I have no idea what Neville is on about anyway. Like there are only strikers out there that either
1. score goals but don't do anything else, or
2. contribute to the team but don't score 20 goals or so per game.

That's such a weird argument. It's even weirder that he thinks we are looking for a striker that fits into that second category seeing as the thing we lack most is goals.

I think he's saying Ole is looking for someone like Tevez or Firmino and he definitely didn't expect to go into the season without a replacement for Lukaku. Mandzukic is a hardworking player as well, so he fits that mould. Souness isn't wrong either, that we aren't in a position to let Lukaku go and just hope one of Martial or Rashford steps up. I'd argue that the thing we lack most bar Pogba is creativity. If we had 1 or 2 creative players on top of Pogba to carry the burden, then we would score more, even with just Martial and Rashford.

 

[bonothom]

Gary Neville talks out of his arse. His 'striker comments' yesterday were ridiculous. Souness was the one actually talking sense. As for Ole's tactical masterclass against Liverpool, Mourinho was employing similar defensive tactics against the big 6 in his time and was getting slaughtered by the fanbase. Ole does it and its a great performance. The hipocrosy is laughable.

 

[Majima]

I have no idea what Neville is on about anyway. Like there are only strikers out there that either
1. score goals but don't do anything else, or
2. contribute to the team but don't score 20 goals or so per game.

That's such a weird argument. It's even weirder that he thinks we are looking for a striker that fits into that second category seeing as the thing we lack most is goals.

He did say he has a real problem with goal scorers. Sounds like he hasn't got a clue what he is talking about.

His genius main point about the team becoming better when RVN left is laughable. SAF also made sure we had proven goal scorers, he brought in 33 year old Solskjaer and 36 year old Larsson that same season. Good analogy Gary, very comparable to Ole letting Lukaku leave and putting all his faith in kids...

He says the right strikers weren't available in the summer which who knows if that's true, but we can hardly score a single goal right now so you would think you would take whatever you can get.

Mandzukic was actually offered to us, we rejected him. So Ole thought the right decision was to start the season with kids. Lo and behold, we're likely to panic buy the very same player (or similar) we just rejected in January. It's criminal planning and we're seriously entrusting the long-term future of the club to him?

 

[tenpoless]

It's painful to see Souness talking more sense than Gaz in the first few mins.

Why is Gary so persistent with relying on Rashford? Even Sir Alex always had senior strikers. When We had Ronaldo, Rooney, Giggs, He still wanted Larsson. The idea of a new striker is to help Rashford, not to dispose him.

 

[Majima]

It's painful to see Souness talking more sense than Gaz in the first few mins.

Why is Gary so persistent with relying on Rashford? Even Sir Alex always had senior strikers. When We had Ronaldo, Rooney, Giggs, He still wanted Larsson. The idea of a new striker is to help Rashford, not to dispose him.

If he now says Rashford needs help when we rejected Mandžukić in the summer, then that will be a u-turn from his summer comments where he said he was happy with our recruitment & criticism against his mate Ole so he's just covering himself & Ole.

He's not being objective as even his big point about the team being better when RVN left has massive holes in it. (SAF still made sure we had proven goal-scorers in Solskjaer & Larsson that same season which he conveniently left out).

He's just trying to save face for himself and Ole essentially.

 

[tenpoless]

If he says Rashford needs help when we rejected Mandžukić in the summer, then that will be criticism against his mate Ole so he's just covering Ole. He's not being objective as even his big point about the team being better when RVN left has massive holes in it. (SAF still made sure we had proven goal-scorers in Solskjaer & Larsson that same season which he conveniently left out).

Seems like this is the case. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say "just bring a 17 y.o academy player to replace your main striker (a 21 y.o) if He performs badly". That's just stupid. Developing young players is also about protecting them as much as giving them chances. Gary was there with Sir Alex for ages, He knows how it is. I cannot think of one season from 2000-2012 where We didn't have at least one senior striker under Sir Alex. He even brought in Owen and Van Persie won us the League. Sir Alex knew how important it is to have reliable goal scorers.

 

[el3mel]

4 wins in 22 since that PSG game...

Holy shite that's 18% win rate or something.

Even counting his honeymoon period. His win rate is a total of 46%.

But it's alright, we got a draw against Liverpool at home after a decent performance so everything is moving on in a good way I guess. We're starting to finally inherit the mentality of midtable clubs.

 

[red4ever 79]

Holy shite that's 18% win rate or something.

Even counting his honeymoon period. His win rate is a total of 46%.

But it's alright, we got a draw against Liverpool at home after a decent performance so everything is moving on in a good way I guess. We're starting to finally inherit the mentality of midtable clubs.

Decent performance that consisted of 2 shots on target and 32% possession at HOME..

 

[red4ever 79]

I have no idea what Neville is on about anyway. Like there are only strikers out there that either
1. score goals but don't do anything else, or
2. contribute to the team but don't score 20 goals or so per season.

That's such a weird argument. It's even weirder that he thinks we are looking for a striker that fits into that second category seeing as the thing we lack most is goals.

His argument was all Firminho doesnt score 25 goals but he would be a great player for Utd. G Neville forgets that Liverpool have on either side of Firminho two players who bag a minimum 20+goals each season. Whereas Utd have on each side feck all

 

[Majima]

Seems like this is the case. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say "just bring a 17 y.o academy player to replace your main striker (a 21 y.o) if He performs badly". That's just stupid. Developing young players is also about protecting them as much as giving them chances. Gary was there with Sir Alex for ages, He knows how it is. I cannot think of one season from 2000-2012 where We didn't have at least one senior striker under Sir Alex. He even brought in Owen and Van Persie won us the League. Sir Alex knew how important it is to have reliable goal scorers.

Exactly. There's not much protecting going around right now at United and Ole is solely responsible for that. No getting around that. Deep down Neville knows it too.

This whole route Ole is taking is unprecedented and nothing like SAF's time. SAF constantly had multiple experienced forwards at the club, along with the vital core of experienced quality pros. From my age, i vividly remember from 2002 onwards so;

• 2002: RVN, OGS, Forlan, Scholes.
• 2003; added Saha, Ronaldo & Bellion with OGS out injured (5 forwards).
• 2004; let Forlan go, brought in Smith & Rooney, (6 forwards).
• 2005; Bellion left, (5 forwards).
• 2006; let RVN go, OGS back & Larsson. (5 forwards).
• 2009; when Ronaldo & Tevez left, we were relatively thin for SAF with 'just' 3 strikers in Berbatov, Rooney & Owen.
• 2010; we added Hernandez so we were back to 4 strikers again.

That's without adding the many goals from around the other parts of the team over the years. The rest of the squad was adding at least 35-40 goals extra each season, which is remarkable when you compare to what we put up combined now.

 

[Godfather]

His argument was all Firminho doesnt score 25 goals but he would be a great player for Utd. G Neville forgets that Liverpool have on either side of Firminho two players who bag a minimum 20+goals each season. Whereas Utd have on each side feck all

Firminho wasn't even a real striker until Klopp made him one. He would do shit with us. Klopp was a genius making Firminho the player he is.

But anyway. Neville's point doesn't make sense. There are more than enough players out there that contribute to the overall play and still are able to play as a proper target man. Being hard working and mobile doesn't you don't know what to do with the back to goal.

 

[momo83]

Exactly what Jose said yesterday, I said the day before. Solskjær’s become that guy who just talks about what he’s going to do, while never really showing any sign of being able to do it.

 

[r0663664]

Only way Ole is to stay is the team to perform this way until January windows open. This is the minimum expectation from us in term of the performance where the team is motivated and press opponent into mistake. Move Rushford to the right, Martial in the middle, James to the right. Pogba to No. 10, MacTominay and Pereira in the central midfielder (forget about Fred, I cannot understand why he is worth 52 million pound). Have a sound back 4 and we are set for the rest of the season.

 

[InspiRED]

The sanctimonious zeal from some of the 'Ole in' posters does get quite irritating. I respect wherever you sit on the fence regarding this debate, but the hysterical manner of some of the posts; crowing about a good OGS tactical display like it's the D-day victory and using it as leverage to pile up as much shame as possible on anyone who doesn't think OGS is the right manager for Utd, is a bit much. Is the rest of the context to be ignored because of one half decent display?

As other posters have pointed out, these are the kind of tactics Roy Hodgson has been using for years, doesn't mean they're suited to a football club that is expecting to compete at an elite level.

 

[sammsky1]

Exactly what Jose said yesterday, I said the day before. Solskjær’s become that guy who just talks about what he’s going to do, while never really showing any sign of being able to do it.

many said the same about Alex Ferguson in the late 1980's ...

 

[fergosaurus]

many said the same about Alex Ferguson in the late 1980's ...

The difference is Ferguson had earned the right for patience by winning 3 league titles, 5 domestic cups, a European Cup Winner's Cup and Super Cup with Aberdeen.

 

[Mainoldo]

The difference is Ferguson had earned the right for patience by winning 3 league titles, 5 domestic cups, a European Cup Winner's Cup and Super Cup with Aberdeen.

Say it AGAIN.