Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Say it louder so the people in the back can hear.

If our scouts/management couldn’t identify replacements for Lukaku, Sanchez, Herrera, Fellaini that are better then what we currently have then they deserve the sack.


Can’t believe people are defending this s*** show.

Of course. Naturally we would all like to have Messi in each position or let's say Sancho, but you have to be realistic about your options and still find players that improve you.

If some don't work replace them with other players and move on.

Does Pep get every player right? Does Fergie or Capello or Klopp or Trap? Everyone has underwhelming buys...
 
Of course. Naturally we would all like to have Messi in each position or let's say Sancho, but you have to be realistic about your options and still find players that improve you.

If some don't work replace them with other players and move on.

Does Pep get every player right? Does Fergie or Capello or Klopp or Trap? Everyone has underwhelming buys...
Apparently we’re now in the market for not even making the signing so not knowing whether they would succeed or fail.

The more I focus on it, the more offensive OgS becomes.

He fed the fans a story about being happy with this squad but look at the squad, if he genuinely believes this squad is good enough to challenge for top4 he should be removed with immediate effect.

& if he doesn’t believe this he’s a puppet with no back bone who shouldn’t be in charge of such a big club.

I can only take the man by his word, he went into the season with this squad by design & that is unacceptable.
 
Apparently we’re now in the market for not even making the signing so not knowing whether they would succeed or fail.

The more I focus on it, the more offensive OgS becomes.

He fed the fans a story about being happy with this squad but look at the squad, if he genuinely believes this squad is good enough to challenge for top4 he should be removed with immediate effect.

& if he doesn’t believe this he’s a puppet with no back bone who shouldn’t be in charge of such a big club.

I can only take the man by his word, he went into the season with this squad by design & that is unacceptable.

Well I can't comment on his personal attributes when dealing with the board. Obviously he can't show much authority considering he is an unproven manager.

When it comes to excuses though - at least we can put that to bed now that he wasn't backed by the board.

For one reason or another he made that call along with the board to go into the season with this squad.
 
This idea that Ole is a "puppet" because he doesn't outwardly criticise his employers is absolute nonsense and it needs to stop.
 
This idea that Ole is a "puppet" because he doesn't outwardly criticise his employers is absolute nonsense and it needs to stop.


I agree with what you said ... Ole loves United and he values the club above his job and above any of the people he works for . I believe he knows what the club needs to get back near challenging . Is he the man to bring glory back to the club ? I'm not sure but I am sure will have the club in a better place by the time be departs
 
Well I can't comment on his personal attributes when dealing with the board. Obviously he can't show much authority considering he is an unproven manager.

When it comes to excuses though - at least we can put that to bed now that he wasn't backed by the board.

For one reason or another he made that call along with the board to go into the season with this squad.
Fair point, we can’t comment on his relationship with the board with any authority but going by his words, which are all we can judge him by.

He had a horrible Summer & questions over his judgement are fair.

He doesn’t need to justify himself to a bunch of forum members but he can’t grt away with bringing this squad into the season & after it’s gone south attempting to dampen expectations.

We’re focusing on a striker but there are holes all over our midfield that apparently he had funds for & he focused in on Longstaff ffs.
 
This idea that Ole is a "puppet" because he doesn't outwardly criticise his employers is absolute nonsense and it needs to stop.
The idea that for Ole to be considered a puppet it’s because he hasn’t thrown a Jose tantrum is what needs to stop.

You don’t have to criticise your employer to not be deemed a puppet.
 
My point was all top managers are usually 50-50 in their success of signing players. That doesn't mean they shouldn't sign one until that one is 100% sure to be successful.

Still doesn't mean that managers sign players just for the sake of signing someone, maybe Redknapp is the exception.

We identified a set of players that we wanted to sign, got 3 of them while we missed out on the rest, as with every top club there are plenty of agents in contact about the availability of their clients, the decision was made that none of those alternatives were what we were looking for. When Liverpool initially missed out on VVD, they didn't just jump on a random cb that was available even though they clearly needed one, it was more important to get the player they actually wanted. Same with us and Hargreaves, even though that turned out to be a disaster.

Then again, your track record is pretty fecking shit, you even argued that you preferred the signing of Sanchez over Hazard, and that we were nailed on to win the league with Sanchez, Lukaku and the addition of a dm :lol::lol:
 
Still doesn't mean that managers sign players just for the sake of signing someone, maybe Redknapp is the exception.

We identified a set of players that we wanted to sign, got 3 of them while we missed out on the rest, as with every top club there are plenty of agents in contact about the availability of their clients, the decision was made that none of those alternatives were what we were looking for. When Liverpool initially missed out on VVD, they didn't just jump on a random cb that was available even though they clearly needed one, it was more important to get the player they actually wanted. Same with us and Hargreaves, even though that turned out to be a disaster.

Then again, your track record is pretty fecking shit, you even argued that you preferred the signing of Sanchez over Hazard, and that we were nailed on to win the league with Sanchez, Lukaku and the addition of a dm :lol::lol:


I think you are missing the point. It was the 100% I was implying, not just signing players for the sake of it.

Sanchez was indeed someone I could see working for us - it didn't. Pep also thought he would be a good signing for City, maybe his track record is also fecking shit ;)

I'm not sure I've ever said we were nailed to win the league at any point tbh.
 
I can understand the reasoning behind it of course, but the point is he was part of that decision and surely you can't really pin all the negatives on the board and absolve him from all fault.

It's easy to say it's Woodward's fault (not that it's not always appropriate to do so), or the board's fault, but essentially the one that should be doing all first hand footballing decision is still the manager.

You can't say - we were waiting only for the right ones and then go moaning about lack of options due to injuries, can you?

In this case it's not unlucky it's bad planning, simple as.

Yeah that's what I wrote more or less - or what I meant at least. I have no clue where the fault lays but I think we agree on that being a stupid and somewhat inexcusable move.
 
I think you are missing the point. It was the 100% I was implying, not just signing players for the sake of it.

Sanchez was indeed someone I could see working for us - it didn't. Pep also thought he would be a good signing for City, maybe his track record is also fecking shit ;)

I'm not sure I've ever said we were nailed to win the league at any point tbh.

There's no such thing as 100%, but this is about improving the first 11 so you identify the players you want and stick to it.

Nah, unfortunately Pep has an annoyingly good track record, but i'd be surprised if he'd pick Sanchez over Hazard if given the choice.

"If we get Sanchez and a DM along with Lukaku that we already signed we'll win the title.".
 
Bebe, Dong, Tosic, Buttner, christ :lol: I'm surprised you didn't bring in fecking Manucho as well....
I remember those days. You never knew who these players were and still just assumed they would end up incredible for us. :lol:
 
I remember those days. You never knew who these players were and still just assumed they would end up incredible for us. :lol:

While the rest of us were worried about the outcome of any investigation into the signings of Bebe and Manucho, especially Bebe given his suddent change of agents prior to being a surprise signing.
 
While the rest of us were worried about the outcome of any investigation into the signings of Bebe and Manucho, especially Bebe given his suddent change of agents prior to being a surprise signing.
Ignorance is still bliss mate;)
 
We will go through this pain with you Ole. But the fans need to see that you have a good plan and that the players are willing to listen and execute it.
 
That is not how it works though is it? Long term future also depends on short term success. Missing out CL, finishing mid table - have direct effect on us trying to get those who are good enough.

Leaving your squad barebones is not something an experienced manager would do - hence he has so much flack - leaving the team vulnerable to injuries, fatigue and also short in certain areas.

Setting up for a long campaign, knowing your team is not good enough on the basis that next year better players will be available is pretty naive if you ask me.

He’s trying to take the Klopp/Liverpool approach. But fails to realise that to get the player you want in 6 months or 1 year time your team has to remain competitive.
 
Yeah that's what I wrote more or less - or what I meant at least. I have no clue where the fault lays but I think we agree on that being a stupid and somewhat inexcusable move.
Yeah indeed. Just for the record it’s not always the manager 100% for me either. No one should be the sole responsible of how the club is ran on the footballing side.
There's no such thing as 100%, but this is about improving the first 11 so you identify the players you want and stick to it.

Nah, unfortunately Pep has an annoyingly good track record, but i'd be surprised if he'd pick Sanchez over Hazard if given the choice.

"If we get Sanchez and a DM along with Lukaku that we already signed we'll win the title.".
With Sanchez you could see his grit and determination, whilst also having the cutting edge.

To me he looked awesome at Arsenal at his heyday and thought we were getting another van Persie that can fire us forward.

Why he walloped to such a miserable self is beyond me.

On the “bright side” we didn’t get a DM so... :D:lol:
 
Again, it's like there is no forward in the world available who can improve us is a really daft way of looking at it. If you listen to all the excuses Ole is getting the squad is shite, so surely that means it's easy to upgrade?

We've made bigger name signings when we had Mourinho as a manager, not Ole.

During the season we finished 4th under LvG we didn't have the same short squad.

Absolutely this.
 
I think many of us (I'll hold my hand up on this one despite advocating against it in the past) placed far too much reliance on results as opposed to true progress. Ole had a terrific run of results but these things can be extremely temporary and both fans and the ownership (they should be the bloody experts), should have seen the sense in focusing on the metrics behind those results. And really while that run was exciting, a lot of it was built around counter attacking, and sometimes really plucky and jammy, football. That we started playing the football we all wanted to see (Cardiff) and moved towards football we did not, was a sign. But while injuries were used as an excuse for the same, it should have been a sign to wait and watch.

But what can you do. I hope it's a lesson from hereon to focus on genuine progress and the underlying metrics indicating that instead of emotion/passion/gets the club/winning record/stature and all that jazz.
Yeah I got carried away with the start as well. But I did always feel it showed closer to the full potential of this group of they played to their strengths and with the freedom they wanted.

Then yes, the injuries and then summer of running to get the fitness up and then injuries again. My hope is we'll see the freedom again, but it's been such a poor setup. I'm with you - I don't need the results right now. But we see such a dear lack of coaching. I think the first sign of it was that FA Cup win we scraped against Reading was it?
 
Say it louder so the people in the back can hear.

If our scouts/management couldn’t identify replacements for Lukaku, Sanchez, Herrera, Fellaini that are better then what we currently have then they deserve the sack.

Can’t believe people are defending this s*** show.
Couldn't agree more. It was clear those were going to be the first names gone as far back as May or April even. And you will recall Ole talking about planning for next season, looking at new players as if he were going to be manager. Then he gets the appointment and a full summer + advance time to decide who to replace with. I'd be sympathetic if he didn't have an interim period to see what the squad was like. Him or the coaching staff.
 
It's obvious that he messed it up. The moment he let go off Fellaini he should have realised that he needs midfield players. Not just one but at least a couple.
When he started to bench Lukaku he should have realised he needed at least one striker.
I will still say that if he had bought two quality midfield players and one quality striker we could have got away without signing a CB the last window.
 
On lack of composure and pressure on players
Ole - My Job is to lead them, guide them and telling them that we trust them. They are here because they are good players and we trust them and protect them from you lot, because its my decision, it's my responsibility. At any football club the state of the phase they are always manager's responsibility.

On Lukaku leaving.
Ole - He didn't want to be here, what's the point having players here that dont want to be here and it's no point getting players in that you are not 100% sure about. When you get the players in you want the right ones that's gonna stay here for longer period. That's the long term thinking that we have to show. I can't think I need a player because this is my reputation, No it's the club. There were strikers but they weren't the ones we wanted and we couldn't get the one we wanted.

2 bits from his interview, 1 is taking responsibility instead of blaming everyone else and the second part (the bold one) says everything about him. It's always the club. We made mistake not signing the player but any replacement will do is sort of thinking that landed us in the mess.

Looks like they are following the words of very good sporting director.
Ralf Rangnick: "At any club, if you cannot get the right players, then you should at least not sign the wrong ones. You are in trouble if you do that in one or two or three consecutive transfer windows"

Before anyone gets triggered, no I'm not saying Solskjaer is good enough coach.
 
It's obvious that he messed it up. The moment he let go off Fellaini he should have realised that he needs midfield players. Not just one but at least a couple.
When he started to bench Lukaku he should have realised he needed at least one striker.
I will still say that if he had bought two quality midfield players and one quality striker we could have got away without signing a CB the last window.

He did realise it. He tried to sign midfielders and strikers but couldn't get the right ones. I was probably one of the most vocal people on the forum this summer about the need to sign 2 midfielders. I felt even with everybody fit we didn't have enough. One injury to McTomminay or Pogba was going to destroy us. Losing both Martial and Pogba was a disaster because that meant both midfield and attack was badly damaged with really poor replacements.

But if the right signings weren't available I can live with it because we can't afford to do this again:

Schneiderlin, Scweinsteigger, Fellaini, Rojo, Mata, Darmian, Bailly, Depay, ADM, Falcao, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Sanchez Lukaku.

If we are going to get back where we want to be it will be through careful well vetted signings at senior and youth level. No more panic signings or commercially driven ones. If it takes 12 or 18 months to get the squad where it needs to be that's fine by me. I've supported the club for around 30 years. I can handle a difficult season or two. As bad as things look right now we actually have a decent crop of young footballers. We just have a few more holes to fill and a few more of the older ones to shift. We just need to be for a little bit longer until Ole's had enough time and investment to do it.
 
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It's obvious that he messed it up. The moment he let go off Fellaini he should have realised that he needs midfield players. Not just one but at least a couple.
When he started to bench Lukaku he should have realised he needed at least one striker.
I will still say that if he had bought two quality midfield players and one quality striker we could have got away without signing a CB the last window.

We arent where we used to be -- being able to just go out an buy any player we wish. Clubs in the league have a lot more money nowadays. Plus we just dont have the pulling power we used to have under one particular manager. Who would want to come to a club that could change its manager in 24-36 months? Or even 10?
... Unless we pay or overpay like hell ... which we have done in the past.

Thats got to stop.
 
We arent where we used to be -- being able to just go out an buy any player we wish. Clubs in the league have a lot more money nowadays. Plus we just dont have the pulling power we used to have under one particular manager. Who would want to come to a club that could change its manager in 24-36 months? Or even 10?
... Unless we pay or overpay like hell ... which we have done in the past.

Thats got to stop.

Changing managers have not stopped playing going to clubs. Look at Real too.
It's the quality of the manager that's important. I am really disappointed with Jose. He was a top class manager and he should be able to get a bit more out of these players. I think some players let him down too.
 
Changing managers have not stopped playing going to clubs. Look at Real too.
It's the quality of the manager that's important. I am really disappointed with Jose. He was a top class manager and he should be able to get a bit more out of these players. I think some players let him down too.

Real and Barca are bad examples. They are so loaded with players -- any decent manager can get a tune out of them in a league where they dominate or have very little threat to their dominance. So in that sense, hiring managers for Barca or Real are much lower risks too. In the EPL, and as competitive as it is, a bad hire and a top six or eight club will fall off that group.
 
Anyone thinking United won't be able to attract great talent have lost the plot in my opinion. Have you guys seen our tour - or previous ones? Even if we're not currently in the CL - joining United will elevate you into a superstar (for better or worse all dependent). There's not a corner of this world where we're not capable of selling out entire stadiums full of our own supporters - even though they're just rehearsals. And even if that wasn't the case - money money money money. So much money - more than anyone - enough so that overpaying isn't an issue. We are still the biggest football club on the face of this planet as far as popularity and finances are concerned - and not some fragile weakling in risk of oblivion any time soon. And the fact that we're down on our luck these days might actually help us attract the right kind of players too - the kind who's keen to make an impact and create a name for themselves. Because whomever helps us back up where we belong - will become legend.

Nah I wouldn't worry about recruitment any time soon. That's not a problem - no need to act all desperate in that department. Personally though - I think us not getting at least one midfielder and a proper striker during our last window was a big miscalculation - I don't agree with the notion that the risk of someone flopping should outweigh the risk of suddenly finding ourselves stripped of quality (like we are at present) - but even though I fear these decisions will sabotage our chances for a successful campaign and that this transition would have been less painful if we'd dared chancing it a little this summer - I can respect the reasoning behind it and I hope I'm proven wrong.

Also I'm thrilled we are finally planning long term - and seeing our young ones testing themselves on the big scene is something I'm very excited about - even if that might tamper our short-term ambitions I believe it will prove a worthwhile investment.
 
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Yeah indeed. Just for the record it’s not always the manager 100% for me either. No one should be the sole responsible of how the club is ran on the footballing side.

With Sanchez you could see his grit and determination, whilst also having the cutting edge.

To me he looked awesome at Arsenal at his heyday and thought we were getting another van Persie that can fire us forward.

Why he walloped to such a miserable self is beyond me.

On the “bright side” we didn’t get a DM so... :D:lol:

We signed Matic.

Anyway, you're generally wrong but always adamant, it's an interesting combination.

It's weird that so many struggle to see the larger picture here
 
Real and Barca are bad examples. They are so loaded with players -- any decent manager can get a tune out of them in a league where they dominate or have very little threat to their dominance. So in that sense, hiring managers for Barca or Real are much lower risks too. In the EPL, and as competitive as it is, a bad hire and a top six or eight club will fall off that group.

The point is United has the funds to afford to get those kind of players. It's not that we are skint. We can get top class managers too. If we have top class managers top class players will come.
 
Anyone thinking United won't be able to attract great talent have lost the plot in my opinion. Have you guys seen our tour - or previous ones? Even if we're not currently in the CL - joining United will elevate you into a superstar (for better or worse all dependent). There's not a corner of this world where we're not capable of selling out entire stadiums full of our own supporters - even though they're just rehearsals. And even if that wasn't the case - money money money money. So much money - more than anyone - enough so that overpaying isn't an issue. We are still the biggest football club on the face of this planet as far as popularity and finances are concerned - and not some fragile weakling in risk of oblivion any time soon. And the fact that we're down on our luck these days might actually help us attract the right kind of players too - the kind who's keen to make an impact and create a name for themselves. Because whomever helps us back up where we belong - will become legend.

Nah I wouldn't worry about recruitment any time soon. That's not a problem - no need to act all desperate in that department. Personally though - I think us not getting at least one midfielder and a proper striker during our last window was a big miscalculation - I don't agree with the notion that the risk of someone flopping should outweigh the risk of suddenly finding ourselves stripped of quality (like we are at present) - but even though I fear these decisions will sabotage our chances for a successful campaign and that this transition would have been less painful if we'd dared chancing it a little this summer - I can respect the reasoning behind it and I hope I'm proven wrong.

Also I'm thrilled we are finally planning long term - and seeing our young ones testing themselves on the big scene is something I'm very excited about - even if that might tamper our short-term ambitions I believe it will prove a worthwhile investment.

Funnily enough sold out tours in Thailand aren't the top of the list when players are deciding where to play, its winning trophies, and money, we got a shed load of that, but if its to finish mid table players will go to other rich clubs who have more of hope of being successful on the pitch and not just economically.

We already saw in the summer the damage that has been done to our reputation, and if we continue getting worse we will 100% suffer because of it, you can be in denial all you want.
 
Someone should ask why he kept Paul Pogba when the player doesn't want to be here. His interview has always been full of lies and non-sense positivity. Wasn’t long ago David Moyes got absolutely hammered for saying we should be trying to get to the standard of Man City. Now this guy is putting us in the same category as Leicester & Arsenal and somehow receive no hate here for it.
 
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I keep hearing he has an eye for talent.
Ok I should go one step further then and say he seems to have an eye for temperament and what fits the club. With a club the size of United of course we have vast dossiers on most players out there and its unlikely Ole will pluck a name out of the air that no one has heard of and who turns out to be world class. But each previous manager had the same dossiers and still managed to sign all that deadwood that we're now trying to move on. Champions League winning managers (and Moyes) who thought Schweinsteiger or Sanchez were the right signings to bring United forward.

This is what you need from a DOF, someone to buy with a plan in mind, thinking longer term than the end of the season or saving his job. If Ole was sacked in the morning we'd still have 3 players who are going to be here for the next 5-10 years and we've gotten rid of half the mercenaries we should have. There's still work to do of course but I believe his overall plan will work (at least from a recruitment perspective).
 
Funnily enough sold out tours in Thailand aren't the top of the list when players are deciding where to play,

Never claimed it was - I merely stated that we're still a supernova as far as popularity is concerned and that this in itself makes us attractive. But hey free feel to argue points never made while ignoring the real plot entirely - whatever makes you happy.

its winning trophies, and money, we got a shed load of that, but if its to finish mid table players will go to other rich clubs who have more of hope of being successful on the pitch and not just economically.

The prospect of instant success is of course enticing to many a player no doubt - but it's quite the leap into absurdity claiming this to be universal. There are almost as many motivators as there are people in this world.

We already saw in the summer the damage that has been done to our reputation, and if we continue getting worse we will 100% suffer because of it, you can be in denial all you want.

As to what we saw this summer? We snatched two of the best defenders this league has to offer - both from teams who've had better openings to this season than us - plus Dybala was willing to join us from Juventus as well if we'd just been willing to throw enough money his way. I'm pretty sure we could easilly have attracted a few more signings too if we'd just made more of an effort identifying potential prospects prior to and during the window - all of equal standard to the ones we got and from top sides as well. So yes I'm clearly in denial - we're really suffering immensly from our ruined reputation - it's our broken honor that's the problem for sure I see it so clearly now. I was too focused on the actual pudding - I should have looked inside your skull instead as that's where the proof lays hidden :lol:
 
Given our huge scouting network it’s pretty impossible to believe that there isn’t one midfielder and attacker that could have been recruited to improve what we have.

We’re starting to get a lot of excuses but it’s clear that the club lacks ambition and is still incompetent in the transfer market. Papers linking us to Sancho again and concern is we are probably stupid enough to think we can get him. Our transfers for next season can’t hinge on likes of Maddison and Sancho because it will be difficult to get one let alone both.
 
Anyone thinking United won't be able to attract great talent have lost the plot in my opinion. Have you guys seen our tour - or previous ones? Even if we're not currently in the CL - joining United will elevate you into a superstar (for better or worse all dependent). There's not a corner of this world where we're not capable of selling out entire stadiums full of our own supporters - even though they're just rehearsals. And even if that wasn't the case - money money money money. So much money - more than anyone - enough so that overpaying isn't an issue. We are still the biggest football club on the face of this planet as far as popularity and finances are concerned - and not some fragile weakling in risk of oblivion any time soon. And the fact that we're down on our luck these days might actually help us attract the right kind of players too - the kind who's keen to make an impact and create a name for themselves. Because whomever helps us back up where we belong - will become legend.

Nah I wouldn't worry about recruitment any time soon. That's not a problem - no need to act all desperate in that department. Personally though - I think us not getting at least one midfielder and a proper striker during our last window was a big miscalculation - I don't agree with the notion that the risk of someone flopping should outweigh the risk of suddenly finding ourselves stripped of quality (like we are at present) - but even though I fear these decisions will sabotage our chances for a successful campaign and that this transition would have been less painful if we'd dared chancing it a little this summer - I can respect the reasoning behind it and I hope I'm proven wrong.

Also I'm thrilled we are finally planning long term - and seeing our young ones testing themselves on the big scene is something I'm very excited about - even if that might tamper our short-term ambitions I believe it will prove a worthwhile investment.
For now - maybe but if we continue being shit for another 5 years and it looks like we will, it will change very quickly. New generation of players will dream of playing for City instead, not 6th best team.

I don’t agree that “We are still the biggest football club on the face of this planet as far as popularity and finances are concerned”. At least 2 Spanish teams have more fans than us, and our finances are not improving much in the past few years, at least not at the rate of some other teams. It’s about time we actually become good at football because being a laughing stock for years doesn’t help at all in these areas.

We always seem to be planning long term and it’s just holding us back. You cant plan long term with clearly wrong type of managers. If Ole is seriously in our long term rebuilding plan, God help us. Most successful teams in the past 20 years have been the ones who change managers every 2-3 years. All managers at every club must do with the squad they have except our fans, the only ones in the world have some weird thinking that we can’t judge the manager until he buys his 20 players. Madness. All of that just to shield clearly failing managers from any sort of blame.
 
Ok I should go one step further then and say he seems to have an eye for temperament and what fits the club. With a club the size of United of course we have vast dossiers on most players out there and its unlikely Ole will pluck a name out of the air that no one has heard of and who turns out to be world class. But each previous manager had the same dossiers and still managed to sign all that deadwood that we're now trying to move on. Champions League winning managers (and Moyes) who thought Schweinsteiger or Sanchez were the right signings to bring United forward.

This is what you need from a DOF, someone to buy with a plan in mind, thinking longer term than the end of the season or saving his job. If Ole was sacked in the morning we'd still have 3 players who are going to be here for the next 5-10 years and we've gotten rid of half the mercenaries we should have. There's still work to do of course but I believe his overall plan will work (at least from a recruitment perspective).

Good. We all hope so.
 
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